When in doubt....DO NOTHING

STR8UP

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Can't remember if this has been discussed or not, but I was thinking about this today.

Sometimes when dealing with women, there isn't a clear course of action.

Maybe she throws a sh!t test at you, and you aren't quite sure how to react.

When in doubt.....DO NOTHING

Agree or disagree?

Actually, what made me curious about this is that I kinda had plans with this chick tonight. Nothing set in stone, but she's actually the one who brought it up a couple of times so I just assumed that it was a go.

I was busy at work today and i wanted to figure out what was going on tonight, so I texted her asking if she was coming by later. She said she wasn't sure, she was trying to finish up a few things and asked what my plans were. Told her I was just seeing if I needed to make other plans, and that I would talk to her later (assuming she would take it as we're both gonna do our own thing). Maybe if I would have said it the right way at THAT point she might have taken it as "it's either yes or no", but instead she replies "Go ahead and make plans and I will call you if I'm able to meet up with you, will this work?"

I could smell either a sh!t test or possibly me being put on a back burner. Probably the latter. Actually, probably both. No matter what it was though, if I would have agreed to those terms it would have been a WEAK move.

When we talked about getting together it was implied that she would be staying the night, so what could she have to "finish up" before she knows whether or not she can make it? It would have been a late night anyway.....

If I responded "Sure, no problem" that would imply that I would be waiting for her. If I responded "No, sounds like you're busy, let's get together some other time" it might come off as a little pissy. I was leaning toward the "No" response, but I wasn't sure which way to take it and I wasn't going to put any more effort into the decision, so I just didn't respond. I made the attempt, ball's in her court, she knows how to get ahold of me.

Just thinking back in the past this method of dealing with an uncertain situation has worked well for me. Basically a variation of "walking away". If a chick gets pissy about something and I don't want to deal with it, I just stop returning calls. And when I do respond in this way the results for me are pretty much always positive.

It's easy to look at from a third person POV when it's a woman throwing a fit or something of that nature, but when it's THIS kind of situation sometimes it's hard to spot and address when she's trying to control the situation and you don't want to be a puppy dog, but at the same time you don't want to make it look like she has pissed you off or anything.

I think with women, 95% of the time inaction is more powerful than any action. It allows you to retain control. It plants seed of doubt. A woman's mind can be her own worst enemy when she knows she doesn't have control and is uncertain as to what YOU are thinking.

What do you think?
 

joekerr31

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agree 100% .

but at the same time, you should always be growing, evolving and maturing so that the situations where you are 'in doubt' become less and less frequent.

but doing nothing when you dont know what to do is ALWAYS a good strategy.

its like investing. who in their right mind would invest in something when they had no idea what they were doing.

actually quite a lot of people do that - and quite a lot lose their shirt.

thats the whole point of the mature forum if you ask me - for guys to take situations where they are 'in doubt' and get the opinions of other guys who may have gone through those situations and learned from them and know what to do.
 

ketostix

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I would tend to agree and is how I usually play it. When you're in a situation with a woman and your not sure how to respond to her test, it's best to give no response. See if you respond a certain way with the intention of her interpreting your words a certain way to your advantage it's just as likely or more that she'll (mis)interpret it some other way to your disadvantage. See that's the thng yoiu want her to interpret and respond to what you do a certain way but you have no way of knowing how she'll react.

I think doing nothing many times causes her to create realities in her own mind beneficial to you. There probably is a better response than nothing to this specific situation, but I don't know what it is. No one knows, because no one can predict the future. So I think taking a wait and see approach is the least risky course of action. She might very well contact you later with something you can easily "correctly" respond to.
 

Phyzzle

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I'm going to disagree 100%!

I think this is a case where "when in doubt . . . eliminate the doubts." Just bring it out in the open. "Are you coming or not?"

Yes, I know you generally don't want to yap explicitly about most things. When she says "so do you do this with all the girls?" "do you think you're going home with me tonight?" don't converse in a logical manner. If you can't think of anything funny to say, then, yeah, say nothing.

