Princess-Spock
Senior Don Juan
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This is part of one of my posts to a psychology forum, adapted slightly to hopefully provide a little more insight on a common topic around here:
Why do women SEEM to not like nice guys?
Part of it is perception:
A) We get worked up when we see a “nice guy” unattached or dumped, but we don’t BLINK when we see a JERK unattached or dumped, so we end up with the same sort of warped perception that leads doctors and nurses to SWEAR that hospitals are busier during a full moon-that being “a nice guy” means that women won’t want you.
B) We don’t take into account that initial attraction is often based on pure surface flash, which jerks have honed to a science to use as a tool, while nice guys, like non-beautiful women, are less able to generate that immediate surge of excitement.... which means only that women are human with adrenal glands and hormones, NOT that they’re “choosing” jerks over nice guys.
C) We forget that jerks either don’t form relationships or, if they do, they like to do the dumping, and that since nice guys aren’t so quick on the trigger, and may hang around long enough to BE dumped, we associate “getting dumped” with “being a nice guy.”
D) When a man we like and think is "nice" gets dumped, we take his word for it that he's the innocent victim and did no wrong, forgetting that there are 2 sides to every story and that therefore he may have been dumped for bad behavior, being a lousy lover or many other reasons rather than "for dislike of niceness."
Part of it is that when we say “oh, he’s a nice guy,” what we REALLY mean is:
1) “I don’t know him that well, but he ‘seems’ nice.”
We all like to believe that we’re great judges of character, but, let’s face it, ANYONE can make polite conversation with acquaintances, and it doesn’t mean that they’re “nice.” (What do the neighbors and co-workers of serial killers always say? “I can’t believe it-he seemed like such a NICE man.”) There are plenty of rotten people who can be perfectly civil when it suits them, but they are NOT therefore “nice guys” or good relationship choices.
2) “He’s a ‘Yes-Man’”
We generally assume that anyone who agrees (says “yes” to everything), nods and smiles alot is “nice,” but all that REALLY means is that they have NO clue as to how to have real social interaction with anyone. Someone with that big of a lack of people skills does NOT make a good relationship prospect.
3) “He has no particular qualities that stand out.”
When you describe people, you normally say they’re smart, funny, organized, throw a great party, etc.... but, if all you can say about them is that they’re “nice,” it means that they have no virtues that are strong enough to merit mention, and someone like that isn’t likely to be singled out from the herd as a hot prospect.
4) “He’s boring.”
You have nothing really against the guy, he’s not “bad” or irritating or offensive in any way, but you just don’t find him interesting; calling a guy we have nothing against “boring” doesn’t seem right, so we call him “nice.” Who wants to date someone boring?
5) “He’s a follower.”
Everything about him, from his hairstyle, clothes and shoes to the brand of beer the drinks, has been chosen because they’re what most of the other guys have chosen, so that he can fit in. There’s nothing wrong with fitting in, of course.... but, why would someone who blends into a group be singled out by, or seen as a hottie by, a woman?
6) “He’s shy.”
A shy person can be utterly wonderful once you get to know them, but why would anyone of either gender take the time to single out a shy person as a dating prospect?
7) “He’s weak.”
This one can be slippery, because a weak guy can seem like just one of the gang, going along with what the rest of the guys say (because he doesn’t have the backbone to speak up), and the tell-tale signs of weakness are often lost on other men. While the weak guy may be able to GET a woman, he often gets dumped. Why? He’ll be attracted to strong women, who, to feel in control of, he will then manipulate by being passive-aggressive (constantly being late, losing or breaking things, “forgetting” important stuff, lying, being a sneak, etc) until she throws up her hands and kicks him to the curb.
8) “He’s great as a friend but horrible as a significant other.”
This kind of guy may also be able to GET a woman and often get dumped. For example, YOU may not care that your buddy has to have several beers every time you get together, but an alcoholic, even a charming one, is NOT a valid relationship prospect. YOU won’t care that he has mold growing in his bathtub and on the mountain of unwashed dishes in the sink, but a woman will NOT see The Mold King as a hot sexual prospect, much less a wise relationship choice.
9) “He really IS nice, sweet, and sensitive, BUT......”
a) “His looks are unappealing.”
People of both genders are influenced by looks; a man who is fat, homely, greasy-haired or with an affinity for wearing plaids and stripes together will NOT be a woman’s first choice.
b) “He lives at home with his mommy.”
Few women want a man who’s a momma’s boy or incapable of supporting himself.
c) “He works happily in the ‘pizza transportation’ field.”
Women often eagerly go for men who are “starving artists,” and understand that a student may only work part-time, but otherwise they expect a man to have a real job and adult ambitions.
d) “The only thing he’d have in common with most women is sex.”
Some women LOVE sports, video games and drinking beer; the rest won’t be interested long-term (or at all) in a man who just likes those sorts of things and has nothing to talk to her about or do with her besides go to bed.
