Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

What I've learned...

Pook

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Originally posted by SexPDX:
Pook, nothing but love for ya, but this is a damnable lie. In fact I would go so far as to say you are eating this up with a spoon and there is no reason you should not because it is a good discussion.
I've expected to come here one day and see this forum (at least some of the posts) gone into that blackhole into the internet. Therefore, there is no spoon!

My vanity lies on other things, completly deattached from this site.

OTOH if you truly do HATE this type of exchange as you say then the fact that you are expending so much effort towards it does not speak very highly of the value you place on your own time.
For writing I consider to be 'effort', it would have to be a type of verse, say iambic pentameter or spenser form. Everything I write on this forum I do with my little finger. That is why I make so many crass mistakes and elementary errors with spelling and such. (Someone reminded me about THEN and THAN! LOL!) I'm not putting much an effort. (My posts run long because I love reading my thoughts, haha)

Anyhow, last night I decided to take to heart what you have been saying and carry that attitude into the field with me. I was hanging out at LJ's place (my wing/field mentor in case you don't recall me mentioning him) and we had a couple attractive girls come over, one of who he had known and recently gotten back in touch with. LJ, BTW, has a similar attitude to what you mention about keeping the focus on yourself but he articulates it differently, "always stick with what YOUR game is" is how he puts it. I just decided I would not put myself in the mindset of pursuit or making efforts at attraction untill I had qualified their personalities to see where they fit in with what I had going on keeping the focus on myself.


The biggest risk for many here comes not with failure (for if we weren't failures at first, we wouldn't be here!), but with success. I have seen far too many guys, once knowing that they can easily GET women, end up totally losing themselves. This is not to say that women are bad or that the game is bad. But the point is not to live so you can Don Juan; it is to Don Juan so that you can live.

I've always been afraid that this forum would turn into a satellite for Speed Seduction. There are plenty of SS type sites; I haven't found another site like this one. SS comes and goes her in cycles which is fine. But regardless of the ****y type SSers talk, there is more to women than anything dreamed in the PU.

Do not let the Game become the aim of your life (for that would amount to a sad life!). Even with your free-time, have some other priorities.

"But Pook! But Pook! Rest assured that the Game shall be my life."

What is your life? It is a matter of habit. Show me your habits and I'll show you your life.

Obviously, no one who makes no effort to don juan is going to do so overnight, no matter how much is read. A big key in being successful with don juaning is HABIT.

But don't let the habit continue to swell and grow and shove off the other habits, especially the ones that aim at your own idealism and dreams. For if you lose those, you lose your life.

There is high potential in all of us, even if we don't realize it ourselves, and I'm going to do everything I can to yank it out of you.

The girls kept talking to each other while they were with each other but when I isolated on of them on the back porch leaving LJ with the other she was kind of a high-strung blabbermouth. I would throw in bits and pieces of deeper conversation and she did bit and carried those thread of conversation on for actually a while making it a good conversation but at the first slight lull of the conversation she was back to blabbering about what she had been talking about the whole time she was there.
Haha, they do tend to do that!

When men talk, we usually focus on the SUBJECT of the discussion. We can talk on and on about a subject and forget that the other person is there. It is like we are talking of the mental idea, THAT is the focus.

When women talk, they usually talk to each other. They can never talk like men, in forgetting the present surroundings and talking and thinking of the transcendent thought at hand. No, there is no 'subject' but only to the other person. Thus, anything you talk about is going to be seen as how it is seen or thought in relation to her or something else. (That is why as soon as the princess gets out of class, she is immediately on her cell phone. Heaven forbid she be alone for a few minutes and has to endure not silence but the transcendent thoughts of her MIND.)

For a while I got her talking about whether or not she knew her trigram (feng shui) and I told her a little bit about what feng shui and qi are all about. I got some kino in on the porch and we went back inside.
Although the feminine does not like intellectualism, she DOES like a guy who is smart (not because she can hear you blabber intellectualism, but because your added value means her added value). It's often good to try to get something like you were doing with the chick. She, herself, might discover a 'mental connection' and fall in love with you with her mind (which the body follows). (And this is all without the incredible connection pattern.)

Also, I have come to realize that what may seem like annoying, nervous blabber coming from chicks may actually be product of them being made slightly nervous from feeling a glimmer of attraction and attempting to mask that attraction by appearing "busy" by either figiting or blabbering.
Yes, but I haven't noticed INTELLIGENT chicks behaving like that (those are the ones I always want). Or maybe its a matter of maturity.

At this point I am thinking this girls DEFINITELY not LTR material or anything like that and DOES have some personal mannerisms that are slightly annoying but it in NO WAY makes it such that I don't still want to have sex with her.


I'm not saying you must go LTR. Just keep your own ideals and dreams intact. And don't let the women suck up too much of your precious time.

I keep saying this because we all have such an unfilled potential. We make up excuses for successes with the words 'luck', 'talent', 'skills' or 'genius' yet IN EVERY CASE these fellows INVESTED their time rather than SPENT it.