But for something simple like meeting at 7:00, cut the word games and just freakin' ask. Make something happen already, because even a truly interested woman will swap all this vague, game-playing, 'maybe' crap with you ad infinitum and never actually see you. You have to say, "we shall meet up at this time at this place".

kinda had plans with this chick tonight. Nothing set in stone
Yeah, my days of doing that are over.
 

Juando

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Interesting, I can relate.

Today I was expecting my damsel at 1pm. I rushed around and made it back home to find a message, a little whiny, about needing to do laundry and can we make it next week. Call me back she says.

Now it's after 1 and I definitely am not gonna call her back. And I'm pi$$ed.

So she starts texting me, calling my cel, calling home no.

I finally tersely respond with a text of "I'll call u later", not intending to.

4pm and she calls again, I don't answer. But now I'm calmer and a little
later I do call her and we have a pretty good convo.

She asks me if I'm mad and I say not but it was a missed opportunity.
I think she gets that I'm talking about her missing the opportunity.

This is not a black and white situation- I actually saw her last night, initiated by her and got lots of warmth, kino, good stuff. Today's get together was her idea also. I think she is $hit testing both me and herself- if I'm not mistaken she is gradually pulling into an intimate relationship with me but she's not ready to admit it, to me or herself.

I'm still on DJ training wheels: she's definitely hot and it's easy for me to lose myself and give up my power around her. Today was interesting because early on I was definitely ready to next her, but she pulled me back in with her repeated calls, which is not like her to pursue, at all.

I'm glad I sat it out, ready to move on, not trying to manipulate her but that it ended up with her chasing me. I don't know how this one is going to end up but something tells me I've got her hooked to some degree and if I can immunize myself somewhat to her hotness and push-pull, withdraw when she
$hit tests, that I can reel her in.

It's work but hey, it would be nice for this plate to deliver.
 

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STR8UP

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joekerr31 said:
agree 100% .

but at the same time, you should always be growing, evolving and maturing so that the situations where you are 'in doubt' become less and less frequent.
So how would you and everyone else have responded to this particular situation?

I'm curious cause my AFC side wanted to say "Sure, call me whenever you decide what you're gonna do". My ass hole side wanted to say "Uh, b!tch, we DID kiind of talk about this and I set aside some time....." The other side of me was somewhere in between and I wasn't QUITE sure if it was the DJ side, although it probably was, and it wanted me to say "Are you in or are you out?" the problem with that response would be that it might be misconstrued.
 

Juando

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STR8UP said:
So how would you and everyone else have responded to this particular situation?

These days I rarely get myself into ambivalent plans with a woman,
it's asking for trouble...

It's bad enough when you have DEFINITE plans, they can flake, but why set yourself up?

What's wrong with saying "I've got too much going on to leave it open"-
they like it. And if they don't....NEXT.
 

STR8UP

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ketostix said:
I think doing nothing many times causes her to create realities in her own mind beneficial to you.
The problem with this is that if you aren't giving a response based on her obviously bad behavior, (such as a wishy washy excuse like this) the non-response itself could be construed as you being "pissed".

But yea, overall I believe wholeheartedly that if left to her imagination most of the time she will be thinking worst case scenario, which would be that you could care less. He who cares least has the most power.

With this type of situation I am still trying to get myself to realize that a lot of people don't operate with the same concept of time and etiquette when it comes to making plans, even casually. I have to learn to let it go cause I'm the type who is pretty much ALWAYS on time and I very rarely cancel. Some people aren't like this.
 

joekerr31

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STR8UP said:
but instead she replies "Go ahead and make plans and I will call you if I'm able to meet up with you, will this work?"
well in this particular situation my personal view is that its pretty straight forward.

if some super hot chic wanted to hang out with you and you thought you were going to get laid would you say "i dont know if i can make it. go ahead and make other plans."

