You Will Always Pay for Sex

[window]

Na that is wrong...if you're in a relationship with a woman and the sex is negotiated then ur with the wrong woman or you've allowed her to use sex as a leverage poin / bargaining chip. It really is unhealthy and the man is better off being alone than to be in a relationship where sex is not freely given from both sides.

 

[squirrels]

Even if "she wants it" and she pay for everything and whatnot, there are almost always costs involved, be it monetary, time, opportunity, etc.

So goes with everything in life. Time is always paid. Money is usually, for anything worth doing. You have to work toward setting up the environment for sex to take place.

Opportunity...well, that goes without saying. Hell, I stopped going out chasing tail on Friday nights for the longest time because I wanted to wake up early Saturday and tear up the backroads.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

There will ALWAYS be an element of exchange when it comes to sex - even when you're single and beating off to porn. It's easy to make these self-righteous declarations of how you'd never tolerate being manipulated by sex, but every time you see an add with an attractive woman selling you beer you are. You simply don't perceive it as such. If it were an overt manipulation, and made obvious to you often enough you might have pause to think you're being led around by your d!ck. But this is rarely the case, and in fact, depending on a guy's personal options, he may accept his circumstance in spite of being overtly aware. Anything can become normal.

However, the vast majority of women aren't overt about it - their natural communication preference being covert, but also to ensure that this exchange stays subtle and gradually becomes normal for a man. Obviously if you find yourself negotiating sex for something tangible, on some level you realize the dynamic, but women rarely operate in this fashion. And those who do generally have such a low opinion of the men they're with (or just men in general) that they become comfortable enough to actually be (usually mockingly) comfortable in acknowledging the exchange dynamic.

Martin Lawrence once had a great line in his stand up routine, "If women would ƒuck in a cardboard box, a man would never buy a house." Even the drinks you buy for that ONS you had still cost something. Even the girl who is so hot for you she climbs in through your window to get at your prick still sees her sexuality as an investment - it may not cost you now, but payment will be due at some point.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

it may not cost you now, but payment will be due at some point.

Not at all true. Not from my understandings about male/female relationships, and certainly not from my expereince.

Of course I understand how one could, in theory, come to this false conclusion.

The sad thing is, is that once you accept the above as TRUTH, then your views of the world are forever clouded by misperception.

This is AFC pedastaling at its deepest and most insideous.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Not at all true. Not from my understandings about male/female relationships, and certainly not from my expereince.

Then please, enlighten us all. Every response I've ever read from you is worthless contrarian sh!t with nothing to back it up. All you do is post quick hit contradictory crap, so what IS your experience? Why don't you tell us all about your well thought out reasonings on the subject.

 

[sodbuster]

I can see I'll need to get the crayons and draw a picture for some of you on how marriage works. When you are dating,you get it 12 times in a 3 day weekend. She's reeling you in. Then you get married,have to buy a house. So, now you paint,mow etc.-less time for sex;and you are a little tired, I'll get it tomorrow. Then you have kids and don't get more than 3 hours a night straight without a wake up[maybe you can get back to sleep,maybe not]. Sex isn't much of a thought when you are so tired you can't see straight.
Then comes the day the kids sleep through the night most of the time and you start thinking sex again. She's not interested. Do you end it? You have kids you've fathered,need to man up and raise them. If you end it, she gets half. What level of disrespect is going to be the end of the relationship if its going to cost you a couple hundred thousand? don't give me the "if she don't put out every time,she's gone line". Your balls aren't really that big. She'll get away with stuff she wouldn't have earlier,trust me.
If you've never been married, you don't know. It's like THINKING you are an MMA fighter[tell me how you did after you've been in the ring(in my case, I had my jaw dislocated from a punch and finished the match,but lost on points)(when I see the matches, I have no illusions about making my living fighting)]. If you've been married and divorced,talk to me-do you agree or not?

 

[NewMan]

There will ALWAYS be an element of exchange when it comes to sex - even when you're single and beating off to porn. It's easy to make these self-righteous declarations of how you'd never tolerate being manipulated by sex, but every time you see an add with an attractive woman selling you beer you are. You simply don't perceive it as such. If it were an overt manipulation, and made obvious to you often enough you might have pause to think you're being led around by your d!ck. But this is rarely the case, and in fact, depending on a guy's personal options, he may accept his circumstance in spite of being overtly aware. Anything can become normal.

