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Why do you think dudes puss out on the pre-nup agreement?

MatureDJ

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This is exactly it. Let's consider the typical guy between ages 25-35 getting married for the first time.

This typical 25-35 year old male has lived in scarcity mode his entire dating life. Yes, he got a long term girlfriend. He might have had a few others before his current fiancé. Getting a girlfriend was an effort for him. If she leaves, he'll have multiple sexless months.

The typical 25-35 year old male marrying a similarly aged woman is more likely than not to get divorced from that woman during the next 20-25 years. There's under a 50% chance that marriage lasts until the 25th anniversary.

He needs a prenup if he has any assets or expects to get any assets during the next 10, 20, or 25 years.



Most people don't take those vows literally or seriously.
The typical male should only have assets that are in an IRA or a house that fully leveraged. And he should get all his toy-buying out of the way.
 

MatureDJ

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In most cases... say you have a mutual fund worth $300K, if you put any more money into that fund while you are married, or move that mutual fund to another account, it then becomes a joint asset.
I'm sure a custodian-to-custodian transfer would keep it separate, but yes, taking the money out and putting it somewhere else would make it commingled.
I had a friend that had a pre-nup. When he married he had his own house, and all his investments were with a financial advisor. His spouse, after they were married, sold his home (which he owned outright), and bought a new one. Moved his assets to another FA firm (from Edward Jones to Northwestern Mutual). He had a pre-nup... but because he sold his house and bought a new one after he was married, the equity in his own house became community property. When he moved his investments to a new company, those became community property. After 18 months of marriage he ended up losing $500k to his former love goddess. On top of that he had to pay her legal bills, basically paying the lawyer that ripped his pre-nup to pieces. Not a bad payday for a former waitress for a year and a half of 'work'.
I'll bet she was super fine. :) In all serious, a man has to have the balls - and realize that because of this balls might not properly drained - to say that he is not selling his existing house. Any non-IRA assets of any size should be put into a trust. Any IRA should be left alone (i.e., no more contributions) and any new contributions done in a new IRA with a completely new custodian.
 

MatureDJ

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This isn’t accurate dude. Each state has their own laws on division of assets, as well as what constitutes marital property, support obligations and the like.

i don’t know what state you are in but as far as mine is concerned, as long as your friend had kept the pre-marital assets in his own name, and made sure that his wife had not updated his premarital property, what he did would not have commingled his funds.

it sounds to me, more so, that your friend didn’t follow the rules of the prenup. It also sounds to me like he had bad financial advice which is not surprising given the two shops you mentioned, which aren’t known for dealing with people with complicated wealth issues.
A lot of states are community-property, which actually makes it easier to prove that pre-marital assets are separate. Of course, post-marital assets are pretty much 50-50.
 

Ricky

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I don't know anyone personally that has a pre-nup. The bias is that someone needs alot of money to have had one, but maybe not.
 

MatureDJ

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Because he is afraid to lose her. Because he doesn't want to deal with the anger and backlash that comes with it.
Or my likely the end to "happy endings" in the bedroom.
One ended our long term relationship because I wouldn't put her name on my house. She claimed she wanted "security". So I told her I would will it to her, that wasn't good enough either.
A man with options would say, "I guess this isn't going to work out".
How it's done in the business world isnt what they consider fair. I'd prefer to play fair, it's just that they don't.

Treat it like you would a business or keep them out of it as much as possible. I definitely don't recommend marriage. I'd never make a 50-50 business deal with someone that didn't bring 50% to the table, but that's how the law works with women and marriage.

If they don't like it and leave, well they showed you their cards and you saved yourself a lot of trouble down the road.
She's bringing 100% of the poontang. :rolleyes:
You can avoid prenups by rolling assets into a trust in someone else's name. She won't be able to get to you.
The trust doesn't have to be someone else's name; it's just a trust.
 
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Divorced w 3

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I don't know anyone personally that has a pre-nup. The bias is that someone needs alot of money to have had one, but maybe not.
Prenups define all the issues that the state doesn’t have sole control over. Child support is not eligible.
 

BadBoy89

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Most women in today's age won't agree to a pre-nup unless there is a huge discrepancy in SMV in the man's favor. A HB 7+ will always have a better financial option to a man (unless he is a multi-millionare) who is demanding a pre-nup. So naturally, most men are not going to want to lose his bride-to-be by insisting on the prenup.
With the ex for 10 years. She wanted to get married. I said “have to sign a prenup”, she flew off the handle. Relationship over.

My ex sister in law murdered my brother. Sold all his assets next day. Cashed out all his investments. Married a 6’1 guy 2 weeks later. Pregnant 3 weeks later. Government 100% on her side.

I don‘t care how young or hot the girl is. She wants to make it “legal? The pre-nup might have to say I am allowed to smack her in the face 2 times a day.

Sorry, little emotional.
 

RickTheToad

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All assets in a trust so it's protected from the State. Waiver of alimony and any ownership in business or real estate currently owned. Divorce, should it happen, must go through mediation or arbitration; not court. She doesn't agree, walk. Been there before, that is what I did and would do again if I did.

Females are a dime a dozen, rebuilding financial security; not always possible.

For retirement, once signing the certificate/license, open up a new Roth IRA, and leave your old one alone. If possible, try to continue to file as single and never transfer funds from the commingled account to your separate personal account.
 

Bible_Belt

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Marriage laws vary a lot by state. I took family law, and one of the points that was stressed about pre nups is that your potential spouse needs to get her own independent attorney to advise her on the agreement before signing it. It's OK if you pay for that attorney, but it can't be your attorney. It's also a good idea to include some meager alimony or support terms in case she doesn't work or have income. Whatever you devise will of course be less generous than the state would mandate, but it helps the agreement not get tossed out altogether.

If you search on Google for "law school family law outline" and your own state, you can read what they teach in school about the topic.
 

Bokanovsky

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Why do you think dudes puss out on the pre-nup agreement? Apparently, most dudes cave. If she says no, why not just say fine, then we're not getting married. She has more to lose then him.
They feel “shame” for not “trusting” their significant other. Or they are afraid to lose what they think is “the one”.
 

radha

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Most women in today's age won't agree to a pre-nup unless there is a huge discrepancy in SMV in the man's favor. A HB 7+ will always have a better financial option to a man (unless he is a multi-millionare) who is demanding a pre-nup. So naturally, most men are not going to want to lose his bride-to-be by insisting on the prenup.
I'm a multi-millionaire and I live in a tax haven so 95% of my friends are also multimillionaires and I'm at the age where many are getting married. All of them have pre-nups and it's just assumed there will be a pre-nup if the man is coming into the marriage with significant assets. Women who have experience dating successful men are aware that pre-nups are standard and aren't surprised or offended when the guy brings it up.
 
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