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Why the Scarcity Mindset is the worst thing a man can catch

Dr.Suave

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Water seeks its own level. If a man is not pulling what he wants he has 3 options:

1. Take stock objectively and level up himself
2. Take stock objectively and accept the options he does have
3. Leave the game entirely
I mostly agree with this but I have a bit of a problem (or problems) with the second one: He cant just accept the options he does have if they dont even pass the boner test, they wouldnt be able to have sex even if he wanted to. For a woman its different, she can just open her legs and that´s it. But let´s suppose he can get an erection even if he is not attracted to them, so he accepts the options he does have. If all he wants is a lay (with a woman he doesnt even like), well, mission accomplished, I guess. I dont see the point but if that´s what he wanted, good for him.

But If he´s going for LTR-marriage and he´s not happy with his options atm, he shouldn´t accept those options. He will be miserable in the long run if he does.

Better to be patient and a better girl who fancies him could just be right around the corner. Improbable? Yes, but not impossible, unless he wasnt available because he previously accepted the options he did have at the moment.
 

BeExcellent

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I mostly agree with this but I have a bit of a problem (or problems) with the second one: He cant just accept the options he does have if they dont even pass the boner test, they wouldnt be able to have sex even if he wanted to. For a woman its different, she can just open her legs and that´s it. But let´s suppose he can get an erection even if he is not attracted to them, so he accepts the options he does have. If all he wants is a lay (with a woman he doesnt even like), well, mission accomplished, I guess. I dont see the point but if that´s what he wanted, good for him.

But If he´s going for LTR-marriage and he´s not happy with his options atm, he shouldn´t accept those options. He will be miserable in the long run if he does.

Better to be patient and a better girl who fancies him could just be right around the corner. Improbable? Yes, but not impossible, unless he wasnt available because he previously accepted the options he did have at the moment.
Women don’t just open their legs. There must be desire such to get the juices flowing.

My point is that Victoria’s Secret models are not going to fall into average Joe’s lap, but that is what he fantasizes about, sometimes to the point of losing touch with the reality of women around him, and that robs him of real life tangible experiences.
 

SW15

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If a man is not pulling what he wants he has 3 options:

1. Take stock objectively and level up himself
2. Take stock objectively and accept the options he does have
3. Leave the game entirely

That’s it really. That is true for any man or woman. Some people have more options. It is what it is.
I have a bit of a problem (or problems) with the second one: He cant just accept the options he does have if they dont even pass the boner test, they wouldnt be able to have sex even if he wanted to. For a woman its different, she can just open her legs and that´s it. But let´s suppose he can get an erection even if he is not attracted to them, so he accepts the options he does have. If all he wants is a lay (with a woman he doesnt even like), well, mission accomplished, I guess. I dont see the point but if that´s what he wanted, good for him.

But If he´s going for LTR-marriage and he´s not happy with his options atm, he shouldn´t accept those options. He will be miserable in the long run if he does.

Better to be patient and a better girl who fancies him could just be right around the corner. Improbable? Yes, but not impossible, unless he wasnt available because he previously accepted the options he did have at the moment.
#2 is the most problematic for a few reasons. You make a good point about the boner test. There's another critical issue there.

#2 assumes a healthy sexual marketplace and marketplace conditions that haven't been reality since circa 1990. Even if a man is willing to do this (and many are), the women that are on his own level want nothing to do with him. Rollo Tomassi has said many times that in the current market, the average woman wants nothing to do with the average man. Feminists have been urging women since the 1970s to "Never Settle". We're now on our at least third generation of women (Gen X, Millennials, new adults of Gen Z) who are so entitled that they believe they deserve nothing but an elite male while bringing little of value besides their vaginas to the equation. It also doesn't help that these average women have elite men sliding into their DMs and in their swipe app queues and swipe app inboxes. The elite men will gladly accept trouble free sex from them but won't commit to them. However, because of feminist influence and the experience of having sex with elite men, average to slightly above average women (4.5-6.5 rating) believe that they are entitled to men that are 8+ on the SMV scale.

With Option #1, men can only level up so much. While it's good to level up and improve in facets in life, outcomes from that will vary. There are men who have gotten bigger muscles and lowered their body fat yet still aren't getting good outcomes with women.

