What’s Killing Marriage—Unmarriageable Men or Liberal Women?

BadBoy89

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Young women are losing faith in marriage. This is the takeaway from a dramatic new Pew poll showing that in the past 30 years, the share of 12th grade girls who say they are most likely to “choose to get married” one day has dropped more than 20 percentage points, from 83% in 1993 to 61% in 2023. Meanwhile the share of young men who hope to get married has remained steady, at around 75%.


Other polls show similar findings. The Survey Center on American Life recently found that a majority of single women (55%) think that single women are happier than married women (they’re really not—more on that in a moment), whereas a majority (68%) of single men take the opposite view.

There is no debating that women’s confidence in and devotion to marriage is falling. But there is robust debate about whether that’s a bad thing, and what’s causing it. Theories about young women’s declining interest in wedlock typically fall into two camps. The problem is either 1) the boys, or 2) the (feminist) girls.

Proponents in the first camp, usually feminists, suggest women still value marriage; they just can’t find enough marriageable men. Writing for The New York Times in 2023, Anna Louie Sussman said the “state of men today” is too dispiriting for women: too many men are drug-addled, unemployed or underemployed, socially inept, and emotionally unavailable. Women who take this view make much of the fact that men are attending and graduating from college at lower rates than women, not working as much as they used to, and many are addicted to porn and often seem unable or unwilling to “engage in a conversation and maintain a normal human relationship.”

This camp will point to the fact that marriage rates amidst the upper-middle class (including liberals!) haven’t fallen as precipitously as other groups. See, they’ll say, women haven’t been brainwashed by the HBO show “Sex and the City” and the #Girlboss erathey still want to get married! There are just not enough good men left.

This camp has a point. It’s true that too many men are floundering on many fronts—from education to employment—and that a kind of “male malaise” has made a growing number of young men unappealing to the opposite sex.

But there is an undeniable ideological dimension to falling marriage rates, too. Data show marriage has lost its appeal primarily for women on the left, who are much less likely than conservative women to marry and have children, as a new Institute for Family Studies report shows. Liberal women are also much less likely to desire marriage and children than their conservative peers. Another recent poll from NBC News found that liberal Gen Z women rate “being married” and “having children” as among their lowest priorities for a successful life, far below a fulfilling job, financial security and emotional health.

Many feminists no doubt see women’s increasing wariness toward marriage as a welcome sign of enlightenment: they shouldn’t value marriage, they say, because it’s not good for them. In their view, married women are on the losing end of a losing bargain, saddled with the lion’s share of domestic duties and the crushing “mental load” of raising a family while reaping 80 cents on their husband’s dollar for whatever professional work they do manage to achieve. This, they’ll argue, is why we live in the age of the upbeat divorce memoir, and the promise that “assisted reproductive” technology has made motherhood a plausibly solo endeavor, not subject to time or even biology.

This theory carries weight, too. There is no doubt that marriage can be hard at times, and modern American marriage is hard in particular ways. The 50/50 split is a myth. Women bear a bigger burden at home than do men. It’s hard to afford life on one salary, and it’s nearly impossible to be a working mother and to feel like you’re filling any of your roles as well as you’d like.

But hard doesn’t necessarily mean unhappy. Our research at the Institute for Family Studies routinely reveals that the women in America who are forging the most meaningful and happy lives are married mothers. In fact, married mothers are nearly twice as likely to be “very happy” with their lives as their single, childless peers.

So, if marriage and family really are good for women, why isn’t anyone getting married? Are the available men really not marriageable? Or has the “feminist revolution” won the day?

Both theories overlook a common enemy: Big Tech.

We don’t just mean the obvious—that people cheat online, that men play too many video games, that dating apps are a hellscape of catfishing and suspicion. We live our lives online, and we decide how to live, in part, by watching what everyone else is doing (online). The result is pushing both men and women away from marriage, by making it harder for men to rise to the occasion of becoming marriageable and by making it harder for women, especially the liberal women who spend the most time online, to see the point of marriage in the first place. Big Tech is degrading men’s marriageability even as it divides the sexes from one another ideologically.

Both young men and young women looking for a life of satisfaction and meaning in an uncertain and often terrifying world should ruthlessly loosen the grip Big Tech has over their lives.

The internet is the panopticon
: here is where men find porn and porn finds men; here are the easy, lazy prospects of AI “relationships” and the portal to a million digital gateway drugs. As psychologist Jonathan Haidt put it recently on the “Honestly with Bari Weiss” podcast, “What we’re doing to our young men is we are addicting them in such ways that if you get addicted to one thing, it’s easier to get addicted to everything else…” The porn, the gaming, even the “game-ification” of investing apps from Big Tech help to explain why too many “boys are not turning into men,” Haidt said.

