Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Why do I have a higher success rate on first date dinner dates than drinks

Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
3,495
Reaction score
2,771
Age
28
I was going to ask this girl to go to a bar, but I realized that the majority of the bar first dates end up as flops. I also noticed that all of the girls I've been successful with, we did something that wasn't a bar or a bar was only part of the date lol. The only issue is that restaurants can be more expensive than bar dates sometimes, so I need to do a better job validating women before I meet them. Is it just me?
 

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
12,067
Reaction score
10,349
It's just you. Dinner dates are a waste. Many drinks dates at bars are flops too, so the data points can be deceiving. There is a reason why the Manosphere has long promoted no dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex as a crucial idea.
 

Pierce Manhammer

Moderator
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
4,552
Reaction score
5,463
Location
PRC
IMO : Nope it shows investment and girls like to think you’re “not cheap” and a provider. Whether or not the manosphere agrees…
 
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
3,495
Reaction score
2,771
Age
28
It's just you. Dinner dates are a waste. Many drinks dates at bars are flops too, so the data points can be deceiving. There is a reason why the Manosphere has long promoted no dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex as a crucial idea.
Than what are you supposed to do? I'm not inviting a stranger to my house, especially one from OLD. I also live in Houston, Tx so these park dates can only happen on weekend mornings where it's not 90 plus lol.
 

logicallefty

Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
6,057
Reaction score
5,230
Age
50
Location
Northeast Florida, USA
In life I am not, and try not to be, "on the fence" on too many things. The OP issue here is one I might just be on the fence with.

The majority of guys here say "first date, go to a bar, make it cheap". I see the why that is a good choice. Because of all of these women gold diggers looking to go from man to man to man to man and get lots of money spent on them without putting out or doing anything to earn what they get.. This is very legit... In my beta days I fell for it in a beta way, many times..

NOW, the other side... I make good money from multiple jobs. Speaking about when I was not yet married and out on the hunt, I would still like to go out and eat unbreaded chicken wings with a side salad with Ranch. I preferred them with someone else, but alone was OK too. I would go out and do that no matter if I had company or not.. If could get some company for one night, great, add +$20.00 to my bill from a woman with me.. If not, great, I still did it anyway.. Even if it was date #1 and never went to a lay or #2, I was still OK with $20 for her because I am secure in my two careers and finances.. When you are stable in your two career fields and make good money, and know that you are in two career fields that will never go away, you can be like this.. 20 bux, who cares! Now, if she starts asking you for "gas money" to meet you... UMMMM.. NO....

So my FINAL answer on this.. If your money situation is decent, who cares! If its not where you want it to be, better go the cheap route.
 
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
3,495
Reaction score
2,771
Age
28
In life I am not, and try not to be, "on the fence" on too many things. The OP issue here is one I might just be on the fence with.

The majority of guys here say "first date, go to a bar, make it cheap". I see the why that is a good choice. Because of all of these women gold diggers looking to go from man to man to man to man and get lots of money spent on them without putting out or doing anything to earn what they get.. This is very legit... In my beta days I fell for it in a beta way, many times..

NOW, the other side... I make good money from multiple jobs. Speaking about when I was not yet married and out on the hunt, I would still like to go out and eat unbreaded chicken wings with a side salad with Ranch. I preferred them with someone else, but alone was OK too. I would go out and do that no matter if I had company or not.. If could get some company for one night, great, add +$20.00 to my bill from a woman with me.. If not, great, I still did it anyway.. Even if it was date #1 and never went to a lay or #2, I was still OK with $20 for her because I am secure in my two careers and finances.. When you are stable in your two career fields and make good money, and know that you are in two career fields that will never go away, you can be like this.. 20 bux, who cares! Now, if she starts asking you for "gas money" to meet you... UMMMM.. NO....

So my FINAL answer on this.. If your money situation is decent, who cares! If its not where you want it to be, better go the cheap route.
Yeah, I make decent money and I am pretty comfortable eating alone. However, there are restaurants that I consider better with another person that I do want to try out on a date. In addition, the difference between a dinner date and just-drinks can range from 10-30 bucks anyway. I'm not going to take a girl out to a fancy steak dinner on a first date, hell no.
 

logicallefty

Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
6,057
Reaction score
5,230
Age
50
Location
Northeast Florida, USA
Yeah, I make decent money and I am pretty comfortable eating alone. However, there are restaurants that I consider better with another person that I do want to try out on a date. In addition, the difference between a dinner date and just-drinks can range from 10-30 bucks anyway. I'm not going to take a girl out to a fancy steak dinner on a first date, hell no.
I hear you. This is where two things come into relevant play 1) You pick the dinner spot, and invite her to come along. In other words "I am going to eat at THIS PLACE on THIS DAY at THIS TIME. Join me?" You are going regardless and 2) You order first. Interested women will order after you and order a cheaper meal than you did.
 

logicallefty

Moderator
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Messages
6,057
Reaction score
5,230
Age
50
Location
Northeast Florida, USA
People are sleepy after a good meal, not aroused!
This is SO true. Spot fvcking on. And why I low carb so much. Not as much about weight loss. More about my mood, not being tired, functioning, etc!

