Thinking About Bailing On Marriage

Money & Muscle

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What issues do you think she has with you?
She doesn't like that I'm now running the relationship and household. I was the beta bux husband for our entire marriage and now she's not thrilled with the idea of having to work to keep me around.

I can't blame her for not liking the new dynamic as she's been left in charge (begrudgingly) but I am no longer being the backseat rider.

In Red Pill terms, I was the drunk captain and now I've pushed the first mate back into her position. I think her covert feminist brainwashing has her thinking she should be at the helm with me, and I'm not having it. This isn't an equal partnership.
 

Money & Muscle

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I also notice your frustration by referring your wife as ‘This b*tch’
I don't find my wife to be a "b*tch" by any means, but I'm using the term for all women as it's become apparent I've put them on a pedestal for too long.

I need to unplug a little harder and really view women for what they are, and they are not our equals. Hence calling them "b*tches" as a method to devalue them.

What is different this time around if you choose to stay with her?
As in, "what must be different for me to stay?"
She needs to keep up with her looks. I don't need her to be a model, but it doesn't take 7 years to lose 30lbs of baby weight.
*~15lbs weight loss.
*Keeping up with looks (because she wants to make herself pretty for me).
*Sexual enthusiasm.
*Putting in effort to keep me (relationship is the woman's responsibility, she needs to take ownership of this).
 

Pierce Manhammer

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This is exactly what occurred to me, I decided in my 30’s I wasn’t going to go quietly into the night. I started lifting hardcore to redirect my energy, started a very successful business, better style, better haircuts. Started insisting on regular sex.

Mine was super intelligent, in senior tech management and had always run our relationship. Initially she reacted positively when she figured out I was not going to change. She even started working out until she got frustrated because she’s a quitter type. She went on HRT, her levels were low, that briefly made her more agreeable and wanted sex more.

She then abruptly stopped, stating that she was doing it all for me and it was BS. I just kept going, years because of the kids. Then I filed one day when I just could no longer handle it.

Your story in my story are pretty much a common one, the issue is most men aren’t talking about it because we’re supposed to be strong and stoic.

I had a friend, same situation in his marriage, and he got busted severely. He lost it all. And his wife sounded like a perfect wife to me, except for the fact that she didn’t act enthusiastic about sex often. I tried to counsel him and tell him that he needed to leave before he did anything and he didn’t listen. He did pretty much what you’re planning on doing, which is game women and the temptation was too high. And he got busted.


She doesn't like that I'm now running the relationship and household. I was the beta bux husband for our entire marriage and now she's not thrilled with the idea of having to work to keep me around.

I can't blame her for not liking the new dynamic as she's been left in charge (begrudgingly) but I am no longer being the backseat rider.

In Red Pill terms, I was the drunk captain and now I've pushed the first mate back into her position. I think her covert feminist brainwashing has her thinking she should be at the helm with me, and I'm not having it. This isn't an equal partnership.
 

Money & Muscle

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This is exactly what occurred to me, I decided in my 30’s I wasn’t going to go quietly into the night. I started lifting hardcore to redirect my energy, started a very successful business, better style, better haircuts. Started insisting on regular sex.

Mine was super intelligent, in senior tech management and had always run our relationship. Initially she reacted positively when she figured out I was not going to change. She even started working out until she got frustrated because she’s a quitter type. She went on HRT, her levels were low, that briefly made her more agreeable and wanted sex more.

She then abruptly stopped saying that she was doing it all for me and it was BS. I just kept going, years because of the kids. Then I filed one day when I just could no longer handle it.

Your story in my story are pretty much a common one, the issue is most men aren’t talking about it Because we’re supposed to be strong and stoic.
In hindsight, do you think there was anything that could be done to save the relationship and allow you to still be fulfilled/happy with the marriage? or was this always a lost cause?
 

Pierce Manhammer

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In hindsight, do you think there was anything that could be done to save the relationship and allow you to still be fulfilled/happy with the marriage?
I tried to fix things for 5-6 years, I tried it all, literally all. I’d gone RP in 2012, and get gaming my own faking wife. Nothing worked. And nothing would give me what I wanted from her. She became less attractive and meaner and I became more an more ZFG.