Here are a few more points to consider:
I) A seemingly “nice” guy can have emotional problems that only someone in an intimate relationship with him will see or fall victim to. He might be:
i) A misogynist
He’s Mr. Wonderful with men, but he HATES women. Some men of this type remain bachelors by choice, fortunately, but many of them go for relationships with women to get sex and other services, and then talk with their fists or are otherwise abusive behind closed doors. Any sane woman will head for the hills, and his friends will be amazed that such a good guy keeps getting dumped.
ii) A sociopath
Sociopaths are in general VERY intelligent, charming, outgoing, funny, romantic, passionate, successful in business...... and totally lacking in empathy (the ability to feel, and care about, the pain of others). A man like this will treat women in a variety of dreadful ways when they’re out of the public eye, and will often tell everyone that she’s “a little screwed up” so that no one will believe her if she complains about him. When she finally makes a run for it, people shake their heads in amazement that such a terrific “catch” keeps getting dumped, and that he keeps going for women who are so messed up and ungrateful.
II) A “nice” guy is still human, and therefore is imperfect, with an imperfect understanding of women and imperfect relationship skills.
There’s a subconscious idea held by many people that a “nice” guy is ALWAYS nice and ALWAYS does nice things, but think-is that realistic? Is he a SAINT? You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, and what DOES is often astonishing, because people can and do exhibit behaviors with their significant others that no one else in their lives EVER sees. For example, a man I know who’s astonishingly sweet and sensitive truly believes that, if a woman cries during a fight with him, she is ALWAYS faking in an attempt to manipulate him, and so a woman’s tears cause him to become outraged and nasty (an ex of his told me about this, and he freely admitted to it when asked); he’s a brilliant man, but he refuses to see the connection between upset and tears.
III) A “nice” guy is still living in the same world the rest of us are, where, for the first time in history, non-marriage intimate relationships and divorce are common, and, like most people, he hasn’t figured out what to do to keep a significant other with him when they have other socially acceptable choices.
We often think that, by being “nice,” the man has somehow won the right to be immune to all of the confusions and troubles the rest of us have with trying to make relationships work in this transitional period in cultural history when we have new freedoms and choices and no idea how to handle them to our best advantage yet... but, he’s NOT, so he can fail from simply being a modern person, just like anyone else can.
I hope this makes the true nice guys out there feel a little bit better about their attractiveness to women.
------------------
I will NEVER return to a thread once I've posted there. To well-wishers; sorry!! To all others;
The truth will set you free..... but first, it'll REALLY p!ss you off.
"You may be on the right track, but the train will run you over if you just sit there." -- Will Rogers
[This message has been edited by Princess-Spock (edited 07-30-2002).]
Why do women SEEM to not like nice guys?
Part of it is perception:
A) We get worked up when we see a “nice guy” unattached or dumped, but we don’t BLINK when we see a JERK unattached or dumped, so we end up with the same sort of warped perception that leads doctors and nurses to SWEAR that hospitals are busier during a full moon-that being “a nice guy” means that women won’t want you.
B) We don’t take into account that initial attraction is often based on pure surface flash, which jerks have honed to a science to use as a tool, while nice guys, like non-beautiful women, are less able to generate that immediate surge of excitement.... which means only that women are human with adrenal glands and hormones, NOT that they’re “choosing” jerks over nice guys.
C) We forget that jerks either don’t form relationships or, if they do, they like to do the dumping, and that since nice guys aren’t so quick on the trigger, and may hang around long enough to BE dumped, we associate “getting dumped” with “being a nice guy.”
D) When a man we like and think is "nice" gets dumped, we take his word for it that he's the innocent victim and did no wrong, forgetting that there are 2 sides to every story and that therefore he may have been dumped for bad behavior, being a lousy lover or many other reasons rather than "for dislike of niceness."
Part of it is that when we say “oh, he’s a nice guy,” what we REALLY mean is:
1) “I don’t know him that well, but he ‘seems’ nice.”
We all like to believe that we’re great judges of character, but, let’s face it, ANYONE can make polite conversation with acquaintances, and it doesn’t mean that they’re “nice.” (What do the neighbors and co-workers of serial killers always say? “I can’t believe it-he seemed like such a NICE man.”) There are plenty of rotten people who can be perfectly civil when it suits them, but they are NOT therefore “nice guys” or good relationship choices.
2) “He’s a ‘Yes-Man’”
We generally assume that anyone who agrees (says “yes” to everything), nods and smiles alot is “nice,” but all that REALLY means is that they have NO clue as to how to have real social interaction with anyone. Someone with that big of a lack of people skills does NOT make a good relationship prospect.
3) “He has no particular qualities that stand out.”
When you describe people, you normally say they’re smart, funny, organized, throw a great party, etc.... but, if all you can say about them is that they’re “nice,” it means that they have no virtues that are strong enough to merit mention, and someone like that isn’t likely to be singled out from the herd as a hot prospect.
4) “He’s boring.”
You have nothing really against the guy, he’s not “bad” or irritating or offensive in any way, but you just don’t find him interesting; calling a guy we have nothing against “boring” doesn’t seem right, so we call him “nice.” Who wants to date someone boring?
