Your Interpretation of my AFC moves

[Vulpine]

Heh, me too. But, it's on her. She'll leave him sweat for like a week, watch.

 

[bigjohnson]

Getting here late. As usual.

Seriously, I guess I'm not a hard core PUA, but some degree of attachment works for me, it's just a matter of not letting it cloud me into giving up the reins. That's I think was the only mistake, and given this girls apparent love of control she might not be a suitable person to get attached to.

Call me master of the obvious.

The irony is that normal women want to submit to a man who they respect and who cares for (AKA, loves) them. When they let their Hollywood inculcated programming take over and succeed in wresting control away from the man they usually lose interest soon after and get into the AFC man-mocking mode.

I blame Hollywood and women's suffrage.

I also think you're doing OK here - don't let other people impose their goals on you, men or women.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

Hey everyone - no status updates yet, but I've already planned responses either way.

If she says OK tonight, I'm gonna go out with her as she said she would get back to me today and therefore it would be unfair to make plans and it would only add fuel to her fire.

If she says OK tomorrow, I'm gonna pull the I've already made plans bit (although I don't have plans currently, I'll just pick up and go snowboarding or rock climbing)

If she says NO, I'm gonna do what I call LMR (Last Minute Respect) and say, "That's unfortunate, but I understand your position. I consider myself lucky to have met you and I wish you luck in the future." This sorta sh1t will roll around in her head for days, pi$$ her off, and make her wonder about me. It's a push pull of sorts.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

In conclusion...

I just got a text from her

"I'm sorry, but I don't think NY is a good idea yet. Just wanted to let you know."

To which I replied,

"That's fine princess (a name I use to tease her which she hates). I already made plans, but I think we should just be friends anyways. It truly was great meeting you though. Good luck in your future."

I think I was motivated to do this because I just got done reading and re-reading the "Walk Away" thread and realized that any b1tchiness that she is already showing will only be 10x worse down the road.

NEXT!

 

[G-Theory]

Way to go Man!

 

[blueguy]

Nice thread. I haven't seen an insightful thread like this in a few weeks. It's late here so I'll just point out one thing about your last reply. One thing I've learned is that the less you say, the better. She obviously already knows this:

---------
"I'm sorry, but I don't think NY is a good idea yet. Just wanted to let you know."

To which I replied,

"That's fine princess (a name I use to tease her which she hates). I already made plans, but I think we should just be friends anyways. It truly was great meeting you though. Good luck in your future."
---------

I would have just not replied or said "that's cool." The more you say, the more power you give away because it shows that you really do care about what she thinks (even if your words say otherwise). Test it out a bit and you'll see that it's true. Sometimes silence is the most powerful weapon to communicate indifference. Check out 48 laws of power.... it's obviously very applicable to this thread since the entire subject is about a power struggle.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

Great recommendation - I already have all of Greene's books actually. Art of Seduction, 48 laws, and 33 rules of war. All pretty good history books with nice lessons to be learned.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

Guess who's back? She sent me a MySpace message over the weekend.

I think it's ironic how you say you want to be friends but....good luck in your future and it was nice meeting you? all in one message? a bit contradictory don't ya think...

Anyone have any interpretations? Apparently my response got under her skin. I will not be replying, I'm sure I'll get a few more from her. Maybe I should reply and be like "Oh... I was just kidding about wanting to be friends... I really want nothing more from you."

J/k - That's just giving away my power. Fun thinking up responses though.

 

[Vulpine]

In conclusion...

I just got a text from her

"I'm sorry, but I don't think NY is a good idea yet. Just wanted to let you know."

To which I replied!

MBS, I have to point out that you missed it again.

Punish for bad behavior, reward for good behavior.

"No thanks" is not the desired response. SO, you SHUT UP until she gives you the correct response. If you hadn't replied at all and left her to sit and stew, she would change her mind or offer an alternative. Attention withdrawl is the most basic push/pull there is.