I had also found out about a sever structural issue I was not aware of which I will keep to myself. I threw in the towel after this. Got separated and moved out and never looked back. I didn’t leave her for someone else, I left her because of principle, because I knew I’d never be happy with her and she let herself go.

If you leave do not do it for poonany, do it to preserve your gonads. Be a man of principle remember righteous indignation is a sweet sweet thing, few things in life are better than to know you did everything in your power to move your relationship to a good place. It’s her choice to meet you in the middle, but she needs to know you mean business.

I wish you all the luck with this.
 

BillyPilgrim

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OP I noticed you said your wife is 34. Might be worth noting that all of Tom Cruise's 3 wives (Nicole Kidman, Mimi Rogers and Katie Holmes) all divorced him when they were 33. It's a pretty restless and contentious age for them.

This article isn't directly related, but some insight may be gleaned:



Age 33-38

This category is called “I’m a Lady Now.”

Age 33 is when everything changes for a woman. It represents a magical line they cross, and all of a sudden, their attitudes about dating, men, and sex completely change.

*****

In your case, anything that may have been wearing on her was compounded by the significant change in your personality.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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Youre right on not leaving, but if she files for restraint she will get it, so better advice would be to seek it first
Yes, but her filing restraint is them making you leave, not you leaving willingly. You don't give up rights if you have a restraint filed against you. You give up rights if you leave willingly.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

Listen @Money & Muscle I *get* that much of my advice in your thread from back in November you didn't really appreciate. That's OK. Right now you have a terrible case of "Grass Must be Greener" syndrome. That and you think your shji doesn't stink. Well it does, trust me.

If memory serves you got married to a girl that showed you attention when you were young and "Blue Pilled", the first gal willing to give you regular sex, so you wifed her up.

That is a position that comes from LACK. Your wife is not an idiot. She knows you were in a position of lack, and that you probably have been the entire time.

You say that the arguing is constant. I agree that is SUPER annoying. But what are you doing (be very very honest here, find a mirror) that is contributing to the arguements? What are y'all fighting about exactly. You say stupid stuff. Exactly what stupid stuff?

These things matter. At times my husband thinks I am terribly disagreeable. Not really, I'm just consistent and he doesn't like that. I am in peri-menopause. I get hot flashes at night. He would have the heat set on 75 degrees at night if he got his way. I am sweating to death at 71 degrees. I can only get so naked without covers, but he can always put on more PJs or add a blanket on his side of the bed.

But he thinks that *his* preference should come first, because he is "The Man". So the whole thing is very stupid. Add to that he really should be on T replacement (his levels are falling as he nears 50), and this would frankly raise his basal metabolism and probably solve the whole problem as his body would then create more heat, but T therapy has a monetary cost associated with it, and he doesn't want to pay that cost. Instead he thinks *I* need to be on HRT. Nevermind that I am 55, still have a regular cycle (so the doctors do not think HRT is appropriate for me), I have a high libido, good muscle mass, etc.

Rather than understand that I cannot cool my body during this life phase, he picks fights about it. He refuses to accomodate my biology. I can't help my biology anymore than you can help morning wood. It just happens ya know? He is finally learning that "thermostat wars" do not serve him.

He has a similarly immature attitude (like OP) about a number of things. Now. My husband does NOT financially support me, (we both pay for our own obligations), but at times he thinks he is going to tell me how to run various things (like how to parent children that are NOT his - Uh, Nope) or how to handle my real estate investments (Uh - Nope) and then he gets but hurt when I shut that down.

This from a man who is a childless man who has never owned a single piece of real estate. I'm not about to defer to him on those things, he has ZERO idea what he is talking about (and my investments do well, and I have extraordinarily well behaved, well adjusted children, by the way, so it's not as though there is a problem.)

