Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

You say ‘no’ - I say ‘leave’

Duster11

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To all the DJs here. I am looking for a perspective.

Here is how things went:

I was a typical friend-zone person. Met a girl 12 years ago (let us call her “Susan”), liked her but did not had the guts to say anything so became best friends with her but eventually I moved on towards other women because I was not ‘good enough’.
We were strong and have been there for each other. However in 2019, somehow, I realised I wanted to be with her in but knew I am knee deep in the friend-zone so had to get out.

Worked on myself, lost weight, did therapy, worked in my confidence and made a lot of resolution with my old self. On April 2020, I told her how I felt about her but she said no because she did not see me that way. It was disappointing at that time but I smiled and said ok and moved on but maintained our friendship.

Started dating another woman only to realise that she was what we would describe a ‘damsel in distress’. That made me wonder about my own psyche as like-minded people attract each other. Had to go through another intense therapy to identify why I was attracted to that woman and realised my own insecurities and traumas that were not healed. Mostly - I realised I was not in touch with my own masculine prowess.

As time flew, I kept working on my psyche. Susan came to visit my city in Asia (we live geographically apart due to our jobs) back in December 2020. We spent a good amount of time together - lunch, dinner, errands, night outs, car karaoke, long drives… We had fun. When she left, I had this intense feeling that something is different. And this feeling was mutual as her behaviour changed as well.

I sat down - meditated, over-thought, wrote and felt every emotion for 7 months. This time - I rationally thought of the situation. I looked at the differences we had and the similarities. In these 7 months, I wanted to be sure what is it that I want and had to rationalise myself before taking a step.

Susan visited my city again in July 2021. We had the same vibe where we left off. However, I made myself clear that I need to tell her how I felt so that I may find my closure.

On our last day together, after a thorough built, I proposed to her. She had the same answer - She did not feel anything for me, I am her best friend and other reasons. To this I replied that since she has rejected me for the second time, I need to leave. I did not say that I need to leave because I need to get over her but gave an ultimatum.

She was shocked and left.

I got a message later night that we cannot be together because we are two different individuals, with different family values and cultures. I told her that I have done my thinking and am aware of the differences therefore I am ready for what is to come and have my confidence. Told her further that if she needs further time, I will patiently wait for a final answer and am willing to discuss further.

A week later - she told me that she thought about us and cannot get pass the difference in our families and cultures. To this I replied that if the very intimacy is not present, there is no need to push a relationship therefore when I do not need reasons - therefore, why am I being given one and what is it that she wants?


Last night I got the reply that she wants us to be friends believes that we are incompatible so she ‘knows’ that she does not want to marry me.
To this, I replied that her decision will be respected but I will be staying firm with my own as well. She believes that this is a temporary phase and that she would wait for me to come back but I have made a firm decision and have told her that once I leave - there is no coming back.

That said - I have ended everything from my side.

From the above story - what is your perspective? Did I take things too far or did I take the right step? Further, it is evident that she is in a state of confusion herself so should I wait or move on?

Your answers would be much appreciated!
 

typical

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Read the Sosuave Bible and go read Rollo Tomassi’s first two books.

Out of over 3.5 billion women you’re infatuated with this one woman ?

You are her “Girlfriend” she will never ever see you as a “Man” worth sleeping or have a relationship with.

Also what is this new age bull****e where every man wants to be in a relationship ? Don’t you have any goals in life ? Or anything you want to accomplish before settling down ?

You need to stop talking about this woman and either remain her “Girlfriend” or grow some balls and leave her behind and start fresh with new women.
 

derby1

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From the above story - what is your perspective? Did I take things too far or did I take the right step? Further, it is evident that she is in a state of confusion herself so should I wait or move on?
Dont worry, but you wreak of social indoctrination, romeo and juliette, disney, a mans goal should be a woman etc etc.

why dont you read back your story, what you would advise you? its pretty feminine behaviour, if you were a hot fertile woman would this turn you on?

you have a lot to learn, first of all you talk to much to women, and are not the guy they want, a desired guy does not want a relationship or talk emotional chat to women, he is a catch that women pursue, and his energy is such. she would be lucky to get 4 DM's a day from him.

your polarities are totally back to front
 

Duster11

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Whilst I appreciate your comments but let me comment further:

Read the Sosuave Bible and go read Rollo Tomassi’s first two books.
I found this site after reading the Rationale Male by Rollo. Though there are great insights in his book, there are certain aspects that I have reservation for now.

