Why would anyone join Tinder just to make friends?

[corrector]

A lot easier.

She wouldn't even have to advertise sex. If she so much as advertised she'd go on a dinner date for $300, my nervousness of asking her out would evaporate.

And here's the real kicker: If this hypothetical scenario we're describing were to happen, there's a high chance sex would occur out of her own desire. Because my pressure to impress her would go away (which would end up making me act more impressive)

The scenario I just described is really no different than expensive dinner dates where the man drops $300 on the dinner bill (and ends up getting sex). The only difference is that in this scenario, the woman is honest upfront about wanting you to drop $300 on her.

Perhaps you can ask her out on a dinner date. Mention a few trendy restuarants that she knows will be expensive, and ask her out there.

Pretend she is advertising it (ie in your head) and try and ask her out that way. Do you think that would be a workaround in this case?

If she rejects you, then she'll miss out on an expensive dinner date and you'll save your $ 300 so it won't feel as bad and it would be her loss, right?

 

[GoodMan32]

I saw a self-described autistic girl's profile on Feeld today. It said "no hookups". told you to swipe left if you weren't a radical leftist, and she wants you to spoil her with good food and oil changes, while mentioning that reciprocity=access. She's offering nothing while on a hookup/kink site. Oh, but she is "vanilla with sprinkles" in the bedroom and mentions she has HSV.

I'm pretty sure I came across the same girl's profile on Feeld

To expand upon the general topic of apps, I don't even bother with a mini bio about myself on Feeld. All I do in my Feeld bio is mention my fetish.

I view Feeld as solely an app for fetish play.

Tinder, on the other hand, I treat as a dating app (so I have a mini bio about myself on my Tinder profile)

Perhaps you can ask her out on a dinner date. Mention a few trendy restuarants that she knows will be expensive, and ask her out there.

Pretend she is advertising it (ie in your head) and try and ask her out that way. Do you think that would be a workaround in this case?

If she rejects you, then she'll miss out on an expensive dinner date and you'll save your $ 300 so it won't feel as bad and it would be her loss, right?

I appreciate you trying to help. But no, your idea wouldn't work for me. Pretending she's advertising a $300 dinner date wouldn't change the fact she's not.

It would be more my loss than hers. I'd lose something big: The ability to comfortably work with her.

She wouldn't really lose anything. She could easily find some other man willing to wine and dine her.

I mentioned on a post the other day that I'd rather kiss @BPH than act on a woman's IOIs. I'd go one step further: I'd rather kiss every guy in my office than shoot my shot with my autistic female coworker whose given me IOIs. There are probably 25 men in my office.

Furthermore, I've walked down a dark alley at night in an unfamiliar city. That scared me less than the mere thought of acting on a woman I know's IOIs.

Let that sink in: A skinny White autist (who's never been in a fight in his life) would rather walk down a dark alley at night in an unfamiliar city than shoot his shot with a woman who's given him IOIs. That, combined with the fact I'd rather kiss 25 men than shoot my shot with my female coworker, speaks volumes of how deep my phobia runs.

Which is why it's preposterous how some posters portray going to the gym as a foolproof solution to my plight.

As it is, I have opportunities. The problem isn't lack of opportunities; the problem is my phobia of pursuing the opportunities I have.

I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility going to the gym might increase my amount of opportunities. But that's not going to do any good for a man with a phobia as severe as mine. All it would mean is I'd have even more opportunities I'm afraid to pursue.

 

[Clockwerk50]

To expand upon the general topic of apps, I don't even bother with a mini bio about myself on Feeld. All I do in my Feeld bio is mention my fetish.

I view Feeld as solely an app for fetish play.

Tinder, on the other hand, I treat as a dating app (so I have a mini bio about myself on my Tinder profile)



I appreciate you trying to help. But no, your idea wouldn't work for me. Pretending she's advertising a $300 dinner date wouldn't change the fact she's not.

It would be more my loss than hers. I'd lose something big: The ability to comfortably work with her.

She wouldn't really lose anything. She could easily find some other man willing to wine and dine her.

I mentioned on a post the other day that I'd rather kiss @BPH than act on a woman's IOIs. I'd go one step further: I'd rather kiss every guy in my office than shoot my shot with my autistic female coworker whose given me IOIs. There are probably 25 men in my office.

Furthermore, I've walked down a dark alley at night in an unfamiliar city. That scared me less than the mere thought of acting on a woman I know's IOIs.