His issues stem from self esteem issues, social anxiety, and feeling he is "less than" in some way. From a place of LACK. Now. He has had plenty of sexual encounters over his life until 47 as a bachelor. He found that lifestyle empty. The advantage that my husband has over the OP is that he's been there, done that, got the T-shirt. He got tired of shallow demanding women who expected to be worshipped and catered to, learned that looks are NOT everything, and started seeking a woman with more to offer. In me he got a 5'6", 125lb natural blond bombshell with brains, patience, emotional stability, self esteem, self sufficiency, and I also happen to be sexy and fun. And I look great in a bikini. Got laid this morning in fact. I cook for him regularly, allow him his alone time, and try to be generally agreeable.

But over the weekend he got mad because the place we went for lunch was in the middle of an unexpected street fair. Crowded AF, and no parking to be had. This caused him extreme stress and he starts screaming at me about it. Um. Not my fault. I didn't schedule a street fair or take all the parking. I'm not going to be yelled at period, but certainly not over things that have nothing to do with me. Melt down much? So I do not tolerate that, and of course he takes my refusal to tolerate unreasonableness as "fighting" with him.

Immaturity 101. Selfishness 101. Thinking only of yourself 101.

And that's similar to what I see here in OP. He's on the juice, which is known to cause "roid rage", and has an over-inflated entitlement attitude. She's 34. Even if she's 30 lbs heavy with baby weight, height/weight proportion matter. If she went from 110lbs to 140lbs on a 5'5" frame (for example), then her BMI remains appropriate at 23.3, in the healthy range. In other words, in if she is like my example, she's height weight proportionate (not overweight/obese) and she will have more options out in the wild than OP will be able to wrap his head around.

Meanwhile he's making an OK living for CA at 150K, but he's not rich, he's not getting rich on that (I know, I supported a family of 5 on my income alone for 10 years), but I made more than him, lived in a less expensive part of the US, had self employed tax advantages, and was comfortable and affluent, built my net worth to 7 figures while doing that, but did without new cars, did without fancy vacations, did without 5K handbags, etc. I played the long game.

More next post...
 

BeExcellent

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So to continue, OP is highly, and I mean HIGHLY likely to find himself a different variety of frustrated if he bails on the marriage. He will still have an over-inflated sense of what he deserves, only he will be competing against rich good looking men who have a lot more income and status than he does for a more scarce commodity. He will see at least 50% less of his own daughter, and will end up dealing with another man's offspring. And to add insult to injury, his own daughter will feel sorry for Mom, see her as a martyr, and think OP is the ass hole. That will be just fantastic for his relationship with his own daughter (not.)

Women will use him and toss him, there will be little stability, little emotional closeness, little loyalty and the women who are the beautiful ones will be generally shallow and demanding.

Meanwhile his ex-wife will find a man who is similar or better guy who is likely to see the qualities in her that OP is discounting, and swoop her up. My ex- husband wishes he had be back in the worst way. He's never going to find another woman like me. Never. This happens more than OP is going to appreciate if he actually pulls the trigger.

OP, serious question. Have you considered a therapist? Couples therapy? You seem to be angry that you never got to experience variety, but here's the thing: That's on you bro. That's not your wife's fault.

So you are going to have to grow the F up man. You are like the bored housewife men around here complain about, not realizing how great you really have it. She's attractive, she's sexy, she has dressed up, role played, etc. There is no pleasing YOU because you have decided SHE is the problem.

She is not the problem. YOU are.

My son is about to get married at 21. He is already RP. He had a gf before his fiance. He doesn't feel the need to "play the field" he does not come from a place of LACK. He knows he could get other girls (he's sharp, ambitious, good looking - going to be a military officer soon), and his friends already come to him for advice complaining about women asking how do they find a loyal girl like he has.

Look TF in the mirror. Find a strong male role model. The guys are essentially telling you the same thing I am telling you. I'm just a whole lots more unvarnished. You are a married man with a daughter. Life no longer revolves around just you and your own self interest. You can be a great husband, great father and great man in your current sitaution. It is your sense of LACK that will be your own undoing.

That is not going to suddenly change if you get a divorce because you will not have changed. That is what you fail to see.

I wish you the best and want to see you happy, I really do. Happiness is an inside job. Remember that.
 

BeExcellent

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My final thought is this: I tell my husband this when he gets in drama mode....

