We've all been there, first date fail... advice

[Toddz]

Long story short. Was spinning plates last summer with a solid 4-5 girls in rotation then dropped them all this winter and basically went monk mode from Thanksgiving until now. 3 of the girls I was dating now have dudes, and 2 moved away so I can't even take them out to warm up. So my game is def a bit rusty.

Went on bumble and matched with a bunch of girls. I have 4 dates set up this weekend with the first being last night. I'm: 39 never married and no kids, I'm a good looking guy and established (own a home, car, etc,) She's 40 an HB8, smoking body, successful, travels the world for a living, divorced with no kids. She seemed like type A personality, she dominated the entire conversation which was all fluff interests stuff. Right from the start it was basic Q&A.

Date sucked. I was basically sitting there having drinks with no room to escalate, flirt, and turn the date sexual. I had the realization 30 minutes in that it was going nowhere. Holding strong eye contact did nothing, she even asked why I'm staring at her. When I tried kino by rubbing her shoulder and back she flat out said please don't do that. As we're leaving and just for the hell of it with nothing to lose, I suggested going back to my place for another glass of wine and she quickly said no it's bedtime. Quick hug and done. Ouch.

My question to all you brothers out there. Have you ever had first dates where you can sense it's doomed from the beginning and is there any tips/advice on how to salvage it? A few times last night I tried to clear my head and run game but it just wasn't happening. I literally had nothing.

I usually have no problem seducing women and usually close easily within 1-3 dates. This one was painful though last night. I have 3 more dates with other women this weekend, so need to get this out of my system and so i'm not carrying a bad vibe.

Thoughts?

 

[MoreThanSmooth]

Out of interest, what was the layout of the place you took her to? Were you sat down? Close or far apart?

I find that if I'm sat with a girl in a place in which I can't naturally be a little flirty or close to her, it's pretty much doomed. I've taken a few girls to bars or restaurants where the seating is far apart and as you said, you just end up drinking and chatting to them like a friend. Eye contact is good to start with but after that it's only good if you're holding their hands or something too IMO.

Sometimes just chatting works but I find 80% of the time, if you can't be physically flirtatious without being awkward (reaching right across a table is just creepy) that really messes things up.

At the same time, if she's telling you she doesn't want touch contact, it's probably best to just write her off in the first place because perhaps the attraction wasn't there for some other reason (conversation topics perhaps).

 

[Toddz]

Yeah we barely communicated beforehand.

In the past, i've had success barely chatting a woman up before a date and also failure after spending a lot of time communicating beforehand. I ultimately believe both people know within the first few minutes whether there is attraction or not. I guess the bottom line is she was just not feeling it. Rejection sucks but just gotta soldier on.

 

[Roober]

I've had two dates like this, the first was early on, so I'll write it off as lack of experience. She was a spicy Latin party girl and I was a bit too upright. The date felt really good at times, then just awkward at others. Ended with an awkward hug.

The second the girl was a pain to get a date with and that should have been my first clue. Then we sat at a weird table where we were a ways apart so no kino. It was weird, she said she was tired but wanted to hit another bar but didn't want to get another drink. I ended the date and we texted just a bit afterwards. It fizzled out though.

I think people know pretty early on if there is chemistry, it's just a matter of making sure she gets it.

 

[guru1000]

Congrats. If you’re not failing, you’re stagnating.

I set up the date within a few messages and build absolutely zero rapport. I also double- and triple-book them to maximize my time.

My “game” honed through failing not succeeding, and adjusting accordingly.

In those periods where I bat 100% success, I purposefully seek to fail such as escalating without comfort, inviting her over with inadequate rapport, and saying the most extraordinary things. Ironically, the more I try to fail, the stronger the ensuing rapport develops.

I encourage you to fail a few more times.

One failure > One hundred successes

 

[Toddz]

Yeah all good points. I think i'm actually at a point in my life where I am ready to develop something long-term with a woman rather than pursuing one night stands and short term flings. Was talking to my brother earlier and he asked why i'm trying to sleep with these women right away like I have mostly done in the past. Any type of relationship that develops is purely physical based and a few months later usually ends.

He had a good point in saying that when I sleep with a woman on the first or second date, i'm subconsciously disqualifying her as long term partner. I do see his logic. When I have slept with a woman right after meeting her, in the back of my mind I have wondered how many other dudes has she slept with. And why is she giving it up so quick.

I don't know. I have another date tonight and 2 more tomorrow. We'll see how the weekend goes.

 

[guru1000]

Expecting to post a back to back Lay Report tomorrow.

Look forward to it.

Any type of relationship that develops is purely physical based and a few months later usually ends.