Thomas Jefferson had the looks and skills to go get the girls. He would go to dances and parties, and be with all the girls. But he realized that time was flying by and only becoming faster. So he set the next part of his life in study, reading, writing, and all. He had an image of himself and realized that if that image was to become reality, he had to work on it.

"But Pook, we cannot be a Thomas Jefferson." Who says!? WHO SAYS!? Don't tell me you can't or anyone can't. The colonies were only 3 million people. 3 million! My hometown is larger than that! And such men of such ability came from such a small population! What is the population now? And where are the Men? WHERE?

The world's population has been relatively small for most of history. Only since the Industrial Revolution and all has the population boomed. But before that, there were the greatest artists, the finest musicians, the most insightful philosophers, and greatest men. Where are they today!? Our population is far larger than anytime in history. Shouldn't the number of 'prime movers' be LARGER?

My guess is the 'Remnant' idea. It is beyond dispute that the Renaissance was a blossom of thought and ability. Yet, its population was LESS than that of the Middle Ages. Most particularly, the Bubonic Plague came and reduced one third of the European population. The survivors, the remnants, were much more aware of death, decay, and the passage of time than their preceding generations. This drove them 'away' from the womb, that devouring Nature. They literally went to war against Nature and created empires and treatises, plays and masterpieces, that would stand the test of time.

My guess is that today we have assumed victory over Nature. Like a conquered thing, we have fallen in love with it. That we will destroy the earth without consciously trying, that the old style of literature/poetic heroism should be the responsibility of science, nature's classifier. "Psychologies, mental works of the brain, evolution theories- these are to be the basis of our lifestyles." But where is the transcendence in it? "Young men running for women all the time- that is natural." Yes, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't demand more.

[Sosuave.com: Noone can get on a tangent like Pook.]

Thanks, Sosuave! ... I think.

Back to Trickynick post:

Pook, your points hinting at me seeing the game itself as the substance in life rather than the PRODUCT of substance in my life are well-taken I can assure you.
Is it? I hope so.

That being said I would like to ask you, don't you enjoy spitting game at a woman for it's own sake? Isn't it fun to you? Don't you get a charge out of it? I sure as hell do and don't understand how you can't.
Yes, but it can actually get old.
Those who never tire of 'the game' are eternally children. These are the same people who never tire of movies, or anything of entertainment.

To illustrate the point, I've invited Byron to this post. Byron, what do you have to say?

"That's easy, Pook...

"It is true from early habit, one must make love mechanically as one swims; I was once very fond of both, but now as I never swim unless I tumble into the water, I don't make love till almost obliged."

And, Master Poet Byron, the writer of our Don Juan poem and icon, what effect does women have on you?

"There is something to me very softening in the presence of a woman, some strange influence, even if one is not in love with them, which I cannot at all account for, having no very high opinion of the sex. But yet, I always feel in better humour with myself and every thing else, if there is a woman within ken."

And of subtracting the infancy from ourselves?

"When one subtracts from life infancy (which is vegetation), sleep, eating and swilling, buttoning and unbuttoning-how much remains of downright existence? The summer of a dormouse."

But Byron...

"Yes"

What is your last word... of the body and mind?

"Man is born passionate of body, but with an innate though secret tendency to the love of Good in his main-spring of Mind. But God help us all! It is at present a sad jar of atoms."

A sad jar of atoms! Alas!

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

"Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
 

lordclem*

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"Just keep your own ideals and dreams intact. And don't let the women suck up too much of your precious time."

"Do not let the Game become the aim of your life (for that would amount to a sad life!). Even with your free-time, have some other priorities."

Thats what this whole thread took to say!i am glad it happened.and it very much needed saying. "dont be all about women and inprove thy self" was the 2 most potent things i learn when i first came to the site.i also agree that sometimes i wonder if the other guys are keeping it up. but that really up to them

and guys this may or may not apply to but you but i have been researching human behavior (men,women and self)and have found that some days i am pissed off by being human,when i understand the process by which we make most of our choices,and how they affect us and others.
like most people wont bother to help with the enviroment simply because its too big and abstract and they dont think its helps them personly.add the people who do dont really cant about it either!

lol one thing about science that i love is that in a few decades anything we know NOW could be shown to be utter crap.

understanding the human phyisc has been .....well lets just say familiarity breeds contempt.
 

Foxhunter

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I am a little perplexed by this thread.

I mean, Pook's main theme here and in many of his other posts is one of self improvement and fulfilment of one's life potential, yes? Its almost as if his thoughts are about to transcend from being a Don Juan to an outright meaning of Man.

I can just see it now. I am 100 and sitting in front of my children and grandchildren being asked about how I acquired my wisdom of life and existence and I answer, "Well, it all started with me visiting this website about how to get women to have sex with me...."

I fail to see why I cannot foster an attitude of self-development and self-fulfilment, but still not strive to master the concepts of SS. The former is a philosophy and the latter is a methodology. You can focus your life around the pursuit of women and never even have heard of SS - you cannot invalidate SS by assuming that it controls your life.

Sure, women are not everything and should not be everything in a man's life. But women sure are fun to play with and if I can adapt a few bits of SS to enhance that play, then my life can only be better for it.

