Problems with disrespect from wife

[Franky Four Fingers]

I think what this ultimatum thing boils down to is context.

I guess what I was trying to say is if she's doing something wrong (eg - cheating etc) and you give the "or else", I (nor she) will believe it's an attempt at control and of weakness. She knows she's doing something wrong and you won't tolerate that wrong behavior. An unintentional (no 'chest beating' but to plainly stop bad behavior) position of strength.

If she is doing something normal (eg - girls night out w/no cheating etc) and you don't agree with it and you give an ultimatum THEN that is a position of weakness. That's how I see it anyway.

I personally will never give an 'or else' unless she is clearly doing something wrong/bad behavior/cheating etc. I will however definitely do them when necessary but they are few and far between depending on the woman's behavior of course.

 

[heroshima]

Backing off of the ultimatum was my choice to give her room to make the decision for herself. My stance now is that I am not attempting to control her. When necessary I have simply been stating my position and acting as though she can come along for the ride with me if she wants.

Oh, and I found something that is helping me sleep - Valerian Root. You can find it at most health food stores that sell vitamins and supplemets. I would highly recommend it to anybody that is having anxiety or trouble sleeping.

I'm feeling like I'm coming from much more of a place of abundance. I still feel down occasionally but it seems to last much less time and I know that those feelings will pass. The Don Juan bible has really helped with topics to help get my head straight.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

She's taking a month off of music with the guitarist. She agreed this was a good idea.

The time off was expected because guitar man will be out of town for two weeks. She has said this would be a break. I asked for it to be longer and she agreed.

Hardly what I'd call contrition. More like convenience.


Anyone want odds on how long it is before wifey is texting / IMing / FaceBooking guitar hero?

 

[jophil28]

Hardly what I'd call contrition. More like convenience.


Anyone want odds on how long it is before wifey is texting / IMing / FaceBooking guitar hero?

If she does contact him (and I think that she will do so inside three weeks) it is likely that she will do so secretly so that their reunion goes undetected, initially.
This drama has a long way to go, methinks.

 

[Kailex]

Hardly what I'd call contrition. More like convenience.


Anyone want odds on how long it is before wifey is texting / IMing / FaceBooking guitar hero?

If HE is taking a mandatory break for 2 weeks (which is what the wife said to Hero)... then she'll be texting/IMing/FBing halfway through week 3.

She'll be fine the first 2 weeks because Guitar Man won't be around anyway.

Needless to say, it might start sooner with "Can't wait til you come back so we can sing and play together again".

I'd say 3 weeks though.

As for him, he's got some damage. This is part of why I don't think they've had sex. He seems a little afraid of having a girlfriend (recently out of a relationship) but has clung on to my wife as his friend. He was new in town and didn't know many people and she became his close friend. He has been very adamant that he does not want kids and does not want a girlfriend with kids. He's also been adamant that he doesn't get involved with band mates as he was burned by this before. Obviously that says that he is capable of crossing that line.

I don't want kids.
I don't want a girlfriend with kids.
It doesn't mean that I wouldn't bang a woman with kids and who claims to be unhappy in marriage if the opportunity to do so came around.

Let's be honest, he's a guitar dude with a singer that will "never make it big". He can find a great many of those all over. I'm not entirely sure he feels that huge sense of loyalty to your wife.

Out of everything you said in that paragraph, the only "correct" thing you said was that last sentence. He is capable of crossing that line.

Which means that he most likely will... maybe not sooner, but eventually.

Be weary.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

If she does contact him (and I think that she will do so inside three weeks) it is likely that she will do so secretly so that their reunion goes undetected, initially.

There are technical ways of dealing with the sneaking around issue(s) if she does do that.

GPS car trackers are one. At least with that you find out if she's telling the truth or not if you suspect foul play then you can deal with the situation with some certainty if she says shes going to one place and keeps on ending up in another.

I definetly wouldn't go that far with a plate or even with someone you've been with a lets say a year or two but for a relationship that's been going on this long I'd say it's justifiable.