With my lead, I have repeatedly had women order what I did or less. The key advise here is do not order spaghetti with a role and side of french fries, with ice cream for desert. Order something lighter and skip desert.

Avoid your post meal sleepyness, and hopefully hers too!
 

BadBoy89

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 18, 2020
Messages
1,707
Reaction score
2,009
I also noticed that all of the girls I've been successful with, we did something that wasn't a bar or a bar was only part of the date lol.

- I'm not going to take a girl out to a fancy steak dinner on a first date, hell no

- I'm not inviting a stranger to my house, especially one from OLD.

Than what are you supposed to do?
Take her to the place that wasn’t a bar or take her to the place where the bar wasn’t the only part of the date.

How can a bar + another part of a date be less expensive than a simple dinner? You got drinks at a bar, then taxi, then if you to get dessert that can add up. Now if you are not taking her home where are you taking her where it’s not your house and whatever you do costs no money? And she’s turned by that thing you do where she wants to put her tongue down her throat afterwards?
 

Murk

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
4,321
Reaction score
3,233
Age
35
Location
London
Never done dinner first date, always drinks. I’m in my element having drinks, some music, busy bar. Some touching and flirting, interacting with people around us, moving around or outside, going somewhere else nearby.

Not a quiet restaurant sitting opposite some entitled hoe (I find the deluded broads always ask for dinner first date) asking me about my past and what I’m looking for. Me trying not to make a mess and remember some questions to fire back in between looking at my food and her tits.

Couldn’t think of anything worse tbh and I’m very good in 1 on 1 situations due to pitching, hosting and entertaining clients at work for a decade. Alcohol on both sides mean we are going back to her place or mine without fail.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Foe

Bingo-Player

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
3,049
Reaction score
3,321
Location
uk
I took a chick to a bar last week two hours later she had her legs wrapped around my head

Remember its YOUR FRAME , not hers

You could take her to a pig farm and still get her wet .....if you know what your doing
 

Bigpapa

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
3,193
Reaction score
2,490
Age
124
I took a chick to a bar last week two hours later she had her legs wrapped around my head

Remember its YOUR FRAME , not hers

You could take her to a pig farm and still get her wet .....if you know what your doing
it depends on why you are doing it

if you usually eat out and having someone joining you is not a big thing for you , then you should do whatever feels right at the moment

if going out for dinner is something that is quite expensive , especially if you would this 30-40% of the nights in a month , then you should not do it as it will put you in chasing mode and the frame is that of supplication

The bar thing is something that goes through the pick up forums because most the guys there are poor , barely living paycheck to paycheck
 

Rainman4707

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
1,586
Reaction score
513
In life I am not, and try not to be, "on the fence" on too many things. The OP issue here is one I might just be on the fence with.

The majority of guys here say "first date, go to a bar, make it cheap". I see the why that is a good choice. Because of all of these women gold diggers looking to go from man to man to man to man and get lots of money spent on them without putting out or doing anything to earn what they get.. This is very legit... In my beta days I fell for it in a beta way, many times..

NOW, the other side... I make good money from multiple jobs. Speaking about when I was not yet married and out on the hunt, I would still like to go out and eat unbreaded chicken wings with a side salad with Ranch. I preferred them with someone else, but alone was OK too. I would go out and do that no matter if I had company or not.. If could get some company for one night, great, add +$20.00 to my bill from a woman with me.. If not, great, I still did it anyway.. Even if it was date #1 and never went to a lay or #2, I was still OK with $20 for her because I am secure in my two careers and finances.. When you are stable in your two career fields and make good money, and know that you are in two career fields that will never go away, you can be like this.. 20 bux, who cares! Now, if she starts asking you for "gas money" to meet you... UMMMM.. NO....

So my FINAL answer on this.. If your money situation is decent, who cares! If its not where you want it to be, better go the cheap route.
The more money you make..the more likely you are to spend a bit of it on a woman.
End of the day...it's upto the man if he wants to or not.
 

SW15

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
12,067
Reaction score
10,349
Not about the money at all. Bar > restaurant for the ambiance. You sit closer to her, it is darker, there is ability to touch, and the alcohol is flowing.
Some drinks dates actually cost a similar amount of money to dinner dates. Bar dates are a little better for the reasons you mentioned. However, if you have too many "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions from bar dates, you're going to feel the financial pinch of it. The best way to avoid too many "one date, no sex, no second date" type interactions is not use a swipe app to arrange dates. For most men, it used to be that swipe apps would result in more quantity of dates that you could arrange through real life approaching. It wasn't an unusual case for men to get more first dates in 2 weeks on a swipe apps than it would date with 6-8 weeks of in-person approaching. In the last 2 years or so, most men are not even getting that benefit, as algorithms are leading to less quantity of options.