My behavior is a direct reflection of the way you treat me. If you treat me well we are going to get along beautifully. If you are an ass hole, be prepared for me to be a b*tch because I don't need to kiss up to an ass hole.

Food for thought.
 

SW15

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he's making an OK living for CA at 150K,
$150K in a bigger metro in California is like $85,000 - $105,000 in Dallas. A guy making $85,000 - $105,000 in Dallas isn't regarded as anything special though that would be a solid salary. I agree with your assessment about his income level in relation to SMV. Muscle + $150K isn't that bad of a combination in California.

his ex-wife will find a man who is similar or better guy who is likely to see the qualities in her that OP is discounting, and swoop her up. My ex- husband wishes he had be back in the worst way. He's never going to find another woman like me. Never. This happens more than OP is going to appreciate if he actually pulls the trigger.
She would be a single mom though. A good portion of men are unwilling to commit to a single mom. I am one of those men who avoids single moms.

There are enough men out there who would commit to a single mom though. That's a bad fit for a childless man but the single dad-single mom combination seems to happen.

It would be interesting to see how well @Money & Muscle would do on the open market. I like to see marriages with children work out well and the two parent household to remain in place. My parents did not have a good marriage and had an overall unhealthy relationship dynamic. They divorced. I would have liked to have had 2 stable parents.
 

BeExcellent

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How does one do this when a wife takes a husband for granted and thinks he has no other options for sex?

Just stomp around and put my foot down?
I firmly believe the next step is for me to increase the Dread levels.
You seduce her. Now if you have no idea what that is, well I'd offer that this is in fact part of the problem. Read the Art of Seduction as an intro. You connect to her emotionally, you seduce her mind and her body will follow effortlessly. In what I read you are all about yourself. Selfishness is an enormous turn off. Ask any successful seducer on this board. I KNOW how to seduce a man. Connect. Men are terribly starved for connection and it's sexual expression.

@SW15 lots would depend on her SMV. If her SMV is high (relative to the competition) she'd do fine on the open market. Plenty of women remain physically attractive in the mid 30s. Our OP has contempt that seems to arise out of familiarity, and that begets the boredom, but the other thing nobody has said in this thread is that bored people are generally themselves boring people.

A younger, childless man with a high objective SMV picked me, single mom, 3 children and all, to marry. But my SMV is very high; higher in fact than many women much younger than I. So things are relative and SMV matters.
 

SW15

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@SW15 lots would depend on her SMV. If her SMV is high (relative to the competition) she'd do fine on the open market. Plenty of women remain physically attractive in the mid 30s. Our OP has contempt that seems to arise out of familiarity, and that begets the boredom, but the other thing nobody has said in this thread is that bored people are generally themselves boring people.
Agree that plenty of women are physically attractive in their mid-30s. Some of them have been in my bedroom.
 

Money & Muscle

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When did you start discovering Red Pill?

There is a phase on that road that can make you ‘bitter’ for a lack of a better term
About 9 months ago but I'm well past the anger phase.
 

Money & Muscle

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I don't expect a woman who is the literal embodiment of "the exception to the rule" to understand where I'm coming from.

I've spent a lot of time unpacking my sh*t, but some of this just cannot be unpacked without certain actions.



Right now, I need to game other women. I don't mean Sleep with them, i mean that I literally just need to game them. I need to overcome my own inner beliefs that are holding me back.
 

Pierce Manhammer

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Man, that’s a slippery slope. You’re playing out the scenario many have before you.

Here’s my prediction if you head down that road:

1. you will get caught
2. she most likely will divorce you
3. She’ll get the house and 50% custody if you fight, otherwise she’ll get 100%
4. She doesn’t work so guess what? Alimony.
5. She’ll get herself into shape, based on your description it won’t take much
6. She will be living fine, single with kid(s)
7. She will venture out on the market and do just fine, men that make well more than you driving Maseratis and Teslas will wine and dine her. She’ll be in big heaven. Remember the man:woman ratio here is 135:100!
8. You’ll discover the harsh reality a middle income man, even an in shape, relatively attractive man faces in Northern California.
9. Initially you’ll be like “damn this is good, I get to bang bishes!”
10. Then you’ll have to face the reality of what has happened: it’s brutal out there.