There are direct and indirect costs to everything we do as human beings. eat that Pizza today, pay the cost tomorrow. Booze and enjoy a good cigar with the boys on Friday night - and lose your Saturday morning. These are all indirect costs. Costs of doing business.

Going out to look for poon on Friday night - indirect cost - beer money, time, oportunity - whatever. these are all necessary indirect costs. But you can't take these indirect costs and say, "your paying for pvssy".

Now, if I'm buying a chick dinner and drinks in the hope to get pvssy - then I would say, I'm paying for sex/face time with her. But I don'[t have to bare these direct costs if I don't want to. If I haven't been laid in a while, maybe I will, maybe I will not.

If your only concerned with getting laid for free, then better get the Lube out.

Whats the cost to the woman?

 

[NewMan]

I can see I'll need to get the crayons and draw a picture for some of you on how marriage works. When you are dating,you get it 12 times in a 3 day weekend. She's reeling you in. Then you get married,have to buy a house. So, now you paint,mow etc.-less time for sex;and you are a little tired, I'll get it tomorrow. Then you have kids and don't get more than 3 hours a night straight without a wake up[maybe you can get back to sleep,maybe not]. Sex isn't much of a thought when you are so tired you can't see straight.
Then comes the day the kids sleep through the night most of the time and you start thinking sex again. She's not interested. Do you end it? You have kids you've fathered,need to man up and raise them. If you end it, she gets half. What level of disrespect is going to be the end of the relationship if its going to cost you a couple hundred thousand? don't give me the "if she don't put out every time,she's gone line". Your balls aren't really that big. She'll get away with stuff she wouldn't have earlier,trust me.
If you've never been married, you don't know. It's like THINKING you are an MMA fighter[tell me how you did after you've been in the ring(in my case, I had my jaw dislocated from a punch and finished the match,but lost on points)(when I see the matches, I have no illusions about making my living fighting)]. If you've been married and divorced,talk to me-do you agree or not?

If you just wanted sex, why did you get married?

To get married believing your going to get sex consistantly is your problem.

also, putting up with the BS she gave you.

I'm not married, but I've lived with several women. Each time, the sex has dried up - excuses, tired, busy yadda yadda. if you put up with it, then it's your fault.

I work with guys who every day complain about how little sex they are getting. The problem is, they continue to put up with it.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I work with guys who every day complain about how little sex they are getting. The problem is, they continue to put up with it.

The thing you're missing is that they're legally, emotionally and financially obligated to "put up with it". Once it reaches a threshold where they recognize money spent on a divorce and all the other liabilities that go with it is worth paying in comparison to a woman's frigidity, then they'll make the break.

And all that money, lost income and wasted potential are all aggregate parts of the price tag that her pussie had on it when she WAS putting out for them.

 

[sodbuster]

The sex dries up after you have the kids and the little piece of paper called a marriage liscense[her liscense for half]. Did any of your live in's have the RIGHT to HALF YOUR stuff? SOme of your income to support them after the breakup? IF you never risked losing more than a TV set in the breakup, thats like practicing in a dojo with MMA fighters; they don't usually hit you as hard as they can in practice. Dare you to step "in the ring". You'd be surprised what you'll put up with if it's going to cost you 2 or 3 hundred thousand and it's up to lawyers and judges to spend 9 months and $10,000 for your lawyer to decide the amount.
I got married for kids{to have them}. She just used sex to convince me to marry her[she didn't know the meaning of no before my first son was born, but after it gets expensive to leave, she learned].

 

[STR8UP]

I got married for kids{to have them}. She just used sex to convince me to marry her[she didn't know the meaning of no before my first son was born, but after it gets expensive to leave, she learned].

Just when I think there might be a glimmer of hope that marriage can be a viable option I hear real world examples such as yours and my hopes and dreams are thrown out the window.....

Seriously though, there's a lot at stake for a man to commit to a marriage. And if you don't realize going in that your chances of success are less than that of flipping a coin, you really are going in blind.

I'm not saying don't do it....I'm just saying you better be pretty damn sure of the person before you do.

 

[ketostix]

There are direct and indirect costs to everything we do as human beings. eat that Pizza today, pay the cost tomorrow. Booze and enjoy a good cigar with the boys on Friday night - and lose your Saturday morning. These are all indirect costs. Costs of doing business.