Women don't believe that they have those 3 life paths either. Women intensely dislike Option 2. Why are there tons of women online asking "Where Have All the Good Men Gone?". They only happen to notice that when elite men stop paying attention to them, for either casual sex or committed relationships. When a woman makes a YouTube/TikTok video about the disappearance of good men, or writes some article in an online publication about it, she's not in touch with reality. Those women usually have plenty of options in their swipe app queues or social media DMs.
 

Dr.Suave

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Women don’t just open their legs. There must be desire such to get the juices flowing.

My point is that Victoria’s Secret models are not going to fall into average Joe’s lap
, but that is what he fantasizes about, sometimes to the point of losing touch with the reality of women around him, and that robs him of real life tangible experiences.
What? A lot of women open their legs without desire, for money, for hypergamy, to get back at an ex, for a bunch of reasons. The thing is, anyone can open their legs on command, unless you are a paraplegic or something. Men cant really have a boner on command in the same way anyone can walk, turn your head, sit down, stand up, wave an arm, open your legs, that was my point.

I dont disagree with what you are saying about the Victoria secret model. I dont disagree with most of what you said except one thing: You said men who arent pulling what they want had 3 options, I said I agree except for one of those options and I think I made some valid points as to why.
 
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Dr.Suave

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#2 is the most problematic for a few reasons. You make a good point about the boner test.
Thanks bro, I also thought I made some good points but I dont think @BeExcellent "gets me", even though Im agreeing with most of what she said. You made some great points as well.
 

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Thanks bro, I also thought I made some good points but I dont think @BeExcellent "gets me", even though Im agreeing with most of what she said. You made some great points as well.
I think that @BeExcellent brings a reminder of what Pook that ‘rules’ or ‘guidelines’ are simply models. You absolutely have to have a core understanding and some sort of basis to make decisions, in other words you have to evaluate situations based on something. But not everything is so hard and fast.

For example the advice given with the girl I'm banging like rabbits with now was that I was her backup, the reality was that she wasn’t ready to take an overnight with me (which really, circles back to basic game and I should never have offered) - but I had enough awareness to take my own gut on it as well as just being willing to fail and get experience.

on the other hand, had I stuck to the ‘Manosphere’ and not been a little more open and vulnerable as she recommended, I would have waited too long and she would have been off as an option. She’s old fashioned and I completely understand why for reasons I won’t get into here.

bend, don’t break so to speak. But definitely have a playbook, set of mental models, however you want to put it. You have to be able to compare relatively in the moment, it’s the only way to make good decisions

most of all- have fun!
 
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pipeman84

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the average woman wants nothing to do with the average man.
And the reverse isn't true? Why in the world would a regular Joe want to put up with all the baggage and issues of the average woman just for the chance of some mediocre sex? Is it really worth it when you have all kinds of porn at your fingertips, free? :rolleyes:

the women that are on his own level want nothing to do with him.
Like attracts like, water seeks its own level.... this ancient wisdom is true and immutable, just as gravity.
If a guy thinks he's an 8 yet he doesn't find (or isn't able to hold on to) a female 8 then he most probably made some mistakes in the self assessment...in other words, the packaging might be an 8 but the content is only a 4. o_O Depending on how perceptive the woman is, she could spot it within the first date or after a couple of months.
 

catsmeow2

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had I stuck to the ‘Manosphere’ and not been a little more open and vulnerable as she recommended, I would have waited too long and she would have been off as an option. She’s old fashioned and I completely understand why for reasons I won’t get into here.
I realize your "she" was referring to your girl and not me, however I am glad to see that my words (below quoted from the "need texting advice" thread) had a positive effect around here for a change.

I'm sensing fear in your posts, wtf are you so afraid of?

If all you want is the bang, then my advice is forget about this girl and move on.

But IF you really like this chick and want something more, a bit deeper than merely a bang, another notch, then consider my words, and @Be's, step the hell up and stop being so afraid. Take a damn risk.
IOW, vulnerable. Open up a bit, stop being so guarded, and "gasp" afraid. It's not gonna kill ya as you've just discovered.

Good luck with your girl, at this point I think she is exactly the type of girl you need.
 
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SW15

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And the reverse isn't true? Why in the world would a regular Joe want to put up with all the baggage and issues of the average woman just for the chance of some mediocre sex? Is it really worth it when you have all kinds of porn at your fingertips, free? :rolleyes:
The reverse is not true. Men are extremely thirsty. Men are lacking both sex and emotional intimacy. Male loneliness is a problem too. Porn does not solve a lack of emotional intimacy, female companionship, and the ability to bring a woman to social functions that are likely going to be all couples if the social circle is age 30+.