[This message has been edited by Foxhunter (edited 09-19-2002).]
 

thecraftylefty

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Well, I'm certainly not Pook or SexPDX but I'll throw in what I've learned along my journey. Basically I live my life by this one simple quote. Since Pook shared an excerpt from Hamlet I think I'll stay on the same track and share some more insight from Shakespeare.

"There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." --William Shakespeare--

When I first read that statement I was at a loss for words. It is very simple yet powerful. Understanding the quote and relating it to Pook's outlook vs. SexPDX's, it can be inferred that each see their view as the right one when in fact I believe either both or neither could be "right."

Each bring up good points to support their case. Even the AFC's of the world think their outlook is right. Who are we to tell them they're wrong? We can only provide options for which each person chooses their path.

I've read endless amounts of posts from Pook and SexPDX (Trickynick before he started his seduction phase) here as SoSuave, and even more from ASF and also plenty of books. I've gained more knowledge than I ever imagined. I never knew what I was missing out on when I was an AFC. I just thought that was my only option. I was never aware I could be more. When I found this site it was like a gateway to what I wanted my life to be like. I dreamed of the day that I would be able to sarge or DJ any chick I chose into liking me. It's only natural to want to be accepted. Enough of that, I'm getting off track of what I really want to say.

So Pook is pretty much saying that becoming a MAN is the "right" way while SexPDX advocates seduction is worthy of being another weapon in our arsenals. It's all what you choose to believe. And I believe everyone has the right to side with whatever best suits them. If in time this decision changes so be it. But at this instance in time walk your own path. Do what you feel is right. Nothing is impossible.

One last quote though:

"To know is nothing at all, to imagine is everything." --Anatole France--

thecraftylefty
 

ESPN

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What's the cost of being on Dionisius path?
 

Jester

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This has been the absolute best discussion i have ever read on this website or anywhere.

I didnt think it was possible to produce such a great post on this board again.

props to you pook, as well as to you nick.

p.s. you have some great writing skills pook.
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Pook:
My vanity lies on other things, completly deattached from this site.
That's interesting. I didn't mention anything about vanity, not even implicitly. Why do you?

Originally posted by Pook:

For writing I consider to be 'effort', it would have to be a type of verse, say iambic pentameter or spenser form.
Hehehe...that's okay, Pook, you don't have to write me a sonnet.

Originally posted by Pook:
I'm not putting much an effort. (My posts run long because I love reading my thoughts, haha)
Ahhh, so you DO enjoy this kind of posting. An admission of that was all I was after.

Originally posted by Pook:
But the point is not to live so you can Don Juan; it is to Don Juan so that you can live.
What you are trying to say here sounds interesting. For further clarification can you rephrase not to include the words 'Don Juan'? Thank you.

Originally posted by Pook:
I've always been afraid that this forum would turn into a satellite for Speed Seduction. There are plenty of SS type sites; I haven't found another site like this one. SS comes and goes her in cycles which is fine.
Pook, I am not nearly as into SS as a method as you and others may think. One of the only reasons I talk about it so much here is because of the amount of misconception there is here about it. Now you and I disagree but that's different. Because you do have a certain amount of experience with it, I recognize you as someone with an informed opinion.

I have heard guys here talk about anyone who uses SS, MM or any other such method as being scum when they themselves know NOTHING about it.

Originally posted by Pook:
But regardless of the ****y type SSers talk, there is more to women than anything dreamed in the PU.
This is either a statement of the obvious or I am completely misunderstanding.

Originally posted by Pook:
Obviously, no one who makes no effort to don juan is going to do so overnight, no matter how much is read. A big key in being successful with don juaning is HABIT.

But don't let the habit continue to swell and grow and shove off the other habits, especially the ones that aim at your own idealism and dreams. For if you lose those, you lose your life.

There is high potential in all of us, even if we don't realize it ourselves, and I'm going to do everything I can to yank it out of you.
Consider this, Pook. It has only been ONE YEAR since I got the memo that I was an AFC, a nice guy, and that everything I had been doing with women my whole life was for the most part WRONG. Now that I have broken free of that (well maybe not by the POOK definition of AFC) isn't a very natural (and perhaps HEALTHY) phase to want to spend some time appreciating my successes?

Originally posted by Pook:
When men talk, we usually focus on the SUBJECT of the discussion. We can talk on and on about a subject and forget that the other person is there. It is like we are talking of the mental idea, THAT is the focus.

When women talk, they usually talk to each other. They can never talk like men, in forgetting the present surroundings and talking and thinking of the transcendent thought at hand. No, there is no 'subject' but only to the other person. Thus, anything you talk about is going to be seen as how it is seen or thought in relation to her or something else.
Very well put. This here is the reason it's not what you SAY to a woman but how you DELIVER it.

Originally posted by Pook:
Although the feminine does not like intellectualism, she DOES like a guy who is smart (not because she can hear you blabber intellectualism, but because your added value means her added value).
Yes, she is anticipating the social proof she is going to get by showing me off to everyone.

