Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

What I've learned...

Drow

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Originally posted by oreo_renegade:

you want every1 to understand what you have, you must learn that they cant pook, every1 is different, people tihnk on different levels, if a person is dumb and happy, what could be the harm? you should let them stay the way they are, they might realize you opinions later on, theyll get bored of it soon enuff, and then they might seek a deeper meaning in life

it seems to me like you strive to make every1 try to understand what you know, but you have to let everyone learn on their own, your journey is what made the destinaion more rich for you pook

oreo_renegade,
Pook has helped me in so many ways in my life. He isn't striving to for us to understand what he knows, he is sharing his ideas with us through his own lifes experiences. He wants to help share with others the life he has by teaching us how to make the most of life. And there is much to learn.

A life where you arn't ALWAYS learning and always improving is a dull life indeed.

Pook, you have helped me realize so much about life in general, not just life with and about women. I find myself constantly coming back and rereading your posts. It helps me set my mind back on the right track which seems to be so easily adverted away. I wish I could personally thank you for all you have shared, as it is invaluable to me, and I am sure many others.
Thanks

Love life, and happiness will persue.

.Drow






[This message has been edited by Drow (edited 09-29-2002).]
 

cynetix

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Originally posted by SexPDX:
First, it's not about communicating your interest but INFLUENCING HERS. Your influence over a woman is the product of her attraction to you. Expressing your interest does nothing for you unless you demonstrate value to her.

Second, He acts like the number/date bit is his only option. If he is wants to communicate his interest like he (you actually) implies in that statement then why is content llet girls mop the floor with him playing phone number routlette while he neglects the much more effective path of having a tongue-down session and/or fvcking her on the spot.
Am I hearing this correctly SexPDX? The primary goal for you in life is to be "demonstrating value to her" ? Doesn't that seem backwards? Are you a string puppet to be played by the female? What's worse, are you the string puppet that believes it is not a string puppet, falsely thinking the opposite, that you are free?

"Communicating interest" is part of the human beat--however you want to seduce, or not seduce, or just be the AFC geek who pours the interest thick like gravy. You communicate interest because you must. The existence of "communicating" was never up for debate. HOW you do it (i.e., keeping true to yourself, by the tenets of Anti-Dump) was the subject that was open, not whether you should or not.
"Communicating" is not the goal of the man that pursues a woman, but only an intermediary step in the man's qualification process.

I will not reply to the second point as that is too personally directed at Pook/AD for me to get involved in. However, I disagree with your vantage point. (I suppose if you take issue with this evasion I could get riled up enough to speak about it...hehe.)

cynetix
 

Garp

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:::just don't shoot the messenger!:::

The primary goal in life is not demonstrating value, where do you come up with such nonsense assumptions? What PDX is saying is that in order to attract, you must demonstrate value, there is NO WAY AROUND THAT.
You guys who are speaking from an holier than thou attitude protecting the holy principles of AD with such religious fervor are idiots, self delusioned to thinking you are in control when you say "men approach" and "conversation focuses on her". Hypocritcal don't you think? You are succumbing to every prescribed societal dating dynamic handed down to you.
*****ing about the evils of feminism is ridiculous; I would hope that people don't go to a message board to become DJs to get meaning for their life.
Go to a church or something--this is just an exchange of information.
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by cynetix:
Am I hearing this correctly SexPDX? The primary goal for you in life is to be "demonstrating value to her" ?
No, apparently you did not hear it correctly. I don't know what it is about what I said that would prompt you to make a point about demonstrating value being a goal in life.

Originally posted by cynetix:

"Communicating interest" is part of the human beat--however you want to seduce, or not seduce, or just be the AFC geek who pours the interest thick like gravy. You communicate interest because you must.
Okay, yes, you do have to communicate interest at some point but it's not at all a focal point of seduction. Seduction is about influencing HER interest in you in a positive way and there is example after example of how communicating interest can influence her interest poorly. There are some cases where it's even not appropriate at all. For many women, untill she is at buying temperature (wanting to fvck you) you can't let her know she can have you. Now, Anti-Dump, Doc Love and people with similar views assume that if she isn't at buying temperature WITHOUT your having influenced it, there is NOTHING you can do and THAT is the attitude that I think is AFC and I will stick to that opinion regardless of how unpopular it may be among people who are in agreement with certain very dominant influences on this website.

Garp is right, with this attitude you are playing into all the societal thoughts and expectations about dating. This idea that you are somehow less than a man or "not alpha" because you do certain things consciously to influence her attraction to you is utter bullsh!t. Why don't some of you try to step outside your box and once in a while, WHEN IT IS TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, operate OUTSIDE this evolutionary model that entertains this notion of an alpha male. Now I am not saying don't be alpha, play right into that system WHEN it is to your advantage, but don't view any one model as the end all and be all of success with women.

------------------
- The performer known as Nick
 

Pook

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Pook opens his scroll of a post. It unrolls for miles. With a deep breath, Pook begins.

Garp is made to say...

"You guys who are speaking from an holier than thou attitude protecting the holy principles of AD with such religious fervor are idiots, self delusioned to thinking you are in control when you say "men approach" and "conversation focuses on her". Hypocritcal don't you think? You are succumbing to every prescribed societal dating dynamic handed down to you."

Oh, what a Pook am I! To go against the vanities that fury the youth! Oh Wisdom, for you shall forever lay shouting from the streets!

