What do you guys think about PUA's?

[Splendidostring]

I often read post talking about pick-up lines and PUA's.

To be quite honest, I always thought pick up lines were lame.
When I started working on my inner-self, of course I wanted to get laid
but I never wanted to do it with pick up lines. I wanted it to be from myself.

Pickup lines say lots of things about people who use it. Can't use anything of their own because they wouldn't know what to say.

For what I'm concerned, it's way more gratifying to use the situation to create your own vibe with girls. When I meet girls, I will definitely use what they say and transform it into funny things against them to have fun WITH them.

I don't intend to spit against pua's nor to start a war but I'm far more interested in developing myself with my own mind in order to get what I want.

What do you guys think?

 

[Solomon]

I often read post talking about pick-up lines and PUA's.

To be quite honest, I always thought pick up lines were lame.QUOTE]


Basically....

on top of that the community got sold out by their "God" (Mystery is making millions of you guys and vh1 pick up artist)

There so many pua guys now that women are becoming hip to the community, they know the lines, the routines, this is why inner game can encompass all, because inner game is deeper then any method its who you are its beyond gaming!!

my best lines have always been the spur of the moment (as Tariq Nasheed says, being original will make you more congruent)

 

[Dannyrt34]

You'd be surprised at how many people are with you on that. As far as I'm concerned, being able to think on your own two feet, and establishing confidence in yourself with making conversation will help you with more than just women.

 

[Splendidostring]

Hey guys,

Same thing for me Solomon. My greatest dates were those where I was totally free/creative in it.

Once, I was with this chick playing pool. I was making fun of her (always to have fun with them, not to be mean) and at some point she told me I was way too ****y. I told her : "I'm sure you like it" (back-to-back) and then she said yes.

I'm writing this down, not to flash or anything but because that was possible since I felt TOTAL social freedom. I stayed true to myself, went with the flow and it worked great for me , it still does. The greatest dates I've ever had were with girls I've met feeling totally *socially free*.

I guess that's why PU doesn't do it for me.

 

[Solomon]

nice

Same thing for me Solomon. My greatest dates were those where I was totally free/creative in it.

Once, I was with this chick playing pool. I was making fun of her (always to have fun with them, not to be mean) and at some point she told me I was way too ****y. I told her : "I'm sure you like it" (back-to-back) and then she said yes.

I'm writing this down, not to flash or anything but because that was possible since I felt TOTAL social freedom. I stayed true to myself, went with the flow and it worked great for me , it still does. The greatest dates I've ever had were with girls I've met feeling totally *socially free*.

I guess that's why PU doesn't do it for me.

Bingo by being socailly free you are talking about being yourself and being congruent, this is why I could never limit myself to a "routine"or "method". Everytime I tried a "method" I felt like women could tell, hell I have done crap these guru's said never not to do and it worked, and you know what? if it's congruent with you and works, then who is someone to tell you different? if you getting women/laid/friendship whatever it is you desire and you are doing it by being you then who is someone to tell you different?

I honestly think the better you become at "gaming" the less "gaming" you do, and I'm not speaking theory, I have seen this because your inner-game/confdience level picks up to such a level where what you do is becoming more and more congruent with yourself.

Solo

 

[ready123]

first of all, we're all PUA's to an extent, at least in action. if you've ever approached a girl and opened a conversation out of interest, you were trying to pick her up

second, even way back, a lot of PUA's were using natural game type models. Look at Juggler. While everyone else was memorizing lines, Juggler was telling guys to go out and basically be authentic. Vin Dicarlo and Dimitri were other PUAs trying to teach guys how to be naturally attractive and they came up with some wierd ass ideas trying to conceptualize natural attraction (anyone heard of VAC?). Now you have Tyler and the guys from RSD, who used to be all about lines, but decided to be natural and did a way better job conceptualizing and verifying what it means to be natural than Juggler or Vin Dicarlo ever did. And most of these guys, at least the ones that are well adjusted, don't even identify with being a PUA. They're just being themselves, living their life.