Originally posted by Pook:
It's often good to try to get something like you were doing with the chick. She, herself, might discover a 'mental connection' and fall in love with you with her mind (which the body follows). (And this is all without the incredible connection pattern.)
The incredible connection pattern usually revolves around bringing her back to a time when she felt such a connection. IMO, an overemphasis on that reflects a lack of confidence in one's ability to be the TRUE source of those feelings (though it MAY work). See, Pook, I am not a die hard SSer.

As for what I did with that girl I mentioned, I use a wide variety of things such as that in my routines. And yes they are routines and yes I am 'demonstrating' personality. I do it consciously, I have not claim to have reached some kind of grandiose Don Juan nirvana as you have.

The thing is I don't do this only with women but with the whole world. I am unlike anybody I have ever known. I am a performer and the world is my stage. I have to decide ahead of time how I want to come across to who and I am getting pretty good at it at this point. To tell you the truth I pretty much have to conciously decide this or else just random bits of whatever process my mind is entertaining at the moment comes out and quite frankly most people will think I am nuts if that happens. I take responsability for my communication and I believe I've made it a long way already.


------------------
- The performer known as Nick



[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 09-24-2002).]
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Foxhunter:
I fail to see why I cannot foster an attitude of self-development and self-fulfilment, but still not strive to master the concepts of SS.
Yes, the two things are not in conflict with each other. In addition to that, there are PLENTY of guys focusing on themselves, moving mountains, building towers and in general doing great things who couldn't get laid in a wh0rehouse with a fist full of money. Or if they DO get laid it's because the chick is either a gold digger or want to nail him down as an LTR/husband but NOT because he makes her horny. I rather get laid because I make women horny personally.

------------------
- The performer known as Nick

[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 09-24-2002).]
 

ESPN

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Pook,

Isn't this whole Self-Discipline, Self-Control, Monk Mindset for ultimate Man Mythological achievement YOUR way to ENJOY and FEEL GOOD?
Isn't YOU feeding nature's appetite by constantly wanting to increase your self-esteem by doing great things, having a big ambition in your life and not wasting your time with unproductive activities?
I am pretty sure you ENJOY to put your ambitions in the FOCUS of your life, to read a philosophy book instead of calling the chick you met the other day.
I think this whole Apollo and Dionisius is just an INTERPRETATION of the activities people do and one is not too different from another, we are still following the basic nature of ourselves(create good feelings in our body), but just with different mindsets and TASTES.
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Pook:

Anti-Dump is right all the way. Speed seduction, for the case of long term relationships, is worthless.
To avoid giving the impression that I am pushing SS again, let's just talk about seduction methods in general.

How can you assert that ANY method is "useless for long term relationships"? The INITIAL attraction is ALWAYS about SOMETHING. What goes on in a relationship where the initial attraction eventually becomes challenged by the reality of what it is like to be with that person from one day to the next is a totally different topic than for what reasons two people get together in the beginning.

Originally posted by Pook:

Anti-Dump was a Nice Guy that got into a bad marriage until he changed his ways (and came here to tell us so WE don't have to go through that same 'experience').
Yes. Then he gave us such GREAT advice as "treat all women the same".


------------------
- The performer known as Nick
 

Jester

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is anyone else getting REALLY annoyed by these EGOMANIACS who try to EMPHASIZE every other friggin word?

use the capitals in proper nouns and at the beginning of sentences please.

[This message has been edited by Jester (edited 09-24-2002).]
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Jester:
is anyone else getting REALLY annoyed by these EGOMANIACS who try to EMPHASIZE every other friggin word?

use the capitals in proper nouns and at the beginning of sentences please.
WELL, JESTER, MY particular STYLE of communication happen to be VERY emphatic and I have gotten USED TO posting in NEWSGROUPS where the ONLY way I am ABLE to EMPHASIZE a word is to TYPE it in ALL CAPS. Does that EXPLAIN it SUFFICIENTLY?

Since YOU are so EAGAR to make YOUR pet peeves KNOWN, I will tell YOU about one of MINE: people who BELIEVE that INSULTING me is SOMEHOW going to make me feel INCLINED to ACCOMODATE something as FRIVOLOUS as what YOU are asking me to do.

Jester, in the future when a thread has this much content and you have nothing to add but a flippant quip of a comment, please stay out of it. Otherwise your lame wisecracks are just going to sit in an otherwise great thread like spattering of bird sh!t.

------------------
- The performer known as Nick




[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 09-24-2002).]
 

Jester

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im talking about you now.

[This message has been edited by Jester (edited 10-01-2002).]
 

oreo_renegade

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hey POOK do u have AIM?
if u do, please IM me at
oreo renegade

or post ur AIM name here and ill IM you.

------------------
"... I'm tensed a bit,
and tempted,
when I see the sins,
my friends commit,
I'm infinite... "-EMINEM
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Jester:
i wasnt even talking about you,
That doesn't make a difference, please read my last reply again with an EMPHASIS on the final paragraph.

It would be no big deal if this was a newsgroup I could read through a newsreader where I can filter out posters who make such comments but it's a web-based message board so I don't have that luxury.

------------------
- The performer known as Nick



[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 09-24-2002).]
 