But why stop there? For if what you say is true that we give up our minds to have 'societal dating dynamics handed down to us' then... Here are my eyes; now describe beauty to me. Here are my ears; show me the symphony of Time and Nature. Here is my life; now live yours for me.

Is this not ridiculous? Oh thank the heavens that the Internet was invented now! For if we were still using paper, these 'discussions' would overflow all civilization. Now our posts can run to the infinite degree.

"I would hope that people don't go to a message board to become DJs to get meaning for their life.
Go to a church or something--this is just an exchange of information"


Exchange of information!? Very very few people are interested in information. Let me illustrate:

Pook sets up two people who have different viewpoints on a political topic. He then has them watch the SAME news program that is about that topic.

How now! What are the results?

Almost always, the one of viewpoint A only sees the information he thinks backs his position. The other of viewpoint B sees only the information that HE thinks backs his position.

All is vanity. Is the academic really looking for information? Or is he trying to create an image/career for himself? Are not most people merely shells of ego, merely seeing what they want to see and skating on idealogy?

In the end, one sees that it is chasing wind. For we are all poisoned with Time, and no idealogy will save us. That is why when De la Soul asks me on the Kill the Desperation! thread what my philosophy was, I said there was none. We are all caught within nature's laws and the flux of time. For example, women operate in a certain way that has consistantly defied explanations from men since Time Eternal. But no matter how attractive and sweet our Nice Guy philosophies were, we had to give them up for the truth. And no matter how shattering it is to our world views, we must descend deeper into this abyss.

Since this forum is like the Roman forum where booty was always the focus (they wanted to conquer nations; we want to conquer women), shall we embrace the gentle philosophy of Horace when he says:

Tra la la la, my youth,
Tra la la la, is formed here.


For ESPN says...

Why a INDIVIDUAL cannot have the same PASSION for seduction?Why he cannot use his effort, energy and time to study, learn with other successful people in that area, make this one of his highest ambitions?


When I was a kid, I loved going to the beaches. I was charmed and dazzled by the spectacular sea-shells scattered about. They were so beautiful.

So I collected them. I spent my time collecting the pretty sea-shells. When I got back home, the dazzling sea-shells were gone. All I had was snail-shells and dirty pieces.

And, once again, this same thing occurs to me with women. I thought they were so beautiful. So I collected them. And boy, did I think I was SOMEBODY then! All those pathetic twerps were DATING them and all. I kept comparing my new self to the AFC and considered myself vastly superior. I got very vain.

But what snapped me out of it was realizing that ANYONE can get women. That the STUPIDEST GUYS EVER were getting girls left and right. Then I realized that getting girls was no substancial achievement. You do not turn into 'demi-god' because you sleep with chicks. Then I recognized the process around me. I saw other guys, once getting laid, become supremely arrogant and proud. This was rather disgusting since they had absolutely no talent (how could they? They were spending ALL their time chasing chicks, getting drunk, etc.)

It was then that I realized that success with women can spell utter disaster for the young male. Better that he be a frustrated Nice Guy and have his time focused into something useful, something substancial than to descend into some bucking creature, completely enslaved in Nature's grasp.

What a shame! It takes twenty years to make a Man, and only twenty minutes for a woman to undo him!

But an Oreo hops up to this grand marble forum to say,

you want every1 to understand what you have, you must learn that they cant pook, every1 is different, people tihnk on different levels, if a person is dumb and happy, what could be the harm? you should let them stay the way they are, they might realize you opinions later on, theyll get bored of it soon enuff, and then they might seek a deeper meaning in life

Well, what is the title of this thread?

I'm all for letting people go their own way. The only reason why I'm posting is because Trickynick replying to this year old post, kinda forcing me back on.

Personal information? All right; here is it is. I've become the Nice Guy warped inside out. Everything has become backwards. Fair becomes foul and foul turns into fair. There's no term for this type; it is just 'Pook'.

Today, just today, one girl asks me out. I say no. I made some excuse. She goes on away.

Another girl, (don't know how this got brought up) starts describing her 'dream guy' and then describes me. If that wasn't enough, she wouldn't stop with the kino. (And I never touched her!)

And another girl who had a boyfriend (known her for a little while) decides to come up to me today and say, "My boyfriend is REALLY uncool."

I grunt some response. Alas, she goes on. (Sosuave.com: They ALWAYS go on.

"Really! He wants to marry me, but I never will."

I know exactly what she's doing. She's up to be stolen. I try to shrink away. I want out of the game. Yet, she goes on.

"He's, like, ignoring me!" And she goes on in detail of all the stupid stuff he's done. BTW, I have NO idea of his name. He is just mysteriously known as 'boyfriend'. Everything she tells me is bad about him. Oh, she is kinoing me here and there. Now she wants to know which buildings I'm at when I'm [away], for she tells me she expects to find me up there.

This chick is no ug, she has a dynamite personality, looks great, long flowing hair, and she's a dancer. Yet, I've made NO mark of interest towards her. After hearing all the crud about her bf, I tried to slip out with my mere grunting responses. What sort of response did she want? So eventually I just shrugged and said in a half-asleep type of way, "Well, some guys don't know how lucky they are." Now THAT was a bad thing to say if anything. She, stops, then asks me to repeat it. (NOTE: if you want to steal a gf, use this line when she starts going on of how bad the bf is)

It is the most bizzarre thing. No matter what obstacles I put up: lying that I'm married/ have a gf, that I'm a desperate single, that I don't believe in love, even so far to saying that I'm gay that these damm women won't leave me alone. My focus is on other things, especially on one thing. But they won't leave me alone.