Out of over 3.5 billion women you’re infatuated with this one woman ?

You are her “Girlfriend” she will never ever see you as a “Man” worth sleeping or have a relationship with.
This can be plundered on. Since I was Mr. Nice Guy in every sense, I am aware I ended up being the girlfriend you have pointed. However, I am very conscious that I have already broken myself out since I made her “think” about me.

That said - 3.5 billion women but 99% being dumb? Chances of being with an intelligent woman have narrowed drastically. Took the chance with Susan, did not worked out for me. Want to move. But - since I know myself, doubts made me seek perspective from people like you who are more experienced than me.

Also what is this new age bull****e where every man wants to be in a relationship ? Don’t you have any goals in life ? Or anything you want to accomplish before settling down ?
I do not live in my parent’s basement - they live with me. I have a established job, have investments generating enough surplus to further invest in other platforms, will be launching my own side hustle by the end of this year and am already on a path towards achieving my long-term goal. And I am 30.

I am saying this all not to brag but to let you know that while things are already great - I do not mind settling down now.

You need to stop talking about this woman and either remain her “Girlfriend” or grow some balls and leave her behind and start fresh with new women.
I refresher from you is highly appreciated, Typical. I will be starting fresh and needed to hear this. For this - I thank you.
 

Duster11

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Dont worry, but you wreak of social indoctrination, romeo and juliette, disney, a mans goal should be a woman etc etc.
I was sure that I was already past the Disney-esque fairy told I was fed but since you have pointed this out - I will definitely be looking into this.

why dont you read back your story, what you would advise you? its pretty feminine behaviour, if you were a hot fertile woman would this turn you on?
I doubt I can think as a hot fertile woman as I let that area be where it should be - with hot fertile women. However, after reading my story again - the feminine essence is there and I will looking into this.

you have a lot to learn, first of all you talk to much to women, and are not the guy they want, a desired guy does not want a relationship or talk emotional chat to women, he is a catch that women pursue, and his energy is such. she would be lucky to get 4 DM's a day from him.

your polarities are totally back to front
Derby - if I may ask - isn’t a masculine man the one who is in touch with his emotions? While we are taught be hard-ass men who do not cry, doesn’t being in touch with the feminine side of ours also serves a purpose? I will say that the feminine part of a man should not be dominant as it will only attract women with dominant masculine energies - and that could be a mess in the long term.

However, I was not aware that my story reeked of the opposite polarity as I was emotional at that time. I will look into this. For this - you have my gratitude.
 

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Atom Smasher

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You need to lose this idea of “the feminine side”. Men do not have a feminine side.

You and every woman have 2 arms and 10 fingers. Are your arms and fingers feminine because you both have them? Likewise, you both breathe the same air precisely the same way. Is breathing a part of your “feminine side”?

Just because men and women share an overlap of thoughts and emotions, this does not mean that those overlapping attributes are “feminine”.

I highly recommend that you eliminate this societally-driven thinking and instead step out into the world BOLDLY as a man. You have no “feminine side”. You are a man. Embrace it.
 

derby1

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Derby - if I may ask - isn’t a masculine man the one who is in touch with his emotions?
no , infact i would go as far as to say anything you do say will be held against you.

women live in mystery, men live in confirmation. as soon as you give her confirmation she will lose all interest.

you can only text and talk your way out of the ***** never into it
 

Duster11

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You need to lose this idea of “the feminine side”. Men do not have a feminine side.

You and every woman have 2 arms and 10 fingers. Are your arms and fingers feminine because you both have them? Likewise, you both breathe the same air precisely the same way. Is breathing a part of your “feminine side”?

Just because men and women share an overlap of thoughts and emotions, this does not mean that those overlapping attributes are “feminine”.

I highly recommend that you eliminate this societally-driven thinking and instead step out into the world BOLDLY as a man. You have no “feminine side”. You are a man. Embrace it.
Then I have a query for you - how do you define masculine and feminine?
 

Duster11

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no , infact i would go as far as to say anything you do say will be held against you.

women live in mystery, men live in confirmation. as soon as you give her confirmation she will lose all interest.

you can only text and talk your way out of the ***** never into it
If anything we do say is to be held against us - we are better off holding to what we believe.