Aiken_Drum

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Wow, this is a very interesting discussion.

What Pooks says is that women are attracted to MEN, the Bruce Willies type. Did you see, for example, 12 monkeys? He barely talks there, doesn't make jokes and of course knows sh!t about SS, but lot of women consider his character very attractive.
I believe that gives us 2 kinds of players personalities.
The cool, relaxed, "I'm the best sh!t around & don't need to prove it" type.
And the funny, who knows he is funny & makes other ppl laugh because both enjoy it.

Actually, I don't think they are that different. A person can make jokes because he WANTS TO or because he wants to be seen as cool & therefore accepted.
That's the whole "be yourself" idea, not about just act naturally as you would now, but change yourself to a person who doesn't need aproval from others.

I think that to become the best MAN or DJ one has to go through a phase when he starts getting lots of success so he can realize that he can get women. So in the begginings I believe SS, techniques, canned lines, etc are a necessary evil.
Then, as the person improves, his personality addapts to provide the qualities of a MAN (alphaness), the thing that all women are inherently after.

I hope this makes sense.
 

Pook

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This is not a complicated subject. Nor is it difficult to understand. It seems that the nature of the subject is not bogged in its communication or understanding, but in clash to some personal views.

I will explain it thus like this and no more will I do so:

A child in the womb! How incredible! Could the child be a football player, a president, or what? This is what every parent wonders.

But let us say the child, upon delivery, said, "Hold! Do not deliver me from this fleshy envelope. I am content and satisfied. I have my rest, my relaxation, my restoration. Away from me, you doctor! For I will stay in the womb."

And what can the doctor say to that!

But, with all of us, we know that such an attitude is gross and wrong to the will of life. The infant has organs of its own, a mind of its own, even its own distinct DNA. It's purpose is to transcend the womb.

And so is the same with Man! With god-like reasoning, of infinite faculties, of action that mocks that of angels, are we to sleep and feed and merely go to our graves like beds?

Just as the child in the womb has arms, legs, lungs, a mind, etc. to transcend the womb so does Man contain the awesome power of Reason, of faculties limited only by imagination, and the means to live outside his time and transmit his thoughts into time (of books, of legends, of history, of wisdom itself).

You must eat to live but you do not live to eat. Food is a source of fuel, of pleasure, even of social contact, but imagine if it is the focus. There are people who go about their entire day debating on what they will eat, when they will eat it, and how they will eat it when they eat it where they are eating it with whom they are eating it with! These people are obviously missing the point. (And they are fat.)

You will not find any of the above concepts in the whole of literature of Speed Seduction. But yes, it does create results.

"But Pook! But Pook! Is not Speed Seduction another quiver to put in our Cupid bow? Is not its long shaft able to penetrate the hot woman in every thrusting thought to spill the poison into her veins to make her blood HOT FOR LUST?"

Speed Seduction is more of an attitude than anything else. If you do not have the attitude, then it will not work. What is the attitude? It is the boy-toy. REACT to whatever makes her horny. The Speed Seducer becomes nothing more than a social dildo. Is he really making love to her or has he merely become a physical manifestation of her masturbation? If you reflect her attitudes, pattern her and all, then what becomes of you? She makes love to herself; that is all.

When I was an AFC, I would do anything to get a girl to like me (flowers, sonnets, chocolate, you know the drill). There are also girls that are AFCish. I say, "I love the color blue!" and she goes, "I love the color blue too!" I say, "I came from the country" and she goes, "Oh, I LOVE the country." "I listen to rock," and she says, "Oh, how I love rock!" It becomes so ridiculous that I can't contain my laughter. I don't want to make love to myself. That is why such behavior instinctively repels us.

What is the Average Frustrated Chump? He is frustrated; he can't get any. He is a chump; he has no sense of self or purpose. Therefore, he is average; there are millions like him.

Speed Seduction merely eliminates the frustrated part. OK, now he can get some. But at what cost? He is still a chump. What self or purpose does he have? Thus, he is still average; there are millions like him.

You are content only at merely eliminating the frustration; I want to blast the AFC entirely away.

Yes, yes, you are not as frustrated. But what purpose does it serve to continually feed on it? What is the fruit when one makes his life a Tabernacle of Flesh?

No! There is more work to do!

Think back to your early AFC days. One chilling question: what if you were successful as a AFC? Countless guys are. They marry the fat chick and have lives ensnared entirely by their new family.

You certainly would not have gone to this website. You certainly would not learn the the things you know, or to be able to do the things you can now do. Your loss catapulted you ahead of the flocks of guys.

You could have gotten the woman in AFC-day and be doomed. But that failure let you into a land of endless possibilities. The point is that satisfaction can numb us to particular possibilities.

Is the point never to be satisfied? NO! The point is to keep marching onward. The women's rejections early on popped you out of your routine drudgery of a life. For a moment, you could see everything clearly. You saw how much of a loser you were. And, therefore, you could change. The key to every great man in history has been the woman. It always has been the woman they COULD NOT HAVE. You would not be at this website if you did have the woman (women) you wanted. This 'knocking you out' of the usual sleepful pattern we live our lives can be used for great opportunity.