I go to class. A girl will follow me from class. I go grocery shopping. A check-out girl will ask me out. I think, "This won't last. Next week, I'll return to being Mr. Dork." That week never comes. I blow off one chick and three more take her place.

"Pook, quit bragging." But I'm NOT bragging! I am doing NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to get these girls' attention!

"Pook, you must be Brad Pitt." NO! I keep myself looking at an optimum, but I don't compare with many guys.

I have no explanation for this. It is like Nature is in conspiracy against me. As if Nature knows that I'm getting closer and closer to her secret so she sends her women at me.

Guys don't believe me when I tell them this. They go, "You are so full of it, Pook!" If they stick around me, they begin to see it. Then they say, "How are you doing this Pook!?" And they don't believe me when I tell them NOTHING. (If any gals out there has any idea of all the above, please tell).

And then I come onto this board and you guys chant seduction. Seduction! THAT is the last thing I need. Heaven help me if I tried using SS now (which I tried and regretted recently. A girl altered her religion and emailed me three times a day based on just a LITTLE SS I did). SS or any seduction for me now would just blow everything up.

This is going to sound odd but I'm beginnning to sense that there is something operating that demands union, no, insists on it. If you persistantly remain single, bizarre things happen. I get the feeling like I'm breaking some law of Nature and, since Nature cannot tolerate a void, rushes in to fill it.

"Why don't you just go for them?" Because I've become aware of a cost involved in such a relationship for me right now. Also, I want to see how much more bizarre this can get.

THERE is your personal info, Oreo. Unfortunately the answer just raises more questions.

And, as heir to Thrasybulus, Trickynick types to say,

You condemn SS as "boy toy" or "social dildo" behavior because it responds to what makes the woman want to have sex but at the same time you say you are not against seduction.

I'm not against seduction. Seduction is a good thing that can be misused. "In harming women?" No, in harming yourself. There is a point where it crosses a line, where you lose yourself.

You want to have sex with her already, but she needs yet to be raised to buying temperature.

That is exactly one of my chief probs with SS. They believe they are 'raising her temperatures' or 'pushing her buttons' or whatever. No, women are sexual by DEFAULT. If there weren't things like society and standards of reputation, women would be doing guys left and right.

Want proof of this? Tell any woman that you are going to work on your own life, ignore women to your better interests, and do the great noble things. You are going to write the great novel, or compose your symphonies, or do great art, or whatever, and you will have women fiercly protest, "You should go out and live life." Your object has to have them included or they become angry.

Say, "I have only respect for virgin/chaste women!" and the women will despise you and hate you terribly. You have just placed a social standard on them; one that is unnatural to them.

If a woman notices you checking out a woman or seeing a couple be romantic or even the appearance of little infants, they will smile REAL BIG and become HAPPY. They are ANIMATED by the PROCESS. They see the beginning (you checking her out), middle (being lovey-dovey), and fruit (kids) but it is still all part of the sex cycle, which women are the emissaries. You will NEVER have a woman get genuinely excited about something purely philosophical, mathematical, something of transcendent thought unless she is extroadinarily male.

To further prove this, ask anyone who works with women what women talk about. Guys will say, "Women! They are the most foul mouthed creatures on the planet! That is all they seem to talk about! Sex! Sex! And the thoughts and initiations of sex!"

What is Romance? Well, we know what it is to us guys. It is that sense of imagination, that concept we see best represented in the sonnet. Women feel flattered by it, but they do not want it. They do not have the faculties to really get it.

What is Romance to women? It is LICENSE! Women can truly act the way they desire under the guise of 'romance'. They will say, "We are in love" and freely act the prostitute with the guy giving her entertainment. Yes, women want to be adored. But that is only due to them getting their egos from yours. Why does she just sit there and comb her hair to the mirror? Because she is imagining how others will think of her, what she will look like to others, etc. What consciousness in the male sense could she possibly have? Thus, she can never NEVER be alone. To be alone (for women) is to not exist. (TRY to find a woman who cannot live without her cell phone).

But I am getting off topic (Sosuave.com: Yes).

There is WAY too much vanity in SS. These guys literally think they are demi-gods because of the chicks they did. They WANT to believe that they are making chicks horny. But chicks are already horny. They just unleash the horniness in only a socially 'approved' way (enter 'romance' of whatever the age defines it from dating to fire dance). SS merely breaks down whatever barriers the girl has.

Just as guys can choose never to be with That Fat Hag, girls can choose to never be with a certain guy. Not romance, not seduction, not even SS can stop it. (But SS doesn't dwell on this since it just NEXTs her).

Women feel ashamed making the first moves. That is why they want you to be seducers. It is not because they want you to seduce them (make them horny) but to REMOVE that masculine social reputation notion they are seized by. Women want PERMISSION to act they way they actually are. We give it to them when WE go after it.

It is women's complaint that, "You guys are so lucky. The more girls you sleep with, the more of a 'stud' you become. The more guys we sleep with, the more of a 'slut' we become!"

Notice that she wants to be the slut.

