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What's the most you've ever lost in your Investments?

Poonani Maker

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Me? $15K. Haven't sold the final stocks to realize that loss yet, but I've been holding for 10 years! The majority of the loss is Betting Against Bonds (double leveraged), so with the never-ending PRINTING of the FED to prop up the bond market OR ELSE doomsday!! I can't win this battle. They have unlimited corruption, thus I must capitulate. Plus Trump and his cronies, Today even, are BEGGING the FED to lower interest rates yet again!!! to ensure his re-election by via a false (or phony) stock market. Considering just cutting my losses tonight or soon. Makes me kinda sick. I've been holding this massive short for 10 years! I double-downed back in 2010-2011.
 

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synergy1

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I lost around the same amount trying to short the market. Like you, I tried fighting the fed into what looked like a slowing global/ US economy, as well as slowing US earnings. Once the fed pivoted dovish and cut rates, than started its next round of QE, all of the money went into stocks. I cut all my losses. the largest loss was around 6k.

I too was too slow to cut losses, and have been much faster doing so. For example, I tried shorting the QQQ etf via SQQQ, but took my loss a around 6%...it would be down an additional 5% if I had held on. Another example was UWT which i cut my loss at 7%. However this trade would be down probably close to 40% had I not stuck to that rule.

And yes, if there is one message anyone can get from our collective experiences is not to fight the fed. They will prop up the stock market *at all costs*. Overnight repo markets have been facinating since starting in Sept 2019 (they were supposed to be temporary) - stocks like apple, microsoft and tesla have literally gone parabolic. This is additional money which is hiding away in US stocks. I still don't think this will end well, but have changed my strategy from betting against the fed.
 

logicallefty

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My highest loss on a single trade is $614.00. This was a couple years ago when I was trying to day trade random stocks using Suretrader so I could avoid the PDT rule, and had no clue what I was doing. It has taken me about 3 x years to finally see some consistency in my trading. Lately I've been day trading ETFs for oil, natural gas, and gold, both long and the inverse. I have gotton to where I can make 1-2% on a single trade probably 9 out of 10 times. Consistency is key. They say making $50 x 10 times for $500 total is better than making $1000 x 1 time for $1000 total. Rinse repeat rinse repeat, that's my goal.

I have wondered how much corruption and manipulation goes on from the market makers. I've seen some stocks make some moves that make me wonder who's sitting there on some computer messing with my trade. That's why I like ETFs, I don't see this behavior like I used to on regular stocks.
 

Poonani Maker

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I lost around the same amount trying to short the market. Like you, I tried fighting the fed into what looked like a slowing global/ US economy, as well as slowing US earnings. Once the fed pivoted dovish and cut rates, than started its next round of QE, all of the money went into stocks. I cut all my losses. the largest loss was around 6k.

I too was too slow to cut losses, and have been much faster doing so. For example, I tried shorting the QQQ etf via SQQQ, but took my loss a around 6%...it would be down an additional 5% if I had held on. Another example was UWT which i cut my loss at 7%. However this trade would be down probably close to 40% had I not stuck to that rule.

And yes, if there is one message anyone can get from our collective experiences is not to fight the fed. They will prop up the stock market *at all costs*. Overnight repo markets have been facinating since starting in Sept 2019 (they were supposed to be temporary) - stocks like apple, microsoft and tesla have literally gone parabolic. This is additional money which is hiding away in US stocks. I still don't think this will end well, but have changed my strategy from betting against the fed.
yeah, it's kinda a "the next 'crash' is gonna be the muther of all crashes" and all will be crumbled to burning building desolate chaos never seen before, soooo I couldn't capitalize on a Bond explosion anyway cause the dollar would probably quickly be vaporized as well, but I just assumed that since for DECADES treasury bonds were 5-7% (tax-free investment to boot) that it would HAVE to return there in a couple more years, but we are at 10 years floating from 1.9 to 3.2% (the majority of the time at 2-somthing) Trillions and Trillions of dark pooled debt will NEVER be reversed thus they must continue to be the Lender of last resort (and Own EVERYTHING = Us all, killing us even literally). So, I'll be defensive until a fake crash then jump back in, but if there is a end of all being crashes, then well, I have a plan but it would have to be executed quickly because I believe All assets (even the ones I speculate to jump into after the mother of all) will descend - nothing would be left untouched (I'm talking about other countries which is where I'd be looking to shift to).

My point is, that I was ignorant to bet against the Fed and thus against bonds, because we are in the days of IF it does all come down, we won't be able to profit off of it because Nothing will be valuable, even the US dollar. That was my error, but I just started investing in 2010 so I had no track record and no experience in how news stories affect the market (they don't really), or how other peoples' 'Advice' is not a very good investing strategy, but your OWN intensive study IS the best counsel. There are so many idiots out there, you must listen to yourself. When I did, I made money. TVIX back then swiped $4K from my pockets in 1 week (I was listening to the "Euro Crises" then which of course they paved over with paper from the central banks there as well and austerity - privatizing their utilities raping the people in Greece). I did that trade listening to someone close to me I held in VERY high esteem, an engineer I knew then with patents on Swiss watches and who had an extremely good way with words and speeches. Enough of that.
 

