Women LIE in order to maintain POWER

[jophil28]

Again, who are you to define the standards of bravery and cowardice.

Hahaha. It's hilarious how you dare to define those standards to me.

Magnetique is right - "Having to lie to women because you are too afraid to be straight up is beyond cowardice" ..and it reeks of panic and desperation and the kind of despair that follows repeated failure.

But if that is what your 'game' has reduced you to doing to 'get some' then have at it I suppose.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Again, you're imposing your standards of conduct on me.

x is bad because I say so.

If you do x, then you are a coward.

You do x, therefore you are a coward.

See the f*cked up logic in this.


I have my own standards of bravery. Bravery in combat, supporting an ally in times of danger. A warrior code.

Lying to women? Not even close friend.

I believe in the social contract. I respect your free will, and I expect you to respect my free will. If you do not, then I will respond accordingly.

 

[Warrior74]

Sorry guys. I'm not in that don't lie to women camp either. I don't lie to family, clients, partners, my daughter or my boss. People who's opinions I care about and support I need. I don't l lie to my girlfriend when I have one. But I'll be damned if I tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth to a woman I am dating or just screwing. She doesn't need to know. She hasn't earned my trust.

That being said, I usually lie by omission and deflection. But seriously, how do you spin plates without some form of deception? I'd like to know. Because if she ask were you were last night, do you say, ****ing a hot chic 5 years younger than you, or do you say, I was busy and hope she doesn't press it Cause guess what? One of those is a lie regardless.

I'm not sure what you guys definition of lie is. If she says where is this going and you started out as FBs and you want to stay FBs, what do you say? (actually, I don't lie here, I always lose my FBs because I tell them up front I don't want anything serious, they take it as a challenge, and then get mad when they can't win or I won't cave to ultimatums).

I'm just really curious to how many of you "no lying guys" are also "spinning multiple plates guys". Because if you can pull it off without lying, you need to be informing the rest of the guys here exactly how to do that instead of bashing ole Boxer Mack here.

 

[5string]

Asian...nobody is imposing anything on you. This is a discussion. Opinions vary. You're gonna do what you need to and that's ok. Some of us just don't agree with lying period. And for the posters above who think it's ok to lie to women just to get some cooch, that's pathetic. Some guys will do anything to get their d!cks wet. Those are the guys who have the mindset that the entire world revolves around poon instead of themselves. Many guys will just do anything to get some, even lowering themselves to the level of a liar. If you lie, you are being deceptive and have lowered your standards. I can't comment on Warriors thoughts other than to say that if you are spinnings plates and some gal is trying to pin you down as to where you were last night when you were out with someone else, you either...

1) Don't tell her at all (not a lie as you have not said anything)
2) Tell her the truth and let her deal with it
3) Lie

Number three is just not in my book, but that's just me.

 

[bukowski_merit]

I don't lie because i don't have to. I just don't answer questions i don't want to answer, and the women have to deal with that.

I disagree with the idea that that is lying.

If a woman says, "did you have $ex with her?"
and i say, "no" (when i did) - that is lying.

If she says, "did you have $ex with her?"
and i say nothing (except maybe smile at her like, "**** you for asking that"), or, "that's none of your business" - that is not lying.

It's not even bending the truth. It's just the frame i carry.

If we're talking about lying to some ONS - then yeah, i don't give a sh!t - do whatever then. But i choose not to lie to women i have extended relationships with because that sh!t will just blow up in your face and make you look weak in the end.



I also don't care what women know for the most part. "Yeah, i fvck a lot of women. Yeah, i don't make a lot of money. No, i don't have any ambitions to change that. Yeah, i wanted to live in the expensive party part of town, so i live in a very small 1BR so i can afford it. No, i don't buy women meals or drinks - yeah, they buy them for me. No, i won't say i love you. No, i am not having kids. No, i am not getting married. Yes, im just going to fvck many more women until i can't anymore then die...

Now come fix me b!tch! Come try... you won't be the first... or the last..."



And Asian - i've read a lot of your idols work and listen to his podcasts... i've NEVER heard him endorsing lying.... I've heard him endorsing being a real man and saying what ever the fvck you feel like saying and not giving a sh!t what a b!tch thinks.... But that's not quite the same as what you're advocating... You just developed this amazing system on your own?

 

[Warrior74]

Okay. Good post from you last two guys. Now. You explain to the noobs and nerds the consequences of a no lying policy. They need to know that as well.

Like I said, I don't lie to my girlfriends and to my FBs I put my cards on the table, but I find that FBS will blow out, leave, jump ship eventually. This is why you have to have multiple plates. If you do not lie, and do not go in an exclusive relationship SHE WILL LEAVE at some point. It may be a couple of months, it may be a couple of years, but it will happen.