Now, Anti-Dump, Doc Love and people with similar views assume that if she isn't at buying temperature WITHOUT your having influenced it, there is NOTHING you can do and THAT is the attitude that I think is AFC and I will stick to that opinion regardless of how unpopular it may be among people who are in agreement with certain very dominant influences on this website.

The question is CAN you alter the woman? Are they so stupid that they must be herded into the sexual slaughterhouse with your hounds of seduction?

Or are YOU being herded into the slaughterhouse of Nature's cycle with women being Nature's bait?

This idea that you are somehow less than a man or "not alpha" because you do certain things consciously to influence her attraction to you is utter bullsh!t.

Oh no! That is not in my thoughts at all. My thoughts sum into: "Are you REALLY controlling her? For if you aren't, then YOU are the one being controlled! If SHE isn't the one being conquered, then WHO IS? Why, it is Trickynick!

This is either-or. There is no middle ground. Either we are playing them or they are playing us.

First, it's not about communicating your interest but INFLUENCING HERS. Your influence over a woman is the product of her attraction to you. Expressing your interest does nothing for you unless you demonstrate value to her.

To me, the above is a contradiction. You see women as things to be INFLUENCED, to be MADE HORNY. I hold that they are ALREADY HORNY but that it is locked away in certain social locks.

You say that woman is to be influenced! Then you say that you are to prove that you are a value to her! But it cannot be both. Women either-or or not. They are either passive clay to be 'influenced upon' or they are acting predators, ready to devour the PRIZE nearby. (I hold that they are the predators that devour the PRIZE especially since women would rather share and compete for ONE prize than each have their own faithful loser).

Second, He acts like the number/date bit is his only option. If he is wants to communicate his interest like he (you actually) implies in that statement then why is content llet girls mop the floor with him playing phone number routlette while he neglects the much more effective path of having a tongue-down session and/or fvcking her on the spot.

Notice how the beginning of this thread said that I thought SS was, for most part, worthless for LONG TERM RELATIONSHIPS. That was Anti-Dump's focus. Of course screwing the chick immediately probably won't result in a satisfying LTR.

Anti-Dump was well aware of SS. So is Doc Love. So are others. Yet, they say things different from SS. Why is that?

The big problem with Speed Seduction is that they confuse results with knowledge. You can get tons of girls while being totally off on their true nature. Understanding women is not a prerequisite to success. In fact, the more a male discovers about a woman, the more he's apt to avoid them.


He left because he got tired of the nice guys? Maybe he saw too much of himself in them. What's the difference between him and them other then he's been kicked around a little but been to dense to change his methods in any way but closing down completely into this mechanical way of thinking.


Have we not all been kicked around? If we were already successful with women, we wouldn't originally come to this forum.

There is a name for guys like Anti-Dump, it's called AFC.

There is a word for sentences like this; it's called stupid.

Examine your conscious, good Trickynick. Look to this wild vanity that flows through your veins, that is making you talk LIKE this ALL the TIME. Consider that women may be the ones using YOU for their own pleasures and that you are being drained from it in ways you cannot possibly imagine. Consider that your pleasure in it is but a mirage (for it is womanly, it is women who obsess over the physical relaxements from their smelly candles to pillows to chocolate cakes...) Women putter near the ground but man was made to soar in transcendent arc.

But as for now, I grow weary of you. Our disagreement of Speed Seduction has nothing to do with Speed Seduction but everything to do on the devouring nature of Women.

What is woman? Is she a booty to be conquered or is she the conquerer? Are men the prize to be 'caught' as a 'great catch' or are they the hunters? How can women destroy and create at the same time? Why is it that men create revolutions (of technology, of politics, of history) but women only create anarchy? Why is it the more our thoughts go toward women they end up being reflected back that we end up thinking about MEN?

She is the enigma that holds all of us in her grasp at this website.

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

"Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
 

Garp

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Pook--think of all the symphonies and great art you could have produced in the time it took to think out and write this post. Seems to me that what's consuming your time is your urge to debate with your fellow man here.
If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.

------------------
How we handle our thoughts is how we determine if we will evolve or devolve.

[This message has been edited by Garp (edited 10-01-2002).]
 

Jester

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Originally posted by Garp:
Pook--think of all the symphonies and great art you could have produced in the time it took to think out and write this post. Seems to me that what's consuming your time is your urge to debate with your fellow man here.
If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.

Just because she will be repulsed by it, doesnt mean it isnt true...

I'd like to thank you pook, for making me think. Truly inspiring posts like these are quite rare, and you certainly did pull me out of my comfort zone.



------------------
Before the Battle of Thermoplyae, against the Persian army led by Xercies, a Greek scout told the Spartan warrior Dieneke that the Persian archers were so numerous, that they could blank out the sun with their arrows. Dieneke replied to the scout "Good, then we shall have our battle in the shade."
 

ESPN

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Originally posted by Pook:

But what snapped me out of it was realizing that ANYONE can get women.
That the STUPIDEST GUYS EVER were getting girls left and right.
I didn't get this one, seems that you keep looking to the others to see if they are acting superior or inferior to you, and then you create a whole philosophy and rationalization around a more superior way of acting to integrate this in your daily life(ex: playing hard to get), not there is something wrong with that, again, this is just a TASTE

Originally posted by Pook:

Then I realized that getting girls was no substancial achievement.
Depends of what you consider as a achievement, again TASTE
Pook isn't you doing the whole "Focus in life, not woman" for YOUR personal satisfaction, your personal happiness? And anything different from this is saw by you as ''inferior way for me'' so your path became YOUR way to HONOR your self?
And isn't a speed seducer doing the same thing?