5) “He’s a follower.”
Everything about him, from his hairstyle, clothes and shoes to the brand of beer the drinks, has been chosen because they’re what most of the other guys have chosen, so that he can fit in. There’s nothing wrong with fitting in, of course.... but, why would someone who blends into a group be singled out by, or seen as a hottie by, a woman?
6) “He’s shy.”
A shy person can be utterly wonderful once you get to know them, but why would anyone of either gender take the time to single out a shy person as a dating prospect?
7) “He’s weak.”
This one can be slippery, because a weak guy can seem like just one of the gang, going along with what the rest of the guys say (because he doesn’t have the backbone to speak up), and the tell-tale signs of weakness are often lost on other men. While the weak guy may be able to GET a woman, he often gets dumped. Why? He’ll be attracted to strong women, who, to feel in control of, he will then manipulate by being passive-aggressive (constantly being late, losing or breaking things, “forgetting” important stuff, lying, being a sneak, etc) until she throws up her hands and kicks him to the curb.
8) “He’s great as a friend but horrible as a significant other.”
This kind of guy may also be able to GET a woman and often get dumped. For example, YOU may not care that your buddy has to have several beers every time you get together, but an alcoholic, even a charming one, is NOT a valid relationship prospect. YOU won’t care that he has mold growing in his bathtub and on the mountain of unwashed dishes in the sink, but a woman will NOT see The Mold King as a hot sexual prospect, much less a wise relationship choice.
9) “He really IS nice, sweet, and sensitive, BUT......”
a) “His looks are unappealing.”
People of both genders are influenced by looks; a man who is fat, homely, greasy-haired or with an affinity for wearing plaids and stripes together will NOT be a woman’s first choice.
b) “He lives at home with his mommy.”
Few women want a man who’s a momma’s boy or incapable of supporting himself.
c) “He works happily in the ‘pizza transportation’ field.”
Women often eagerly go for men who are “starving artists,” and understand that a student may only work part-time, but otherwise they expect a man to have a real job and adult ambitions.
d) “The only thing he’d have in common with most women is sex.”
Some women LOVE sports, video games and drinking beer; the rest won’t be interested long-term (or at all) in a man who just likes those sorts of things and has nothing to talk to her about or do with her besides go to bed.
Here are a few more points to consider:
I) A seemingly “nice” guy can have emotional problems that only someone in an intimate relationship with him will see or fall victim to. He might be:
i) A misogynist
He’s Mr. Wonderful with men, but he HATES women. Some men of this type remain bachelors by choice, fortunately, but many of them go for relationships with women to get sex and other services, and then talk with their fists or are otherwise abusive behind closed doors. Any sane woman will head for the hills, and his friends will be amazed that such a good guy keeps getting dumped.
ii) A sociopath
Sociopaths are in general VERY intelligent, charming, outgoing, funny, romantic, passionate, successful in business...... and totally lacking in empathy (the ability to feel, and care about, the pain of others). A man like this will treat women in a variety of dreadful ways when they’re out of the public eye, and will often tell everyone that she’s “a little screwed up” so that no one will believe her if she complains about him. When she finally makes a run for it, people shake their heads in amazement that such a terrific “catch” keeps getting dumped, and that he keeps going for women who are so messed up and ungrateful.
II) A “nice” guy is still human, and therefore is imperfect, with an imperfect understanding of women and imperfect relationship skills.
There’s a subconscious idea held by many people that a “nice” guy is ALWAYS nice and ALWAYS does nice things, but think-is that realistic? Is he a SAINT? You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors, and what DOES is often astonishing, because people can and do exhibit behaviors with their significant others that no one else in their lives EVER sees. For example, a man I know who’s astonishingly sweet and sensitive truly believes that, if a woman cries during a fight with him, she is ALWAYS faking in an attempt to manipulate him, and so a woman’s tears cause him to become outraged and nasty (an ex of his told me about this, and he freely admitted to it when asked); he’s a brilliant man, but he refuses to see the connection between upset and tears.
III) A “nice” guy is still living in the same world the rest of us are, where, for the first time in history, non-marriage intimate relationships and divorce are common, and, like most people, he hasn’t figured out what to do to keep a significant other with him when they have other socially acceptable choices.
We often think that, by being “nice,” the man has somehow won the right to be immune to all of the confusions and troubles the rest of us have with trying to make relationships work in this transitional period in cultural history when we have new freedoms and choices and no idea how to handle them to our best advantage yet... but, he’s NOT, so he can fail from simply being a modern person, just like anyone else can.
I hope this makes the true nice guys out there feel a little bit better about their attractiveness to women.
------------------
I will NEVER return to a thread once I've posted there. To well-wishers; sorry!! To all others;
The truth will set you free..... but first, it'll REALLY p!ss you off.
"You may be on the right track, but the train will run you over if you just sit there." -- Will Rogers
[This message has been edited by Princess-Spock (edited 07-30-2002).]