Let that sink in: A skinny White autist (who's never been in a fight in his life) would rather walk down a dark alley at night in an unfamiliar city than shoot his shot with a woman who's given him IOIs. That, combined with the fact I'd rather kiss 25 men than shoot my shot with my female coworker, speaks volumes of how deep my phobia runs.

Which is why it's preposterous how some posters portray going to the gym as a foolproof solution to my plight.

As it is, I have opportunities. The problem isn't lack of opportunities; the problem is my phobia of pursuing the opportunities I have.

I'm willing to acknowledge the possibility going to the gym might increase my amount of opportunities. But that's not going to do any good for a man with a phobia as severe as mine. All it would mean is I'd have even more opportunities I'm afraid to pursue.

1. Since you don't know how to read IOIs, it’s very possible what you’re interpreting as signals are not IOIs at all. There’s no way to confirm unless you ask her out and she accepts. Otherwise, you’re projecting your own hopes and fears onto her behavior. Case in point: a guy on SoSuave worked with a girl for an entire year. He was convinced she liked him since she smiled, laughed, held eye contact, stood near him, all the typical “subtle cues.” He thought she was waiting for him to make a move. When he finally asked her out, she rejected him. One year wasted. He misread everything. https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...r-a-drink-but-she-dodges-the-question.283776/

2. You're being biased and emotional. Your brain is looping because of desire, fear of rejection, and the need for validation. You’re seeing what you want to see. You’re caught in confirmation bias (only noticing what supports your fantasy), emotional reasoning (“I feel like she likes me, so she must”), and avoidance (putting off action by convincing yourself you’re being “smart” or “cautious”). You’re reacting to your inner world, not what’s actually happening.

3. The horse-and-rider analogy explains the relationship between your emotions and your rational mind: the horse is your emotional drive—powerful, energetic, and raw—while the rider is your reason, guiding that energy with judgment and intention. If the rider is too weak, the horse runs wild, leading to impulsive behavior; if the rider is too strong, it suppresses the horse, killing your vitality and masculine presence. Masculine energy is what helps you stay calm, focused, and in control—not by shutting down emotion, but by directing it. And one of the most effective ways to build that energy and presence is by going to the gym.

4. You know this; the gym boosts your attractiveness. You are a 4. If she were really interested, she’d speak the language of certainty, not ambiguity. Something like: “Hey Gooman32, when are you going to stop being so shy and ask me to hang out outside of this place?” That’s how women talk when attraction is undeniable. If you're still stuck decoding "signals," it's not there yet. You need to improve yourself physically until the signals are unmistakable or unnecessary.

5. More trauma dumping Maybe consider making a separate thread for yourself. Like I mentioned before, counselors don’t give you answers, they let you talk so you can figure things out on your own.

 

[GoodMan32]

1. Since you don't know how to read IOIs, it’s very possible what you’re interpreting as signals are not IOIs at all. There’s no way to confirm unless you ask her out and she accepts. Otherwise, you’re projecting your own hopes and fears onto her behavior. Case in point: a guy on SoSuave worked with a girl for an entire year. He was convinced she liked him since she smiled, laughed, held eye contact, stood near him, all the typical “subtle cues.” He thought she was waiting for him to make a move. When he finally asked her out, she rejected him. One year wasted. He misread everything. https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...r-a-drink-but-she-dodges-the-question.283776/

2. You're being biased and emotional. Your brain is looping because of desire, fear of rejection, and the need for validation. You’re seeing what you want to see. You’re caught in confirmation bias (only noticing what supports your fantasy), emotional reasoning (“I feel like she likes me, so she must”), and avoidance (putting off action by convincing yourself you’re being “smart” or “cautious”). You’re reacting to your inner world, not what’s actually happening.

3. The horse-and-rider analogy explains the relationship between your emotions and your rational mind: the horse is your emotional drive—powerful, energetic, and raw—while the rider is your reason, guiding that energy with judgment and intention. If the rider is too weak, the horse runs wild, leading to impulsive behavior; if the rider is too strong, it suppresses the horse, killing your vitality and masculine presence. Masculine energy is what helps you stay calm, focused, and in control—not by shutting down emotion, but by directing it. And one of the most effective ways to build that energy and presence is by going to the gym.

4. You know this; the gym boosts your attractiveness. You are a 4. If she were really interested, she’d speak the language of certainty, not ambiguity. Something like: “Hey Gooman32, when are you going to stop being so shy and ask me to hang out outside of this place?” That’s how women talk when attraction is undeniable. If you're still stuck decoding "signals," it's not there yet. You need to improve yourself physically until the signals are unmistakable or unnecessary.

