You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.
Attraction runs on a clock.
She flirted for weeks. Touched your arm. Found reasons to be alone with you. And you were careful. Respectful. Waiting for the right moment.
The moment had a shelf life. It expired around month two, and by the time you asked her out, she'd quietly filed you under "little brother."
One of the hardest lessons inside the 22 Rules: women rarely wait. Interest either grows or it decays, and nothing decays it faster than a man who never moves.
Make the move while she's still inventing reasons to be near you.
You've said it a hundred times. Maybe a thousand. And every time you say it, you train your brain to freeze the next time she walks into the room.
Leagues are a myth invented by guys who are scared of women.
She's a person. She has bad breath in the morning. She picks songs she can't sing in the shower. She overthinks her own texts.
Walk over. Say something. The league dissolves the second you open your mouth.
To be fair, we can't generalize this as a sign of high interest always. But it does tell that a girl is sure of herself based on the text she received.Tomo said:What if she rarely initiates but will literally reply within the minute when you message her?
This.asa_don said:yes, interested women will initiate and some women will just reply to be nice, if you're getting back boring or one word texts, she really isnt interested.
asa_don said:yes, interested women will initiate and some women will just reply to be nice, if you're getting back boring or one word texts, she really isnt interested.
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
THIS. Repped except for the last line only for the fact that my Hi's are usually followed with a paragraph if I don't respond.Bayne05 said:If she likes you she'll Always text first and she'll reply instantly to your texts even if you take forever to reply to hers. Her texts will be more enthusiastic and include a lot of smiley faces and exclamation marks. A simple "Hi" just means she's bored, IL is low
Sofomore said:There are no hard and fast rules for this. Each girl is different.
This sh!t is not black and white.
Did you ever give her the opportunity to initiate?My ex of 2.5 years NEVER initiated contact before we started getting serious. I had to pretty much every time, but her IL was 110%. The look on her face when I ended it with her was heartbreaking because she loved me so much.
Hah good point on the b!tch who initiates everything. I do think it's better for the man to be the initiator of action (dates, sex). The OP was about initiating conversation however. There is absolutely no reason why any man should be initiating all the conversation, that's a woman's domain. I do agree that for more attractive women it's gonna take more effort to get the hooked. Eventually though the dynamic needs to be switched and she needs to be the one chasing after you. It all goes back to women wanting a man of higher value than them. A person of higher value is the one being pursued not the pursuer. As outrageous as this may sound, I think there's such a thing as a woman being too submissive. I don't want a grown child that relies on me for everything. I want a grown ass woman who still defers to me but knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. That type of woman isn't afraid to initiate.I also think a woman's FEAR and INSECURITY is men's GREATEST ENEMY. So if a woman has a high level of this sh!t, she ain't gonna initiate texting you no matter what. And I would think the amount of women who have DEEP SEATED emotional issues such as these is in the majority out there (75%+). If not, you end up with a highly masculinezed B!TCH who initiates everything and stomps you down like a worm in the end.
I have the theory at this point that the HIGHER HB and HOTTER the woman, the more work you are gonna have to put in initiating things with her. This is rather a basic logical deduction - she's got more fish in the ocean to pick from, and throw back if the fish stinks to her. Also the personality and nature of the woman comes into play (shy, b!tch, HO, etc).
THIS IS GOLD.JoeMarron said:As outrageous as this may sound, I think there's such a thing as a woman being too submissive. I don't want a grown child that relies on me for everything. I want a grown ass woman who still defers to me but knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. That type of woman isn't afraid to initiate.
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
I agree with the end because I want mutual reciprocation, I do not want to literally initiate everything because I want a woman that is gonna be my partner, not a poodle, I don't want to feel like she is just along for the ride, because I obviously I don't want to do all the workJoeMarron said:I just don't see a chick with high self esteem and confidence being too scared or unwilling to initiate anything. Even if I did find a chick who was very interested but wouldn't initiate I wouldn't bother with her. Why should I spend all this effort initiating things with her? She's a big girl, she can put in some of the work. Plus it's just not a good place for a man to be in, especially newcomers. A man who's doing all the initiating is a man who's doing alot of investing. The more we invest in someone the more we like them. Naturally if this keeps up he's going to be more into her than she is him and we all know that isn't an ideal spot to be in.
