Worst Job?

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

BlueAlpha, in your other thread you inferred that you have been a waiter for a few years. How much do you make per hour?

 

[Tenacity]

Yup. And watching vids online of people from other continents venting about the same things is scary. There must be an intercontinental manual for how they design these sweatshops. They could make a horror movie about these places.

One thing I learned that can be helpful, do not trust your wireless provider. Read your bill like a hawk, record conversations, and know when you're being upsold. On the other hand, be nice to the person who answers the phone. You'd be surprised how far they're willing to go if you're gentle after they get abused all day.

Bro, either put in this thread or PM me more about what you are looking to do for your Career. I'm going to outline a plan to get you to a solid $50k per year. Once you get to $50k per year, you will then have the tools, resources, and knowledge to strive to get to that 6 figure level, HOWEVER....making $50k per year in a decent cost of living area with no kids is a GOOD living.

Don't let these folks on here who claim they are millionaires (and have shown no proof of it) discourage you into thinking there's anything wrong with $50,000. The median income in this country for an individual is about $32,000 and making $50,000 per year puts you in the TOP 13%. That means you make more than 87% of all other individual income earners in this country if you make $50,000 per year as an individual.

Also I want to outline how to get your net worth up. My net worth (per the end of the 4th quarter) is over $200,000 and based on this chart here, I'm on PAR with someone DOUBLE my age at 65 years and older:

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Don't let these folks on here who claim they are millionaires (and have shown no proof of it) discourage you into thinking there's anything wrong with $50,000.

Depends where you live. In larger metropolitan cities, 50k/yr. makes you a pauper. In Flint, where you are from, 50k/yr. makes you a millionaire.

Shoot big or go home (with your tail between your legs).

 

[Tenacity]

Depends where you live. In larger metropolitan cities, 50k/yr. makes you a pauper. In Flint, where you are from, 50k/yr. makes you a millionaire.

Shoot big or go home (with your tail between your legs).

The measurement I'm using is based on a national measurement. I also mentioned that you want to make sure you are in a decent cost of living area.

If you are living near Manhattan, to be "middle class", you need to make at least $130,000 per year as an individual give or take.

And I would like for you to provide more details to guys here on how to get BIG, instead of generic advice of "shoot big or go home"........and if guys here are just too lazy and that's why they aren't a millionaire lol.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

The measurement I'm using is based on a national measurement. I also mentioned that you want to make sure you are in a decent cost of living area.

If you are living near Manhattan, to be "middle class", you need to make at least $130,000 per year as an individual give or take.

And I would like for you to provide more details to guys here on how to get BIG, instead of generic advice of "shoot big or go home"........and if guys here are just too lazy and that's why they aren't a millionaire lol.

Well let's do some math. Average condo in Manhattan last year cost 2 mil.

So, let's put 200k down (10%) and take a mortgage of 1.9mil (estimated 100k closing costs) at 4.25%, 30 year amortization or $9,347 monthly. Monthly HOA/maintenance on the condo is at least 2,000 monthly and taxes of $600 monthly totaling $9,347+$2,000+600= $11,947 monthly for the total condo expense.

Now let's add groceries ($400), utilities ($400), auto insurance ($200), auto (min $500), and garage (garage in Manhattan costs 1,000 monthly) and spending money ($1,000). Now we are at a minimum $3,500 monthly + $11,947 for the condo totaling approx 15,500 monthly.

That's $15,500 monthly after tax income. Let's use a 30% total tax bracket due to the mortgage write offs, so pre-tax income must be at least $22,142 monthly or $265,714 annual. Herein is your average Manhattan earner who owns a small condo.

 

[Tenacity]

Well let's do some math. Average condo in Manhattan last year cost 2 mil.

So, let's put 200k down (10%) and take a mortgage of 1.9mil (estimated 100k closing costs) at 4.25%, 30 year amortization or $9,347 monthly. Monthly HOA/maintenance on the condo is at least 2,000 monthly and taxes of $600 monthly totaling $9,347+$2,000+600= $11,947 monthly for the total condo expense.

Now let's add groceries ($400), utilities ($400), auto insurance ($200), auto (min $500), and garage (garage in Manhattan costs 1,000 monthly) and spending money ($1,000). Now we are at a minimum $3,500 monthly + $11,947 for the condo totaling approx 15,500 monthly.