Than what are you supposed to do? I'm not inviting a stranger to my house, especially one from OLD. I also live in Houston, Tx so these park dates can only happen on weekend mornings where it's not 90 plus lol.
I need to do a better job validating women before I meet them.
You acknowledged it yourself. You need to do a better job validating women before you meet them. The best way to do this is to eliminate swipe apps from your life. As far as you are concerned, they don't exist. Swipe apps are a completely unnatural way to start interactions with women, even if you do video calls with your prospects prior to meeting them. Video calls have gotten immensely popular within the swipe apps in the last 2 years. While video calls help, there is a better option that exists.

Start every interaction with a woman in real life.

The idea behind starting interactions in real life is to avoid the unpleasant and unproductive outcome of "one date, no sex, no second date". However, most approaches will nowhere and not lead to dates, which is an ok outcome because you won't be spending money on a woman who isn't serious about fuccking. If you validating them in person, you have a better chance of an unproductive date outcome. The downside to this is that you will go on fewer dates. I'll explain why next.

In the 2nd half of the 2000s and during most of the 2010s, a large percentage of men could arrange more dates via dating websites (2000s) and swipe apps (2010s) than they could from hitting the pavement hard and doing in-person approaching. This is because you're exposed to way more singles than you would be from pounding the pavement. When you're doing in-person approaching, you can only be in one place at one time. When you use tech assisted means, it's like being in 10-20 places at one time. In theory, you're going to get more dates doing this and the theory worked in practice for many years.

However, most of these dating website/swipe app arrange dates have always been complete garbage, mostly due to it being so unnatural. They were the "one date, no sex, no second date" variety that would cost you time and money, while the woman gets freebies. Even on drinks dates, the woman usually gets free drinks because of some outdated norm. Due to this outdated norm, during the early part of my career, there were plenty of times I was buying drinks for a woman with a higher annual salary than I had at that time. I thought that was a raw deal.

When you find a good prospect in real life, you probably need to do some date in public with them prior to a date at your home. Bars are probably better than dinners. I like activity/event dates prior to the home sex date, but they are difficult to schedule on weeknights. You really weekend daytime hours for those to happen + a mutual interest in some activity/event. Determining that in a 5-20 minute in-person initial conversation isn't probable, so the drinks date in a bar is the most probable outcome when you find a good prospect.
 

DonJuanjr

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 6, 2021
Messages
3,439
Reaction score
2,395
Age
36
The bar thing is something that goes through the pick up forums because most the guys there are poor , barely living paycheck to paycheck
Since most people are not making six figures, it would not be surprising then.... The most represented idea fits the most represented people.
 

Pierce Manhammer

Moderator
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
4,552
Reaction score
5,463
Location
PRC
One thing that’s always worked was a bar with good food and live music, and getting there for happy hour. It’s a good way to deal with sneating Ho’s, it also turns the tables so to speak. If you go to place called the whatever Martini and everyone is drinking she will too then the music sets the mood and you’re in game mode whether or not she wanted that to begin with. Women even the ones that can’t dance love when you take them out to dance and put on a show for them, extra points if you’re the first couple to hit the floor. Women are attention seekers. It works men.

The other thing that works is a Biergarten setup at a brewery - it’s eclectic, happening, fun and less expensive - even better if the HB8 waitresses know you and treat you like royalty, because you did the work to get the place on lockdown.
 
Last edited:

Bigpapa

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 17, 2020
Messages
3,193
Reaction score
2,490
Age
124
Since most people are not making six figures, it would not be surprising then.... The most represented idea fits the most represented people.
6 figures does not make you rich . In the big cities with 6 figures you get a suburban submediocre life at 100k per year

if you barely live from paycheck to paycheck , guys should focus more on having the means to live at least a mediocre life instead of being obsessed about other stuff that people are obsessed here

like I said , if you barely afford to pay rent you have no right to be entitled to be a ladies man . In the most optimistic scenario you are a failure

sure you will say that bla bla , but the truth is that if you put the effort in something you will do it . Most things are not about luck or how smart you are , it is about how dedicated you are to learning that particular trade

anyone here for example can learn some programming for example and be an average programmer , or any other trade that is sought and pays good

even a plumber or electrician pays way more than most of the corporate \ retail jobs
 

Pierce Manhammer

Moderator
Joined
Jun 2, 2021
Messages
4,552
Reaction score
5,463
Location
PRC
That said, money does not buy class, presence, knowledge and panache. Yea you shouldn't be living on the lam or in your mom’s basement. But frankly, you can have a decent place that’s well appointed, you can dress nicely and afford a couple of drinks a few times a week on a middle class salary - adjusted to your zip code of course.

For example, in the SF Bay Area (the most utter horror for average looking and average earning men) - if you live in Watsonville/Salinas/Los Baños, do not expect that your ability to pull chicks from Woodside/Atherton to be high. Could happen, but it’s unlikely. You’d be better off pulling from Fremont/Milpitas/SSJ.

Chances are, if you’re here you are not a CK model or 9-10 Chadwick so add that to your equation.
 
Last edited:
Top