 

[everywomanshero]

The problem with the PUA stuff is there are so many desperate men who will trust anyone, that there have been a lot of false gods get idolized. I am fairly sure Ross Jefferies and Tyler Durden together have probably picked up less than a dozen attractive women without paying them OTOH, I have little reason to doubt that Mystery has slept with hoardes of women who are at least somewhat attractive, even if many were troubled people (a lot of hot chicks are insane, sad to say).

The other thing is people can have vastly different goal. Mystery has stated all along he likes being the center of attention and captivating groups of people. That's probably just as important to him as the lay is. I'm a little different, I love coming in and being able to connect with a solo girl or a girl with one friend (or sometimes the way the group is structured that is the effective situation even if others are around). My advice is going to sound radically different than Mystery's advice in some respects. I sleep with beautiful women, I could give a bucket of **** about Mystery or his Method because I don't need it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be useful for someone else.

That are socially savy people who just seem in touch with others and have all the right moves there can be no doubt. To want to understand the differences in those with high social skills from those with low and to discover learning strategies to bridge the gap is a worthwhile goal. Certainly having high social skills aids one in the conquest of women, but the two are not the same. There are many who have many a great conquest who are less than perfect in social situations and there are men who are great in social situations who cannot seem to create the right chemistry with an individual. A pickup instructor has the difficult job of trying to figure out what the end goal even looks like for a student, what strategies will be most effective, and most fail something terrible at this job it seems. The subject is complicated, the science immature, and the art made difficult by the vast number of options and multiple sources of casuation that are not easily determined.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

The ones I like the most are Zan perrion, and David deangelo (He used to post here, and is more of a salesman). Mystery seems to make things way complicated. Tyler is over the fence; Btw, there is an mp3 file (104mb) on his website for download. I was listening and he said "Would a girl I´ve been dating answer the phone at 4 am? Yes, because that demonstrates a higher value". WTF is this? Actually, calling up a girl at this time shows a huge boundary problem/lack of respect. All this idea of higher value has been overrated, there´s much more behind this. All these "concepts" will backfire if taken too far.

There are so many books that have nothing to do with seduction, but that will help you a lot in the long run. Most of these PUA books stay on the surface, and are of short term application/use.

 

[daygameguy]

PUAs are masters of structured game.

So, unless you are a natural (or have reached such a level through practice), there is no harm in using their knowledge as a resource to guide you.

The problem is, the PUA knowledge is much deeper than most people understand. It seems kind of complex and childish on the outside, but if you watch entire seminars of some of the best PUAs out there (Style, Mystery, Adam), you will bow down to their skill.

People talk about inner game, but inner game is useless if you have no idea how to project that inner personality to people you've just met, in a short amount of time.

Lots of guys have inner game but they are neither naturally good with women (smooth talkers) nor are they having any form of structured game.

PUAs are guys you can learn from. They don't deserve to be hated, nor do they deserve to be worshiped.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

People talk about inner game, but inner game is useless if you have no idea how to project that inner personality to people you've just met, in a short amount of time.

Damn it, you´ve got it. That´s the point. That´s the bridge. Btw, this is what I need, lol.

 

[AaronDan]

FINALLY!!! A pickup forum that has people who sound like normal cool guys!!! I'm so sick of all the over complication of social interactions.

I've always been repulsed by canned lines and routines and have definitely found my niche as far as learning goes. The only guys teaching this stuff that I keep up with now are Troy Dizon (formerly of Charisma Arts) and TimmyD (still with Charisma Arts). These guys are the real deal as far as no lines and no BS. Unlike most guys teaching this stuff, their students actually continue to see results long after their instruction. I definitely recommend checking their stuff out. You can find Troy's blog at Masterlife.podbean.com and TimmyD's blog at beme123.wordpress.com.

Definitely legit stuff if you are turned off by most of "the community".