That's $15,500 monthly after tax income. Let's use a 30% total tax bracket due to the mortgage write offs, so pre-tax income must be at least $22,142 monthly or $265,714 annual. Herein is your average Manhattan earner who owns a small condo.

$2 million? Hell I have to look up property in that area, but yes, I do know that if you live in a HIGH cost of living area like NYC, portions of Cali, etc., then it distorts your purchasing power.

So $50k per year from a national measurement is solidly middle class, with you being in the top 13%. But you must be in a low or average cost of living area to maintain this status, as living in a HIGH cost of living area distorts your purchasing power and requires a higher than normal amount of annual income.

I'm over here in a suburb of Michigan, with some of the top rated schools in the country, VERY low crime, good business climate, less than 3% of black people stay here (sorry, usually when it's majority black people in an area, you have a shytty area), and I'm surrounded with good business minded/peaceful people. I'm getting all of this PLUS, the cost of living in the area is pretty LOW. It's a win-win all the way around!

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

I'm over here in a suburb of Michigan, with some of the top rated schools in the country, VERY low crime, good business climate, less than 3% of black people stay here (sorry, usually when it's majority black people in an area, you have a shytty area), and I'm surrounded with good business minded/peaceful people. I'm getting all of this PLUS, the cost of living in the area is pretty LOW. It's a win-win all the way around!

Yes, cost of living is low but the trade off is less opportunity and less networking. In a metropolitan city, where the average established couple has net worths exceeding 1MM+, becoming a millionaire is relatively easy--and expected.

When you are in MI where average cost of a house is less than 100k, and median income is less than 50k, it's extremely difficult to reach 7-figure status unless you transact business solely with larger metropolitan cities.

I would never live in a low-cost area, unless that area was easily commutable to a large metropolitan city. Not to mention the population of hot women circulating here.

 

[Tenacity]

Yes, cost of living is low but the trade off is less opportunity and less networking.

No, it completely depends on what industry you are in.

In a metropolitan city, where the average established couple has net worths exceeding 1MM+, becoming a millionaire is relatively easy--and expected.

When you are in MI where average cost of a house is less than 100k, and median income is less than 50k, it's extremely difficult to reach 7-figure status unless you transact business solely with larger metropolitan cities.

What lol? Let me break this down:

- I'm in the Sterling Heights, Michigan area. Here's the demographics of the city http://www.city-data.com/city/Sterling-Heights-Michigan.html and here's the Cost of Living Index http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/michigan/sterling_heights. Average cost of living would be a "100" on the index, Sterling Heights is a 97, which means it's a low cost of living area. Also notice the median household income is $61,809.

- In New York, New York (the big city you are referring to) the demographics of the city are here http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html and the Cost of Living Index is here http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/new_york. You will notice a "180" for New York's cost of living index, which means it's a HIGH AS HELL cost of living area. But you will also notice from the demographics that the median household income is $55,752.

So living in New York City, you have a LOWER median income and a HIGHER (high as hell) cost of living.

This report here is a good source for national millionaires breakdown: http://phoenixmi.com/wp-content/upl...onaires-By-State-Ranking-2010-2014.pdf?5da317

Michigan has about 180,000 millionaires while New York has over 400,000 but New York does have just about over double the population.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

- I'm in the Sterling Heights, Michigan area. Here's the demographics of the city http://www.city-data.com/city/Sterling-Heights-Michigan.html and here's the Cost of Living Index http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/michigan/sterling_heights. Average cost of living would be a "100" on the index, Sterling Heights is a 97, which means it's a low cost of living area. Also notice the median household income is $61,809.


- In New York, New York (the big city you are referring to) the demographics of the city are here http://www.city-data.com/city/New-York-New-York.html and the Cost of Living Index is here http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/new_york. You will notice a "180" for New York's cost of living index, which means it's a HIGH AS HELL cost of living area. But you will also notice from the demographics that the median household income is $55,752.

Your link was for New York City which comprises Staten Island (low), Bronx (low), Brooklyn (up & coming), Queens (up and coming), and Manhattan.

Pull statistics on Manhattan alone, which I was referring to, and you will see a huge disparity. Median income is the middle number among an array of residents in a region but median income does not represent middle-class as in Manhattan the disparity of income is significant. Instead, we could define middle-class as the cost of living averagely in an area, which I've shown you to be over 250k/yr. in Manhattan.