And Asian - i've read a lot of your idols work and listen to his podcasts... i've NEVER heard him endorsing lying....

You need to do a bit more reading because you missed something. He advocates selling them a dream. What do you call selling someone a dream that you have no promise of delivering on?

Trust me, if I talk to a 28 year old woman who is looking for marriage and kids and I tell her I just want to "see where it goes" or "I'm looking for the one" to her that means, he might want to get serious at some point. I know that's a damn lie. Its a misleading statement. All I want to do is bang and then go back to my cave.

 

[5string]

Consequences of a no lying policy (as it relates to women)? I'll divide this into positives and negatives (only as it relates to women). Here goes.....

Positives:
1)You'll get more poon. Just goes to show you'll do anything to get it. That is desperation at it's finest.
2)You'll be manipulating her into doing what you wish her to do.
3)If you lie, she may never find out what the truth actually is and this could be of benefit to you.
4)Could make you look better to her in her mind if you lie. That might keep her IL up. Thus, more poon for you.

Negatives:
1)You lied. Doesnt say much about you as a person.
2)Loss of dignity.
3)Lowered your standards.
4)Where did your self respect go? Tell the d@mn truth. Who cares what she thinks? Either she can live with it, or she can't.
5)If ya get caught in a lie, you might find yourself in a hole you can't climb out of.

If you adopt a policy of not lying:
1)You are being honest with yourself.
2)You are being honest with her.
3)You have maintained your own frame and made the conscious decision to live, die and love by your own actions and behavior. That's pretty impressive as far as I'm concerned.

 

[bukowski_merit]

Like I said, I don't lie to my girlfriends and to my FBs I put my cards on the table, but I find that FBS will blow out, leave, jump ship eventually. This is why you have to have multiple plates. If you do not lie, and do not go in an exclusive relationship SHE WILL LEAVE at some point. It may be a couple of months, it may be a couple of years, but it will happen.

There's not a whole lot you can do about a FB REALLY wanting to leave; lying is not going to preserve much. If she's pushing for exclusivity and someone lies and gives it to her (while still seeing other women behind her back) - he's 1) Going to lose a lot of passion from the FB turned GF for giving in to her pressure to have a real relationship.... 2) Going to look like a fool when she catches him cheating... Why? Because it's weak to tell a woman what she wants to hear to keep her in your life. It's weak because it shows fear that you don't believe you can keep her in your life without being fake.

Besides that, it's incredible hard to maintain lies. At least for me it is.

I don't have any real need to hold on to a FB for longer than she wishes to stay with me (and letting them go easily ensures they will be back in between bfs).

You need to do a bit more reading because you missed something. He advocates selling them a dream. What do you call selling someone a dream that you have no promise of delivering on?

Trust me, if I talk to a 28 year old woman who is looking for marriage and kids and I tell her I just want to "see where it goes" or "I'm looking for the one" to her that means, he might want to get serious at some point. I know that's a damn lie. Its a misleading statement. All I want to do is bang and then go back to my cave.

Are you talking about a ONS or a FB?

To me, those are not harmful. Those are what women sometimes need to hear in order to put down their s!ut defenses. There's no way she can ever know if you mean it or not, unless you flat out tell her in some ragefilled argument that you never did.

Let's look at each one though:

"I just want to see where it goes" - I can't figure any way that that may be a lie. It's a pretty cliche answer to "where is this going?" though. Not something i'd ever use. But if you're using it with no intention of taking it any further than FB - i don't see anything wrong with that. And reality is - you realistically COULD fall in love and live happily ever; however small that chance is - there still is one.

But, for me conversations like these go:

woman: where is this going?
me: to the kitchen to get me a beer! (then i don't talk to her about anything other than her going and getting me a beer.)

woman: i don't think i can do this anymore, i need a boyfriend, not a player.
me: come on. (stand up; grab her hand)
woman: where are we going?
me: to the bar, we're going to find you a nice guy; i am too much of a bad guy for you. (of course she won't come with me instead she'll sit around pouting)

2 week ago example
woman: after tonight, we shouldn't see each other anymore. I just don't see this going anywhere.
me: ok, do me a favor.
woman:what?
me: delete my number from your phone, i don't want you drunk dialing me. (of course she doesn't and fights with me when i try to. and it hasn't ended.)

I don't fear anger from women, i don't fear frustration from them, i don't fear them leaving me, i don't fear them period....