[This message has been edited by ESPN (edited 10-02-2002).]
 

Chubbs Peterson

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Originally posted by Garp:
If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.
And that's the difference between Men and Women. Women may find disdain in something and call it "repulsive" because it may lead to ugly truths.

Men may also find disdain in something but will try to learn from it.

The truth is not always pretty. But it is valid.

Pook and Nick. This is a damn good post. Thank you both.
 

Garp

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Whoops, forgot to include a couple of those all-important, smiley emoticons.
I was smiling when I wrote my response to Pook's post, and I was not offended. I wasn't trying to disagree with him or offer my own opinion. I just suggested a good way of dealing with the wimmins. Settle down boys, I wasn't attacking Pook.
This does not concern me, so I am going to butt-out now.

------------------
How we handle our thoughts is how we determine if we will evolve or devolve.
 

Garp

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:::the messenger returns:::

Pook:

On your first post in this thread, and I've been here quite a while and
I
know what attitudes you hold, you mention that the focus of
conversation
should be on the woman. As quoted:

2) Don't talk about yourself! (Focus the conversation on her or on her
interests. Only mention things about you if they are the same: "Yes, I
think the same about parrots being evil too." So many women have said
that
I'm a 'mystery'. "Is this good?" "Yes" This is because when I do
comment
on myself, it is very vague and general. I keep my mouth shut. Also,
you
come across as a good listener. A good listener is the most sexiest
trait
a guy can have.)

Now, earlier in your critique of Speed Seduction and debate against
PDX,
you said you are against it because the focus seems to be on the woman,
it
uses the concept of demonstrating value which again you think focuses
on
the woman.

Now, can you some how explain or rationalize the above quote with your
critiques? What are your intentions of focusing on the conversation on
the woman? If you are conversing for yourself, should you not at least
talk about the things you find interesting? Or if you want to go the
middle route, things you BOTH find interesting? Why are you
manipulating
the converstation to please the woman and keep her interested? For
who's
sake are you being a mystery? Unto yourself? What value is there in
worrying over whether or not you come across as a good listener, or
worrying what traits you pass off to her. Could it be that you're
trying
to impress her in some way? Would that not be trying to demonstrate
some
sort of value to her?

Now, it could be that that post is old since it is the first one in the
thread, but then you'll need to clarify that you don't ascribe to that
anymore. To me, the only way you can keep your philosophy consistent
of
"having the focus on you" is speaking your mind, saying whatever you
feel
like it without regard to what the girl is thinking or how she is
evaluating what you are saying. Not "focusing the conversation on
her".

Now, if you hold onto the thought that techniques in and of themselves
that focus on the girl go against what you think, then I think there is
a
fair number of material on this site that you are going to have to
speak
out against to avoid being a hypocrite. Most of the DJ Bible is tips
and
techniques on seduction, there are a lot of "canned" stuff in there
even
conversationally. Holding the truths to be that you are against
demonstrating value (rather value be assigned to you indirectly through
self-improvement) against the guys analyzing women and flirting (this
would be teasing, playful statements of interest, or showing signs of
interest) and against putting focus on the woman, I want you to speak
out
against the following:

Canned Openers
****y+funny examples
Neg hits
Waiting a certain number of days to call
Consciously trying to become a mystery or challenge
Playing hard to get
Patterns/SS (of course)
Any conscious changing of personality/lifestyle for the sake of women

Field Reports (would be analyzing the interactions with women, no need
when there is only talk of number and date)
Analyzing her interest level (Major Doc Love thing - not only is this
needless analyzation, but also putting complete focus on her and HER
interest level rather your interest level on her)
Trying to impress
Trying to be funny
Focusing the conversation on her

In essence, you will have to speak out against sosuave, because if
everyone were philosophizing simply on the nature of man and woman like
yourself, preaching self-improvement and against technique, then this
place would cease to exist.
This whole forum full of non-SSers is tantamount to the focus all the
men
here have placed on women. Venting, venting, and more venting,
frustration. It isn't evidence for the devouring nature of women, it
is
evidence for the amount of focus you have placed on them and the way it
has allowed them to affect your lives. Post after post, time wasted
that
you could be "improving" yourself, reading a book, working out,
working,
school, job.

Step up to the plate, or remain the illogical prophet of sosuave.

P.S. For all you puzzies who like the *truth* so much, face it. Either
think for yourself in which case you are open to new ideas, or continue
sucking an entire forum/poster's dyck.


Regards,
cyclonus
 

Jester

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What if its so much simpler than all that garp, what if it could be compressed into something non-phisophical and easily understood? It can be!

When most people came to this board, they were desperate(myself included), they had no clue and were anxious to learn how to seduce and raise interest level. After awhile this interest-raising skill could be mastered and the DJ knew he could have just about if not any girl he wanted. It in effect, was no longer a challenge, the tables had turned.

Now this is the point that seperates the SSers from the DJs(i see them as two different groups), the Djs asks "Why?". Why do i want to take the time to learn and practice these techniques when its already so easy? What is the need for techniques when theyre already coming in droves without me lifting a finger? Why should I convey my value to her! It should be her conveying value to me! The Dj realises this, and does away with any techniques.