Poonani Maker

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I have wondered how much corruption and manipulation goes on from the market makers. I've seen some stocks make some moves that make me wonder who's sitting there on some computer messing with my trade. That's why I like ETFs, I don't see this behavior like I used to on regular stocks.
I agree, it happened twice to me in a span of 10 minutes. My stop loss got triggered, I believe by a high frequency trading computer walking the price right down to where I set it, then I set another trade right after that same stop-loss price point and it walked right to the cent down again and triggered it. That's when I gave up after losing 1000s in the week before. I'm up in a couple others over 100% still, but I've already bled out $15K in other stuff over 10 years so, it's all so very painful, but I can absorb it because I knew going in that I was just playing around with 30K to see what 'I' could do in a choppy market. I have a system of trading small-cap high beta stocks and it worked well then, but like you said, the high frequency trading and I believe that THEY, the crooks they are these investment houses, can SEE your orders (stop losses, trailing stop losses, etc) and act on it. I've thought about trying to win back all my money using my formula I'd used then to focus on only 200 stocks at stockcharts.com If I'd just stuck with 2 solid sure bets I'd be well-ahead right now, but I got too tangled in other stuff so I had to quit in 2011. I can tell you one of them was MWA. I traded for a quick 20% gain, but now it is 3X (at $12) what I jumped in at $4 then. I would still trade that if I had the balls to trade anymore. After reading a few financial books the past year, I think that ETFs or Index funds are the way to go even though everybody knows they're the way to go and now most of pension funds, retirement, etc are stuck in them, which may be a sitting duck for some unscrupulous billionaire or billionaires who could swoop in and steal it all one day. It's a be where other people ain't.
 
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synergy1

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I believe by a high frequency trading computer walking the price right down to where I set it, then I set another trade right after that same stop-loss price point and it walked right to the cent down again and triggered it.
My studies, observations, and discussions with real traders suggest this. A few examples: The first is the typical support point ( which is usually the bottom of a base), or a low of that base. Very often lately we have seen retests undercutting said levels to shake out the people w/ stop losses. Seem this as well with moving averages where many use them as support or resistance levels depending on the trend. I look for the undercut (which is the shakeout) and rally. Its all easy to see after the fact, but I am still getting the hang of it. I too get stopped out often.

To logicallefty, it sounds like you got the right idea. Sounds like the turtle traders who had a good system, but I am simply guessing and don't want to make assumptions about your system. Either way, sounds solid and best of luck to you!

Poonani Maker, what type of system do you use? Fundamentals? Technical? Both?

Last note about the fed- As you pointed out about the 10 year yields, its been in a multi-decade bear market. This is largely, IMO, a product of the fed. Look at Japan - same thing. Their yields are negative, and the BOJ is the only one buying their debt! Its nuts. But a lesson we can learn about japan is that they have had many decades of 100%+ dept to GDP, and have had the BOJ basically buying all their debt....so they can keep the game going for decades. I do not see the american central banks stopping their actions which include low rates, and quantative easing.

If this ends, it ends badly. I am buying small amounts of physical gold and silver as insurance. I plan to keep this < 10% of my total net worth, but I rest well at night knowing I have something ( not much!) completely out of the. I am not a gold bug, but like to have something I know will have some value for the rest of my life.
 

Poonani Maker

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Poonani Maker, what type of system do you use? Fundamentals? Technical? Both?
BOTH. Toward the end of those trading years (just 2) I'd avoided high-debt companies as I'd lost it ALL in a high-debt small cap when they went bankrupt (But this was another "listening to others" trade, not my own decision), so that with other fundamentals from viewing the EDGAR study was Always researched (like what I'd done in college for my major in Finance), the other half of my research derived from a formula (or a couple of formulas altered from the main one) I used on Stockcharts.com to bring back just a handful of stocks under a certain market cap (that investment houses hadn't noticed yet and thus big money hadn't come in yet). I had a mentor that I'd paid to gain these methods (oversold, swing trading, the candles all that sh!t) and system. All stocks regularly had a beta of 2 or higher (thus volatile) BUT one of the stocks I'm currently in as of this still from way back then has a beta that in 2010 was 2 or higher, but NOW is under 1 (thus more stable). You wanna talk about a stock that's had some wild, WILD as5 fvcking swings it's that one, but I never swing-traded it and just held (a long). It has ALWAYS bounced back for 10 years and now is 3 times as high as when I doubled down. If I'd sold and bought sold and bought as my original "plan" was to do with this stock(s) and not waivered from the plan sticking to it, then I'd be up thousands today and not down $15K. I just wanted out way back then, the stress was too distracting and was eating away at my concentration in my main source of income, my primary job. Out of 100s of stocks I'd study nightly after work for 4 hrs thus making my "work day" (though this was kinda fun for me - no wife, no kids) 16-18 hours a day all totaled up, I'd only select 2 out of ALL of em worthy enough to confidently place my bets (even then scary stuff). When I started laxing my criteria to try to trade outside this narrow selection discipline, I lost, so don't ever give a dog a bone, or a company a bone. You must be like a Roman soldier staying in formation shield to shield and with short sword walking forward.