She gave you a poor answer and you rewarded her with a response. (see also Desdinova's "sh!tting on the carpet" sig) Counterproductive. And, your response was even more counterproductive.

Sorry, I was busy Friday and AFK for a bit and missed that you had repsonses pre-determined, otherwise I would have tried to convince you to ingore her if you got a negative answer.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

You're right and I realize that now. Learn from my mistakes. However - she messaged me again today (see above) to which there will be no reply.

She's just another broken plate at this stage.

To make up for it I've lined up a few dates including one tonight with an old fvck buddy. At this point this girl can chase me or she can get out of my reality. Either way works.

Also thanks to Vulpine and the others on this thread that have really opened my eyes to a few new things regarding push/pulls. I can't wait to start using them!

 

[blueguy]

I'll just add in a little more of what I think here:

Anger: "yeah, you're being a complete b1tch and I told you I wouldn't accept that." I don't call a girl a b!tch as it shows that she is under your skin and gives her power. I also don't get angry at girls I date. I act indifferent and withdraw attention.

Congruency: When all of your withdraw/reward behaviors are congruent, she won't think that you are upset when you ignore her - she will think you just don't care about her because she is not worth it as a result of her poor behavior.

Investment: I've already mentioned this, but the less time and words you invest into something, the more powerful you appear. She saw a great deal of investment into her and tried to take advantage of it toward the end.

Desperation: "I was already closer to home so said no thanks." I've got to say you did well there. Whether you do or don't get a lot of action, along with your congruency, she probably concluded that you do.

Respect: "I let her know that I don't accept disrespect in a relationship and to stop it." Actions speak louder than words.

 

[blueguy]

By the way, I added the congruency bit because ignoring her at this stage may not be congruent with what you were doing before......... and she may just conclude that you're upset with her.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

OK I hate bringing this thread back up but the saga continues and I want to get your advice on how to handle this situation. I should end this but obviously I don't want to (oneitis?)

So the last communication was her MySpace to me as posted above. Today, I just got back from a date and I get AIMd by R.

Here is the dialogue, how should I handle this assuming I want to salvage this relationship (only to discover that I won't want her, but that's for me to decide and I'm sure I will)

R (9:24:29 PM): are you there?
MBS (9:24:43 PM): yes
R (9:24:56 PM): happy birthday soon.
MBS (9:25:02 PM): thanks.
R (9:25:25 PM): so whats up...
MBS (9:25:41 PM): this and that
R (9:25:57 PM): how specific
R (9:26:48 PM): guess you're busy!
MBS (9:26:58 PM): what do you want R
R (9:27:19 PM): jesus
R (9:27:43 PM): what's your problem?
MBS (9:28:06 PM): nothing really, actually i'm great
MBS (9:28:27 PM): i love the new fall out boy cd - LOVE IT
R (9:28:33 PM): then why are you assuming i want something? that was harsh man
MBS (9:29:12 PM): gotta go
R (9:29:24 PM): whatever.

EDIT: I hate using this site as a crutch and I'm trying to provide as much valuable feedback to other posts as I can. This situation is driving me nuts so I should end it and I realize that, so any posts that say end it can be withheld.

What I would like is constructive criticism on salvaging this stuff as we both obviously still have IL. Should I call her, ignore her, wait for her to IM me again? She's pi$$ed off. I see pros/cons to doing any of the above so I guess I'm looking for one of the experts out there that have been in this situation to pitch in and give me their perspective (good bad or ugly).

 

[blueguy]

Hey bro, for what it counts, you seem like you're really smart and have a decent game from other stuff I've read from you but it seems sometimes you don't apply (or want to) apply some of the stuff you talk about. "MBS (9:26:58 PM): what do you want R" I would have just not replied and forced her to dig whatever out of me that she wanted as the "what do you want" thing sounded like you were upset. Anyway....... these are such small details.