The nature and content of digital offerings are degrading men’s marriageability and women’s, especially liberal women’s, interest in putting a ring on it. Neither sex is developing the capacity to embrace self-sacrifice or long-suffering commitment, precisely the virtues which marriage requires. They’re also what makes marriage so life-giving, character building and personally gratifying. Psychologists have long documented this paradox: deep, lasting happiness is much more strongly tied to meaning than it is to pleasure. The internet calls the kind of virtues that sustain love and marriage “toxic.” The happiness research calls it “the answer.”.

Both young men and young women looking for a life of satisfaction and meaning in an uncertain and often terrifying world should ruthlessly loosen the grip Big Tech has over their lives. Devices that degrade their capacity to socialize, date, mate and marry must be put away. Pornographers, manosphere misogynists, and miserable divorced feminists should not be their source of ideas about life. Their offerings are fake and predatory. They are not credible witnesses to the value and beauty of marriage. Sofie Berzon MacKie is—and her witness is that the best option for joy is beautifully analog: it is getting married and building a family.

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Thoughts?
 

BackInTheGame78

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Neither.

People are starting to realize, especially men, that marriage was a business contract for hundreds of years because it was a business relationship. That's why affairs were common and tolerated, because they had their "business partner" and then they had the person they actually loved.

It was almost never the same person.

Well, at some point recently, marriage became based on love rather than business but the original contract never changed.

So you have two things that are completely opposed to each other. If they want more marriages then they need to update the contact to reflect what it has become today, not what it was 800 years ago.
 

quodlibet

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The reason for decline of marriages in the West is simpler than all this.

It all boils down to this:

As women have more financial independence, marriage is less compelling as a survival strategy. For them, marriage goes from "a need" to "a want". And that causes some to opt not to get married.

That said, no amount of money will replace a very human need for emotional intimacy. This is biological and without this desire, the human race would've ended long ago.

Women in their 20s might think they want to be single forever because they have options. But when they're in their 40s and no longer have options in the dating market, all that desire to remain single changes quick.

Polls that says women are happier being single are BS. Women usually defend their decision tooth and nail out of pride. Whatever they decide, they think they are happier for it because they decided it.
 

tesla8520

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The reason for decline of marriages in the West is simpler than all this.

It all boils down to this:

As women have more financial independence, marriage is less compelling as a survival strategy. For them, marriage goes from "a need" to "a want". And that causes some to opt not to get married.

That said, no amount of money will replace a very human need for emotional intimacy. This is biological and without this desire, the human race would've ended long ago.

Women in their 20s might think they want to be single forever because they have options. But when they're in their 40s and no longer have options in the dating market, all that desire to remain single changes quick.

Polls that says women are happier being single are BS. Women usually defend their decision tooth and nail out of pride. Whatever they decide, they think they are happier for it because they decided it.
Neither.

People are starting to realize, especially men, that marriage was a business contract for hundreds of years because it was a business relationship. That's why affairs were common and tolerated, because they had their "business partner" and then they had the person they actually loved.

It was almost never the same person.

Well, at some point recently, marriage became based on love rather than business but the original contract never changed.

So you have two things that are completely opposed to each other. If they want more marriages then they need to update the contact to reflect what it has become today, not what it was 800 years ago.

Given thiose two brilliant analysis, I therefore add...
What kind of man are women looking for.. so?
Is the right kind, the higher value in terms of status, beauty, money, or what makes them feel listened or emotionally connected to?

Obviously if the first type of man also has the second quality it is exceptional, but perhaps 1% is too much.
In my experience and perspective, women, like men, are moving beyond high-value men, etc.
Of course, you shouldn't be a bum, but some women are waking up and working hard on their traumas, learning that relationships with "calmer" men, or at least those who make them feel more listened to, are better than those they've had in the past with "emotional" men who made them feel like an emotional rollercoaster.

If you meet a woman after 35 and she's already experienced the rollercoaster ride or the thrills of a toxic relationship, that's a big red flag, but all that woman wants and is looking for... if she's working really hard at it, is a long-term connection she's never had, but craves.

The "beta" man has the advantage of rediscovering himself, learning respect, and having fulfilling relationships later in life.

What kind of man do you think she's looking for?


@BackInTheGame78 (I've saved your post)
 
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Bigpapa

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The reason for decline of marriages in the West is simpler than all this.

It all boils down to this:

As women have more financial independence, marriage is less compelling as a survival strategy. For them, marriage goes from "a need" to "a want". And that causes some to opt not to get married.

That said, no amount of money will replace a very human need for emotional intimacy. This is biological and without this desire, the human race would've ended long ago.