 

[ready123]

The ones I like the most are Zan perrion, and David deangelo (He used to post here, and is more of a salesman). Mystery seems to make things way complicated. Tyler is over the fence; Btw, there is an mp3 file (104mb) on his website for download. I was listening and he said "Would a girl I´ve been dating answer the phone at 4 am? Yes, because that demonstrates a higher value". WTF is this? Actually, calling up a girl at this time shows a huge boundary problem/lack of respect. All this idea of higher value has been overrated, there´s much more behind this. All these "concepts" will backfire if taken too far.

Tyler's point was the girl would pick up at 4 am because he's higher value, not that calling at 4 am demonstrates higher value

 

[Solomon]

check the break down

PUAs are masters of structured game.

So, unless you are a natural (or have reached such a level through practice), there is no harm in using their knowledge as a resource to guide you.

The problem is, the PUA knowledge is much deeper than most people understand. It seems kind of complex and childish on the outside, but if you watch entire seminars of some of the best PUAs out there (Style, Mystery, Adam), you will bow down to their skill.

People talk about inner game, but inner game is useless if you have no idea how to project that inner personality to people you've just met, in a short amount of time.

Lots of guys have inner game but they are neither naturally good with women (smooth talkers) nor are they having any form of structured game.

PUAs are guys you can learn from. They don't deserve to be hated, nor do they deserve to be worshiped.

mmh I wonder why the "teachers" and "Guru's" have not posted on this thread because we have "tons" who are on this site

I agree to an extend but to me canned lines are b.s., I had a buddy who has confidence issues/AA etc etc. I went out with him a couple times but he decided to join a local "pua lair". At first I was miff and disappointed (because I thought I failed him, and he knew better) but I realized he wanted to be part of something (call it a movement a social group whatever) he went out with these guys, and it didn't help him at all. The PUA leader was a power hungry control freak (mmh sounds familiar?) and these guys would run around using canned crap(I could post some stories he would tell me, beyond hilarious!), which didn't have anything to do with the settings or even having a goal in terms of what they were after (which is women duuh!!)and after a couple months he still didn't as so much get a number

whats my points? my point is this, if you wanna get better with women, and don't have "inner game" or confidence, you have to develop yourself first, this is why self-improvement is recommended by lot of people(including me). Using canned lines but not having the confidence to use them, makes that method obsolete. This is why confidence is critical. Before I joined the community I was raw and had confidence and was eager to learn, but I needed to polish the edges, I have only been in this for what 4 months? but my improvement has been noticeable(to the point where I don't need to "game" now). I never went to a seminar nor have I watched one, I personally believe that guys need to improve themselves first, if that means going to the gym, reading books on body language and buying new clothes. So be it, but if you have no ounce of confidence and you wanna run around using Mystery's lines it won't work.

In terms of bowing down to Mystery's skill, I personally think Mystery should get the props he deserves but every vid, I have seen him with hitting on chicks, I have not been impressed(including his X from "The Game") that's my personal opinion though, I dare any of these guru's to go to some of the places I have gone to sarge, They wouldn't even be able to pick up sh*t

Solo

 

[Snow Plowman]

Didn't read the thread but if your thinking the whole PUA is "lines" and "Routines", your missing out on alot of gold. I've only recently started sifting through different school's of thoughts and I must say alot of guys have some real good stuff.

Look beyond the technique and look at the mindset these guys have...why do they do such and such technique?

I remember way back I had a MM guy explain to me about Pivots and merging sets, this helped me alot and were now pretty cool with each other. I've seen a few guys who were good with MM, ALWAYS seeing them isolated with chicks and making out.

Just recently a guy had me listen to a bit of Mr M's and Braddock's 9s and 10s audio from lovesystems...I realized many of the mindsets they have are identical to how my game is now. (Which concluded why I have no problem meeting real HOT chicks)

As I realize don't get caught up with one school of thought and follow it like a fan boy...If something resonates with "Who You Are", check it out...

