"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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would you pay the bill on a first date or not?

pyros

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Hi.

I've been thinking about this question lately and in my experience, all first dates in which I did not offer to pay, they all end up in something good; however all the other dates in which I wanted to be 'nicer' by paying the bill, I got nothing or very little from the girl.

It is not because the bill is expensive, lets say you both grabbed a beer, I think if I do not pay the bill, I send a message that says Im not trying to impress her, win her, or any thing like this, plus they get shocked and think Im kind of an ******* because I just paid for my drink, while on the other hand I seem friendly and they had a great time with me, so mixed signals are good I guess.

thoughts?
 

"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."

Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.

Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?

You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.

Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.

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SamTheHobit

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Don't be a faggot and what you want.. I get the feeling if she's interested she won't mind if you do or do not pay.
 

j0504s

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SamTheHobit said:
Don't be a faggot and what you want.. I get the feeling if she's interested she won't mind if you do or do not pay.
i agree if she is interested it doesnt matter....thats also why you should try and do a "cheap first date" For example I usually do coffee and ice skating (im play hockey so i get to show off and teach them). so if date sucks atleast im ice skating which i enjoy and ispent 25 bucks total.
 

LMFAO

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I typically offer to pay at first date, you did invite her didn't you? But that's for a coffee or something small. If she's not a b**** she'll either say that she can pay it herself which gives her a lot of value or say thank you. I went out with an American a few weeks ago who didn't even acknowledge it, as if she deserves everything from free for guys, women like that can just f*** off.

If it's expensive don't pay for it and bring up equal rights, but that said it's a first date. Taking a woman to a restaurant let's say and spending 100 dollars on her will never work, "he doesn't even know me".

Unless she's a prostitute.
 

casaanova

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If you're trying to get a fwb you shouldn't be doing dinner dates anyway (or anything romantic for that matter)
 

"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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VladPatton

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yes I would pay the bill. A nice, cheap coffee bill that is! Why would you take her to an expensive place? Screen her and let the dates progress to bigger and better as time moves on. Both of you need to feel like it is naturally progressing and you have good vibes together. Otherwise you next her. Unfortunately, she can next you as well, so until further affections arise, keep the dates simple and it won't break your wallet.
 

Uncharted

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Yes but 99% of the time "first date" is a drink or coffee so it's pretty cheap.

I do appreciate when they offer. I remember once a girl looked away from the check when the bartender gave it to me as if to say "not my problem". I got a BJ that night and never called her. So I basically paid $15 for a BJ...
 

pyros

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but even if you asked her out, what is the point in paying the bill?
if she's agreed to go on a date with you, its 50-50, you wanted her to come, she wanted to come, so why should you pay for her?
if its a first date you barely know each other so, why should you reward her? just for coming?
its like if you were trying to sell her something, just because she listened to you, you give her a tip.

It makes more sense if you just paid for your drink, same for her.
However, if it was a girl you do know, you reaaally like her, etc etc and you feel like paying for her drink, I find it ok then, just in this case, but not when you barely know her because if you do, the dynamic that is set is something like:
you: hey I wanted to meet you to see if I like you and can bang you
her: hey, I came because I was curious, but I do not feel chemistry here.
you: hey, thanks for your time, here take 3 bucks just for giving me the gift of your presence, you dont like me though...
her: thank you!
 

mv.89

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I've paid for all the dates bad or good, expensive or not. I have money so I pay that's it. I sorta feel emasculated when a chick pays for me. I have paid cuz I can and also the waiter always brings a single bill whenever I've been on a date with no exception. I don't even tell me one bill or separate.

But I think if it comes to it I'll be a ***** sitting there paying only for my bill while she paying for her own. Is that wrong ???
 

"She Liked You in March. It's October Now."

Attraction runs on a clock.

She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.

The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."

One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.

Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.

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Hydrak

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Convince her to pay for both of you. Remember, you are the prize to be won. :up:
 

Mr Wright

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Psssh I remember having this debate with an ex-girlfriend. Needless to say, I won. I just told her this, I do not know this girl so why the hell would I spend my money on her when I have no idea what shes like. Yeah she might be hot but that does cut it. My ex went down the if you've asked her out route...and i said, she had the option to say no, if she likes me enough to go out on a date, im sure she can cover her side of things.

...the final nail in the coffin was, me likening a guy paying for a first day to prostitution. I mean you're paying for her time and possibly for sex if the lobsters big enough.

When we were in a relationship, I paid for most things because she was worth spending my money on, I knew her, I appreciated her.
 

SgtSplacker

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If I ask a girl on a date i'm basically inviting her somewhere so I do pay usually. But if were just meeting up for lunch, drinks or something casual, i'll usually split the bill or take turns paying or something.

I pay when I invite, not as a general rule.

If i'm not in the paying mood, it'll be more of a "i'm bored, wanna do something?" type thing...
 
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