He had a good point in saying that when I sleep with a woman on the first or second date, i'm subconsciously disqualifying her as long term partner.

I disagree.

And I encourage you to examine this thinking further before you get duped into an LTR with an "angel," who is a great actress.

My favorite quote:

You should be free as a bird, flapping around, singing, full of joy with life. Women want to catch the bird and throw it in a cage (cage = commitment).

When birds try to fly into the cage, wouldn't you think something is wrong with that bird? After all, who wants a bird that WANTS to be in the cage? No, women want the birds that are FREE, WILD, and BEAUTIFUL. They want A GOOD CATCH. Good Catches do not fly into cages. Only wounded or needy birds do.

I never understood this notion of men chasing women for exclusivity, especially given the number of beautiful women. The irony is the greater you deter exclusivity, the greater the women tries to "cage" you.

 

[Toddz]

Yeah I've always had the mindset that if I see a woman that i'm attracted to, I'm going to try sleeping with her asap. Why wait?

And by no means am I trying to lock down a woman into a relationship. I'm just open to settling down if the right one comes along.

 

[skinnyguy]

The first red flag was that she’s a 40 year old woman on bumble.

You’re better off dating a 25 year old. They will be more sexual and more fun. This woman wants to know if you’re husband material before you can smash. I’m surprised she didn’t ask to see your tax returns.

 

[ohrein]

I never aimed to sleep with a woman on a first date. It's always a short meet up to qualify them in person. I imagine she was using it in the same way and you didn't meet her standards, whatever they are. Might even have been that you were pushing too fast for what she's looking for. From the sounds of it, you didn't enjoy her company either so just chalk it up as a bad date.

 

[marmel75]

Long story short. Was spinning plates last summer with a solid 4-5 girls in rotation then dropped them all this winter and basically went monk mode from Thanksgiving until now. 3 of the girls I was dating now have dudes, and 2 moved away so I can't even take them out to warm up. So my game is def a bit rusty.

Went on bumble and matched with a bunch of girls. I have 4 dates set up this weekend with the first being last night. I'm: 39 never married and no kids, I'm a good looking guy and established (own a home, car, etc,) She's 40 an HB8, smoking body, successful, travels the world for a living, divorced with no kids. She seemed like type A personality, she dominated the entire conversation which was all fluff interests stuff. Right from the start it was basic Q&A.

Date sucked. I was basically sitting there having drinks with no room to escalate, flirt, and turn the date sexual. I had the realization 30 minutes in that it was going nowhere. Holding strong eye contact did nothing, she even asked why I'm staring at her. When I tried kino by rubbing her shoulder and back she flat out said please don't do that. As we're leaving and just for the hell of it with nothing to lose, I suggested going back to my place for another glass of wine and she quickly said no it's bedtime. Quick hug and done. Ouch.

My question to all you brothers out there. Have you ever had first dates where you can sense it's doomed from the beginning and is there any tips/advice on how to salvage it? A few times last night I tried to clear my head and run game but it just wasn't happening. I literally had nothing.

I usually have no problem seducing women and usually close easily within 1-3 dates. This one was painful though last night. I have 3 more dates with other women this weekend, so need to get this out of my system and so i'm not carrying a bad vibe.

Thoughts?

There is no way to bang every woman you go out with. Some dates are just going to bomb no matter what. No way of knowing what it was with this particular woman. If it starts to become a regular thing then I'd probably start looking at the similarities or patterns and try to figure out what's going on.

Looking at a single instance in and of itself is mostly pointless tho. Just forget about her and move on.

As to her questioning why you were staring at her I would have said something like "Just trying to figure out why you have so many wrinkles at such a young age..." That would have drove her crazy for the next week...hahaha

 

[ubercat]

Haha I'm obviously the runt of the Don juans here because I've had plenty of first date fails. I remember one with some Asian chick I thought she was about an 8 from her Photoshopped photos and when she turned up she was really a 6. Anyway I started running all my routines really just for practice. After a few protests got a couple of drinks into her bit of ultra subtle Kino showing her how to play pool. I chose a place with couches so I sat her down beside me and bang she puts the handbag between us. I wasn't going to put up with that s*** from a 6. So I shook her hand said she was a great lady and I hope that her and the handbag would be very happy together and I walked.

I think she was expecting a lot more ass kissing.

If you're not feeling it I'd advocate walking early. Probably these days I'd also challenge them on their bad attitude.

 

[devilkingx2]

I'm: 39 never married and no kids, I'm a good looking guy and established (own a home, car, etc,) She's 40 an HB8, smoking body, successful, travels the world for a living, divorced with no kids. She seemed like type A personality, she dominated the entire conversation which was all fluff interests stuff. Right from the start it was basic Q&A.