Who says the Don Juan style only pertains to women and ends there? The Don Juan knowledge can and should be used and applied throughout all the intricacies of your life. After all, your romantic life is an echo of your regular life.

ESPN says that this type of style is only something I enjoy. That this 'monastery' lifestyle is only because it makes me happy.

First, I don't have a monastery lifestyle. Just because I say 'keep the focus on your life and future and away from women and their endless pleasures' does not mean advocating Monkhood. I am saying this not in a vain spirit, not in a philosophical sense, but from the experience of seeing so many 'super-dudes' who, thinking that since they could get women and sex that they were on the threshold of the world, have their lives swallowed up by the women. One friend has spent the past five years of his life with this 'style' and he has no job, no future, NOTHING. "I want to change" he sobs sadly. And what does he have to show? That he has had sex?

Sex is NOT an achievement. Think about it. Everyone of your descendants had sex. Your Dad had sex. Even your grandmother had sex. EVERYONE can get sex. IT IS NOT NEW.

I am so sick and tired of young men, or should I say boys, who are so overcome with the pleasures of sex that they devote all free-time and life for here-on to it. Eventually you're going to wake up and realize that all that time became a waste. You thought sex was an achievement, something that warrants a trophy. Yet, everyone and practically anyone can get it.

I am tired of Speed Seducers, in their higher-than-all arrogance, declare how they are CHAMPIONS because they can have sex while pointing to some AFCs. Yet, they do not point to the millions of dorks who are getting laid more than they, who (never hearing a word of speed seduction or reading anything on seduction) are STUPID and DUMB. THAT is the real reason why we, in our nice guy days, were so fired up about the jerks getting the girls. It was that we were SMARTER and they were STUPID. It was that we TRIED and they DIDN'T. It never occurred to us that WE were the ones that had the problems. No, it took that one angel rejecting us to get us to honestly look at ourselves and to come to this website.

I am tired of this stupid vanity. So you're getting sex. So what? BIG DEAL. You still have to go to work the next morning. You still have to pay your bills. You are still a nothing.

I am tired of this eternal childhood. I am tired of walking through dormroom halls to see posted on the door, "Gone! Booty call!" Using the university as a brothel is much more expensive than a brothel and removes the focus of what is truly important.

I am tired of ego-maniacs, those who aspire to politics in Washington or to class president. I am tired of their 'look at me, look at me' attitude that they think they are literally accomplishing something, that their position elevates their substance. It is more important to be a Man than President. I am tired of these hollow people, who the words, 'self-education' means nothing since they imagine themselves brilliant merely because of a diploma that people get all the time. I am tired of the herd mentality, how people will take other's opinions and pass it on their own to have no courage to voice a new sliver of a thought that might actually advance the quest of knowledge rather than regurgitating the same cr@p over and over again.

I am tired of this focus on sex. The ancient Greeks were like rabbits. The Native Americans had lots of sex. Even in the socially crystalline ages of the Victorian or Middle Ages, they were getting laid probably more so than our current age.

And I'm tired of all focus of entertainment, psychological theories, and scientific assessments running to the alter of satisfaction to sacrifice our potential. For ANYONE can satisfy their impulses, their temptations, their desires. But at the end of such a life, a very very huge regret will hit you. You will not regret your episodes of pleasure or such. You will, however, say, "I regret that I never fulfilled my potential." But most people don't even say THAT. What they do instead is to make up terms that mask their own misuse of Time and Life. They come up with terms like TALENT or GENIUS to those that do fulfill their potential to hide the fact that they could have been just like them.

If any of you think I'm exaggerating, take any name from the history books. Every single one of them, EVERY SINGLE ONE, had to INVEST his time into his potential. Even Mozart, that 'genius' who wrote symphonies at the age of seven. Yet, even he worked like a dog throughout his life. Nothing worthwile ever comes easily.

Am I against seduction? No! No more am I against life. What I am against is when seduction begins to take AWAY from life. This is when your habits completely eliminate self-improvement and fulfilling one's potential.

Most of the guys here on this forum are YOUNG MALES. What you do today shall echo a lifetime.

If you do place the focus on the women, do not protest or make excuses later in your life when these certain people soar to the stars. You had your chance. You took your choice. They are getting laid just about as much as you but they never obsessed about it.

Keep the focus on you. Seduce to live, do not live to seduce.

Trickynick says,

Yes. Then he [Anti-Dump] gave us such GREAT advice as "treat all women the same".

You did not see this board years ago when I came or many of the others. The average level of Don Juaness has been raised considerably.

Posts revolved around what chicks think of this or that, what type of hair-style to get, and even some Speed Seduction posts here and there. On the OLD FORUM there were great guys like Big Don along with others.

Then came a guy named Anti-Dump who everyone, it seemed, thought he was TOO harsh. Tons of guys (myself included) went to him for advice. You don't find much from Anti-Dump NOW because he did not post often in the TIPS section. His posts were all answering Nice Guys. Eventually, John got tired of the Nice Guys and left.