Men will lower their standards for sex and for the ability to have a girlfriend.
 

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I realize your "she" was referring to your girl and not me, however I am glad to see that my words (below quoted from the "need texting advice" thread) had a positive effect around here for a change.



IOW, vulnerable. Open up a bit, stop being so guarded, and "gasp" afraid. It's not gonna kill ya as you've just discovered.

Good luck with your girl, at this point I think she is exactly the type of girl you need.
I used she twice in that paragraph for different people, I was referring the first time to @BeExcellent
 

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The reverse is not true. Men are extremely thirsty. Men are lacking both sex and emotional intimacy. Male loneliness is a problem too. Porn does not solve a lack of emotional intimacy, female companionship, and the ability to bring a woman to social functions that are likely going to be all couples if the social circle is age 30+.

Men will lower their standards for sex and for the ability to have a girlfriend.
Porn is so, so bad for you. Can’t stress it enough.
 

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I think the Roman story is a good story with a basis in reality.

In that story, Roman's day-to-day activities stink. In terms of his day-to-day life, he's not putting himself around enough women. That's neither a problem with scarcity mentality nor is it a necessarily a problem with being a "nice guy" or beta male.

Roman could be approaching at the grocery store, at the mall, his gym, etc. With daygame, a guy like Roman would need to use multiple forms of it.

You'd also have to consider his social circle. Does he have a local younger sister or local similarly aged female cousins to help him out with introductions? I've known guys with girlfriends who would have been incel/borderline incel without sister introductions. Could he do a weak social circle option and join a co-ed sports league?

A guy like Roman would really need to examine his day-to-day activities and make significant changes. He'd need to run multiple game streams too.
This Roman dude deserves his own thread. I think every man at some point been a Roman. That's when you wake up and decide to do thing differently.

Nevertheless, a Roman type of guy should always be prepared and open to meet women. Chest up, head high. Well dressed and groomed at any time. Be fit. Antennas must be fully operational at all times . Force interactions by going to festivals with a bunch of cool people. Visit other city's and events and be at places where people gather. Play sport in the park with friends. Greet people and do small talk when possible. Ofcourse be active on OLD.

The mythical Chad and Tyrone somehow always manage to be there where all these women are. The Roman type of guy sits at home too much , stuck in his routine and should have a critical look in the mirror and see if he shouldn't say " yes" more often.
 

pipeman84

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The reverse is not true. Men are extremely thirsty. Men are lacking both sex and emotional intimacy. Male loneliness is a problem too. Porn does not solve a lack of emotional intimacy, female companionship, and the ability to bring a woman to social functions that are likely going to be all couples if the social circle is age 30+.
Women are much thirstier (biologically/evolutionary driven) for emotional intimacy than men. So I don't see how women have the upper hand in the dating space ... a theme I've noticed repeatedly in your messages.

Porn is so, so bad for you. Can’t stress it enough.
Well, it depends on the context...if one is in a relationship, I agree that porn is counterproductive. If one is wasting his time and damaging his mental health on dating apps/cold approach in the street/at the mall, then porn is a solution. The guy unloads in a safe and enjoyable manner in the comfort of his own home and on his own timetable spending a fraction of the time he'd otherwise waste on apps/dating that goes nowhere.
 

Pierce.Manhammer

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It has to do with marketplace dynamics truly. In a place that is warmer - think cities in Texas/Arizona/Florida/SoCal there will be more fit women, why? Because it’s warm and you end up wearing skimpier clothing, often these cities also just are fitter and more affluent.

In these areas women tend to adjust their expectations - elsewhere, where a good looking fit woman is an anomaly even 4’s think they’re 9’s. (49’er syndrome)

I’ve seen this as I’ve traveled to the locales listed from my home base for years - where suddenly I go from being London Broil to Filet Mignon for the locals (much higher quality than my home base provides) literally the moment I step off the plane.

Again market economics are at play, things that are plentiful are not as valued.



Ok. Fair. But there ARE women who will take an interest in the guy. Oh wait, he doesn’t like those women?

Beer bellied bald guys or socially awkward incel types are not going to suddenly end up with a Victoria’s Secret model. But that seems to be the expectation around here. That’s the fantasy the adult entertainment industry has successfully sold, and there are many average women who are just as invisible as the average man.