Date sucked. I was basically sitting there having drinks with no room to escalate, flirt, and turn the date sexual. I had the realization 30 minutes in that it was going nowhere. Holding strong eye contact did nothing, she even asked why I'm staring at her. When I tried kino by rubbing her shoulder and back she flat out said please don't do that. As we're leaving and just for the hell of it with nothing to lose, I suggested going back to my place for another glass of wine and she quickly said no it's bedtime. Quick hug and done. Ouch.

This is why they say the man must lead, plenty of women will be boring and lame, but then blame you despite it entirely being their fault. Next time dodge or ignore the boring stuff and keep the conversation fun, if she won't play along go hit on the waitress and get the check early.

I know a girl that only wants to complain about how hard pre-med is in college and wouldn't talk about anything else if i didn't ignore her and change the subject whenever it comes up

Also it sounds like you went to dinner or something if it was hard to kino, flirt or escalate, try something fun (and cheaper/faster) next time instead

 

[devilkingx2]

I guess the bottom line is she was just not feeling it. Rejection sucks but just gotta soldier on.

I think all her dates are like that, why would a hot girl be on OLD if there was nothing at all wrong with her?

And why would she even agree to go out with you and show up only to decide instantly before giving you a chance that she wasn't interested?

Plenty of girls just dont have any personality

 

[devilkingx2]

He had a good point in saying that when I sleep with a woman on the first or second date, i'm subconsciously disqualifying her as long term partner. I do see his logic. When I have slept with a woman right after meeting her, in the back of my mind I have wondered how many other dudes has she slept with. And why is she giving it up so quick.

The problem with that logic is that it's inherently implying that the only reason girls bang you quickly is them being sluts

What if your game was excellent? What if she was very attracted to you? What if you simply knew/talked to her long enough before dating her that you already built 3 dates worth of rapport?

Sure you'll screen out all the slvts with that mindset, but the problem is that you'll mistake high interest or low maintenance/baggage girls for slvts too because they don't need a blood contract to fvck a guy they like

And you'll screen for manipulative or deceptive slvts that simply hide how loose their ass is by denying you anal, or lukewarm interest girls of all kinds

I wager the best way to screen a girl for an LTR is to only date girls you actually know in some way, so that you have an idea of who they are. Social circle game basically.

 

[Toddz]

*Update*

Last night met another girl for a first date and it went great. HB7, young 30's never married and no kids, is an MD and well established. Best thing of all and the biggest difference between date one, she has a personality. We were basically laughing and had natural conversation the whole night and she was giving off many indicators of interest (touching hair, holding eye contact, etc.) As we're leaving just gave her a simple kiss on the cheek and said goodnight (there were loads of people around). She texted me a half hour later thanking me for a wonderful time. Good first date.

I realized two things when I got home. First, women have to bring something to the table in the dating game (personality, a sense of humor, pleasantness). We are qualifying them just as much as they are qualifying us. It's not just about us leading things along and entertaining them. Initially yes, we do need to set things up, but once we get them out there, they need to give us something to establish a connection.

Second, you can pretty much tell whether a woman is ONS potential pretty early on. The way they dress, body language, how close they position themselves, how they react when you begin to kino them. This is important because if a chick is not DTF but you think she is, you might be sitting there trying to seduce her the whole night which comes off as being desperate. If you realize she's not DTF and ONS potential, then you can remain laid back and just have a chill evening building mystery.

Not sure if any of this makes sense? 2 more first dates today, so we'll see how these go. Interesting times

 

[Red Legg]

Congrats. If you’re not failing, you’re stagnating.

I set up the date within a few messages and build absolutely zero rapport. I also double- and triple-book them to maximize my time.

My “game” honed through failing not succeeding, and adjusting accordingly.

In those periods where I bat 100% success, I purposefully seek to fail such as escalating without comfort, inviting her over with inadequate rapport, and saying the most extraordinary things. Ironically, the more I try to fail, the stronger the ensuing rapport develops.

I encourage you to fail a few more times.

One failure > One hundred successes

I found your post humorous but very true as well.I am successful at OLD too because I don't give a damn and follow my own rules of texting ect..I say the most outlandish things sometimes with great success .I recently fvcked a woman who texted me " what are you looking for in a relationship" I shot back in less than a minute " I am looking for a woman that will swallow my cvm and not spit it out" the date was set immediately .I am 46 and retired and want for nothing and do what I want.I would say that failure has trained me very well and continues to do so.