As an example, look at the average home price in Michigan, estimated $100,000. That's an 8-month expense of owning a condo in Manhattan. How much does it cost an average MI resident to live averagely as opposed to a Manhattan resident to live averagely?

Further what investment opportunities does MI present to create massive wealth: I can go buy a piece of R/E for 2 or 3 mil, and flip in a few years for a 200-300k profit in a bad investment here. What are you going to do in Michigan to create wealth? I'm all ears?

This report here is a good source for national millionaires breakdown: http://phoenixmi.com/wp-content/upl...onaires-By-State-Ranking-2010-2014.pdf?5da317

Michigan has about 180,000 millionaires while New York has over 400,000 but New York does have just about over double the population.

Your cited ranking was in 2010-2014, post-recession. Real estate prices in some areas tripled here the last few years; meaning many 600-700k properties are worth close to 2 mil. Entirely different ballpark today than in 2010-2014. Pull recent statistics in "Manhattan" and see for yourself.

See April 2016.

Article about middle class in Manhattan.

"Household incomes in Manhattan are about as evenly distributed as they are in Bolivia or Sierra Leone — the wealthiest fifth of Manhattanites make 40 times more than the lowest fifth, according to 2010 census data."

Having such a huge disparity of income is what skews the "median" income. Especially given the number of students earning pennies. The cost to live an average lifestyle in a specific area would be the most accurate indicator of the middle class.

 

[Tenacity]

Your link was for New York City which comprises Staten Island (low), Bronx (low), Brooklyn (up & coming), Queens (up and coming), and Manhattan.

Pull statistics on Manhattan alone, which I was referring to, and you will see a huge disparity.

- Sure, here's the Manhattan demographics: http://www.city-data.com/city/Manhattan-New-York.html

- Here's the Manhattan Cost of Living Index: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/manhattan

Median income in Manhattan is $75,000 which is NOT THAT significantly better than Sterling Heights, MI at about $62,000. But get this, Manhattan's cost of living index is 260, which makes it one of the HIGHEST COST OF LIVING AREAS IN THE COUNTRY, without any significant difference in median income.

Median income is the middle number among an array of residents in a region but median income does not represent middle-class as in Manhattan the disparity of income is significant. Instead, we could define middle-class as the cost of living averagely in an area, which I've shown you to be over 250k/yr. in Manhattan.

Because the cost of living is high as hell, but middle class in Manhattan can be a guy making about $120k - $150k per year as an individual. He is middle class but it might not be as "comfortable".

Further what investment opportunities does MI present to create massive wealth: I can go buy a piece of R/E for 2 or 3 mil, and flip in a few years for a 200-300k profit in a bad investment here. What are you going to do in Michigan to create wealth? I'm all ears?

I already answered this, it depends on what INDUSTRY and what SECTOR you operate in. You act as if everybody in NYC is flipping Real Estate and are millionaires? I just posted the demographics for NYC as a whole, which has an 180 cost of living index with only a $55,000 median income which is BAD. Then I posted Manhattan, which has a $75k median income but a 260 cost of living index, which is BAD.

But if the industry and sector you work in only operates or is only HOT in NYC, or Manhattan, then I guess you have no choice. But this notion that you move to NYC or Manhattan "in general" and it becomes "easier" to become a millionaire, is just insane logic that's not backed up by ANY facts, stats, nor reports.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

- Sure, here's the Manhattan demographics: http://www.city-data.com/city/Manhattan-New-York.html

- Here's the Manhattan Cost of Living Index: http://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/new_york/manhattan

Median income in Manhattan is $75,000 which is NOT THAT significantly better than Sterling Heights, MI at about $62,000. But get this, Manhattan's cost of living index is 260, which makes it one of the HIGHEST COST OF LIVING AREAS IN THE COUNTRY, without any significant difference in median income.

Let's take the following array of numbers:

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 10, 10, 10, 20, 20, 20, 40, 40, 40, 40

The median number is 2.

This array is representative of Manhattan's earners. The median does not define the middle class. Here's why:

Population of Manhattan is 1.6 mil. There are over 200,000 rent-stablized and rent-controlled apartments in Manhattan. Rent-controlled and -stablized mean landlords cannot raise rents or raise them intermittently for pennies, so many renters who live in these types of apartments are paying $300-400 monthly in apartments that could rent for $5,000 month in a free market today!