Not to mention with half of everything being on the line in might lend some weight on her failings if she does do that into your favor in front of 'your honor' with a gavel in his hand.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

16 Commandments of Poon

Something HERO should've read a LONG time ago.

 

[samspade]

I think I caught this in time before she cheated on me sexually but it definitely speaks to the bigger problem of her loosing respect for me and our relationship. Also, her getting bored with me and expecting that I would support her as she went out and found some excitement.

As for him, he's got some damage. This is part of why I don't think they've had sex. He seems a little afraid of having a girlfriend (recently out of a relationship) but has clung on to my wife as his friend. He was new in town and didn't know many people and she became his close friend. He has been very adamant that he does not want kids and does not want a girlfriend with kids. He's also been adamant that he doesn't get involved with band mates as he was burned by this before. Obviously that says that he is capable of crossing that line.

I personally think they have fantasized about being together as part of an unattainable fantasy. For her its because she was secure in our relationship and he could be her plaything (puppy). For him, I honestly believe that he wants his life to be simple and doesn't want to be daddy to any kids of any woman (his own or otherwise). But I believe that he became very attached to my wife as, again, sort of a safe way to have a love relationship without the risk of it becoming a real relationship.

This is going to sound a little strange at first, but I think it's crucial.

We as men place way too much emphasis, in situations like these, on whether the woman has had sex or not with the object of her runaway fantasies.

A lot of guys in your position then spend time and energy on speculation. Did they do it? Are they just entertaining thoughts about it? If they did it, was it the hottest thing she's ever had? Inevitably this kind of speculation leads to a line of interrogation similar to the Clive Owen-Julia Roberts scene in "Closer."

Or, if the guy is capable of believing that no PHYSICAL cheating occurred, then a litany of rationalizations are conjured as supportive arguments.

Hero, you mentioned that the 'bigger problem' was her losing respect for you. But I don't think you see it that way - yet. Otherwise, her loss of respect and diminished attraction to you would be the ONLY thing that matters. Guy has clung on to your wife has a friend? F him. She needs a puppy? Let her go buy a F-ing puppy and live with that and a jar of peanut butter.

Whether they have had sex or not, your wife is guilty - guilty of behavior unbecoming of a quality partner. A woman who respected her man would never even allow the perception of such an affair - emotional or sexual - to see the light of day. Crossed the line? That ship has sailed my friend, whether a penis entered a vagina or not.

(And as Kailex said, Guitar Hero proclaiming he doesn't want kids/relationship with mommy doesn't mean squat. If anything, he's just running game on her, either on purpose or by accident. It's not going to diminish sexual attraction.)

If you owned a stock that was plummeting, would you waste time theorizing why, or would you sell before it hits rock bottom? How about a rotten apple - keep in your kitchen for analysis or toss in the garbage?

Talk is cheap. Walk away.

 

[SharinganUser]

What did you do for the other 17 years that raised/kept her attraction high?

 

[heroshima]

samspade, what you've said doesn't sound strange.

The reason I keep mentioning the possibility of sex is that prior to this that would have been the line that I would have considered to be "cheating". Now my eyes are open to the understanding that there can be emotional cheating as well. I never really considered this carefully before. I guess I never thought it would happen with my wife. We have had a solid relationship up until now.

I hear you. My first priority was to stabilize myself and create a strong frame. Also, I needed to create the perception of peace in my household for the sake of my kids.

I fully realize she has crossed the line.

 

[guru1000]

A woman who respected her man would never even allow the perception of such an affair - emotional or sexual ... Walk away.

Gents, listen to the above.

 

[backbreaker]

rotfl @ guitar hero

 

[jophil28]

samspade, what you've said doesn't sound strange.

The reason I keep mentioning the possibility of sex is that prior to this that would have been the line that I would have considered to be "cheating".

Samspade is right.

Cheating starts long before her panties hit the carpet.

Cheating exists along a continuum.
At the very mild end we have 'party' type flirting, and at the severe end we see planned sexual encounters.

ln a nutshell, cheating is happening when one party turns OUTSIDE their primary relationship to another person to have their emotional or sexual needs indulged .