Its the transformation that takes place, the AFC to the DJ, the chaser to the chased! Unfortunately(or fortunately), the SSers never quite grasp this, they dont realise they dont have to chase anymore. Or maybe its as simple as them enjoying the hunt. But can you really call shooting fish in a barrel hunting?

Pook doesnt need to speak out against sosuave in order not to be a hypocrite, he just cant use the techniques that he know works. It doesnt mean he has to reject his old posts either, he was helping people that did not yet know those techniques. He doesnt have to use the techniques anymore, nor do many of the Djs on this site.


Answer me this garp, trickynick, or anyone arguing against what pook has been preaching. Why compete for girls, when theyre already competing for you?

[This message has been edited by Jester (edited 10-02-2002).]
 

ESPN

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There is nothing wrong with focusing in your life more than woman, the problem is when a INDIVIDUAL try to influence others to make they live by HIS dreams and ideals, his TASTES and his passions, that's where the problem lies, it can lead to the many people develop intern self-conflicts.

[This message has been edited by ESPN (edited 10-02-2002).]
 

xblitz44x

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Why compete for girls, when theyre already competing for you?
I assume that you're speaking of Seductionists that spend their time studying techniques and mind-fvcking maneuvers to manipulate a chick into fvcking them.

If this is the case, than the reason that I personally practice speed seduction is because I realized that my "DJ Skillz" were NOT ENOUGH to attract ANY woman that I wanted. Challenge, mystery, telephone rules, are all great for beginners. They will help to attract some girls. But the problem that I have with the DJ way, is that if you want to get laid, you have to hope that the woman is attracted to you and your personality.

DJs demonstrate no VALUE you really, besides their looks and humor. And if a woman doesn't value humor, you're really screwed because you have nothing that she wants. Different women value different traits. You can't possess a generic list of traits and assume that every woman will find you attractive because of them. It won't happen.

Of course the hardcore DJs will say, "It's not about giving her what she wants, it's about her giving you what YOU want". That's a cute little saying, but try providing NO value to a woman and see how long she sticks around for. It's great to say, "oh well, she was so hot and I'd drink her bathwater, but oh well, i'm a DJ if she didn't want me oh well", but that is not going to get you laid with this girl.

Speed Seduction is more short term. It is for guys who see the physical, sexual value in girls. They want to get laid, fast. I am one of these guys. Speed Seduction allows you to figure out what is important to a woman, and when you've found that out TRANSFORM the appearence she has of you, to fit a very attractive man.

Basically DJ = "Here I am if you don't like me then NEXT!"

Speed Seduction = "What do you want?", then magically become him in her eyes.

-Blitz
 

Jester

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Originally posted by xblitz44x:
Why compete for girls, when theyre already competing for you?
I assume that you're speaking of Seductionists that spend their time studying techniques and mind-fvcking maneuvers to manipulate a chick into fvcking them.

If this is the case, than the reason that I personally practice speed seduction is because I realized that my "DJ Skillz" were NOT ENOUGH to attract ANY woman that I wanted. Challenge, mystery, telephone rules, are all great for beginners. They will help to attract some girls. But the problem that I have with the DJ way, is that if you want to get laid, you have to hope that the woman is attracted to you and your personality.

DJs demonstrate no VALUE you really, besides their looks and humor. And if a woman doesn't value humor, you're really screwed because you have nothing that she wants. Different women value different traits. You can't possess a generic list of traits and assume that every woman will find you attractive because of them. It won't happen.

Of course the hardcore DJs will say, "It's not about giving her what she wants, it's about her giving you what YOU want". That's a cute little saying, but try providing NO value to a woman and see how long she sticks around for. It's great to say, "oh well, she was so hot and I'd drink her bathwater, but oh well, i'm a DJ if she didn't want me oh well", but that is not going to get you laid with this girl.

Speed Seduction is more short term. It is for guys who see the physical, sexual value in girls. They want to get laid, fast. I am one of these guys. Speed Seduction allows you to figure out what is important to a woman, and when you've found that out TRANSFORM the appearence she has of you, to fit a very attractive man.

Basically DJ = "Here I am if you don't like me then NEXT!"

Speed Seduction = "What do you want?", then magically become him in her eyes.

-Blitz
Anybody else say "What a chump" after you read this last reply?

What do you want and then become him for her. jesus christ man pook wasnt kidding about that boy toy stuff.

i realise not everyone was born with great looks or the best personality but that doesnt mean you have to try and become someone else for the time it takes to have sex with a chick.

i mean go to the gym, read some self-help books. I cant believe you can be proud of making a girl see something in you that youre not. Wouldn't you rather actually have that desired trait, instead of making her think you do?

I suppose theres nothing really wrong with SS if all youre after is sex like you are, but for guys that want LTRs this certainly is not the way to go. Cause eventually she'll find out youre not what you first appeared to be.
 

Pook

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Garp says,

Pook--think of all the symphonies and great art you could have produced in the time it took to think out and write this post. Seems to me that what's consuming your time is your urge to debate with your fellow man here.

It doesn't take much time at all. It just comes naturally to me.

How do I have an urge to 'debate' when I don't post often? How do I have an urge to 'debate' when Trickynick came HERE?

Look, we're getting off topic. I don't say any of this to 'debate' or to kill time. I'm saying it because its my honest analysis. There's a lot of stuff I've been noticing but not saying (partially because I don't want to believe it yet I can't disprove it). I hold out on you guys.