Anti-Dump changed things around here was because of his iron-rod rule of the focus being on YOU. Who CARES what SHE wants to go on a date (at first). You pick where YOU want to go. As he said, it is a machine. You go through women after women until you find the one that matches you.

The 'treating all women the same' was his getting fed up with guys who would Don Juan a regular girl fine. When it came to a hot girl, they CHANGED and acted differently. All women go through the same process at the beginning. Depending on how they act, you can be more or less harsh.

If Anti-Dump was here now, he would say: "You guys are never going to get into a woman's head. Stop all this philosophy and psychology nonsense. Do not flirt with her or try to read her. Just go for the number and the date. THAT is how men show their interest. Women show theirs by flirting because they DON'T have the ease of asking guys out." His clear cut style cleared up things for many of us. For me, most especially.

ESPN says,

Isn't this whole Self-Discipline, Self-Control, Monk Mindset for ultimate Man Mythological achievement YOUR way to ENJOY and FEEL GOOD?
Isn't YOU feeding nature's appetite by constantly wanting to increase your self-esteem by doing great things, having a big ambition in your life and not wasting your time with unproductive activities?
I am pretty sure you ENJOY to put your ambitions in the FOCUS of your life, to read a philosophy book instead of calling the chick you met the other day.
I think this whole Apollo and Dionisius is just an INTERPRETATION of the activities people do and one is not too different from another, we are still following the basic nature of ourselves(create good feelings in our body), but just with different mindsets and TASTES.


Many people have been on this site for years (myself included). Women are as enigmatical as nature.

But eventually one reaches a point.

You will find yourself winning the duel with Nature in a Laetes form (the secrets of Nature now revealed). But what of it!? For Nature, in her dying breaths, says, "You are poisoned with Time, no philosophy in the world can do you any good."

So let us use the poison to its work. Rather than screaming at the flow of time and how its effects will make your vision less, your hair gray, your body ache, etc. utilize it now to so overcome it.

Take a guy in the hammock versus a guy laboring under the sun. Which is happier?

"The guy in the hammock."

Are you so sure? Actually it is the guy in the sun that is going to be happier and more satisfied. If you could just watch football games and watch movies, you would be miserable as hell. Your life ceases to have a purpose.

Remember when you were a kid and despised the idea of getting a summer job (since you want to enjoy the summer). Yet, once working you realize the joy in the dignity of work and the fruits of your labor.

So is the same with life! Merely running after women will choke your life with a suffocating type of miserableness. Follow your passion throughout your life and you'll be infinitely happier than any other course.

Who is playing WHO? Byron again comes to make the closing comment:

"I should like to know WHO has been carried off, except poor dear me-I have been more ravished myself than anybody since the Trojan war."

Byron recognizes who is being played, much to his (and our) astonishment.

------------------
POOK
------------------------
"As you think, you shall become."

"Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
 

ESPN

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Pook,

Mozart probably had FEELINGS for music, he enjoyed the process of thinking about symphonies,
learning about other musicians, improving, using all his self-efficacy to achieve his full POTENTIAL in the music area.

He had the PASSION for music and the EXCELLENCE in that AREA became his HIGHEST AMBITION.

Why a INDIVIDUAL cannot have the same PASSION for seduction?Why he cannot use his effort, energy and time to study, learn with other successful people in that area, make this one of his highest ambitions?
Why he can't learn whatever he needs to achieve the EXCELLENCE in that area?
What makes one activity a "good area for a real man to join" or "waste of time!, such area does not deserve the efforts of a man!" ?
The TASTES of the individual, for YOU the idea of using all your time and living existence to seduce woman and do whatever it takes to sleep with them is waste of time, and the seduction techniques used by Speed Seducers seems to offend you, it does not fit with your tastes and probably the idea of spending time with seductions and clubs isn't one of your AMBITIONS.
Each individual have DESIRES and GOALS to be achieved, you are right by replying to this topic and keep saying the importance of focusing on a productive life instead of wasting the existence with the pursue of the constant pleasure, there are MANY guys here that need this advice, they focus in only on the pleasure itself they do not have ambitions, they live just for today and will live the same today forever.(And you will agree with me that this is sad)

In the other hand, l can't see what's wrong on focusing on the improvement of your seduction technique, on creating a hobby of seduction and learning new ways to create the results you want, l can't see what's wrong with pursuing EXCELLENCE in seduction, the same way l can't see what's wrong with Mozart, he pursed excellence in his area and should be respected.
A international rock star may say he is a loser, he may say he wasted his existence with a type of music that was terrible.
"I don't care how young he started to make songs, his music is terrible"

If we analyze this more deeply we will see that it is just a battle of values, of tastes, that this is a INTERPRETATION of each other activities.

I am still can't see why you don't accept the idea of pursuing the excellence in seduction, the idea of seduction as a AMBITION, l really don't know why.
Maybe SS conflicts with your values(and make you see that as boy-toy), maybe you haven't thought about it more deeply, anyway my point is, if someone enjoys seduction, he should pursue the excellence in this area, pursue new methods and techniques and make it a hobby, passion or whatever, you may say that a life without great achievements is a waste, that the pursue of sex and seduction as a passion is decadence of man, that this is the man as a slave of himself, but if we analyses this situation more deeply, isn't this the battle of values?the battle of tastes?
The rock star who gets mad after hearing a classical music?