Did you ever give her the opportunity to initiate?
Hah good point on the b!tch who initiates everything. I do think it's better for the man to be the initiator of action (dates, sex). The OP was about initiating conversation however. There is absolutely no reason why any man should be initiating all the conversation, that's a woman's domain. I do agree that for more attractive women it's gonna take more effort to get the hooked. Eventually though the dynamic needs to be switched and she needs to be the one chasing after you. It all goes back to women wanting a man of higher value than them. A person of higher value is the one being pursued not the pursuer. As outrageous as this may sound, I think there's such a thing as a woman being too submissive. I don't want a grown child that relies on me for everything. I want a grown ass woman who still defers to me but knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it. That type of woman isn't afraid to initiate.
Being a Man, as in doing what you want and when you want, it gives you control, me personally, I wouldn't see it as a chore or burden if it was impossible to come across as desperate or needy, trying too hard, unfortunately that line is very easy to crossSofomore said:@Joe I agree with the initiating conversation. In my case I hit her up to hang out. No texting for conversation bs.
After a month of seeing that she didn't initiate hanging out, but EVERY time I hit her up to meet an her agreeing, I knew the IL was high enough to initiate almost everything. I grabbed her hand and brought her along into my life.
Too many guys get caught up in counting numbers. "She texted me three times and I texted her 4, better back off so her IL goes up"<--- this mindset gets you nowhere.
Just be a man and do whatever you want. If she's down for the ride, awesome, you found a girl that wants to be in YOUR reality.
Ah I see. I still would like a woman to at least do some of the date initiating but I can see how your situation would be enjoyable. I definitely wouldn't advocate being obsessive about who's initiating more. It's easy to have a general idea of when you're texting too much without making spreadsheets to determine the exact number. I think doing whatever we want can lead to a bad place. There have been plenty of times where I wanted to say things to a woman that ultimately would've just made me look like a needy supplicating pvssy. Hell sometimes I actually went ahead and said it anyways with horrible results.Sofomore said:@Joe I agree with the initiating conversation. In my case I hit her up to hang out. No texting for conversation bs.
After a month of seeing that she didn't initiate hanging out, but EVERY time I hit her up to meet an her agreeing, I knew the IL was high enough to initiate almost everything. I grabbed her hand and brought her along into my life.
Too many guys get caught up in counting numbers. "She texted me three times and I texted her 4, better back off so her IL goes up"<--- this mindset gets you nowhere.
Just be a man and do whatever you want. If she's down for the ride, awesome, you found a girl that wants to be in YOUR reality.
Exactly. The dude that just broke up with his BDP ex really wants to call her up and tell her how much he loves her and would do anything to get her back. A certain degree of control over our emotions is necessary when dealing with women.Being a Man, as in doing what you want and when you want, it gives you control, me personally, I wouldn't see it as a chore or burden if it was impossible to come across as desperate or needy, trying too hard, unfortunately that line is very easy to cross
Sofomore said:There are no hard and fast rules for this. Each girl is different. I swear some of you inexperienced guys give out sh!tty advice with no evidence to back it up.
My ex of 2.5 years NEVER initiated contact before we started getting serious. I had to pretty much every time, but her IL was 110%. The look on her face when I ended it with her was heartbreaking because she loved me so much.
Stop preaching your bs answers. There isn't a rule for this because every woman is different. Sometimes I feel like the keyboard jockeys on this site just read a bunch of info and have no real experience with women. Then "preach" to their fellow jockeys.
Once you guys actually get out there you will see this sh!t is not black and white.
You asked her if she wanted to grab coffee. Then you asked if the time worked. Then you asked if the place was okay. Then you asked if she'd prefer tea.
Four questions. Four chances for her to say no. Four signals that you're terrified of making a decision.
Plan it. Pick the place. Pick the time. Tell her where to meet you. She'll either show up or she won't.
Either way, you look like a man instead of a scared little boy.