No there are profit earning ventures and profit losing ventures. Women profit from sex generally and men pay. You are confusing trade offs with net leverage or currency. What's so hard to understand about that? Just because your pride won't allow you to admit it, that doesn't change the true dynamic.

 

[ketostix]

Just when I think there might be a glimmer of hope that marriage can be a viable option I hear real world examples such as yours and my hopes and dreams are thrown out the window.....

Seriously though, there's a lot at stake for a man to commit to a marriage. And if you don't realize going in that your chances of success are less than that of flipping a coin, you really are going in blind.

I'm not saying don't do it....I'm just saying you better be pretty damn sure of the person before you do.

STR8UP it's time for you to stop hanging with younger girls and low quality women and settle down and get hitched to a mature quality woman heh heh .

 

[STR8UP]

STR8UP it's time for you to stop hanging with younger girls and low quality women and settle down and get hitched to a mature quality woman heh heh .

My business partner teases me all the time about an "opportunity" that I had to do just that.

Chick was 33 and itching to get married. Good looking girl, six figure job, paid for more than her share, etc., but as soon as she realized that I wasn't "that guy" she grabbed a hold of the next one that came along and sucked him in.

I actually think she would have made a decent wife (probably wouldn't have tried to take me to the cleaners if things went south) aside from the fact that she had serious issues with me knowing and interacting with other women, but a 33 yr old would have to bring a lot more to the table than she did in order to qualify for that kind of status with me.

Maybe my standards are too high?

Nah, I don't think so.

FYI- Incidentally, this is one of those women who actually paid more than her share and gave freebie BJ's (she even swallowed!) when it was her time of the month, hehe, but I wouldn't say that it didn't "cost" me anything to get some pu$$y.

 

[ketostix]

My business partner teases me all the time about an "opportunity" that I had to do just that.

Chick was 33 and itching to get married. Good looking girl, six figure job, paid for more than her share, etc., but as soon as she realized that I wasn't "that guy" she grabbed a hold of the next one that came along and sucked him in.

I actually think she would have made a decent wife (probably wouldn't have tried to take me to the cleaners if things went south) aside from the fact that she had serious issues with me knowing and interacting with other women, but a 33 yr old would have to bring a lot more to the table than she did in order to qualify for that kind of status with me.

Yeah she sounds like a good catch except for the 22 years-old part.

Maybe my standards are too high?

Nah, I don't think so.

I think you're just cautious because you realize contrary to popular opinion that women aren't really that invested in a guy and will quickly replace him with someone else. Women view men and sex how men view careers, as a means to progress up the ladder. That's the point I was taking from Rollo's thread. Think about it, if you had married this girl and decided you wanted to divorce and find someone else you wouldn't likely be able to do this at the same cost that the woman could. Now instead you decide to not take up the "debt" from the seemingly "free" sex and marry her. She's out the door and finds someone who will and whateevr you invested in her is gone.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Just when I think there might be a glimmer of hope that marriage can be a viable option I hear real world examples such as yours and my hopes and dreams are thrown out the window.....

Haha, quote of the day.

I think, if I meet a gal (whom I think) worthy of marriage. I'm going to print out this thread, and have her read it. Then document the time and date, and have her sign it. This will be the last test she needs to pass.

This way, later on down the road if she decides to "cash in" the price of sex, I can revert back to the signed document and prove there was no ignorance. That I was on a predetermined, calculated, payment schedule. Much like a loan at a bank.

Furthermore, I think I may have the priest at the wedding say something like:

Do you take this man to be your lawful husband? (cough)..before answering, you do know that this man is here because he's been getting a steady supply of great sex. He actually thinks this will continue. If that dries up, in the future, you now know that you are responsible for the marriage drying up. Should you decide to cash in payment, at that time, you can not claim victimhood. You will then be known as a loan shark collecting payment, in the eyes of the church.

And women wonder why marriages fail.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I got married for kids{to have them}. She just used sex to convince me to marry her[she didn't know the meaning of no before my first son was born, but after it gets expensive to leave, she learned].

You know Sodbuster, that's probably my only fear left in life..is to end up in a sexless marriage where the wife issues sex as a reward for good behavior, uses it as a tool to get what she wants, then cuts off all supply.

I've got a strong sex drive. That would not work for me.

I've never been married, so this isn't a post from experience.

But I image I would try every trick I knew, every "dj" move, to get her in the mood..I wouldn't give up. If that failed, I'd recommend seeing a professional sex therapist (preferable a hottie) for some hands on therapy.