If you really want to distance yourself from women, print this most recent post of yours and read it aloud everytime you get hit on. I can assure you that even the dimmest woman will be repulsed by it.

Hahahha! But I do say this stuff to them! I am around women ALL THE TIME. Every main theme I've had in my posts, I bring it up to them to watch their reaction. I have literally asked women what they define as a 'Man'. And I have actually said to them in that last post.

Did they get repulsed? No, they just get angry. If you ask a woman, "Would you want love or immortality?" they always choose love. Why? Because women don't seem to have the sense of the transcendent spirit. To a woman, hell is to be an old maid.

Everything I have posted here I have said to them. It is 'intellectual' so they don't like it (as practically anything intellectual). I make it up to them by talking about sex (which they love to talk about).

2) Don't talk about yourself! (Focus the conversation on her or on her
interests. Only mention things about you if they are the same: "Yes, I
think the same about parrots being evil too." So many women have said
that
I'm a 'mystery'. "Is this good?" "Yes" This is because when I do
comment
on myself, it is very vague and general. I keep my mouth shut. Also,
you
come across as a good listener. A good listener is the most sexiest
trait
a guy can have.)

Now, earlier in your critique of Speed Seduction and debate against
PDX,
you said you are against it because the focus seems to be on the woman,
it
uses the concept of demonstrating value which again you think focuses
on
the woman.


EXACTLY!

Now, can you some how explain or rationalize the above quote with your
critiques? What are your intentions of focusing on the conversation on
the woman? If you are conversing for yourself, should you not at least
talk about the things you find interesting? Or if you want to go the
middle route, things you BOTH find interesting? Why are you
manipulating
the converstation to please the woman and keep her interested?


But the focus is NOT on her. Only the conversation is focused on her.

Why do you focus the conversation on her? To weed her out. Remember, you are THE PRIZE TO BE WON. She talks about herself and you can gauge: "Is she my type? Should I go for her?" Notice that the focus is still on yourself.

If the conversation was focused on you, you would be seeing HER as the prize. You would end up trying to prove yourself WORTHY to HER!

You must go through many chicks to find a good one. Let them prove themselves to YOU, not the other way around.

One thing I've noticed is that I seem to be doing some of the things of Speed Seduction AUTOMATICALLY without ever doing Speed Seduction!

If she says she likes rock climbing, poetry, and exercise, I, having interest myself in rock climbing, can ask about that. I do it because I am thinking, "Hey, this chick does something that I enjoy doing." It is not, "I want to make this chick think that I enjoy what she does so her panties go down." There is no manipulation. If she has nothing that interests me, I send her on her way and get another chick.

Getting chicks to talk about themselves is great because they are auditioning themselves for you! You can weed them out. She will like this rather than have a guy 'prove' how great he is. She repulses from that. Why? Because we are MEANT to weed them out.

who's
sake are you being a mystery? Unto yourself? What value is there in
worrying over whether or not you come across as a good listener, or
worrying what traits you pass off to her. Could it be that you're
trying
to impress her in some way? Would that not be trying to demonstrate
some
sort of value to her?


But if you notice I never said I TRIED to be a mystery. I only mentioned that women saw me as a mystery, and so I described my actions to another poster who was curious.

When you see yourself as the prize, you are going to weed out chicks (rather than fit yourself to the chick). So you get them to talk of themself and so on to accurately gauge them (is she for you or not?).

Yet, surprisingly, women LIKE you weeding them out! They will say, "What a great listener you are!" Even if you weed her out after listening to her, she is more satisfied since you were acting like a man and weeding out chicks.

Women wants a guy who wants them because of something unique about them. They do not want some desperate loser or a guy who tells them what they want to hear.

In ages past, that was how it was. Men would try to find a chick suitable to them and go through the stack. Nowadays, many men do not do this so it is refreshing when a Man acts like he is supposed to.

In essence, you will have to speak out against sosuave, because if
everyone were philosophizing simply on the nature of man and woman like
yourself, preaching self-improvement and against technique, then this
place would cease to exist.


Notice how the discussion has drifted from the subject and is now on ME? Look, what I am saying in this thread is the same that is in the first post of the DJ Bible: that YOU are the prize to be won!

When I first read SS, I was shocked(probably as everyone else). It really did warp my mind. Could it be true? Could this work with women?

SS tries to understand the nature of women in order to become effective. The shock was not SS; it was the nature of women.

I think SS can be useful in the above way and at putting men at ease with dealings with women. Like I said before, what I protest against is the SPIRIT of SS. That you are to react to her thoughts and interests.

For long term relationships, I don't think SS will create happiness for you.

And I already did 'speak out' against it with this thread. Look at the date of this first post on this thread. This is an old post.

You make it sound as if I've crossed some 'line' and now I must denounce everything. But I am still 100% consistant with the Kill That Desperation! and Be a Man! posts.

In fact, in the Be a Man post, the guy despises being the Nice Guy to seek vengeance by sleeping with as many girls he can. He even accesses a lay-guide. Eventually, he gets tired of it. He will shout, "Why can't I just be myself!?" Why should he have to live for woman's sexual pleasure in order to get his own? (In other words, the thoughts in these recent posts are not new. They were even there at the beginning within the Be a Man post. Why should I denounce anything when I'm being consistant? [And that post has never been edited. Nothing has been added since it was posted YEARS ago.])

