When disrespect ends a relationship

[BeExcellent]

You got it on the last line there - that's his mother and only he's going to figure out how to work through that. I banged my head up against the wall for years about both of my parents, until I accepted their limitations, and now I try my best to work peacefully within those limits, my mother though right now especially is on time-out. She did something not OK related to my parenting plan that could have had serious repercussions. Through distance over many months now I am just starting to find some empathy for her not being well, and that includes her massive absence in our life and her being entirely unable to admit that she's far away and not present even by phone.

I don't give my two cents too much about his mother and/or his relationship with his mother. On occassion she calls me, I am cordial and kind; try to be positive. She will say things like "well my son rarely calls me, I suppose he does not want a relationship with his mother, then what can I do.....?" which is of course an attempt to manipulate me to get to my husband. I always give grace in those moments, even though I see the manipulation. My husband does not speak with his younger brother for nine years. I cannot help but wonder if his mother works to divide her sons. The younger son is clearly the favored son, which bugs my husband. I believe it possible she could seek to punish my husband by disinheriting him, which could mean the younger brother gets everything (few million) and my husband gets nothing.

My husband sees this as a possibility but he's like 'Whatever.' Maybe she leaves it all to the Sierra Club, who knows. It belongs to her and the step father (who has no children of his own)...its their money to disburse. We will be fine with or without. He knows he cannot control what she does and he will not be held hostage over an inheritance because he does recognize that she dangles that carrot for attention and it is manipulation and an attempt to control behavior of both sons.

She shows zero interest in working on herself and she is 75 so its not going to happen. So I stay out of it unless my husband needs to vent about it or specifically asks for my thoughts.

The sad thing is her 3rd husband (the step father some 35 years now) is the quintissential blue pill nice man. My mother-in-law is rude to him often just in the few interactions I've seen, and travels often without him (goes to Europe or scuba diving etc. with a widowed best girlfriend.) The step father is kind and has always been kind to my husband and to me. My mother-in-law remains a remarkably attractive woman even at an advanced age and she has used her looks as leverage to get what she wants from men all her adult life as far as I can gather. My husband sees this and that is not the kind of marriage he ever wants. He finds it weird they don't travel as a couple but guesses that his step father welcomes the breaks from his mother.

Quite interesting as this was very different than the dynamic I grew up with.

 

[Divorced w 3]

I don't give my two cents too much about his mother and/or his relationship with his mother. On occassion she calls me, I am cordial and kind; try to be positive. She will say things like "well my son rarely calls me, I suppose he does not want a relationship with his mother, then what can I do.....?" which is of course an attempt to manipulate me to get to my husband. I always give grace in those moments, even though I see the manipulation. My husband does not speak with his younger brother for nine years. I cannot help but wonder if his mother works to divide her sons. The younger son is clearly the favored son, which bugs my husband. I believe it possible she could seek to punish my husband by disinheriting him, which could mean the younger brother gets everything (few million) and my husband gets nothing.

My husband sees this as a possibility but he's like 'Whatever.' Maybe she leaves it all to the Sierra Club, who knows. It belongs to her and the step father (who has no children of his own)...its their money to disburse. We will be fine with or without. He knows he cannot control what she does and he will not be held hostage over an inheritance because he does recognize that she dangles that carrot for attention and it is manipulation and an attempt to control behavior of both sons.

She shows zero interest in working on herself and she is 75 so its not going to happen. So I stay out of it unless my husband needs to vent about it or specifically asks for my thoughts.

The sad thing is her 3rd husband (the step father some 35 years now) is the quintissential blue pill nice man. My mother-in-law is rude to him often just in the few interactions I've seen, and travels often without him (goes to Europe or scuba diving etc. with a widowed best girlfriend.) The step father is kind and has always been kind to my husband and to me. My mother-in-law remains a remarkably attractive woman even at an advanced age and she has used her looks as leverage to get what she wants from men all her adult life as far as I can gather. My husband sees this and that is not the kind of marriage he ever wants. He finds it weird they don't travel as a couple but guesses that his step father welcomes the breaks from his mother.

Quite interesting as this was very different than the dynamic I grew up with.

That's a bummer on all accounts. My father, I am pretty sure, wrote me out of his estate when I told him to shove it and that he was on ice for potentially eternity for his wife's loose lips related to my parenting situation in the height of my divorce (and by extension, his wife who wasn't present at this encounter). Kind of wish I had not done that. I have since apologized, but I have received no confirmation that he has brought me back into the plan. He won't even let me crash at the beach house by myself. He holds grudges, his pride was hurt and that's his burden to bare. It's obviously not just a burden in his relations with me and so I look for empathy for him and see him in the best way I can.

I used to be POA and Executor, but nobody will give me color one way or the other. What can you do at this point but attempt to learn an expensive lesson. Problem is that I did not learn that lesson for another couple years, related to irritability, and vulnerability, etc, but I think finally I have some traction related to it. As I said above, thanks to the greater wisdom of seeing opportunity in all angles.