Whilst women seek mystery - one confirmation is what they seek that many of us lack - i.e. providing security.

Would you not agree?
 

bat soup

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To all the DJs here. I am looking for a perspective.

Here is how things went:

I was a typical friend-zone person. Met a girl 12 years ago (let us call her “Susan”), liked her but did not had the guts to say anything so became best friends with her but eventually I moved on towards other women because I was not ‘good enough’.
We were strong and have been there for each other. However in 2019, somehow, I realised I wanted to be with her in but knew I am knee deep in the friend-zone so had to get out.

Worked on myself, lost weight, did therapy, worked in my confidence and made a lot of resolution with my old self. On April 2020, I told her how I felt about her but she said no because she did not see me that way. It was disappointing at that time but I smiled and said ok and moved on but maintained our friendship.

Started dating another woman only to realise that she was what we would describe a ‘damsel in distress’. That made me wonder about my own psyche as like-minded people attract each other. Had to go through another intense therapy to identify why I was attracted to that woman and realised my own insecurities and traumas that were not healed. Mostly - I realised I was not in touch with my own masculine prowess.

As time flew, I kept working on my psyche. Susan came to visit my city in Asia (we live geographically apart due to our jobs) back in December 2020. We spent a good amount of time together - lunch, dinner, errands, night outs, car karaoke, long drives… We had fun. When she left, I had this intense feeling that something is different. And this feeling was mutual as her behaviour changed as well.

I sat down - meditated, over-thought, wrote and felt every emotion for 7 months. This time - I rationally thought of the situation. I looked at the differences we had and the similarities. In these 7 months, I wanted to be sure what is it that I want and had to rationalise myself before taking a step.

Susan visited my city again in July 2021. We had the same vibe where we left off. However, I made myself clear that I need to tell her how I felt so that I may find my closure.

On our last day together, after a thorough built, I proposed to her. She had the same answer - She did not feel anything for me, I am her best friend and other reasons. To this I replied that since she has rejected me for the second time, I need to leave. I did not say that I need to leave because I need to get over her but gave an ultimatum.

She was shocked and left.

I got a message later night that we cannot be together because we are two different individuals, with different family values and cultures. I told her that I have done my thinking and am aware of the differences therefore I am ready for what is to come and have my confidence. Told her further that if she needs further time, I will patiently wait for a final answer and am willing to discuss further.

A week later - she told me that she thought about us and cannot get pass the difference in our families and cultures. To this I replied that if the very intimacy is not present, there is no need to push a relationship therefore when I do not need reasons - therefore, why am I being given one and what is it that she wants?


Last night I got the reply that she wants us to be friends believes that we are incompatible so she ‘knows’ that she does not want to marry me.
To this, I replied that her decision will be respected but I will be staying firm with my own as well. She believes that this is a temporary phase and that she would wait for me to come back but I have made a firm decision and have told her that once I leave - there is no coming back.

That said - I have ended everything from my side.

From the above story - what is your perspective? Did I take things too far or did I take the right step? Further, it is evident that she is in a state of confusion herself so should I wait or move on?

Your answers would be much appreciated!
This girl doesn't find you attractive. Her BS excuses about family values and so on are nothing but a smokescreen. She doesn't find you attractive and never has. You should have kicked her to the curb 12 years ago.
 

derby1

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If anything we do say is to be held against us - we are better off holding to what we believe.

Whilst women seek mystery - one confirmation is what they seek that many of us lack - i.e. providing security.

Would you not agree?
you are plugged into to many romance novels, and idealising relationships

go to any restaurant now, women at the table aint gossiping about the romantic guy, theyre gossiping about the guy who messes them about.

obviously you can only pull macho man stunts when you have laid down some macho man D
 

GT40

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This girl doesn't find you attractive. Her BS excuses about family values and so on are nothing but a smokescreen. She doesn't find you attractive and never has. You should have kicked her to the curb 12 years ago.
Totally. Why waste time on this female. WTF man get in gear. Wake up. Move on.
 

metalwater

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To all the DJs here. I am looking for a perspective.