Without that fear - i don't have a reason to lie. I'm not put in positions where i have to lie. If they leave me - so be it. But that happens a lot less than you can imagine for not giving in. Women normally leave when they find another man who's willing to settle down; not just because you won't.... If they get angry - so? I like when a woman gets angry; good sex follows.


---
"I'm looking for the one" - Ok, this is a good bit more deceptive than the one above.

That is sub-communicating to them that they may be the one, but again - it's not so much that a woman actually wants your balls. She just doesn't want to feel like a worthless s!ut.

I can see how this would be perceived as a lie, but not anything that can blow up in your face and make you look weak.

It's not on the same level as lies about other women, income, life goals, etc.

And again - i don't think most women will believe a guy who they know is good with women when they say such things. But they use it to justify spreading their legs for him.

my .02

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

Listen, if you have your own opinion about lying to women, then so be it. You do it your way, and I'll do it my own way.

But... you're not not leaving it to an opinion. You're JUDGING.

You have your own system of values, that's fine.

Don't impose your system of values of me, and tell me you're a real man because you're "honest" with women.

You might think you're a real man. I think you're a weak symp that was programmed by your mommy.

You might think I'm pathetic. I think I'm reversing the game on woman and giving what I get.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

I don't lie because i don't have to. I just don't answer questions i don't want to answer, and the women have to deal with that.

I disagree with the idea that that is lying.

If a woman says, "did you have $ex with her?"
and i say, "no" (when i did) - that is lying.

If she says, "did you have $ex with her?"
and i say nothing (except maybe smile at her like, "**** you for asking that"), or, "that's none of your business" - that is not lying.

It's not even bending the truth. It's just the frame i carry.

If we're talking about lying to some ONS - then yeah, i don't give a sh!t - do whatever then. But i choose not to lie to women i have extended relationships with because that sh!t will just blow up in your face and make you look weak in the end.



I also don't care what women know for the most part. "Yeah, i fvck a lot of women. Yeah, i don't make a lot of money. No, i don't have any ambitions to change that. Yeah, i wanted to live in the expensive party part of town, so i live in a very small 1BR so i can afford it. No, i don't buy women meals or drinks - yeah, they buy them for me. No, i won't say i love you. No, i am not having kids. No, i am not getting married. Yes, im just going to fvck many more women until i can't anymore then die...

Now come fix me b!tch! Come try... you won't be the first... or the last..."



And Asian - i've read a lot of your idols work and listen to his podcasts... i've NEVER heard him endorsing lying.... I've heard him endorsing being a real man and saying what ever the fvck you feel like saying and not giving a sh!t what a b!tch thinks.... But that's not quite the same as what you're advocating... You just developed this amazing system on your own?

Case closed.

 

[Warrior74]

There's not a whole lot you can do about a FB REALLY wanting to leave; lying is not going to preserve much. If she's pushing for exclusivity and someone lies and gives it to her (while still seeing other women behind her back) - he's 1) Going to lose a lot of passion from the FB turned GF for giving in to her pressure to have a real relationship.... 2) Going to look like a fool when she catches him cheating... Why? Because it's weak to tell a woman what she wants to hear to keep her in your life. It's weak because it shows fear that you don't believe you can keep her in your life without being fake.

Besides that, it's incredible hard to maintain lies. At least for me it is.

I don't have any real need to hold on to a FB for longer than she wishes to stay with me (and letting them go easily ensures they will be back in between bfs).







Are you talking about a ONS or a FB?

To me, those are not harmful. Those are what women sometimes need to hear in order to put down their s!ut defenses. There's no way she can ever know if you mean it or not, unless you flat out tell her in some ragefilled argument that you never did.

Let's look at each one though:

"I just want to see where it goes" - I can't figure any way that that may be a lie. It's a pretty cliche answer to "where is this going?" though. Not something i'd ever use. But if you're using it with no intention of taking it any further than FB - i don't see anything wrong with that. And reality is - you realistically COULD fall in love and live happily ever; however small that chance is - there still is one.

But, for me conversations like these go:

woman: where is this going?
me: to the kitchen to get me a beer! (then i don't talk to her about anything other than her going and getting me a beer.)

woman: i don't think i can do this anymore, i need a boyfriend, not a player.
me: come on. (stand up; grab her hand)
woman: where are we going?
me: to the bar, we're going to find you a nice guy; i am too much of a bad guy for you. (of course she won't come with me instead she'll sit around pouting)

2 week ago example
woman: after tonight, we shouldn't see each other anymore. I just don't see this going anywhere.
me: ok, do me a favor.
woman:what?
me: delete my number from your phone, i don't want you drunk dialing me. (of course she doesn't and fights with me when i try to. and it hasn't ended.)