So let's do some simple math: 200,000 rent-stablized/controlled apartments in the city with two residents per apartment equals 400,000 rent-stabilized tenants out of a total 1.6 million population. That's 25% of the population who earn peanuts. Mix in the hundreds of thousands of students, and we have a significantly skewed median, which does not represent the middle class.

For us to define middle class, we need to look at how much it costs to maintain a middle-of-the-road living. Earlier I detailed the following:

Well let's do some math. Average condo in Manhattan last year cost 2 mil.

So, let's put 200k down (10%) and take a mortgage of 1.9mil (estimated 100k closing costs) at 4.25%, 30 year amortization or $9,347 monthly. Monthly HOA/maintenance on the condo is at least 2,000 monthly and taxes of $600 monthly totaling $9,347+$2,000+600= $11,947 monthly for the total condo expense.

Now let's add groceries ($400), utilities ($400), auto insurance ($200), auto (min $500), and garage (garage in Manhattan costs 1,000 monthly) and spending money ($1,000). Now we are at a minimum $3,500 monthly + $11,947 for the condo totaling approx 15,500 monthly.

That's $15,500 monthly after tax income. Let's use a 30% total tax bracket due to the mortgage write offs, so pre-tax income must be at least $22,142 monthly or $265,714 annual. Herein is your average Manhattan earner who owns a small condo.

Middle class in Manhattan is over 250k/yr! This is further collaborated by this article.

I already answered this, it depends on what INDUSTRY and what SECTOR you operate in. You act as if everybody in NYC is flipping Real Estate and are millionaires? I just posted the demographics for NYC as a whole, which has an 180 cost of living index with only a $55,000 median income which is BAD. Then I posted Manhattan, which has a $75k median income but a 260 cost of living index, which is BAD.

But if the industry and sector you work in only operates or is only HOT in NYC, or Manhattan, then I guess you have no choice. But this notion that you move to NYC or Manhattan "in general" and it becomes "easier" to become a millionaire, is just insane logic that's not backed up by ANY facts, stats, nor reports.

Documented facts. Let's take a look.

In 2005, the median condo sales price in Manhattan was $750,000. See article here.
In 2016, the average condo sales price in Manhattan was $2,000,000. See article here.

This means that most who bought condos in Manhattan before 2005 and did not sell it are millionaires today. Now show me how anyone could become a millionaire in Michigan with real estate. I'm waiting.

Next topic, after you acknowledge real estate is garbage for appreciation in your state are businesses and how businesses in Manhattan dwarf businesses in Michigan, overall, and thus less growth potential and opportunity in commerce/sales for your S/E business.

 

[Tenacity]

Let's take the following array of numbers:

1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 10, 10, 10, 20, 20, 20, 40, 40, 40, 40

The median number is 2.

This array is representative of Manhattan's earners. The median does not define the middle class.

Sir, at no point in time did I state that "median income" equates to Middle Class.

Next topic, after you acknowledge real estate is garbage for appreciation in your state

It's nice that you are involved in real estate flip deals, I'm not, so it really doesn't matter. Also I wouldn't argue that Michigan properties are completely shyt when it comes to appreciation.

are businesses and how businesses in Manhattan dwarf businesses in Michigan, overall, and thus less growth potential and opportunity in commerce/sales for your S/E business.

Dude, once again, it depends on the INDUSTRY and SECTOR you are operating in, to determine which region of the country is going to be "booming" with jobs/opportunities within the particular industry and sector.

You cannot make these broad generalizations. Living in NYC is HIGH as HELL, period. Unless a person has no choice but to live there (due again to their industry/sector) my recommendation is to MOVE somewhere else with a low or average cost of living so making Middle Class level of income from a national measurement, actually gives you (from a purchasing power standpoint) a Middle Class level of lifestyle.

I'm doing god damn good over here where I'm at.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Come on Tenacity. I expect stronger contentions from you.

I encourage all to move to highly-populated metropolitan cities, take advantage of the real-estate and much higher middle-class income, build a strong net worth, and retire in the suburbs with a Pina Colada.

 

[Tenacity]

Come on Tenacity. I expect stronger contentions from you.

You're arguing just to argue. That's fruitless and pointless.

 

[Von]

The worst job = the job you don't like doing

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

The worst job = the job you don't like doing

I disagree to the extent that sometimes, especially in the beginning of your journey, you will have to engage employment that you are not entirely fond of but which pays well, which you can later spring off of into other areas that are more to your liking.