her IL was low.

she basically told you 'ah, i dont really care about keeping your interest level in me up. i can take you or leave you. right now i feel like leaving you. but who knows, maybe later i'll feel like taking you. i'll let you know."

how you normally respond to this is correct. just disappear off the radar and go catch you some other fish. she ain't the only fish in the sea.

don't waste your time on women who can't be clear about their interest in you.

you dont have to be mean, or rude, or explain yourself. simply disappear.

she will probably text you later, or tomorrow, and ask you how your night was. your response should be something like '9 out of 10." (given the female ego she'll think - he's saying that if i were there it would have been a 10 out of 10. but nonetheless i wonder if he was screwing out with other women, hence why he had such a great time without me. i better get my *ss in the game before its too late).

she'll probably then start bringing up 'well, when are we going out?"

then don't ask her when shes free. just say "this friday." if she bails on that with "ohhh, i dont know, friday isn't that good for me." then send back a smiley face and say "no problem. i gotta jet. talk to you later."

either way, as long as she sh*t tests you, then don't waste your time on her.

my 2 cents anyway.
 

Mr.Positive

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STR8UP said:
So how would you and everyone else have responded to this particular situation?
I think doing nothing was the best action, that's what I would have done, or like to think I would have done..

If you actually responded, you would either be supplicating to her, or it would be interpretted as being angry or controlling. Lose-lose situation.

Doing nothing at all was perfect. In fact, doing nothing doesn't get enough credit in general, it can be a great way to deal with sht tests. I'm all for it.

It basically sends the message that the situation isn't worthy of your response, so you aren't going to deal with it. You have better things to focus on. Which is true, especially when it comes to these lose-lose situations with women.
 

guru1000

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I think "not responding" is not a masculine thing to do. It is something a women is more likely to do out of insecurity and fear. When you are ready to walk away, then don't respond. But I dont think that was your intention.

I also think not responding shows her you weren't too happy with her text. That shows emotion to her. If you couldn't care less about her, you wouldn't be upset. Think about the frame.

I would have texted back "Let's do it for another day when we can make definite plans ". I would have called her a couple days later to make definite plans and if she gave me the run-around, then I next her.

I was in a similiar situation a month ago, where a girl broke plans with me 5 hours before the date through a text and it was a planned second date. I didn't respond but I never called her again, neither did she. LOL. We all been there, but I think the above is the best approach.
 

STR8UP

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Juando said:
These days I rarely get myself into ambivalent plans with a woman,
it's asking for trouble...

It's bad enough when you have DEFINITE plans, they can flake, but why set yourself up?

What's wrong with saying "I've got too much going on to leave it open"-
they like it. And if they don't....NEXT.
Yea, I agree. But I didn't really leave it open.

I guess I don't know this chick well enough to have realized that I NEEDED to be that specific. I mean, when last weekend she says, "So when we get up next Sunday can we do blah, blah, blah?" And then in the middle of the week she says, "So what are we doing Saturday? I'll be happy staying in with a pizza and a movie" you kinda make the assumption that it's a sure thing. Was that not solid enough plans?

The more I think about it the more it does piss me off, actually.

It's one thing to have options and date other people and from time to time have an issue that prevents you from going through with plans, but it's not cool to put someone "on hold" while you weigh your options. And I'm about 90% sure that's what's happening.

Gotta keep an eye on this one I suppose. If it becomes a habit then I can do without, that's for sure.
 