Water seeks its own level. If a man is not pulling what he wants he has 3 options:

1. Take stock objectively and level up himself
2. Take stock objectively and accept the options he does have
3. Leave the game entirely

That’s it really. That is true for any man or woman. Some people have more options. It is what it is.
 

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@Dr.Suave and others: Guys. I’m trying to help here. Seriously.

The single biggest issue with men or women? Not being honest enough or self aware enough of what everyone else around you experiences as objective reality.

Example: I have a girlfriend of many years who lives in another state (one mentioned by @Pierce.Manhammer and I live in another of those states). He is right. There are more fit people who value looking good and have healthy lifestyles. She is 5’9” and I would guess weighs 165. She has a big bust, a pretty face, long healthy hair, and she is witty and intelligent. She is also quite traditional and believes women are supposed to be submissive to the man. She has children at home (ages 10 and 14), is a home owner who is financially self reliant. Her husband cheated with an old high school gf, which facilitated their divorce and he is now married to her.

She is a bit heavy set for her frame & wants a very tall handsome man who is as successful as she is. She is being completely unrealistic. The men she wants can pull thinner, fitter, younger, childless women! So guess what? They don’t pick her, and she turns her nose up at men who do pick her (they are more like her-middle aged, not in great shape, carrying some extra pounds, etc.

If she lost 30-40 pounds the landscape would change immensely for her.

If that is the type man she wants? She’s got to become a better version of herself that will appeal to that type man. Simple. Not easy.

It’s the same for invisible men. You want a certain type woman? You’ve got to honestly take stock and observe who takes an interest in you. And you can’t complain about things you are unwilling or unable to change.

I don’t talk much to my gf I noted above. She is bitter and jealous about men (she thinks my guy is hot), and she doesn’t understand that for years I have made lifestyle choices that allow me to appeal to the sort of man I desire. I don’t over eat, I work out, I go out socially and meet people, etc. My gf is unwilling to make those lifestyle changes. So she goes dateless and sexless. Like some of the men around here.
 

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5). At some point either the guy loses frame/something happens to start the death of the relationship
This is exactly what Corey Wayne says, the guy starts getting complacent, stops being the best option, starts getting needy, Rollo says that too, the burden of performance, we just have to accept it, and keep being the best option, until she's not the best for us.
 

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The other thing that happens to upper tier men in my metro is guys that are 7-9’s in good shape, attractive, smart, successful is that women who are our looks match or even a point lower do not trust us, because they’ve been pumped and dumped so many times by chad/lites.

It just happens, the only way to avoid this is to snag a gal right out of an LTR.
 

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I feel like Roman is a new word to the Sosuave vernacular @sangheilios.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Roman

The everyman who is by all accounts normal, but lacks social interaction with women. He isn't ugly. He isn't poor. He isn't a psychopath. He isn't incompetent. He is normal and is dealing with the typical experiences had by most adult men in the western world. At some point Roman will hopefully remove the wool from his eyes and give himself a kick in the a** to accept the way things are... then adapt and change around them to better serve himself. No one will help Roman but himself. Roman isn't necessarily AFC, Incel, black pill, MGTOW or any variation but he very well could be... All it takes is the desire to change and make a concerted effort to level up and break out of his comfort zone and Roman is no more. Roman exists on the precipice of success and failure in a volatile state teetering between the two. On one side there exists the chump who bemoans how horrible the modern dating world is and gives up in his pursuit of the other sex. The other side accepts the nature of things and embraces reality and faces it head on. He who accepts the trials and tribulations of the modern era with a smile moves to greater things and leaves Romanhood behind.

Roman must recognize and take inventory of himself. What is he good at? What are his skill sets? How does he look? How does he stack up? He must also ask himself with painful honesty, Where do I lack? What don't I have that others do? Am I using my time efficiently? Am I being incongruent with the man I want to become??? And so forth. Inward self reflection is the catalyst for growth and change for better or worse. Perhaps Roman realizes on paper that he isn't so bad? Heck! to some he might even be a catch... but the problem lies in that Roman has no exposure to the opposite sex. He spends his days diligently working his male dominated 9-5 where his social interaction pertains to what Netflix show the guys are watching around the water jug. He then goes about his normal routine and goes to bed only to repeat again the following day. Roman is stuck in the prototypical cycle that many men naturally plug into after academia. He's on board the rat race which only serves to solidify his 'normal-ness'. One day Roman reaches the conclusion that things aren't what they 'should' be and he needs to enact change. (This often comes after trauma or getting his head played with.) It is from that point forward Roman must decide what he wants out of life and what he wants out of women.

