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What would happen in a BPD-ASPD relationship?

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Don Juan
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If a female who has some degree of BPD and a male who has some form of ASPD/Sociopathy (basically, two people with Cluster B traits), were to date or enter into a 'relationship', how would that look?

Would the male be relatively unfazed by the females attempts at manipulations, mind games and mood swings?

Could they have a mutual respect for one another and make the relationship work? I think I read somewhere that BPD's subconsciously need and seek men with ASPD behaviours and this is the only set up that could work.

Or would they eventually cannibalise each other with their deceitful natures?
 

Julian

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the last sentence is correct.

To be with a BPD chick you need to be a cold hearted pimp. Eventually the screws will come loose on these chicks tho so they need to be continously tightened which can be exhaustive. so no matter how unfazed etc..its not gonna matter when your driving 60mph down the road and she has a mental episode and starts double kicking your windshield from her seated position and scratching herself and oh look a cop just witnessed that commotion and she is saying you were hurting her and now your ASPD ass is going to jail
 

Asmodeus

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If a female who has some degree of BPD and a male who has some form of ASPD/Sociopathy (basically, two people with Cluster B traits), were to date or enter into a 'relationship', how would that look?
Well, I have direct experience in this... I have wrote on this subject here before.

Would the male be relatively unfazed by the females attempts at manipulations, mind games and mood swings?
Yes. In fact, it becomes a bit of strange game. Pushing buttons to see the responses, then using their fear of abandonment against them. It is like you know they will not just leave, that they will just keep taking it and running on a repeat cycle through idealization/devaluation.

Could they have a mutual respect for one another and make the relationship work? I think I read somewhere that BPD's subconsciously need and seek men with ASPD behaviours and this is the only set up that could work.
ASPD seems to go through the same exact patterns in relationships. This is something I have personally observed in and learned more about in the conversations with numerous other people with it and those who have been in relationships with the. This includes love bombing at first, then going through a kind of spiral of ever increasing controls and abuse (gaslighting) followed by dowsing. This is behaviorism a psychological manipulation, a kind of conditioning similar to what was observed by B.F. Skinner and induction of a feeling of learned helplessness. You erode her reality by making her think what she is experiencing is not so bad, causing a gradual acceptance of the abuses. It is very hard for me to explain all this to you... You would need a PhD in psychology to get it all. I will just say that ASPD men without any knowledge of psychology or any experience in such apply these very complex mind games and psychological manipulations almost unconsciously as if they were master psychotherapists. I say unconsciously as it is just something that is done, people assume that ASPD cases plan all this out but it is actually something that is innate and done without even realizing it.

The two pathologies of ASPD and BPD kind of attract each other. The BPD girl has traits that ASPD men like in how intense and sexual she is, also she initially idealized the other person feeding into the narcissism and need to be approved that ASPD has. The ASPD guy love bombs at first, flooding the woman with affection and making them think as though they are special, this is what the BPD girl with her fear of abandonment desires. Both of them tend to be reckless and impulsive, but also accepting of the others impulsiveness. Imagine a bust of passionate chaos... The BPD girl responds much better to the gaslighting and dowsing. Her fear of abandonment and her senses off self emptiness (which is a trait in ASPD also) and her unstable self-image are very easy for the guy with ASPD to manipulate. However, the BPD girl is far less affected by the abuses, despite having more intense emotional reactions they typically do not internalize things as they are use to chaos and stormy emotional lives.

However...

Or would they eventually cannibalise each other with their deceitful natures?
This... These kinds of relationships end up becoming highly pathological. Typically becoming very abusive. But this is of course typical in both ASPD and BPD relationshps in general. However, it becomes magnified when both parties take part in the manipulaitons and abuse. Suh a thing can only last so long before it becomes too much

It is very complex dynamics and hard to explain everything. However, I will say that BPD girls tend to not have as much of a long term negative effect on ASPD men. I see so many posts here and elsewhere about men who need to "recover" from it, but for ASPD there was never that kind of attachment. Also, the BPD does not suffer so much as she devalues the individual with ASPD and is thus able to move on easily
 

Asmodeus

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I will also say that ASPD is a very complex disorder and the more I lean about it the more I am starting to recognize it as a set of different things with some overlapping commonalities (but then again ASPD and BPD share some commonalities). Therefore I am generalizing some things about ASPD whenever I discuss it however these do tend to be general trends. On one hand you have the very isolated avoidant ASPD case which is truly anti-social being that they do not even typically socialize (having traits of avoidant personality), but on the other hand you have very charismatic and social ones which people do not typically associate with it. There is even more complexity than just that... ASPD and even BPD (which is too frequently misdiagnosed as they both share so many traits) exist on a vast spectrum of multiple traits rather than as easily defined individual categories. I believe the DSM is rubbish as it tries to classify things into neatly fitted categories, when really things are not so simple. People think that everybody thinks the same as them, even psychologists cannot rationalize anything beyond things that are rational to them. They can only infer about things, theorize, and relate everything back to something that is rational. Their categories, their DSM all those attempts to try to classify abnormal behaviors are done simply because they cannot understand it, so thus they try to turn into concepts which make sense to them. Thus, the ultimate futility of psychology.
 