Cheating exists when a 'triangle' is created and maintained by one of the original pair.

 

[jophil28]

I hear you. My first priority was to stabilize myself and create a strong frame. Also, I needed to create the perception of peace in my household for the sake of my kids.

" ...perception of peace for the sake of the kids.."

I understand what and why you are saying that, BUT perception is not reality.

You need to create the REALITY of a re-establishment of your rightful leadership... no smoke and mirrors, and no lame "perception".
Your children do not deserved to be deceived even if your intentions are honorable.
They deserve a father who is in charge, nothing less will do.

 

[heroshima]

" ...perception of peace for the sake of the kids.."

I understand what and why you are saying that, BUT perception is not reality.

You need to create the REALITY of a re-establishment of your rightful leadership... no smoke and mirrors, and no lame "perception".
Your children do not deserved to be deceived even if your intentions are honorable.
They deserve a father who is in charge, nothing less will do.

I understand. I have created peace because I now feel that I am in a strong enough position to not fight.

What I trying to figure out now is how do I continue to view my wife (or my wife's bloated ego) as an adversary while maintaining peace in the house?

 

[Falcon25]

Are you guys still discussing this guy's dysfunctional life and relationship? Let this thread die. This guy is hopeless.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

I liked Rolo's response. I will go one step further and say she has already fuvked him. Many times. She will find another guitarist. This time, you won't know. You did something that no man should do, you verbalized your feelings. When she wanted her "hobby" you should have put your foot down. No hobbies that take time away from her children. Second, when she started getting the hots for this guy, all of a sudden, you have a blonde that is calling you or texting. Nothing, nothing, flames a relationship like a woman scorned and jealous. She has you. I suggest; 1) hide money 2) make sure she sees or hears about women in your hobbies 3) stop giving a fuvk and talking, don't touch her. You fuvking *****. Look at what she is doing to you. Slap this ***** around a bit. A woman should FEAR you, as well as LOVE you. She doesn't fear or respect you. Why do you think divorce rate is so low in other parts of the world? Is it because they let their wives have singing careers and male lead's at 40? Unbelievable some of these guys.

You apologized? For what? Being a man? A husband? A dad? WTF?

You gave an ultimatum? Us men don't give ultimatums. Girls do that. We speak with our actions.

I can go on and on. I'm so tired of seeing this happen to men. I just wish that men understood that love alone means nothing to a woman. It's fear of losing you, fear of getting her ass beat, putting her in place BEFORE these things happen. Training her like a dog. Does that sound too vulgar? Does it offend your ears? What happens when you reward bad behavior in a dog? Sure, she's not a dog, but she's a woman. SHE WILL FUVK OTHER MEN IF YOU DON"T STEP UP. SHE HAS TO GO TO BED NEXT TO YOU EVERY NIGHT, KNOWING THAT YOU COULD BE GONE OR SOME VERY BAD **** WILL HAPPEN IF SHE CROSSES THAT LINE OF DISRESPECT.

So, if you don't like tasting another man's *** in your wife's vagina. I suggest you start acting a little crazy, a little off, a little weird the next few weeks. COMPLETE CHANGE OF CHARACTER.

Amen! This guy got it right.

Like Falcon mentioned about third world countries and why their divorce rates are typically FAR lower than the US; Consequences if she cheats or disrespects you in anyway. The result of this? Men get respected in the majority of those third world countries.

The old 'give em an inch they take a mile' applies here. I am a HUGE believer in holding someone accountable if they act badly especially if it's a significant other in a relationship.

They treat you well you treat them well, simple enough. They treat you badly you treat them badly x3 because it was them that was stupid enough to start it all the while you were being good to them.

Everyone from my dearest family member to the bum living on the street is either my loved one or my friend until THEY prove otherwise.