The point here is, as a long you are moving forward, creating new goals, pursing the EXCELLENCE and HAPPY with your choices, nothing else matters.
Pursue what you think is important.(And it includes constantly analyzing what you think is important for the rest of your life, that's how joy and satisfaction is born)

[This message has been edited by ESPN (edited 09-27-2002).]
 

oreo_renegade

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haha pook man, ur like me, except more mature and developed, its like..
im reincarnated from you or someting, how i feel, you put it into words

what is wisdom? is it the knowledge and reasoning to do the right thing? what is right? wat is wrong? its only beleifs in your matrix.

mayb its the goal of getting hapyness, and one who acheives happyness is the wisest of all? your happy pook, or a better word is tranquil, you seem tranquil, how old are you?
your early 20s?

you want every1 to understand what you have, you must learn that they cant pook, every1 is different, people tihnk on different levels, if a person is dumb and happy, what could be the harm? you should let them stay the way they are, they might realize you opinions later on, theyll get bored of it soon enuff, and then they might seek a deeper meaning in life

it seems to me like you strive to make every1 try to understand what you know, but you have to let everyone learn on their own, your journey is what made the destinaion more rich for you pook

another thing WOMEN want MEN
GIRLS want BOYS

you must decide where you play into that picture, unfortunatly, not every1 can b a man pook, some of us will remain boys forever, but they might not realize it, so it doesnt hamr them.

i really want your opinions on a lot of tihngs pook, send me an email at I_5D_oreo_dude@hotmail.com or instans messege me on AIM at
oreo renegade

hope o hear from you.


------------------
"... I'm tensed a bit,
and tempted,
when I see the sins,
my friends commit,
I'm infinite... "-EMINEM
 

SexPDX

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Originally posted by Pook:
This is not a complicated subject. Nor is it difficult to understand. It seems that the nature of the subject is not bogged in its communication or understanding, but in clash to some personal views.
I am understanding what you are saying. You are saying that women are a part of life and should not be the focus.

However, there are ideas you have expressed that are in conflict with each other.

You condemn SS as "boy toy" or "social dildo" behavior because it responds to what makes the woman want to have sex but at the same time you say you are not against seduction. What kind of seduction doesn't respond to what makes the woman want to have sex? That's kind of the point isn't it. You want to have sex with her already, but she needs yet to be raised to buying temperature.

Originally posted by Pook:

Then came a guy named Anti-Dump who everyone, it seemed, thought he was TOO harsh. Tons of guys (myself included) went to him for advice. You don't find much from Anti-Dump NOW because he did not post often in the TIPS section. His posts were all answering Nice Guys. Eventually, John got tired of the Nice Guys and left.

Anti-Dump changed things around here was because of his iron-rod rule of the focus being on YOU. Who CARES what SHE wants to go on a date (at first). You pick where YOU want to go. As he said, it is a machine. You go through women after women until you find the one that matches you.

The 'treating all women the same' was his getting fed up with guys who would Don Juan a regular girl fine. When it came to a hot girl, they CHANGED and acted differently. All women go through the same process at the beginning. Depending on how they act, you can be more or less harsh.

If Anti-Dump was here now, he would say: "You guys are never going to get into a woman's head. Stop all this philosophy and psychology nonsense. Do not flirt with her or try to read her. Just go for the number and the date. THAT is how men show their interest. Women show theirs by flirting because they DON'T have the ease of asking guys out." His clear cut style cleared up things for many of us. For me, most especially.
What you describe is the mentality of a guy who has been sh!t on so many times that he has fully collapsed into this mechanical way of thinking that enables him not to think or feel anything about the woman. He subscribed to the loserish attitude that there is NOTHING you can do to understand women better or increase the probability of her being attracted to you. Take this little nugget for example:

Do not flirt with her or try to read her. Just go for the number and the date. THAT is how men show their interest.
Now, Pook, I realize this is you speaking for Anti-Dump but I will trust your judgement that this is indeed what he would say.

There are so many wrong ideas in what he (you) said in TWO SENTENCES that with all of them combined I am having a hard time believing this guy ever got ANYWHERE with women. However, I will just point out TWO of those ideas since I am in a hurry to go make breakfast.

First, it's not about communicating your interest but INFLUENCING HERS. Your influence over a woman is the product of her attraction to you. Expressing your interest does nothing for you unless you demonstrate value to her.

Second, He acts like the number/date bit is his only option. If he is wants to communicate his interest like he (you actually) implies in that statement then why is content llet girls mop the floor with him playing phone number routlette while he neglects the much more effective path of having a tongue-down session and/or fvcking her on the spot.

He left because he got tired of the nice guys? Maybe he saw too much of himself in them. What's the difference between him and them other then he's been kicked around a little but been to dense to change his methods in any way but closing down completely into this mechanical way of thinking.

There is a name for guys like Anti-Dump, it's called AFC.

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- The performer known as Nick

[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 09-28-2002).]
 
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