5. More trauma dumping Maybe consider making a separate thread for yourself. Like I mentioned before, counselors don’t give you answers, they let you talk so you can figure things out on your own.

Ok, I fully admit I might be wrong sometimes about IOIs.

Let's take into account, however, the coworker a few years ago where I heard through the grapevine she was into me.

Additionally, I had a coworker way back when I was 26 where I heard through the grapevine she was into me.

In both of these cases, the coworker never gave any signs (at least not that I picked up on). So I dispute your claim that if there's interest, the woman will say something obvious (even to an autist) like "When are we going to hang out outside of this place?"

 

[Clockwerk50]

Ok, I fully admit I might be wrong sometimes about IOIs.

Let's take into account, however, the coworker a few years ago where I heard through the grapevine she was into me.

Additionally, I had a coworker way back when I was 26 where I heard through the grapevine she was into me.

In both of these cases, the coworker never gave any signs (at least not that I picked up on). So I dispute your claim that if there's interest, the woman will say something obvious (even to an autist) like "When are we going to hang out outside of this place?"

Your examples actually show a hasty generalization fallacy; just because you experienced unclear signals twice doesn’t mean that’s always the case. In reality, as you improve your attractiveness (like by going to the gym), IOIs tend to become clearer and more direct, making it easier to observed and act confidently. It is just logic.

 

[SW15]

1. Since you don't know how to read IOIs, it’s very possible what you’re interpreting as signals are not IOIs at all. There’s no way to confirm unless you ask her out and she accepts. Otherwise, you’re projecting your own hopes and fears onto her behavior. Case in point: a guy on SoSuave worked with a girl for an entire year. He was convinced she liked him since she smiled, laughed, held eye contact, stood near him, all the typical “subtle cues.” He thought she was waiting for him to make a move. When he finally asked her out, she rejected him. One year wasted. He misread everything. https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...r-a-drink-but-she-dodges-the-question.283776/

IOIs can be difficult to read. As @MatureDJ says, they are uncommon for normie tier (aka mid-tier) men.

Because IOIs are uncommon for mid-tier men (men rating around the 45th - 75th percentile in looks), men tend to overrate the IOIs that they might receive. This is a common issue for both neurotypical men and for autistic men.

Given the OP's rating from Wheat Waffles of a 4, it is not likely that he receives IOIs commonly. It is likely that he has misread mostly every social cue and most possible IOIs that he may or may not have received since the mid to late 2000s (when he reached sexual maturity).

 

[GoodMan32]

IOIs can be difficult to read. As @MatureDJ says, they are uncommon for normie tier (aka mid-tier) men.

Because IOIs are uncommon for mid-tier men (men rating around the 45th - 75th percentile in looks), men tend to overrate the IOIs that they might receive. This is a common issue for both neurotypical men and for autistic men.

Given the OP's rating from Wheat Waffles of a 4, it is not likely that he receives IOIs commonly. It is likely that he has misread mostly every social cue and most possible IOIs that he may or may not have received since the mid to late 2000s (when he reached sexual maturity).

I've heard 2 different schools of thought. I've totally heard what you're saying (men, NT and autists alike, tend to overinflate any perceived IOIs, imagining interest where none exists)

On the flipside, I've also heard that IOIs often go undetected by men (even NT men). Men, even NT men, simply don't have as good of social skills as the average woman.

My counselor says that's why apps are popular even with NT men (no need to worry about IOIs on apps)

I get what @Clockwerk50 is saying about how the 2 former coworkers I found out through the grapevine were into me is a sample size of only 2 (and we're unable to draw any conclusions)

Taking the bigger picture into account, however, we need to consider some other facts:

• 12 members of the opposite sex thought I was worthy of having free sex with (I say 12 because, even though I've only had 9 free partners, there were 2 instances where a nude woman was in my bed after a 1st date, only for me to decline the sex because of my pregnancy phobia. Additionally, my 8 month girlfriend I had shortly after college wanted sex. I declined for multiple reasons, one of which being my pregnancy phobia)

• Additionally, there were members of the opposite sex (I don't recall the exact count offhand) who, even though they never offered me sex, thought I was at least worthy of going on date(s) with. That right there is some level of interest.

• Furthermore, the 2 past coworkers who were into me (the ones I found out about through the grapevine) are simply the only 2 where I indisputably know for a fact they were into me. Most the time when a female coworker is into a male coworker, the news isn't going to travel back to him through the grapevine. There's no telling how many female coworkers through the years were into me without the news traveling back to me.