I wouldn't give up. She's contacting you, and you like her. There is interest level on both sides. I would just escalate things slowly once you feel there is a balance of power with a slight upper hand in your favor again, being careful not to move too quickly as she will go running if you let her in easily after all this.

I'd wait for her to contact me again and work things in that direction.

 

[Mind_Body_Soul]

blueguy - you are right and I consciously know it, I'm still learning and the whole semi-LTR thing is an area where I don't do very well. From attraction to sex I can handle, but after that is the hard part (as many posts on this board will confirm)

Anyways - I want to post a happy ending to this whole saga but there really isn't one... I spoke with her this evening and told her that we can't have contact with each other at this point in time. She has a lot of mental issues with depression etc. that are all discussed above. Despite all of these things, I really do care for this person. She told me this evening that she wants to be able to call me when she's upset and I told her no. I said that I do not want to be her girlfriend that she complains and b1tches to.

We are parting on good terms and there is no negative energy. I truly feel like a weight has been lifted off my chest.

I want all the AFCs on here that are developing a sort of disrespect towards women for all the games they play to realize something - it is ok to like a girl and treat her well. It keeps coming down to this concept that I'm slowly learning -> You can do anything you want with women when you are acting based on your own desires and not out of need. The women that you let into your lives should complement them. If you are not getting what you want out of the relationship, you need to leave. It's that simple.

With this girl, I have done things based on what I felt was best for me and it has worked. She still maintains a high IL. She was crying the whole time I was telling her we can't have contact. She said that she's been lonely and depressed since we last saw each other. In this particular case, the problems did NOT stem from low IL, they stemmed from her own insecurities and depression.

I'm still coming to grips with the fact that I am attracted to "projects" as my player friend calls it. But, on a positive note, I had a date this evening and another one lined up for tomorrow and then Friday I leave for Spain where I will meet a ton of women (I speak Spanish fluently).

This site rocks and has given me new insight into this crazy world of sexual relationships. Thanks to everyone again!

 

[Vulpine]

I wanted to jump back to the AIM deal.

I personally think you handled it well.

She didn't want to go to NY, etc. So, I think the "what do you want?" is justified.

Furthermore, she got right to "b!tchy" after that... and A+ for shutting it down and "I gotta go."

You tried getting off the negativity with the Diesel Boy bit, and she jumped right back to it, and you shut it down. That was well played.

Donno what happened after that... some phone call thing. Well, at least you got a lot out of this little learning situation.

 

[Sir Drinksalot]

MBS,

I think you should walk away with this one before she ruins you.

My ex wife was exactly like this. Our early relationship was perfect. She behaved exceptionally and was more fun than any woman I had been with by far. She was everything I wanted - funny, politically on par with me, beautiful, a sexual animal, emotionaly mature (can't believe she pulled that off), family oriented.

Laurence Shannon calls this "The Chameleon Syndrome" in his book The Predatory Female. She becomes exactly what you want her to be - for a little while. It's not real. Just like I did, you're tellng yourself you can get back to this place and make it your norm. You can't. It's not the real her. She can't maintain the charade. Shannon calls it "Chafing in her temporary exterior." This is also symtpomatic of a persoalilty disorder called "borderline," which she may have in addition to depression.

After 4 or 5 months, stuff started happening to me that is now happening to you. She swears she wants to be in a LTR, but suddenly an AFC loser she tortured before me (she swore it stopped at making out) resurfaces. Don't kid yourself, this is because she gave him an "in" and encouraged it - just like yours (If she didn't encourage it, take his calls, respond to his IMs, he wouldn't bother). I took more crap for the next few months than I care to admit. In the end I gave her an ultimatum, she gave the chump the Heisman, and we went on. But it was never the same. Not even close. Boom, ten years of my life down the drain.