I got extremely Lucky come tax time 2011 when I went switched from my usual HR Block to another run-of-the-mill tax preparer like Liberty Tax, but I forget the name at this moment, it was in a Wal-Mart, and the woman there was Pug-Dog ugly (it was like high school cafeteria tables set up), married, but I guess because of my salary (and Looks), she though accounting-like the whole time was REALLY into me and telling me about her life (depressed) trying to get her hooks in me. I mean, I'd fvck her but that's it. Anyway, we were there for HOURS as she entered in EVERY trade I'd done (100s), I was like wtf just sitting there she wanted to be with me all night, and the charge for all that work was LESS than what I've paid in recent years with a whole lot less forms as I haven't traded since 2011 once again. I got lucky, tax preparation was under $100. I couldn't believe it, her throwing me all these bones (discounts). I know that was a one-off and that if I went back to trading that the next year's tax preparation would be much higher than that one time. It was strictly, she liked me and wanted to retain me as a customer.
 

logicallefty

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@Poonani Maker lol talking about your tax lady. True story. March 2012. I went to HR Block and ended up getting my tax lady's number. A week later went to her place and on the first night I piped her all night. We were laying in bed between rounds, she was smoking. An HR block commercial came on. I said "Huh! They been good to me this year!" She playfully hit me in the arm, and back at it we went! We had a fling for a couple months.
 

Poonani Maker

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Two truths:

1) can’t game the market. We can only index it over the long term.

2) never trust Republicans to be responsible with the economy.
1) I agree, if you get in Early or you'll be cry trying to catch a falling knife. Right now, 4X 2008 levels is asinine considering the layoffs, the non-participation rate in the workforce, stagnant wages, false numbers, and stock buybacks with phony US dollars digitally entered in to a computer screen (it's EASY when you're the world's reserve...until you are not! (falling knife)).

2) You can't trust ANY of them. Do you think Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton etc etc DESERVE over 100 million? Well me neither, but they got it NOT from their government salaries, but SERIOUS corruption on the job, not the selling of goods n' services or stock-buying (Insider Trading is ALLOWED for government employees though, not us, just them). Swindling is an American way of life, people were HIRED in the 1920s by tycoons if they could Demonstrate that they had done a Swindle on a grand scale. A business magnate would only continue LISTENING to a man who walked into his office or home to SPEAK with him IF he could display how he snatched millions from some entity some person and told him the REAL scoop of what happened to so n' so or such n' such. "You're Hired!" "go down to my secretary and tell her how much you want for your salary, name your wage." If the man believed in his ability to Swindle, then he'd select a modest salary or maybe even a ridiculous $10 a week so the entire office and company word getting around would accept this new guy. He'd know that with this Rich tycoon's coffers that he could pull off a MASSIVE Swindle and wouldn't even need a salary. I think it was Trump these last few years that has waived his salary for the office of President, no? Since the 1920s and EARLY this EXACT method has been going on, even before the 20s, this Ongoing SWINDLE of the masses. No one notices.
 
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AAAgent

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I've lost $100k in financial markets trading leveraged gold miners. This was my way of shorting the markets and i held on for almost 4 years before i gave up and cut my losses. Markets will continue to rocket with interest rates being lowered and most likely additional QE of some sort.

I've lost a few million in the crypto markets but not before I made out very well. Still a heavily manipulated space but less so by bankers and governments yet. Very easy to make money with good knowledge of the space.

Overall still significantly net positive with some painful learning experiences.
 

Poonani Maker

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I've lost $100k in financial markets trading leveraged gold miners. This was my way of shorting the markets and i held on for almost 4 years before i gave up and cut my losses. Markets will continue to rocket with interest rates being lowered and most likely additional QE of some sort.

I've lost a few million in the crypto markets but not before I made out very well. Still a heavily manipulated space but less so by bankers and governments yet. Very easy to make money with good knowledge of the space.