I don't fear anger from women, i don't fear frustration from them, i don't fear them leaving me, i don't fear them period....

Without that fear - i don't have a reason to lie. I'm not put in positions where i have to lie. If they leave me - so be it. But that happens a lot less than you can imagine for not giving in. Women normally leave when they find another man who's willing to settle down; not just because you won't.... If they get angry - so? I like when a woman gets angry; good sex follows.


---
"I'm looking for the one" - Ok, this is a good bit more deceptive than the one above.

That is sub-communicating to them that they may be the one, but again - it's not so much that a woman actually wants your balls. She just doesn't want to feel like a worthless s!ut.

I can see how this would be perceived as a lie, but not anything that can blow up in your face and make you look weak.

It's not on the same level as lies about other women, income, life goals, etc.

And again - i don't think most women will believe a guy who they know is good with women when they say such things. But they use it to justify spreading their legs for him.

my .02

You nailed it. FEAR is the reason most men lie. But then again Fear is why most men come here in the first place.

Your post way more intelligent and informative to a noob than just "lying to women is wrooooong!, reeeeeeal men don't lie". You gave a real explanation, not an emotional reaction. I understand more of your mindset and values. Good post. This is how you have a discussion gentlemen.

 

[TheAsianLoverReturns]

I disagree with that. When I was a nice guy, I always told the truth to women. And I was coming from a place of fear, so I was always worried I would LOSE her.

Now I don't give a sh*t. Women are easily replaceable. They have no problem lying to me, so I do the same. Eye for an eye.

 

[5string]

Listen, if you have your own opinion about lying to women, then so be it. You do it your way, and I'll do it my own way.

But... you're not not leaving it to an opinion. You're JUDGING.

You have your own system of values, that's fine.

Don't impose your system of values of me, and tell me you're a real man because you're "honest" with women.

You might think you're a real man. I think you're a weak symp that was programmed by your mommy.

You might think I'm pathetic. I think I'm reversing the game on woman and giving what I get.

Asian, what you do is your business. I'm ok with that. I stated what my opinion was. It's that simple. We listen to you, you listen to others. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. Lastly it would be a good thing if you would refrain from the name calling and personal insults.

 

[joe henny]

I disagree with that. When I was a nice guy, I always told the truth to women. And I was coming from a place of fear, so I was always worried I would LOSE her.

Now I don't give a sh*t. Women are easily replaceable. They have no problem lying to me, so I do the same. Eye for an eye.

You guys on this board are ridiculous. "I don't lie I just smile when she asks if I had sex with her" Wtf!? Either way your messing around with more than one woman so do you really think their is a difference if I lie and say no. Either way we are doing the same thing....GET REAL YOU CHUMPS

Boxer Mack you have to realize, some people will never unplug from the matrix. Fvck them, we took the red pill and we enjoy the real world. Where we can bend the rules

 

[bukowski_merit]

You nailed it. FEAR is the reason most men lie. But then again Fear is why most men come here in the first place.

Yeah, fear is a huge problem, yet, it's rarely talked about. I mean people talk about how you shouldn't have a, "fear of loss" - but there's so many fears beyond that. Most men like feeling comfortable and will do anything to avoid discomfort (lie, let women talk to them however they want, do what they say, etc.) And then they wonder where the passion went...

Your post way more intelligent and informative to a noob than just "lying to women is wrooooong!, reeeeeeal men don't lie". You gave a real explanation, not an emotional reaction. I understand more of your mindset and values. Good post. This is how you have a discussion gentlemen.

Yeah, im not making judgment from a moral standpoint. In fact, i have horrible morals and would be dumb to pass judgment in that way... I've fvcked more taken women in my lifetime than i've fvcked single women. I've done some very HORRIBLE things to women...

My stance on not lying is purely strategic. Purely from leading and keeping the frame that i don't have to tell women sh!t that i don't want to.

And likewise on the "this is how you have a discussion" part. This board is full of so many flame wars these days - instead of real discussions - that i don't know how a "noob" can ever learn anything....


---

Now I don't give a sh*t. Women are easily replaceable. They have no problem lying to me, so I do the same. Eye for an eye.

Are you more into One night stands, fvck buddies, or long term relationships? One night stands - lying isn't a thing. Fvck buddies - you can get away with almost as easy. But for long term relationships - people are going to have serious problems if it's built on lies. Especially if they want to continue to be players behind their woman's back.

Again, this is not a judgment call (in the moral sense) - it's just unnecessary and too much extra work (keeping up with the lies).

Like you say in your video - women learn how to manipulate early on. Many men never learn how to do that at all. Going up against a professional manipulator (woman) with your own manipulation - is not a winnable game. Women are a lot better at that sh!t than most men are or ever will be.