Women in their 20s might think they want to be single forever because they have options. But when they're in their 40s and no longer have options in the dating market, all that desire to remain single changes quick.

Polls that says women are happier being single are BS. Women usually defend their decision tooth and nail out of pride. Whatever they decide, they think they are happier for it because they decided it.
From what I have seen and experienced is that women want a high value guy for LTR but they want to control the relationship and basically the guy to be their b1atch

and ofc, if you are a true high value you can not accept being in a dynamic where you are not treated nice

but at the same time if the guy accepts her control, he looses his sexiness and women start to disengage because they think he is actually low value for putting up with crap that even she knows deep down that it is too much

I would say that this is what changed actually, the need of control that women want in the relationship, which most likely it is tied to the feminist propaganda about not being weak

So yeah, I would say that it is mainly about what propaganda tells women to do ( and most of them take it like that without thinking too much ) without actually realizing that the propaganda has 2 colliding ideas that you can never work out
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

BackInTheGame78

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The reason for decline of marriages in the West is simpler than all this.

It all boils down to this:

As women have more financial independence, marriage is less compelling as a survival strategy. For them, marriage goes from "a need" to "a want". And that causes some to opt not to get married.

That said, no amount of money will replace a very human need for emotional intimacy. This is biological and without this desire, the human race would've ended long ago.

Women in their 20s might think they want to be single forever because they have options. But when they're in their 40s and no longer have options in the dating market, all that desire to remain single changes quick.

Polls that says women are happier being single are BS. Women usually defend their decision tooth and nail out of pride. Whatever they decide, they think they are happier for it because they decided it.
This is all well and good but it fails to talk about the overriding social pressure women face and that most were raised dreaming of the day they get married since they were a little girl and their wedding day.

Both sides are opting out to a degree, but it's mostly guys that don't want to marry and keep stringing the woman along.
 

Hal9000

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Modern western society makes it so that neither gender really needs the other any more. As long as you are willing to live in relative poverty, due to only having one income instead of two, young single people seem content to play on their phones or hang out with their friends during their spare time instead of actively engaging with the opposite gender. Short of some kind of apocalyptic event I don't really see that changing.
 

The Duke

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What's killing marriage?


-Societal pressure isn't there like it once was.
-Women make their own money.
-Too many out of shape, fat females.
-Too many women with too many times around the cahk carousel. No one wants to keep the town bicycle as their own.
-Too much attention/validation/dopamine hits for women on social media platforms.
-Too many unproductive men addicted to porn, video games, and living anti-social sedentary lifestyles.
-Women can't cook, clean, or raise children and don't want to. So she has little to offer a man besides her body.
-A lot of women are more of a liability than an asset.
-Churches don't push marriage and most don't shame you for not being married.

I'm glad marriage is a dying concept. It offers nothing positive for me. I think society not pushing marriage has truly hurt women the most. Marriage was a great construct that helped them manage their pu$$y properly, now days its wide open literally. It also helped people live better economically.
 

BaronOfHair

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Thoughts?
Young women are losing faith in marriage... It's about f-cking time that we all stopped having blind faith in things, without ever examining the manner in which they operate, their costs, likely ROI, etc etc You'll get no gripe from me on this front

Let's now start "losing faith" in The US government as it currently exists also, rather than daydreaming of a future in which Uncle Sam will become an RL equivalent to Jack Bauer, Ethan Hunt, or/and The Avengers, instead of the confederacy of dunces it's been for decades now
 

plumber

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Young women are losing faith in marriage... It's about f-cking time that we all stopped having blind faith in things, without ever examining the manner in which they operate, their costs, likely ROI, etc etc You'll get no gripe from me on this front

Let's now start "losing faith" in The US government as it currently exists also, rather than daydreaming of a future in which Uncle Sam will become an RL equivalent to Jack Bauer, Ethan Hunt, or/and The Avengers, instead of the confederacy of dunces it's been for decades now
if a man is in the top 1% the system looks good. and for them is good. and they or we will keep it the way it is.
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

sevbucmash

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@BadBoy89 people have lost God, both men and women. The devil has quietly setup a trap for white men and women, in which population is thinned with low birth rates, and then further diluted and intermixed with none white migrants. Lack of marriage is just one aspect of bad things that are happening to white people throughout the world, from United States, to Europe and Russia, to South Africa and Australia.


People are starting to realize, especially men, that marriage was a business contract
Not true, it's a lie, though goyim are beginning to believe this lie. Jewish marriages never suffered same debilitating and population thinning psychological cataclysms

The US government
You barking up a wrong tree. Honestly, you do not see an enemy. Though this enemy controls the media and the money and politicians you vote for end up becoming their tools.
 
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