She probably has held the power in most of her relationships. Women like this are doomed to a string of unstable relationships. They're attracted to men who act like men and don't take their $hit. But their instinct is to control. They feel terrified when they can't control their man, because they can't even control themselves. This ends up with him ending it, or with her breaking him and making him AFC - at which point she ends it because she's not attracted to him!

Bail on this now. I know you can't stop thinking about her. And trust me, she'll keep resurfacing to try and get your attention. But you can't have a stable relationship with an unstable person. Be strong, and leave.

Another option is to keep her as a FB, but you are too attached to her to let her tentacles get on your heart and mind. She will drag you right back in.

There are things I miss about all the women I loved. So it is with all men. But you have to know when it's time to say goodbye.

The best memories you'll ever have of her are already behind you.

 

[wayword]

Laurence Shannon calls this "The Chameleon Syndrome" in his book The Predatory Female. She becomes exactly what you want her to be - for a little while. It's not real. Just like I did, you're tellng yourself you can get back to this place and make it your norm. You can't. It's not the real her. She can't maintain the charade. Shannon calls it "Chafing in her temporary exterior." This is also symtpomatic of a persoalilty disorder called "borderline," which she may have in addition to depression.

After 4 or 5 months, stuff started happening to me that is now happening to you. She swears she wants to be in a LTR, but suddenly an AFC loser she tortured before me (she swore it stopped at making out) resurfaces. Don't kid yourself, this is because she gave him an "in" and encouraged it - just like yours (If she didn't encourage it, take his calls, respond to his IMs, he wouldn't bother). I took more crap for the next few months than I care to admit. In the end I gave her an ultimatum, she gave the chump the Heisman, and we went on. But it was never the same. Not even close. Boom, ten years of my life down the drain.

But you can't have a stable relationship with an unstable person. Be strong, and leave.

Exactly. Latinoman calls this "hibernation mode." That's why the first 2 months AT LEAST shouldn't even be taken into consideration in an LTR. The true testing phase begins once the endorphins wear off and she starts coming out from hibernation a few months down the road - and revealing her true colors.

You cannot have a functional relationship with a dysfunctional person. And the daughters of 2nd-wave feminism are one of the most badly spoiled, overprivileged generations of girls in the history of the world. So, most of them have a lot of issues they've swept under the rug and skeletons stacked up in the closet. That's why so many of them are on psychoactive meds - cuz they're f'n PSYCHO. Which will all start surfacing once they feel they've gotten you hooked thru sex.

Caveat emptor.

Anyhow, you handled things fairly well, if not perfectly. And the rest of advice in this thread was gold. One of the best high-quality threads I've read here in a while, in fact...

 

[bigjohnson]

I swear, if I EVER decide to go for a serious LTR it's gonna be with a non-western woman, maybe I'll get a job assignment to Russia or something. Western chicks are (almost all) nutz.

 

[Strip Club Inspector]

MBS, here is an insight from cognitive psychology. People become obsessed with unpredictable responses of any kind. It's the most addictive kind of situation; this is why people become gambling addicts. One day they pull the lever they win. Next day they lose. Then they lose. Then they win, etc.

Our minds look for patterns; we want to figure things out. When a woman is naturally a little coy, then we tend to get interested. If she stays hot and cold in what should be the fun part of the relationship, though, that's usually the sign of a head case. And, worse, she'll drag you down with her. I dated such a girl. It was pretty awful. I did and said all kinds of degrading AFC things to try to win her over. I bought her a trip to Washington DC to visit her best girlfriend and she cheated on me there. Ugggh. We've since mended fences, but I know it was a bad time for both of us and she dragged me down with her inconsistent, ****ty behavior.

Anyway, grab your balls and just do the right thing. Cut her off completely forever starting right now. You'll feel better about it in short order. And before long you'll have some perspective. Nothing wrong with leaning on friends and this board for suport; but don't be like the sales guy with a short call list who is always talking about "This is a numbers game." OK, it is, now do the right thing . . . and I don't mean throwing a trash can into a pizzeria window.

Take care.