Overall still significantly net positive with some painful learning experiences.
yeah, my net positive is my home - over $145K profit (but that wasn't intentional or deliberate I just needed a home way back then)
 

Bible_Belt

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1) can’t game the market. We can only index it over the long term.
I had an account in the green at all three jobs I had day trading other people's money in the stock market. All three companies went bust, but it wasn't my fault. Trading is very difficult and the vast majority of people fail, but not everyone. If that random walk bs that they teach in college was true, then there would be no such thing as a profitable trader.
 

synergy1

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I had an account in the green at all three jobs I had day trading other people's money in the stock market. All three companies went bust, but it wasn't my fault. Trading is very difficult and the vast majority of people fail, but not everyone. If that random walk bs that they teach in college was true, then there would be no such thing as a profitable trader.
Yup the more I do it, the harder it gets. I had a string of bad trades so I got mostly out. Good one you for being good at this. mad respect.



leveraged gold miners.

I am watching these as well ( maybe not the levered ones), but they are not quite tracking the performance of gold. I want to be long them in the event of a recession or global credit crunch. But they are very volatile.
 

Poonani Maker

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but they are not quite tracking the performance of gold. I want to be long them in the event of a recession or global credit crunch. But they are very volatile.
yeah I learned the hard way to be sure to buy Only index funds that track well, but right now I am ultra defensive cause the market is so "toppy," there are guys who've followed my lead going on 3-4 years now and they're mad at me (won't even speak) because they've missed out on so much gains, oh well, well, I'm waiting for the elections but am bleeding so bad in anti-market stuff that I may have to take this huge loss, hey it'll lower my taxes, eh?
 
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Roober

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I followed a system that was heavily based in REITs and dividend cycling that was getting me consistent 20-25% returns for about 3 years.

I stopped following my own rules and paid much less attention to them. What would have been a 5k loss turned into 50k when the REITS got hit hard a couple years back.

I also invested about a year of my life and 80k into a business venture (restaurant). I had to walk away because it was a really bad deal for me. The partners tried to renegotiate, but i was too soured by the situation to continue.
 

synergy1

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yeah I learned the hard way to be sure to buy Only index funds that track well, but right now I am ultra defensive cause the market is so "toppy," there are guys who've followed my lead going on 3-4 years now and they're mad at me (won't even speak) because they've missed out on so much gains, oh well, well, I'm waiting for the elections but am bleeding so bad in anti-market stuff that I may have to take this huge loss, hey it'll lower my taxes, eh?
I took a few bigger losses this year after being wrong for longer than I wanted to. It hurt, but it felt liberating as well.

As for these markets, I totally agree they feel toppy; what gets me is how fast stocks have moved up since 9/17/19 which coincides when the repurchase markets started needing additional fed assistance. So for example, regular repo ops were around 5 billion dollars per day prior to sept 17 of last year. After 9/17, they started doing*on average* 50 billion dollars, with 12 instances over 100 billion dollars per day! They did this because repurchase rates went well above the fed funds rate - the fed's target. The same thing happened in different overnight markets (the TED/ OIS spread blew up) in 2007, a full year before the well-known 2008 crash. After digging, I am starting to think that the mechanism we are observing now, and what happened back then are actually quite similar.

What I don't understand is why liquidity is drying up. Why did the overnight markets lock up? Go look at the feds involvement in the repo market, and you'll see exactly what I mean. (see https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/tomo-results-display?SHOWMORE=TRUE&startDate=01/01/2000&enddate=01/01/2000). Finally the fed is usually lagging, so if they are doing things like cutting rates or stepping in to provide liquidity, the failure of the stability of the global financial system would be further along than what we are seeing.

My thought longer-term on markets is to be careful. Something is broken...
 

Poonani Maker

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I took a few bigger losses this year after being wrong for longer than I wanted to. It hurt, but it felt liberating as well.

As for these markets, I totally agree they feel toppy; what gets me is how fast stocks have moved up since 9/17/19 which coincides when the repurchase markets started needing additional fed assistance. So for example, regular repo ops were around 5 billion dollars per day prior to sept 17 of last year. After 9/17, they started doing*on average* 50 billion dollars, with 12 instances over 100 billion dollars per day! They did this because repurchase rates went well above the fed funds rate - the fed's target. The same thing happened in different overnight markets (the TED/ OIS spread blew up) in 2007, a full year before the well-known 2008 crash. After digging, I am starting to think that the mechanism we are observing now, and what happened back then are actually quite similar.

What I don't understand is why liquidity is drying up. Why did the overnight markets lock up? Go look at the feds involvement in the repo market, and you'll see exactly what I mean. (see https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/tomo-results-display?SHOWMORE=TRUE&startDate=01/01/2000&enddate=01/01/2000). Finally the fed is usually lagging, so if they are doing things like cutting rates or stepping in to provide liquidity, the failure of the stability of the global financial system would be further along than what we are seeing.

My thought longer-term on markets is to be careful. Something is broken...
 
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