I don't expect a woman who is the literal embodiment of "the exception to the rule" to understand where I'm coming from.

I've spent a lot of time unpacking my sh*t, but some of this just cannot be unpacked without certain actions.



Right now, I need to game other women. I don't mean Sleep with them, i mean that I literally just need to game them. I need to overcome my own inner beliefs that are holding me back.
 
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BeExcellent

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I don't expect a woman who is the literal embodiment of "the exception to the rule" to understand where I'm coming from.

I've spent a lot of time unpacking my sh*t, but some of this just cannot be unpacked without certain actions.



Right now, I need to game other women. I don't mean Sleep with them, i mean that I literally just need to game them. I need to overcome my own inner beliefs that are holding me back.
Thats fair. You want and need to reprogram your beliefs about yourself. You need to validate yourself externally; practice interactions.

In so doing the idea is that in time you'll transition to internal validation. Once you are coming from a place of internal validation your whole world will change because the way you see yourself has changed.

Believe it or not many years ago the old lady had to go through that process. Not easy but worth it.
 

The Duke

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I don't expect a woman who is the literal embodiment of "the exception to the rule" to understand where I'm coming from.

I've spent a lot of time unpacking my sh*t, but some of this just cannot be unpacked without certain actions.

Right now, I need to game other women. I don't mean Sleep with them, i mean that I literally just need to game them. I need to overcome my own inner beliefs that are holding me back.
Let's say you game other women out in public. You swap numbers with some random wh0re, she starts texting/calling. Then what? Is that going to convince your ego that you are capable and valuable? Or whatever you think you are missing internally? How far do you need to go? I don't think you will solve anything from this. We are all men here, we all know it doesn't count unless you stick your **** in them.

The girls you will attract will come onto you because of your looks. You lack experience for them to be attracted to much else. Is that going to overcome your inner beliefs? How so?

I think @BeExcellent said it and a few others, it's the emotional seduction part I don't think your wife is getting from you. Money and muscles might be important to you, but I would bet you a million dollars she would rather be seduced thru an emotional connection than anything physical.
 

The Duke

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I just don't feel connected to my wife anymore. Either she isn't putting in the effort to make me stay, or the max effort she can produce is not enough to keep me. I'm tired of carrying the weight of the relationship. I'm tired of being the one who works, lifts, goes to school, lifts, initiates sex, de-escalates arguments...

So far as I know, my wife has never cheated on me. She keeps up with her looks, though (nowhere near as much as I do for my own looks).

I have a hard time being the pretty one and the only money maker (which I do pretty well at ~$150k/yr).
I guess I'd be okay with being the better looking one, and the one who makes the money if my wife's effort made up for the difference, but that just isn't happening.

Last night was the first sexual rejection I've had from her in some time. I don't get "no's", but occasionally I'll get resistance. I think I'm more irritated by how the rejection went down than the rejection itself. I'd rather just get a "no" than some trickle truth bullsh*t about her not wanting to do anything with me.

You know what I rarely get? Enthusiasm. Sure, sex is great to have, but I'm f*cking tired of getting the bare minimal amount of work she can get away with. Tired of having to initiate with a b*tch whose laying down in bed under the covers the second our daughter gets put to bed. Nothing sexier than initiating with a woman whose trying her d*mndest to rush off to bed everyday of the week (eyeroll).

Duty sex is irritating and unsexy and this is the only kind of sex I've gotten for almost 2 months. At first I didn't care because dont care; got laid, but at what point to I get to have sex with a woman who actually wants to have sex with me? F*ck.

I'm done turning a blind eye to IOIs I keep getting. I'm done with turning down numbers girls are giving me. I'm done with not pursuing other sex avenues. I worked too f*cking hard to get to where I am, just to have a sexually apathetic wife.

Men who initiated divorces, what was the last straw for you? Do you regret it?
Please tell her how you feel. Have that conversation. There will be pain but it might open some doors that improve things. At least you can say you tried.
 
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