STR8UP

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joekerr31 said:
well in this particular situation my personal view is that its pretty straight forward.

if some super hot chic wanted to hang out with you and you thought you were going to get laid would you say "i dont know if i can make it. go ahead and make other plans."
Absolutely. That's why the whole wishy washy thing makes me question my assumptions about her all the way around. She does work some odd hours but she comes and goes as she pleases and I seriously doubt that had anything to do with it. I think she had another date. And if she did that's not cool to lead someone ELSE on about the same thing. "When I spend the night next Saturday...." Her visible IL last time I saw her seemed high enough that I didn't think I would have to deal with stuff like this, but I guess "that's women"

don't waste your time on women who can't be clear about their interest in you.
That's the funny thing. Unless something happened since Wednesday when I talked to her last, her interest seemed VERY clear.

you dont have to be mean, or rude, or explain yourself. simply disappear.

she will probably text you later, or tomorrow, and ask you how your night was. your response should be something like '9 out of 10." (given the female ego she'll think - he's saying that if i were there it would have been a 10 out of 10. but nonetheless i wonder if he was screwing out with other women, hence why he had such a great time without me. i better get my *ss in the game before its too late).
I've found that no matter what you do it is of utmost importance to show NO emotion with something like this. Do nothing. Walk away. We only chase what runs away....if there was true interest she WILL be back, if not, well then you saved yourself some BS.

she'll probably then start bringing up 'well, when are we going out?"
Problem with this one is that the only time it's really practical for us to get together is on Saturday. And I think she said she's going out of town next weekend. Oh well....at this point she has to put forth the effort or it's no dice.
 

STR8UP

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Mr.Positive said:
It basically sends the message that the situation isn't worthy of your response, so you aren't going to deal with it. You have better things to focus on. Which is true, especially when it comes to these lose-lose situations with women.
Yea, cause regardless, I had every reasonable right to expect that we had plans, and if she IS ditching me for another dude or her friends or whatever she has to know that it isn't cool (unless she's one of those who just doesn't get it). So by letting her know that it wasn't worthy of a response, you are keeping your cool but sending a subtle message at the same time.
 

Phyzzle

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And then in the middle of the week she says, "So what are we doing Saturday? I'll be happy staying in with a pizza and a movie" you kinda make the assumption that it's a sure thing. Was that not solid enough plans?
Honestly, I would have texted or called to say, "sure, come to my house (or that cafe) at 7:00, okay?" Right off the bat. That's just how I would do it.

You see, when I'm lukewarm about doing something, I'm more likely to do it if there's a definite plan. Say, playing pool with some guys at a bar "sometime this weekend", I might prefer to sit at home and play Civilization IV. But if I told a guy I would be there, I tend to force myself to go.

In fact, I often make definite plans just to force MYSELF to be more social. Just to get the momentum going so I don't give in to watching TV/websurfing.

I believe it's the same sort of thing with sales, and with lukewarm women. Just get the ball rolling, so she doesn't have TIME to say, "would I rather watch Greys Anatomy tonight?"
 
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joekerr31 said:
either way, as long as she sh*t tests you, then don't waste your time on her.
.
This is the best piece of advice in this thread - many times these alleged 'tests' are not tests at all, but are attempts by her to dangle you and set her frame by being wishy washy and indecisive..

Furthermore - I do not agree that showing that you are "pissed " is a negative thing at all. Where is the logic in that. The belief that if you show that you are pissed gives her some satisfaction is wedged up your a$$ thinking. Showing your displeasure at her bad behavior and then following it up with a retreat IS the most direct route with the best chance of changing her behavior because you have told her what is unacceptable.. Disappearing without a word is weaker. At best she will be left in doubt and confusion. Women are confused most of the time already - why add to the their messed up brain functionings?

My 3 centavo
 

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Phyzzle said:
Honestly, I would have texted or called to say, "sure, come to my house (or that cafe) at 7:00, okay?" Right off the bat. That's just how I would do it.

You see, when I'm lukewarm about doing something, I'm more likely to do it if there's a definite plan. Say, playing pool with some guys at a bar "sometime this weekend", I might prefer to sit at home and play Civilization IV. But if I told a guy I would be there, I tend to force myself to go.

In fact, I often make definite plans just to force MYSELF to be more social. Just to get the momentum going so I don't give in to watching TV/websurfing.