Yet taking all this into account, you expect me to believe I've received zero (or practically zero) IOIs in the past 18 years or so?

 

[GoodMan32]

To drift back to the initial topic of the thread (Tinder), I made an interesting observation while swiping on Tinder today.

I came across a 21 year old White woman whose profile said "Stay back, evil White men. I'm trying to quit you."

It was said earlier in the thread that White men really have to try to be incels. I disagree. Even though I haven't come across any other profiles on Tinder specifically excluding White men, her sentiment is not an isolated incident. It's becoming increasingly common for self-hating young White girls to exclude us.

If even a lot of our own women exclude us, is it really any surprise a lot of White men have a hard time getting a woman?

 

[CornbreadFed]

IOIs are just another word for being too scared to approach.

 

[SW15]

IOIs are just another word for being too scared to approach.

The IOI has been fading for a long time. A number of technologies have contributed to the decline of the IOI, including Tinder and other dating apps. Smartphones and social media technologies have also contributed to the decline of the IOI.

In the early 2010s, I moved to a new city without a girlfriend. I also did the same thing in 2005 upon college graduation. I received far fewer IOIs in the early 2010s (my late 20s, my near peak SMV) than at 22 when I first graduated college. My weight and physique had minimally changed during that time period. My conclusion at that time is that women were becoming more self-absorbed as they immersed themselves into the technologies of online dating (this was happening right at the end of the website era/beginning of swipe app era), earbuds/headphones/digital music, and social media. This was causing Millennials to have worse social skills. I was making this observation in the early 2010s, before Generation Z arrived in the mating environment.

Since I made this initial observation, the trends I observed have even grown. Generation Z has even worse social skills due to technologies than Millennials. A good portion of Millennials had to wait until after their 18th birthday to have experiences with the social skill killing technologies. Gen Z had them in elementary school.

I disagree that IOIs are strongly related to being too scared to approach. Approaching strangers in person is inefficient. Seeking IOIs are a way to reduce rejections on in-person approaches.

Many people prefer the illusion of efficiency (for mid-tier and lower men) that's created with swipe apps. It feels productive to swipe on hundreds or thousands of women in a short period of time. It can be easier to sit at home in sweatpants with unwashed hair and get a woman to agree to a social outing known as a date from swiping and texting as compared to showering, getting dressed, and talking to women in real life. Many of the dates set up through swipe apps are garbage dates that wouldn't be set up through a real life method, which is why the "one date, no sex, no second date" is the most common outcome from swipe app arranged dates.

The illusion of efficiency for mid-tier and lower men is actual efficiency for upper tier men. Swipe apps and Instagram DMs make getting laid easier than going to nightclubs and seeking pussie for the elite tier men. In 2017, ESPN.com did an article about NBA players getting more sleep on road trips because Tinder and Instagram were making getting pussie far easier for them than going out to nightlife venues to find pussie.

Inside the 'Tinderization' of today's NBA

If you want to know why road teams are winning at historically great levels, take a look inside the NBA's new, tamer social scene.

www.espn.com

Upper tier SMV men (usually men with some strong combination of looks and money) are able to get to sex easier and faster with apps now. In the pre-app and pre-Instagram era, upper tier men had an advantage over mid tier and lower men. In that era, upper tier needed to go out in public and get sex. Now, the sex can be arranged without leaving home and without having to get IOIs in person.

 

[CornbreadFed]

I disagree that IOIs are strongly related to being too scared to approach. Approaching strangers in person is inefficient. Seeking IOIs are a way to reduce rejections on in-person approaches.

I think approaching complete strangers in public is inefficient and not a good idea either. My issue with IOIs applies to environments that don't frown on approaching strangers like an event, bar, and etc. My friends will post up in walls and not do anything because they aren't receiving any "IOIs" or basically girls doing all of the work for them. In addition, girls are designed to react and reciprocate not approach and initiate, so your typical girl is not going to give out any IOIs.

 

[SW15]

I think approaching complete strangers in public is inefficient and not a good idea either.

When a man lacks social circle options, his primary options are...

• Approaching strangers in public places (daygame or nightgame)
• Swipe apps
• DM on social media platforms
• Trying something like weak social circle game like a co-ed sports league or a run/walk club

All of these choices are inefficient for varying reasons. The most effort on these bullet points tends to go to swipe apps.

In addition, girls are designed to react and reciprocate not approach and initiate, so your typical girl is not going to give out any IOIs.

The typical female isn't going to give IOIs to men, except for the highest tier SMV men.