"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
Who pays?
- Thread starter DJnoob
- Start date
"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"
Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.
She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.
Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.
So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.
The words come later. The impression comes first.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Is it an actual date?
Are the two of you just meeting up somewhere?
You gotta have some type of plan to determine who pays for what.
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
Sorry to say but you have to pay. You have to steer this date in a direction in which your comfortable. On a first date you have to pay or you will look cheap. On a second date, I fully expect a woman to pay (providing she has the mean to do so).
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
And so the only way to do that is to pay? So if things progress to a LTR, the only way a man is to steer things is to pay for it? You're kidding, right?
Paying for anything is merely a gesture, nothing more. Why associate any type of power, authority or direction to money? Anyone can pay for something, that takes no talent nor effort what so ever.
A DJ doesn't need to depend on gestures to present himself. His non material actions are what commands his authority. He can still guide the direction of the date by his strength of his convictions and personality and not by the simplicity of kind gestures.
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
There is an old saying about not putting the cart before the horse. WE were talking about paying on a first date, you are asking about a LTR... I fail to understand the correlation. By steering, I meant don't take her somewhere expensive, take her somewhere that you will feel comfortable paying.
"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."
Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.
Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?
You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.
Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Ahhh, so . You're saying that it's necessary even if it's just the first date, for the guy to come out of pocket to impress the girl. I see. I guess if your first date needs to be somewhere that things need to be purchased. I guess that would include a movie and dinner as a first date huh? And all of this for a person that you don't even know... What's next, giving a stranger your ATM PIN number or a blank signed check for a date?
Guys, if all you have to offer or the best you have to offer is paying for dinner on a first date, you will be in AFC land for a long time. Work on your charisma, work on your social skills, work on engaging conversation, work on making a woman enjoy your company no matter the venue and your success will skyrocket along with the amount of funds in your wallet.
penkitten
Master Don Juan
sometimes you find a good gal , and she takes turns paying.
So, she's older, like early 40s and im 23..
So, i should pay since i asked? I have no experience with milfs.. or should I tell her that we should pay 1/2 the cost
Do milfs know that when a young guy asks them out that their gona get nothing out of it or what?
I called her house last night and left message on her answering machine.. been 20 hours and no returned call yet... oh well
penkitten
Master Don Juan
usually that means you go dutch
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
No offence pen, but through all the doings of th feminist movement, it's still a toss up whether a guy comes across a woman that pays her own way. Heaven forbid you come across one that actually pays for the guy on a date.
“The 22 Psychological Triggers That Make Women Chase You… Starting Tonight”
Forget the cash, the cars, and the chiseled jawlines. Female desire operates on a completely different frequency. Primal. Subconscious. Triggers that bypass her logic and hit her on a gut level. Most guys are totally blind to them.
I know because I was one of them. The overthinking. The paralysis. The silent drive home kicking yourself for freezing up. Watching average guys walk away with the girl while you stood there stuck in your own head.
Then I decoded the psychology behind what actually makes women tick. 22 hard rules. Subtle behavioral shifts that rewired my entire reality. The anxiety evaporated. Women started leaning in. Investing. Chasing.
penkitten
Master Don Juan
uh really?
cause i do my share of paying for myself and i take turns on dates paying. i thought this was fair .
think of all the money i wasted.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Welcome to the world that most men live in pen. Tons of time and money wasted yet some still say that it should be done.
What ever happened to just meeting up at a park, a coffee shop or bookstore to just talk and learn about one another? Is it so difficult to just have a conversation with someone without having a ton of external entertainment to occupy each other?
penkitten
Master Don Juan
this is true.
it is expensive to date these days.
heck the price of gasoline alone.
i just never thought it was fair for only one person to do all the paying.
yet, i have friends that only take enough cash for a way into places, knowing some gius will pay the rest of her evening.
i never go out unless i can afford it.
princelydeeds
Master Don Juan
You better be careful you are gonna hurt your ankles jumping to so many conclusions? You are worse than any woman I've ever met. When did I say anything about impressing someone. My point is pretty simple, but you wanna make it complex.
Here it is in simple terms, try to keep up, If you take a woman somewhere, on a first date, and someone has to pay, 95% of the time the man should pay! If you don't wanna pay for dinner and a movie, do not go to dinner and movie. If you go to a coffee shop and get coffee, I think its a good idea to pay to avoid looking cheap. Thats it pretty simple. Please don't read anything else into my point.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Ooo, seems like a struck a chord. Aunt Flow must be visiting.
Y'know, if dating was so simple, you wouldn't be here, now would you. Things are only complex if they are beyond the boundaries of your understanding.
For somone who doesn't like complex ideas, you're quick to toss in percentages, haha. Don't worry though, I won't read anything into your point since you haven't made one. :crackup:
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
assasin
Don Juan
If you chatted with the woman for an hour or so and you think you're good for a great night, and a bit of light petting or more, then fair enough, make the most of the evening.
If the most you know about her is that she's a divorced 30 something legal secretary, you don't want to put yourself into a position where you've commited to spend 3 hours and $50 on someone who you don't get on with!
It's common sense really. Plus it's more fair on the woman, because she doesn't feel awkward at that "good night kiss" point.
So when we say don't pay, what we mean is don't pony up a three course meal on a woman who hasn't made any suggestion that she'll invite you up for coffee!
englishcrap
Senior Don Juan
"Hey so when are u going to take me out on a date. If you dont I am gonna forget what you look like "
That way she gets the hint and will probably pay the next time u meet up.
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
Out of curiosity, how many women have asked you out and how many of those actually paid for the date?
Francisco d'Anconia
Master Don Juan
I cringe whenever I hear about a guy "hinting" to a woman. How many times have we complained about how women do that to us?Originally posted by englishcrap
If you paid for on the first date. The next time time round hint to her that she should pay next time...the way I did it was
"Hey so when are u going to take me out on a date. If you dont I am gonna forget what you look like "
That way she gets the hint and will probably pay the next time u meet up.
"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"
You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.
For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.
Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.
The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.