I believe it's the same sort of thing with sales, and with lukewarm women. Just get the ball rolling, so she doesn't have TIME to say, "would I rather watch Greys Anatomy tonight?"
I absolutely agree with what you are saying, however.....when a chick talks about getting together AND WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO WHEN YOU GET TOGETHER all week, is it too far a stretch to assume it's a done deal? I mean, the first time it was face to face. What am I supposed to do? Get up real close to her face and say "SO YOU MEAN SATURDAY? THIS SATURDAY? AND WE ARE GOING TO DEFINITELY GOING TO GET TOGETHER, RIGHT?"

I guess I should have learned my lesson with the one chick I was banging awhile back. Stupid b!tch called me NO LESS than five times one night over the course of an hour or two saying she was on her way to my house (which was walking distance, BTW). I waited up till 2:30 and the b!tch FINALLY calls and says she headed home. I was like, uh WHAT THE FUKKK? I could have been in bed sleeping an hour ago beeotch......

Man, if you can't expect common courtesy from them (unless their interest is through the ROOF) what CAN you expect from a woman?
 

STR8UP

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jophil28 said:
This is the best piece of advice in this thread - many times these alleged 'tests' are not tests at all, but are attempts by her to dangle you and set her frame by being wishy washy and indecisive..

Furthermore - I do not agree that showing that you are "pissed " is a negative thing at all. Where is the logic in that. The belief that if you show that you are pissed gives her some satisfaction is wedged up your a$$ thinking. Showing your displeasure at her bad behavior and then following it up with a retreat IS the most direct route with the best chance of changing her behavior because you have told her what is unacceptable.. Disappearing without a word is weaker. At best she will be left in doubt and confusion. Women are confused most of the time already - why add to the their messed up brain functionings?

My 3 centavo
We've been through this before in another thread. All it does when you get riled up is show that she can push your buttons. She LIKES that. And you aren't teaching her a lesson, cause a woman is essentially a man "without reason and accountability".

The indirect approach works so much better. There is strength in walking away and refusing to acknowledge her juvenile behavior.
 

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These kinda things irritate the H*LL outta me. I've only got so much time, and flakes just really get under my skin.

I know, I know, I'm supposed to spin plates, and have a backup plan, etc.

And I accept that this is part of the game, and that I should be "ready for it," and that I'm not to show an emotional response to the chick. BUT IT REALLY DOES P*SS ME OFF.

I'm just not used to it. Is this a new thing? Because I never had it happen to me until after my last divorce(2 yrs ago). I mean NEVER. But for the last year, I've had this happen like 4 times.

I don't let on, but it's SO weird. What is the mindset? I understand a "better offer," and I accept that those happen, and I'm ok with that, but why not just TELL me "no"? Why wait 'till the last minute? Or even, as STR*UP wrote above, PAST the last minute, with multiple calls, saying "Gimme a little more time," and then, finally, NOTHING?

Sometimes I think I understand these women, but THIS issue really messes me up.

I've only got so many days left, and MANY of those are going to be filled up with my kids, and with work. I HATE wasting "opportunities."

So, there's my rant on THAT. Guess I should just take my own advice and "accept" that this is the way it is.

-
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STR8UP

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It wasn't even "Gimme a little more time". It was "I'm at the club, leaving soon" then "I'm leaving the club" then "I'm walking to my car" then "I'm at the parking garage" then "I'm drunk so I'm following my friend home which is 10 miles away instead of coming to your house like I SAID I was which is three blocks away" Ridiculous.

I'm right there with you Alias.

I've posted before about how much this irritates me.

Gen Y is especially bad. That's where I see most of the problem. But its also worn off on our generation, sadly.

As much as I realize I need to just learn to deal with it, I always wonder if it would benefit me to let people know in a subtle or not so subtle way that if there's a chance they are gonna pull that sh!t then tell me right now and I'll make other arrangements.

That said, I'm still of the opinion that it doesn't do a damn bit of good to show anger when it happens. I simply give a limited number of chances. Problem solved.
 
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