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whats the pathology of a ASPD stem from ?

@Asmodeus
 

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Bible_Belt

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driving 60mph down the road and she has a mental episode and starts double kicking your windshield from her seated position and scratching herself and oh look a cop just witnessed that commotion and she is saying you were hurting her and now your ASPD ass is going to jail
That's what happened to my cousin. He dumped her out on the shoulder of the expressway when she was flipping out on him in the car. When he got home, the cops were waiting on him, arrested him for beating her up, which he didn't do, and threw him in jail for three days, in which time he was fired from his job for not showing up. Of course there was no evidence at all. They never filed charges. They just let him go on the third day, because that is how long they are allowed to hold people without filing formal charges against them. It was St Louis where this happened, but I think it's the same in any big city. Pissing off the cops gets you clubbed in the back of the head and thrown in jail for three days, which is enough time for you to straighten up, fly right, and stop making them do work. And if it's the woman in your life causing the cops problems with made-up stories about you, then they are going to see it as your fault for not keeping your b!tch in line.
 

Asmodeus

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whats the pathology of a ASPD stem from ?

@Asmodeus
Good question that I and nobody else has any answer to... It could be bad genes, bad neurochemical balances and brain development, bad upbringing and bad traumatic experiences. The multitude of possible answers to this question are numerous.

Here is my theory on it.
Nature loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger. Basically, a person is born pre-disposed to certain neurological patterns and mental states. Just like a person can be born being pre-disposed to cancer or diabetes. But that alone in and of itself is insufficient... You need an input of environment, a traumatic or neglectful childhood or such. I know that most people with the condition have had a very screwed up experiences in their youth, it is a trend that is so consistent that it cannot be written off. But not everyone who experiences such ends up psychologically ill, so that involves some kind of predisposition to it.
 

El Payaso

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Think Joker and Harley Quinn. That's what you would get.
 

billtx49

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A relationship between a normal sane person and one that is borderline personality disordered is difficult at best, but most probably totally impossible.
Put two people together that have PD's and you get the stuff Hollywood movie thrillers are made of. Plenty of tension, anger, insane push/pull, everything turned upside down, physical violence, maybe even ending in suicide or murder. Things better seen in a movie, and not experienced in real life.
 
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Asmodeus

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Think Joker and Harley Quinn. That's what you would get.
That is actually a rather useful analogy... Those two characters are actually extreme representations of their respective psychological disorder. The Joker having an extreme case of ASPD of the worst possible subtype of ASPD (sadistic) and he also includes strong elements of histrionic personality disorder due to all the theatrics. Harley Quinn definitely has BPD being how much abandonment issues, poor impulse control by how she goes along with the jokers crazy schemes, idealization, ect. Their relationship is abusive and pathologic, certainly not based on any real love. Though they are extremes and fictionalized characters... I do think the Batman series of any comic series is the one that actually portrays psychology in a very interesting way, most characters are a caricature of various psychological illnesses.
 

Speculator E

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If a female who has some degree of BPD and a male who has some form of ASPD/Sociopathy (basically, two people with Cluster B traits), were to date or enter into a 'relationship', how would that look?

Would the male be relatively unfazed by the females attempts at manipulations, mind games and mood swings?

Could they have a mutual respect for one another and make the relationship work? I think I read somewhere that BPD's subconsciously need and seek men with ASPD behaviours and this is the only set up that could work.

Or would they eventually cannibalise each other with their deceitful natures?
BPD + ASPD are usually perfect matches. The reasons being:

ASPD takes nothing personally and BPD takes everything personally.
Psychopathic detachment can diffuse Borderline reactive rage;
Borderline extreme emotion can be sufficiently 'loud' to penetrate psychopathic flattened affect;
The non-judgmental approach of a psychopath can counter the black/white thinking of a Borderline, in the 'quiet' times when they're receptive to logic.
The self-confident psychopath won't care about any Borderline accusations or insults.

Psychopaths [no fear] aren't bothered about the 'walking on eggshells' aspect of Borderline.
And Borderlines usually appreciate the optimism and drive of the psychopath.

The only downside is the abandonment issues of the Borderline, since the psychopath....abandons, eventually.

And like I've said before. Sociopaths are the real definition of alpha males. You need to be one in order to handle a BPD.
 
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dude99

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If a female who has some degree of BPD and a male who has some form of ASPD/Sociopathy (basically, two people with Cluster B traits), were to date or enter into a 'relationship', how would that look?

Would the male be relatively unfazed by the females attempts at manipulations, mind games and mood swings?

Could they have a mutual respect for one another and make the relationship work? I think I read somewhere that BPD's subconsciously need and seek men with ASPD behaviours and this is the only set up that could work.

Or would they eventually cannibalise each other with their deceitful natures?
We had that in Canada. Paul Bernardo and karla homolka. They became a married couple that kidnapped and raped and murdered school girls.

It would be beyond ugly for two mentally messed cluster b's to hook up.
 
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