Here is how things went:

I was a typical friend-zone person. Met a girl 12 years ago (let us call her “Susan”), liked her but did not had the guts to say anything so became best friends with her but eventually, I moved on towards other women because I was not ‘good enough.
We were strong and have been there for each other. However in 2019, somehow, I realised I wanted to be with her in but knew I am knee deep in the friend-zone so had to get out.

Worked on myself, lost weight, did therapy, worked in my confidence and made a lot of resolution with my old self. On April 2020, I told her how I felt about her but she said no because she did not see me that way. It was disappointing at that time but I smiled and said ok and moved on but maintained our friendship.

Started dating another woman only to realise that she was what we would describe a ‘damsel in distress’. That made me wonder about my own psyche as like-minded people attract each other. Had to go through another intense therapy to identify why I was attracted to that woman and realised my own insecurities and traumas that were not healed. Mostly - I realised I was not in touch with my own masculine prowess.

As time flew, I kept working on my psyche. Susan came to visit my city in Asia (we live geographically apart due to our jobs) back in December 2020. We spent a good amount of time together - lunch, dinner, errands, night outs, car karaoke, long drives… We had fun. When she left, I had this intense feeling that something is different. And this feeling was mutual as her behaviour changed as well.

I sat down - meditated, over-thought, wrote and felt every emotion for 7 months. This time - I rationally thought of the situation. I looked at the differences we had and the similarities. In these 7 months, I wanted to be sure what is it that I want and had to rationalise myself before taking a step.

Susan visited my city again in July 2021. We had the same vibe where we left off. However, I made myself clear that I need to tell her how I felt so that I may find my closure.

On our last day together, after a thorough built, I proposed to her. She had the same answer - She did not feel anything for me, I am her best friend and other reasons. To this I replied that since she has rejected me for the second time, I need to leave. I did not say that I need to leave because I need to get over her but gave an ultimatum.

She was shocked and left.

I got a message later night that we cannot be together because we are two different individuals, with different family values and cultures. I told her that I have done my thinking and am aware of the differences therefore I am ready for what is to come and have my confidence. Told her further that if she needs further time, I will patiently wait for a final answer and am willing to discuss further.

A week later - she told me that she thought about us and cannot get pass the difference in our families and cultures. To this I replied that if the very intimacy is not present, there is no need to push a relationship therefore when I do not need reasons - therefore, why am I being given one and what is it that she wants?


Last night I got the reply that she wants us to be friends believes that we are incompatible so she ‘knows’ that she does not want to marry me.
To this, I replied that her decision will be respected but I will be staying firm with my own as well. She believes that this is a temporary phase and that she would wait for me to come back but I have made a firm decision and have told her that once I leave - there is no coming back.

That said - I have ended everything from my side.

From the above story - what is your perspective? Did I take things too far or did I take the right step? Further, it is evident that she is in a state of confusion herself so should I wait or move on?

Your answers would be much appreciated!
could you summarise what you know about the red pill for men?

there is a bunch of stuff that can help, but if you will share what you already know. no need to duplicate stuff.

would you also tell how you believe women select men and what they think is important?

I am not trying to test you or anything strange it's to see what is your idea of what has happened. it's useful for you to learn what happened so that it doesn't ever happen to you again. Lots of men have some version of this same story, with just some details changed.

I Will start by telling you that if she wanted you she would have you already, even long ago. When women target a man that they want they are usually successful regardless of all the situations. Often they can not convince the target guy to keep them, but they usually can get intimate with any guy they target if given time, such as a few weeks or less. Within 12 years, the only possibility is she does not want you. It's important to key into that so that it doesn't happen again because that situation is no fun.

This forum is full of guys that know at least the basics that you will want to learn.
 

bat soup

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You can't wait 12 years to make a move. Generally speaking, if nothing happens within the first week, forget it. Ideally, when you meet a girl you should be able to figure out within 5 minutes whether or not she's interested. It's as simple as getting close and seeing if she moves away.
 

Bokanovsky

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From the above story - what is your perspective? Did I take things too far or did I take the right step? Further, it is evident that she is in a state of confusion herself so should I wait or move on?

Your answers would be much appreciated!
This was a difficult post to read. The amount of time that you have wasted on Susan is astronomical. The average life expectancy for a male is around 80 years. That means that you've wasted about 15% of your life on this oneitis. Let that sink in. And no, you were never "best friends" with this girl. You were always hoping that one day you would be more than friends. Mitigate your damages and cut all ties with Susan immediately.
 