 

[BeExcellent]

The lesson, truly, is that you cannot worry about things someone might do for you if those things come with bindings attached. Will the money help? Of course.

But if my husband has to be a dancing monkey to get it? Well that is not going to happen. He is a dancing monkey for no one.

And I respect him for that.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The lesson, truly, is that you cannot worry about things someone might do for you if those things come with bindings attached. Will the money help? Of course.

But if my husband has to be a dancing monkey to get it? Well that is not going to happen. He is a dancing monkey for no one.

And I respect him for that.

I agree - it is always better to be self sufficient. Having a healthy relationship depends on one’s ability to be resilient with fortitude, resources and with a support network of one’s own making.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Just catching up with this thread and wanted to say out of all the threads I've read here, this one is truly the best and so inspiring whether one has an acrimonious relationship with a parent or a harmonious one.

My relationship with my mom growing up was not a good one, she was quite abusive, think Mommie Dearest - cutting off my hair at one pont, locking me in a small closet for hours, etc.

Physically I vividly recall her choking me on she and my dad's bedroom floor until my brother heard and stopped her.

It was really bad.

I wasn't even a bad kid, but my dad adored me (being the only girl) and in retrospect I think she was jealous but anyway...

I was a terrible daughter in return, I was not there for her when she needed me or while she was terminally ill and suffering or on her death bed.

I had to shut out all emotion re her, it was how I learned to cope and emotionally survive.

That said, after she died I nearly had a breakdown for not being there for her.

@New_Journey post to @Divorced w 3 resonated with me so much - how she did the best she could with the tools she had learned, probably from her own parents.

I try to always remember that.

I've been through so much since she passed and one thing I learned is forgiveness is so powerful! Not for them as much as for yourself!

I still have my moments but forgiveness really gets me through no matter how horrible she was to me.

She also had a beautiful caring side too which often gets lost amid all the abuse and bad treatment.

I try to remember that too..

 

[Sega Genesis]

That conditioned your brain that when a guy mimics your moms behavior you are drawn to them...

On some level yes, it was familiar to me, my "normal." However, I drew the line at physical abuse, that was my boundary.

However fortunately I've taken great strides to overcome this toxic pattern through therapy etc and now today I feel like a completely different person!

I'm still drawn to strength and confidence but I value kindness and thoughtfulness now ... ironically qualities my dad possessed!

 

[Sega Genesis]

Same way you forgave your mom, its the same exact way you gotta forgive yourself...

So true! Still working on this, it's not easy!

 

[Sophisticator]

 

[Sega Genesis]

View attachment 14005

Haha I second this!!

 

[jhonny9546]

redeeming qualities in that person.

It could be a double-edged sword: a person who does something wrong and then shows you that he has these qualities, could weaken you and make you become too compliant every time he makes a mistake. (This is the case of manipulative Borderlines who can go from witches to sweet Barbies depending on the moment)

you need to make a list of a few things you

That makes sense. Now you made me very curious to know what the point "3" of your list would look like.

Haha I second this!!

So you came to a point where you are "conciously" repress a physically violent man for a kind and good one, but you would like him to dominate you in bed, because of that experience you had with your mother? Are you finding that domination satysfing for you? What if He won't do that, would you search that by cheating or you'd be tempted to if you are in presence of a violent man?

@BeExcellent Have you ever done a description of your all LTR's men somewhere in the forum?

 

[BeExcellent]

It could be a double-edged sword: a person who does something wrong and then shows you that he has these qualities, could weaken you and make you become too compliant every time he makes a mistake. (This is the case of manipulative Borderlines who can go from witches to sweet Barbies depending on the moment)

That makes sense. Now you made me very curious to know what the point "3" of your list would look like.

So you came to a point where you are "conciously" repress a physically violent man for a kind and good one, but you would like him to dominate you in bed, because of that experience you had with your mother? Are you finding that domination satysfing for you? What if He won't do that, would you search that by cheating or you'd be tempted to if you are in presence of a violent man?

@BeExcellent Have you ever done a description of your all LTR's men somewhere in the forum?

Somewhere yeas ago I think I listed descriptors. Would have been prior to meeting my husband if memory serves. It could be in the Independent Women thread that The Duke started; or perhaps it is in the unicorn thread (How to Spot a Unicorn). Honestly I'm not sure.

 

[Sega Genesis]

So you came to a point where you are "conciously" repress a physically violent man for a kind and good one, but you would like him to dominate you in bed, because of that experience you had with your mother? Are you finding that domination satysfing for you? What if He won't do that, would you search that by cheating or you'd be tempted to if you are in presence of a violent man?

Dude I think you read WAY too much into my response.

First off none of my partners were violent men, not sure where you got that. I drew the line at physical abuse I posted that.

Secondly, I took @Sophisticator meme as tongue-in-cheek and responded in kind (hence my haha).

But to answer your question, what happens in the bedroom is completely separate from outside the bedroom and yes I do find being dominated in the bedroom a turn on, it's a primal thing ... for me. For both of us!

As far as cheating, no. If my partner and I are not compatible in the bedroom than we break up.

The End.