 

[I.A.F.Y.B.]

Basicly, I just think PUA's are guys who just learned some things to pick up women. Unlike this site, which helps you in alot of aspects of your life and your game.

 

[COD]

FACT IS PICKUP LINES DO WORK.....I think people automatically think of a cheesy "hey baby wanna get lucky" line instead of an opener.

Theortically U could say anything an achieve success, however 2 people can say THE EXACT SAME words and get 2 entirerly differnt results.

It's not what you say specifically, it's more about the way you say it and more importantly what you say AFTER the pickup line that ultimately predetermines continual success.

Is there a magic phrase that will instantly make a woman drop her panties.....NO, DO some lame, cheesy, pickup lines repel women.....sure, the thinking here should be WE KNOW ITS CHEESY,...SAY IT like a joke.

ITS NOT THE LINE THAT WILL MAKE HER MINE......ITS your time.

Sincerity goes a long way.....lets say I see a chic and I say "U tried the rest now experience the BEST".......most will roll their eyes and laugh in your face.

It's the amount of "cheesy/lameness" that will trigger the "HE's SO full of himself" shield. But if I said it with a total joking attitude or reworded it to "a good looking woman deserves a great man in her life and I am him" might work in my favor.

Several factors include (type of girl, forum, how u deliver the line, the line itself, looks, if they are alone or with friends, online or infield, etc).

I have said lines like "I want to wear your vagina as a hat" and made them work. There is more going on than just a line, for all intensive purposes it's what U say or do after the line that WILL determine your success.

The purpose of any opener/pickup line is to get to the next level, open the possibilities, initiate the seduction. Humor infusion and body language will enhance your success rate.

Do not under-estimate a well placed, creative pickup line.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Well, most of the dating gurus I've tuned into discourage the use of pick-up lines. They say those lines should only be used once you have talked to her and you want to make a bit of comic relief somewhere into the conversation to get a chuckle out of her if it's too tense.

I have difficulty trying to get a woman to laugh because I'm mainly serious myself. Having a one-liner joke or two in your arsenal and using it once you are a few minutes into an interaction I think would be helpful.

I was thinking of trying out a RDS Tyler Durder seminar in my city this coming March. It's free, but you have to pay a refundable deposit of $ 47. When I was thinking of booking, I saw the price go up to $ 65 or something and just lost interest. I'd have to call in to find out about that discrepency, but it doens't make me trust it.

If these PUA stuff works on me, then technically it's supposed to motivate me to go beyond my 'nerve barrier' and have fun with women. A successful structured system will not necessarily teach me how to get laid, but how to have fun and potentially make a woman's day (one that I obviously like) and my own at the same time where she is wanting me after the interaction. Have yet to see anything like that.

 

[daygameguy]

I will post a journal soon and eliminate all the BS myths in you guys's heads.

 

[Splendidostring]

Hey guys

Lots of interesting comments in there

I like to see everyone point of view ..as far as I'm concerned , I'm not into pick-up lines but I'll keep an open mind on this.

 

[thefonz]

Well, being a PUA is more than just pickup lines....in fact, I would say that most PUA's are against pickup lines. Mystery included.

Also, there's alot of talk about inner game as if it's all that matters. I have to disagree. There is plenty of path's to becoming good with women and it's just stupid to narrow it down to 1 school of thought.

There's alot of things going into the community I was totally against such as wearing certain clothes, walking in a certain manner, and saying certain things. I think once you actually TRY doing some of these things and seeing some success than most of you will stop acting alot less skeptical about others peoples ideas. Theres not alot of action in the community and you can tell that so many haters are afraid of trying new things. If you say it's ALL inner game than you clearly need to get out more because the whole inner game trend is just that....a trend. The two biggest sellers of 2008 were "the blueprint" and "flawless natural" which were appealing to normal guys coming into the community.

But neglecting outter game is just stupid if you're serious about getting good. Don't be lazy, work on both.