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Barrister

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To all the DJs here. I am looking for a perspective.

Here is how things went:

I was a typical friend-zone person. Met a girl 12 years ago (let us call her “Susan”), liked her but did not had the guts to say anything so became best friends with her but eventually I moved on towards other women because I was not ‘good enough’.
We were strong and have been there for each other. However in 2019, somehow, I realised I wanted to be with her in but knew I am knee deep in the friend-zone so had to get out.

Worked on myself, lost weight, did therapy, worked in my confidence and made a lot of resolution with my old self. On April 2020, I told her how I felt about her but she said no because she did not see me that way. It was disappointing at that time but I smiled and said ok and moved on but maintained our friendship.

Started dating another woman only to realise that she was what we would describe a ‘damsel in distress’. That made me wonder about my own psyche as like-minded people attract each other. Had to go through another intense therapy to identify why I was attracted to that woman and realised my own insecurities and traumas that were not healed. Mostly - I realised I was not in touch with my own masculine prowess.

As time flew, I kept working on my psyche. Susan came to visit my city in Asia (we live geographically apart due to our jobs) back in December 2020. We spent a good amount of time together - lunch, dinner, errands, night outs, car karaoke, long drives… We had fun. When she left, I had this intense feeling that something is different. And this feeling was mutual as her behaviour changed as well.

I sat down - meditated, over-thought, wrote and felt every emotion for 7 months. This time - I rationally thought of the situation. I looked at the differences we had and the similarities. In these 7 months, I wanted to be sure what is it that I want and had to rationalise myself before taking a step.

Susan visited my city again in July 2021. We had the same vibe where we left off. However, I made myself clear that I need to tell her how I felt so that I may find my closure.

On our last day together, after a thorough built, I proposed to her. She had the same answer - She did not feel anything for me, I am her best friend and other reasons. To this I replied that since she has rejected me for the second time, I need to leave. I did not say that I need to leave because I need to get over her but gave an ultimatum.

She was shocked and left.

I got a message later night that we cannot be together because we are two different individuals, with different family values and cultures. I told her that I have done my thinking and am aware of the differences therefore I am ready for what is to come and have my confidence. Told her further that if she needs further time, I will patiently wait for a final answer and am willing to discuss further.

A week later - she told me that she thought about us and cannot get pass the difference in our families and cultures. To this I replied that if the very intimacy is not present, there is no need to push a relationship therefore when I do not need reasons - therefore, why am I being given one and what is it that she wants?


Last night I got the reply that she wants us to be friends believes that we are incompatible so she ‘knows’ that she does not want to marry me.
To this, I replied that her decision will be respected but I will be staying firm with my own as well. She believes that this is a temporary phase and that she would wait for me to come back but I have made a firm decision and have told her that once I leave - there is no coming back.

That said - I have ended everything from my side.

From the above story - what is your perspective? Did I take things too far or did I take the right step? Further, it is evident that she is in a state of confusion herself so should I wait or move on?

Your answers would be much appreciated!
This woman has used you for a validation safety net for years. That is all this has actually been to her. Whether she has felt any type of emotion for you is difficult to say, but the fact is she is not attracted to you (as others have already pointed out) and she has zero interest in any type of sexual/romantic relationship with you. Remember, the one who cares the least in any type of relationship has all the power. The difference in care between the two of you is astronomical, and therefore so is the power difference. You need to exit any type of interaction with this woman in order for your own well-being. This means No Contact and not responding to her attempts to reach out. You will not move on unless you adhere to this, and you will need to do this for some time since you have had oneitis for this woman as long as you have.
 

Kotaix

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You did the right thing to leave her by the wayside. I've been in this situation before and it's only when you have the balls to drop the sunk cost fallacy that you find freedom.

You need to cut her from your life and never talk to her again. And you should especially not be putting any energy into thinking about any woman who lives far away from you.

Also, you're overthinking things way too much and allowing your own emotions to project out into the world. I would invest good time on watching your own actions over watching the actions of women and learn to identify when you're working against your own best interest.
 

Duster11

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This girl doesn't find you attractive. Her BS excuses about family values and so on are nothing but a smokescreen. She doesn't find you attractive and never has. You should have kicked her to the curb 12 years ago.
Maybe I should I have done so years ago. But hey - better late than never!
 
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