My current LTR who is generally very sweet and who I treat EXTREMELY well in return, while "maintaining the frame" as it's termed here at SS, had a 'women moment' and tried a few disrespectful hints in the beginning of our relationship. I dropped the hammer on her (metaphorically speaking) instantly. 2 years later and she's still extremely gun shy to try it again.

Once bitten twice shy. If I let her get away with it back then then we wouldn't be here 2 years later as things would have just gotten worse.

I read a book called "Love Tactics" like 7-10 years ago (strikingly similar philosophy on relationship & DJ tactics as SS) and they said a relationship is like a house. One wall holding up the house was Friendship. The other wall was Respect. The roof was Passion. If you lose any one of these (especially respect) the house comes crumbling down. Interesting metaphor.

If the need arises whether with relationships, strangers etc., someone gets out of line while you are being respectful to them then you either step up immediately right then or step off permanently because once they get away with it once forget it.

 

[jophil28]

I understand.
What I trying to figure out now is how do I continue to view my wife (or my wife's bloated ego) as an adversary while maintaining peace in the house?

Whilever you are focussed on her actions, thoughts, feelings, intentions or mindgames you are playing in her sandbox. And you will remain reactive.

Your mission is first and foremost to rebuild your own sense of personal power from the inside.
Ultimately the only legitimate power we all have is the power to live our lives in sensible, productive ways.

In your position I would be working on ridding myself of all that marriage "flab"..
The flab I am talking about is your willingness to be less than the best you can be because it is 'easy' to be that way.
We men can "settle" inside relationships -we become tolerant of the intolerable, and accept the unacceptable for the sake of "peace" and compromise.
Your "recovery" depends on implementing a gradual but concerted campaign of self disciplined resistance to your old ways of shaping and molding yourself to accomodate her whims and wishes..

She will change herself only after YOU change yourself.

The key to reversing her 'lost direction' is not by exerting overt power over her, but by creating a list of dominant qualities and attributes that you need for yourself, and then being willing to do whatever it takes to acquire them.

 

[frivolousz21]

Whilever you are focussed on her actions, thoughts, feelings, intentions or mindgames you are playing in her sandbox. And you will remain reactive.

Your mission is first and foremost to rebuild your own sense of personal power from the inside.
Ultimately the only legitimate power we all have is the power to live our lives in sensible, productive ways.

In your position I would be working on ridding myself of all that marriage "flab"..
The flab I am talking about is your willingness to be less than the best you can be because it is 'easy' to be that way.
We men can "settle" inside relationships -we become tolerant of the intolerable, and accept the unacceptable for the sake of "peace" and compromise.
Your "recovery" depends on implementing a gradual but concerted campaign of self disciplined resistance to your old ways of shaping and molding yourself to accomodate her whims and wishes..

She will change herself only after YOU change yourself.

The key to reversing her 'lost direction' is not by exerting overt power over her, but by creating a list of dominant qualities and attributes that you need for yourself, and then being willing to do whatever it takes to acquire them.

This is gold. And dead on. If this guy gets his **** together for him and for his kids to give them what he believes is a strong father.

his wife will either get in line or resist and possibly leave and while it is really hard to see passed that after 20 years. He will be much better off for it, if he does this for himself and not her.

Honestly no matter what she is doing now, if he "man" up she will likely fall in line like my cat does.

during my 2 year pill popping life...my woman told me first and foremost she wants a say and equality but she wants me wearing the pants and being an addict will ruin that.

I learned quickly when I got clean for me and took my life back and made it what I WANT IT TO BE. EVERYONE FELL IN LINE OR GOT THE **** OUT.

so many of us are terrified to take that ownership because we are afraid someone will leave.


this goes all the way back to my ONE I TIS in 2004 that got me here. I was such a huge *****. And when I finally found this place and manned up...she finally after me being a ***** writing love letters begging for her. Chases me, wanted me. I was done with it.

that opened my eyes.

Once your eyes are opened you are free to make this whatever you want it to be. That is where we can sit and debate all day what is the right way.

but once the eyes are open, you can make whatever right way you want

 

[heroshima]

I like it.

I'm on it.