And what are women lying to you specifically about? The only example you gave in your video was your client saying she didn't have an online dating profile.

---

Asian, what you do is your business. I'm ok with that. I stated what my opinion was. It's that simple. We listen to you, you listen to others. Sometimes we agree and sometimes we don't. Lastly it would be a good thing if you would refrain from the name calling and personal insults.

I agree.

---

You guys on this board are ridiculous. "I don't lie I just smile when she asks if I had sex with her" Wtf!?

Yes, just smiling but not on some goofy smile like something is funny (which is what you are probably thinking). Instead, smiling like, "do you really think I am going to answer that? fvck you for even thinking i was going to."

It's not as hard as it sounds.

My whole point is that any question that a woman may ask me that i would feel the need to lie about - can be dealt with in other ways besides giving an answer. In fact, a question that is worth lying to is normally a double bind question (a question that will damage attraction n matter how you answer). If i AM going to lie it's going to be so outrageous that she will know it.

Woman: Did you sleep with her?
Me: Nope.... But i slept with her, her, her, her, her and.... all 3 of them (pointing to different women in the bar).

I just told her "fvck you" without saying it.

Either way your messing around with more than one woman so do you really think their is a difference if I lie and say no. Either way we are doing the same thing....GET REAL YOU CHUMPS

Is there a difference between saying "no" and not answering the question?

Yes, saying "no" to that question is the absolute worst way you can answer that question. Lie or not.

Even if you're being truthful by saying "no" - lying and saying "yes, i am messing around with other women" is a million times better! (not as good as not answering the question at all though)

Do you really want to tell a woman you're not dating that you have no other romantic interests?

That's what im trying to get at here! Everyone is focused on lying vs. not lying. TO me questions like these are the ones guys lie about:

- Are you sleeping with other women?
- Did you sleep with her?
- Do you love me?
- Do you see yourself with me in the future?
- Was she better than me in bed?
- Are we girlfriend and boyfriend?
- Are you still going out and partying?
- Do these jeans make my butt look big?
- etc. etc. etc.

And all of those types of questions are horrible questions to answer in a serious manner either way! Double binds!

 

[joe henny]

Yeah, fear is a huge problem, yet, it's rarely talked about. I mean people talk about how you shouldn't have a, "fear of loss" - but there's so many fears beyond that. Most men like feeling comfortable and will do anything to avoid discomfort (lie, let women talk to them however they want, do what they say, etc.) And then they wonder where the passion went...





Yes, just smiling but not on some goofy smile like something is funny (which is what you are probably thinking). Instead, smiling like, "do you really think I am going to answer that? fvck you for even thinking i was going to."

It's not as hard as it sounds.

My whole point is that any question that a woman may ask me that i would feel the need to lie about - can be dealt with in other ways besides giving an answer. In fact, a question that is worth lying to is normally a double bind question (a question that will damage attraction n matter how you answer). If i AM going to lie it's going to be so outrageous that she will know it.

Woman: Did you sleep with her?
Me: Nope.... But i slept with her, her, her, her, her and.... all 3 of them (pointing to different women in the bar).

I just told her "fvck you" without saying it.

Do you really want to tell a woman you're not dating that you have no other romantic interests?

!

Okay, I understand what your trying to get at. Lol at the I just told her fvck u part. In a longterm relationship Lying would be bad, I'm mainly talking about one night stands and short term fvck buddies. I use to tell them the truth but after awhile they get tired and blow out. So now I lie unless I think she can handle the truth. Just my style of game.

 

[bigjohnson]

In other breaking news, water is suspected to still be wet!

 

[Alien]

Lying is like shouting. If you have to do it with women then you are doing something wrong. But what is "wrong"? Who defines what is wrong, who defines what is a man?

I try not to lie to my friends. Thats all. Parents, women, buddies,... they can become friends, but by definition are not.

 

[Alien]

Woman: Did you sleep with her?
Me: Nope.... But i slept with her, her, her, her, her and.... all 3 of them (pointing to different women in the bar).

I just told her "fvck you" without saying it.

Hey! Thats how everyone should manage these questions.

- Are you sleeping with other women?
- Did you sleep with her?
- Do you love me?
- Do you see yourself with me in the future?
- Was she better than me in bed?
- Are we girlfriend and boyfriend?
- Are you still going out and partying?
- Do these jeans make my butt look big?
- etc. etc. etc.

And all of those types of questions are horrible questions to answer in a serious manner either way! Double binds!

My default answer to these: "I`ll tell you next year."
...which means fvck you

 

[Solomon]

I just tell these broads what they wanna "hear"