Initially, follow the demand, not your liking. Later, after building yourself and networks, you can follow your liking. Unless you are lucky enough like Steve Jobs, whereas the industry in demand is your liking.

 

[Tenacity]

I encourage all to move to highly-populated metropolitan cities, take advantage of the real-estate and much higher middle-class income, build a strong net worth, and retire in the suburbs with a Pina Colada.

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, everybody move to NYC where the cost of living is high as hell, BUT the chance of you making significantly more there to account for the higher cost of living (compared to living in a low or average cost of living area) is very slim to none.

Legend you know I have no issue with you, but I think you're starting to slip a little. Just like even in that POF thread, you continued to go back and forth with 9Volt and thread had to be closed. That's just childish and while I know you weren't the only one involved in that, it's still very childish for us GROWN A.SS MEN to not be able to agree to disagree, and threads have to be closed.

It's like you are even trying to start the same thing with this thread. I don't know how you with a straight face are advising people to move to NYC because it's some guaranteed meal ticket. You and I both know that's not true, so why are you doing that? You and I both know, the meal ticket is based on your skills, the marketplace demand for said skills, and you living/operating in the region of the country where said demand is located.

How in the hell can you argue that lol?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, everybody move to NYC where the cost of living is high as hell, BUT the chance of you making significantly more there to account for the higher cost of living (compared to living in a low or average cost of living area) is very slim to none.

Legend you know I have no issue with you, but I think you're starting to slip a little. Just like even in that POF thread, you continued to go back and forth with 9Volt and thread had to be closed. That's just childish and while I know you weren't the only one involved in that, it's still very childish for us GROWN A.SS MEN to not be able to agree to disagree, and threads have to be closed.

It's like you are even trying to start the same thing with this thread. I don't know how you with a straight face are advising people to move to NYC because it's some guaranteed meal ticket. You and I both know that's not true, so why are you doing that? You and I both know, the meal ticket is based on your skills, the marketplace demand for said skills, and you living/operating in the region of the country where said demand is located.

In all due fairness, in the POF thread, 9Volt trolled me, with entire straw arguments. I literally cut and paste "Show me where I said," and "More antagonist words" 16 times before he got warned. No substantive arguments there. FYI, 9volt is 19 years old.

Differently here, we are addressing the subject matter with facts and extrapolations. At the end of the day, the marketplace is only as strong as what it is willing to pay you, and as we have middle-class wages over 250k/yr. in Manhattan, we certainly don't have those type of salaries in MI in such mass numbers. If one only strove for middle-class (which I believe is a crime to one's soul), then he/she would be better in Manhattan with higher wages to invest.

We further established there are no investment opportunities from which to proliferate in Michigan so the ideal of becoming a millionaire in the short-term is a stretch there. Diametrically in NY, all you needed in 2005 was 75k for a 10% down payment on a 750K condo, and today you would be a millionaire today. Huge difference in net worth. Yes, location matters.

 

[AhegaoMaker]

Fast food won the vote for me
three years in McDonalds

never again

what with managers mismanaging your register money on occasion to the end of you being short $300 only to figure out that they deposited that money into the time-delay safe without accounting for it first

or the ever so horrible night shifts where you do dish cleansing work while you are the designated drivethru cashier and have to alternate between the two, and come closing time they ask why the dishes ain't washed yet..


2nd runner up is field tech support for coax cable service
the houses (watch them fit a 2-way straight splitter in a 2" x 3" box in the wall) and ****ty subcontracted service installers (usually so bad that we get called in the next day to fix the too fast to do it properly commission installation)

and the occasional customer who doesn't understand that putting a DVR at the end of a splitter daisychain simply does not work and subsequently refuses to connect it any other way, and nope, no drilling holes in the wall

finally, construction. or to be more precise, running and maintaining batch plants. Upper management being both stingy or hesitant with needed parts, materials and purchases, as well as supervisors wo think they know it all but weirdly enough do the stupidest things, and you have no right to complain, you inexperienced helper who has only three years under his belt worth of experience running and maintaining one...

FML, I feel so wasted here...

 

[BlueAlpha1]

Call center is winning with 50% of the 12 votes. This thread has been better than I expected. Keep sharing.

One of the reasons call centers are so brutal is because you are tethered to the computer and can't move, and sitting all day is bound to create a very stiff neck and back. Similar to taxis but at least they can stop at all.

But an argument can be made that retail (cashier/fast food) is worse being on your feet all day. That is pure agony.