 

[Sophisticator]

Secondly, I took @Sophisticator meme as tongue-in-cheek and responded in kind (hence my haha).

God no, I was deadly serious.

@jhonny9546, you don't need to pry in someone's sex life and make assumptions just because you perceive them as kinky. Frankly, my relationship with @Sega Genesis is none of your business.

 

[Divorced w 3]

It could be a double-edged sword: a person who does something wrong and then shows you that he has these qualities, could weaken you and make you become too compliant every time he makes a mistake. (This is the case of manipulative Borderlines who can go from witches to sweet Barbies depending on the moment)

That's where you get an opportunity to learn about yourself and grow.

Separate the person's goodness from their shortcomings; look at that situation and say, 'you may be a wonderful person 90% of the time, but in that 10% you're a liar, a manipulator, you push me to the edge and it's taking a toll on me, and I'm letting you go because you aren't willing to address it.'

Often times, a bad relationship like this, that gets inside your inner soul and emotional makeup, can be the ugly but necessary catalyst to help you find the flaws in your own self and if you're lucky, you do the work.

 

[jhonny9546]

'you may be a wonderful person 90% of the time, but in that 10% you're a liar, a manipulator, you push me to the edge and it's taking a toll on me, and I'm letting you go because you aren't willing to address it.'

Okay, this is exactly where I wanted to get to.
I am someone who explains to people why they made a mistake, but I don't want to be seen as someone who forces people to see it that way. (Impose my POV like an obligation).

What you write is correct, but for a healthy relationship and healthy communication, it should be rewritten from your perspective. If you feel manipulated, this makes you feel abused because this person has many virtues, and this flaw makes you feel that way. This could also be a virtue if this person became aware of it and worked on it.

How you present it makes a huge difference.
In my opinion, your version lacks the right communication.
It seems passive-aggressive, and that is what damaged girls often respond well to, but not the healthy ones.

What about saying this in the nonviolent comunication version? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

 

[Sophisticator]

What about saying this in the nonviolent comunication version? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonviolent_Communication

Just rewrite it in First Person:

'you may be a wonderful person 90% of the time, but in that 10% you're a liar, a manipulator, you push me to the edge and it's taking a toll on me, and I'm letting you go because you aren't willing to address it.'

'I am uncomfortable with your behaviour, I have told you what makes me upset, but I sense an unwillingness in you to address your issues. For my personal mental health, I have to step away from you and give you room to address this in your own time.'

You don't have to tell a liar and manipulator that they lie and manipulate. They know already. You choose to stay away from negative people so you can keep your own mental health in a good shape. That's it, you're not obligated in any way to be around negative people.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Just rewrite it in First Person:

'I am uncomfortable with your behaviour, I have told you what makes me upset, but I sense an unwillingness in you to address your issues. For my personal mental health, I have to step away from you and give you room to address this in your own time.'

You don't have to tell a liar and manipulator that they lie and manipulate. They know already. You choose to stay away from negative people so you can keep your own mental health in a good shape. That's it, you're not obligated in any way to be around negative people.

That’s a great rewrite.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I was always taught that when communicating negative feelings, it's best to use "I feel" comments versus "YOU made me feel" or "YOU are [fill in the blank]".

"I feel manipulated when ....."

"I feel hurt when ...."

"I feel pushed to the edge when ...."

However being realistic, in the heat of an argument when emotions are running high, it's not always so easy to think rationally enough to react so "politically correctly." For both people!

And does it really matter? In my experience whether I said "I feel manipulated" or "You are a manipulator" he still felt criticized either way!

I dunno why not just say how you feel? Be real.

Have it out and deal with it.

 

[Barrister]

OP,

What you are describing is a Cluster B Narcissist type of behavior. Typically, they are love-bombers in early stage dating. Once they get a foothold (moving in, getting pregnant, getting a ring, having the baby, etc.), the behavior immediately changes to one of extreme criticism/ridicule. Suddenly, you as the man can do nothing right in her eyes and she will let you know about it. If you try to reason with her, you are derided further. Once you hit this point with the narcissist, you are past the point of no return as far as having an enjoyable relationship.

If you threaten to end things (i.e. using "dread game"), you can typically rein them back in a bit at least for a temporary time. But it doesn't last. Unfortunately, the only remedy to these types is to axe them and move on to the next. I am sure a lot of us (me included) have experienced this before. You simply need to move on and not waste time.

 

[BeExcellent]

One thing @jhonny9546 that I notice as a trend in your content is that you tend to utilize and refer to sweeping generalizations about women as though they are objectively true.

You'll say things like, "Well you are a woman and women are emotional not logical......" and you'll try and use those generalizations to attempt to invalidate something on that basis.

This is not only lazy, but it is false logic. It is a false logic that arises from your belief system (Belief: Women are always emotional and never logical).

This belief system blinds you to reality and means a logical, well reasoned woman will run circles around you before you realize it - all because your belief system holds you as 'superior'.

Generalizations exist because they bear out as often true; but they are not always true. Take the time & make the effort to assess the individual rather than rely on your belief system.