This whole forum full of non-SSers is tantamount to the focus all the
men
here have placed on women. Venting, venting, and more venting,
frustration. It isn't evidence for the devouring nature of women, it
is
evidence for the amount of focus you have placed on them and the way it
has allowed them to affect your lives.


This board has changed my life for the better. The reason why I am still here is to repay the debt.

No, there are not many posts on the 'devouring nature of women'. The 'nature of women' posts I HAVE put out I do not enjoy. There is always more to be posted.

The focus is life not women. Do I post here everyday? No. I'm off doing other things. Yet, how many people complain that I don't respond to them!?

Man and Woman feed off of each other. Many men have found their idealization through the woman. Yet, women can also undo men. (I can post more on this).

BTW, I do write books, work-out, plays, etc.

ESPN says,

I didn't get this one, seems that you keep looking to the others to see if they are acting superior or inferior to you, and then you create a whole philosophy and rationalization around a more superior way of acting to integrate this in your daily life(ex: playing hard to get), not there is something wrong with that, again, this is just a TASTE

No, I am saying that only to say that sex is not an achievement in itself. Many former niceguys/afcs (as I am one) think that once we're able to play the game. As a result, we get vain. ("I'm getting laid regularly! I am a sex god! Whooo!")

Depends of what you consider as a achievement, again TASTE
Pook isn't you doing the whole "Focus in life, not woman" for YOUR personal satisfaction, your personal happiness? And anything different from this is saw by you as ''inferior way for me'' so your path became YOUR way to HONOR your self?
And isn't a speed seducer doing the same thing?


Why have I become the subject now? Look, the greatest pleasure for any guy is to be a Man. Yes, it may seem nice to sleep and entertain oneself for eons. Yet, there is a satisfying fruit in one's labor. There is a peace in having such a 'warrior' style sense, where you FIX problems rather than accept them.

Look how most people spend their hard earned dollars! They slave and slave only to get drunk and watch movies? What type of life is that? Nothing wrong with getting drunk or movies, but they are relaxation. If you put them as the focus of your life, it would be a pathetic life.

This thread is titled, "What I've learned." This is something I believe is true. Whether you believe it or not is up to you. We all must find our own way.

There is nothing wrong with focusing in your life more than woman, the problem is when a INDIVIDUAL try to influence others to make they live by HIS dreams and ideals, his TASTES and his passions, that's where the problem lies, it can lead to the many people develop intern self-conflicts.

Yes, it is my TASTE not to be desperate. It is my TASTE to not act like a peon. It is my TASTE to be heroic when situations dictate it. It is my TASTE to build my life. It is my TASTE to attempt to figure out the riddles of Nature. It is my TASTE to live.

Don't take my words as laws. Much of what has been learned from this site has PREVENTED many disasters. I ultimately think you'll be happier striving than placing your talent to service your lust.

Live, laugh, love! Notice the order?

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

"Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
 

Donjuanpablo

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Good thread,

Sorry to get off the topic guys but just a quick note,

Is Anti-Dump Doc Love?- I remember a lot of speculation a while ago and this post has lead me to speculate further.
 

Inspector Clouseau

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As a thesis to what Pook is saying, throughout his tenure here, is that as a gender, women are worthless (the "devouring nature of woman"). Empty. Behind it all is nothing but a void. This is why he and Anti-Dump stress the futility in trying to get into the female mind to see how she works: there's nothing there, there is no philosophy. Therefore, to devote your life to pursuing something worthless results in a worthless product of wasted time and energy, and why at end of your life, you would see how you didn't do anything substantial with your life.

Otto Weiniger, of the early 1900's, committed suicide at tender age of 23, after failed publication of his masterpiece Sex and Character (which was, in time, wildly published after his death). One source of his death wish was what he had found in Woman: that they are soulless creatures. Otto found what Pook is finding.

(A full and free version of the book can be found here)

I do not unequivocally support the view, as I've met some exceptional women, but besides the very few yes it's true; beauty is nothing but a facade, women are nothing but their environment; it is a truth I'd like rather not be true.
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Donjuanpablo:

Is Anti-Dump Doc Love?- I remember a lot of speculation a while ago and this post has lead me to speculate further.
I have always been convinced of it personally, but I could be wrong. I look at it this way: even if they are not the same person, they may as well be.

------------------
- The performer known as Nick
 

HB_Hunter

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Awesome Post !!

though i got some points here for u pook to clarify


First of All I can read ppl minds easily and get to know how they think thru their eyes as i also am interested in social psychology . as it just flew from 2 years or somethin mainly cz of my skill in psychology and osbervation as well as readin that elicitin values article or shall i say when i re-read alot of da lay-guide articles that i founded out later that it isn't that useful for gals , for life Towards Happiness .

So what im sayin is that i absoutley agree with ur point regardin speed seduction and operatin on ur gut only , but what about elicitin values ?? only elictin not echoin??
meanin that u ask subtly or directly deep questions about her desires , feelings , past memories etc.....

I've Found out these days that alot of time the conversation can't get in the natural progression even with guys i sometimes find out that i try to force it or think of what questions to ask u know maybe cz i haven't been that outgoin these days or donno so what would be done to let the conversation flow lightley and when u think that ur bored talkin about her or not knowin exactley what to ask about her u know

Regards,
 
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