If that still didn't work...I would just be blunt about it. Tell her that my needs are not being met, and suggest that if she isn't going to help, the best solution would be to get a hottie on the side to "keep the peace." The hottie may be the piece that holds the family puzzle together. She can be sexless..not me.

That's my thoughts..I know I'd be miserable in a sexless marriage. There's just no way I can sleep peacefully next to a woman unless sex is involved.

 

[STR8UP]

Yeah she sounds like a good catch except for the 22 years-old part.

No, she was 33. Either way...one is a bit to young, the other is a bit older than I prefer.....

I think you're just cautious because you realize contrary to popular opinion that women aren't really that invested in a guy and will quickly replace him with someone else. Women view men and sex how men view careers, as a means to progress up the ladder.

That's what I love about this forum....we are always reaching a higher understanding of how this stuff works. Even when you think you have it all figured out someone finds another piece to the puzzle and it's like A-HA!

Seriously, we have talked about this stuff a lot, but I don't remember anyone ever putting it into those words, and it's true, women DO look at relationships as a goal, and they use sex and sexuality to "move up".

That's why men are so much more loyal than women! We don't constantly scan the horizon for the next best thing, we try to take sanctuary in the one person we "think" we can count on. Then too often we become complacent and it just so happens that her "scanning" pays off and she finds someone who she determines to have a higher benefit to cost ratio than you.

It's so true that women ARE NOT invested in a man. They might be in the beginning, but they possess a mechanism that allows them to pull the trigger at any time, even if it means lying, cheating, and shifting blame.

It took me MANY years to realize that this is the reason why a woman can cheat on you and then turn around and BLAME you and call you an ass hole, all the while believing every word she is saying.

It amazes me how women are the ones promoting this fantasy life, yet they are the one who pulls the plug on it most of the time.

I suppose it's simply another example of how it is to women's advantage to have MEN believe in the idea of "happily ever after", since they always reserve the right to change their mind on a whim. They puff it up to be this great magical journey, then after the initial rush has worn off THEY are the ones always out looking. No different than an older woman shaming you for dating younger chicks.....it pays HER for you to believe her bullsh!t.

 

[djbr]

There will ALWAYS be an element of exchange when it comes to sex - even when you're single and beating off to porn. It's easy to make these self-righteous declarations of how you'd never tolerate being manipulated by sex, but every time you see an add with an attractive woman selling you beer you are. You simply don't perceive it as such. If it were an overt manipulation, and made obvious to you often enough you might have pause to think you're being led around by your d!ck. But this is rarely the case, and in fact, depending on a guy's personal options, he may accept his circumstance in spite of being overtly aware. Anything can become normal.

However, the vast majority of women aren't overt about it - their natural communication preference being covert, but also to ensure that this exchange stays subtle and gradually becomes normal for a man. Obviously if you find yourself negotiating sex for something tangible, on some level you realize the dynamic, but women rarely operate in this fashion. And those who do generally have such a low opinion of the men they're with (or just men in general) that they become comfortable enough to actually be (usually mockingly) comfortable in acknowledging the exchange dynamic.

Martin Lawrence once had a great line in his stand up routine, "If women would ƒuck in a cardboard box, a man would never buy a house." Even the drinks you buy for that ONS you had still cost something. Even the girl who is so hot for you she climbs in through your window to get at your prick still sees her sexuality as an investment - it may not cost you now, but payment will be due at some point.

Damn, even when I was with older women I was paying.

They paid for everything - the trips, the hotels, the meals, everything. I just laid down that I was young and plain broke -- I did not spend $1, but they did not care. I gave 'em what they wanted, and I got what I wanted. Also, again, I did not pay cash for anything.

I was not paying CASH, but I was paying. Time. Potential opportunities. Many other things.

So, yes, you are paying. It may not be cash, but yes, you are.

Women view men and sex how men view careers, as a means to progress up the ladder.

Fvcking genius!

I wonder how many women accept dates with guys they have very little interest in just to be entertained and feel validated?

Or give ALL THE CLUES that you should ask 'em on a date just to reject the offer?

 

[jophil28]

It's easy to make these self-righteous declarations of how you'd never tolerate being manipulated by sex, but every time you see an add with an attractive woman selling you beer you are. You simply don't perceive it as such.

THis is only true if you buy the beer.

The way to win is not to play...talk about stating the bloody obvious.