Does he want some curvaceous babe who's 'out of his league'? Well then perhaps Roman needs to take inventory and see what he can do to level himself up to get that HB. Learn game? Absolutely! Make more money? Certainly! Money is freedom and with freedom comes options. Put on some muscle and dress to impress? Why wouldn't Roman do that! Such an easy thing like elevating your wardrobe only seeks to serve you and steeling yourself in the gym through iron discipline is a win-win in every facet of a man's life! Roman is surrounded by men all day, yet he wants the ladies. Logistics! First step in getting the ladies is being around them! Breaking down social barriers and being comfortable in one's own skin comes with a concerted effort. If Roman is to overcome his FEELINGS of scarcity he must surround himself in an abundance of women regardless of his relationship with them. He could resort to fishing the OLD pond, but unless he's got the top gear and is a naturally accomplished fisherman he's wasting his time. Roman isn't an angler! He spends his days working in an office! He might catch a couple bluegill, but he wants a trout!

Roman is a muted off white subway tile. You do not notice him, he is not seen. He remains in line with all the other subway tiles firmly held in place by the grout... The grout which holds him in place is society and its expectations of men. Roman decided like many to do what's expected of him and always do the 'right' thing. Roman was sold a lie which led him to where he is now. He "did all the right things", yet he is unhappy and invisible to most people, not only women... Roman is surrounded by numerous other Romans who look just as he does. However, there exist subway tiles with other attributes which make them noticeable. The tile with chips and cracks. The pristine and pearly white tile far out of reach. That one tile with the 7 year old gum stuck to it... There are outliers and there are qualities that set them apart both good and bad.

The man with scorn directed towards women and society feels as though he has been dealt a bad hand is a man easily seen. He wears a proud chip on his shoulder and spends his time whining about how 'bad' things are and personalizes it. This man will place blame on everything and everyone but himself. He 'interprets' statistics and uses them as a tool to illustrate and rationalize the way he feels. A woman of quality and self esteem does not want him. On the other hand we have the man that recognized how things are, accepted them and then adapted to them! This man leveled himself up in every way possible and took the hand he was dealt and owned it. This man views comfort as a cage and is in an ever constant state of self improvement which people find attractive. He is not a whiner.

Roman COULD be any degree of these men.... or he could remain a Roman for the rest of his life. It is up to Roman to think independently, critically and honestly about who he is and who he wants to become. Most men are at some point in their life a Roman and have yet to accept or even acknowledge the burden of performance.

How about a pertinent quote from the greatest Roman from two millennia ago?

“Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one.”
-Marcus Aurelius
 

BadBoy89

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The single biggest issue with men or women? Not being honest enough or self aware enough of what everyone else around you experiences as objective reality.
That is not the biggest issue.

The biggest issue is the sexual revolution. Hot women sleep with the top Alpha Men when they are the most attractive and most fertile in their 20s, and they brutally reject ALL other men. Then when the women are less attractive and less fertile in their 30s, they want the guys who are in their 30s who they rejected in their 20s.

That is the BIGGEST issue.


If that is the type man she wants? She’s got to become a better version of herself that will appeal to that type man. Simple. Not easy.

It’s the same for invisible men. You want a certain type woman? You’ve got to honestly take stock and observe who takes an interest in you. And you can’t complain about things you are unwilling or unable to change.
The problem is you believe men and women think alike and are attracted to the same things. Women don't have to put in 5% of the work men do. Generally, as long as the woman is not overweight, has long hair, no kids, and pre-menopause, and man will either sleep with her or have a relationship with her. It doesn't work the other around. For an average women to have sex with or be in a relationship with a man, she wants alot alot more, and its her preogorative.

You keep mentioning guys want Victoria Secrets models when they are nothing themselves. They don't. Most average guys just want a nice average girl they can get along with and be intimate with, who won't destroy them financially, or abuse them emotionally.

In 2023, most guys have to be SUPERMAN to get an average girl, while most girls who are average can easily get SUPERMAN guy.
 
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