Well, I went and saw the therapist today....

[Luke Skywalker]

It seems to me that you fit the category of an 'involunary celibate'. Well, at least there is always porn.

I'm planning to look at some porn myself the around the middle of this month. My parents are real c0ckblockers for me -- which is why I'm also planning to label myself 'involuntary celibate' too for this time period. Just going to throw in the towel, look at some porn and FL (fleshlight) myself. I cancelled a date because I had to help my dad out with something and my business looks like I wont have any time for girls -- yeah, I'm just to pull out some porn. I usually don't look at porn, but only reserve it for times that I really feel 'involuntary celibate'.

Normally I use porn as a reward to myself if I really put in an honest effort in to connect with a girl but didn't experience any luck since they aren't attracted to me or didn't take me on. It turns out this month the 'c0ckblocking' effect wins even over that -- but I tried, so I'll be looking at porn.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

Yeah,I'm familiar with that. Idk,I have had sex before,just not in a long time. Sometimes I wonder if it's the times. Like how women don't know,or don't want,to know they're place and follow they're role,with all the feminist b.s.

For instance: http://www.alternet.org/story/72591/

 

[oakraiderz2]

Personally, from the glimpse of your behavior on this site and the thoughts that seem to be flowing through your mind, you dont need meds. Just because youre feeling a little depressed doesnt mean you need to take meds. You NEED to change the way you perceive the world and events that have you to happen. Instead of viewing everything so negatively and seeing yourself as a failure, look at it from a positive perspective. You need to LEARN social skills and how to interact with people. If you take meds you may feel a little better, but how will you be able to better interact with people? I would recommend you try to change your schemas and scripts that navigate you through life. Depression maybe a chemical imbalace, but you can change the amount of dopamine being produced by doing activities that make you feel good. Maybe try to work out and get some hobbies to get some confidence.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

I am more than a little depressed I think. I mean,I very rarely feel good. As for activities,that's been the tough part,getting something to do. I mean, all that stuff,social skills,better interacting with people,feeling good,I feel all that when I am at work. I am out,I am doing something,not bored,etc. But once that ends,the negative feelings set in. It is more than the depression,it's a lack of confidence. But to me it always seemed to gain all that,you need to hit those high points,you need to make all those goals,those big,long term goals. That feeling of accomplishment,the I did it,I made it. I have succeeded,etc.

The one thing that has been bugging me the most,is the lack of attention,attraction,sex,etc from chicks. It's enought to make you angry most of the time.

I wanted to add this as well, this is from another post: "Well its pretty obvious what you must do. You identified your two major problems.

Your weight issue and your trying to hard to make conversation.

Start with your weight. The best way to lose weight is to get into a gym and start running and doing light weights. You can also start by cutting down your food portions. Don't try to go on any radical diet. Diets are hard to stick to. If you can't do any of those things then you need to learn to embrace your body.

The conversation part will come with practice. Start really simple and dont use stupid canned lines. Just talk normally like you would with anyone. Listen for ques that you can use to further the conversation and then expand on them and try to relate back.

There are a ton of examples around here so just use search function and start reading. Don't over analyze though and don't use canned stuff - try to have a natural conversation with them."

I mean more on the conversation part. I don't believe in using canned lines,but when it comes to conversation,sometimes I am silent,or don't carry it on that much. At work,because usually,I have a million things going on at once. So it feels like with women,I don't know what to say. And I have been in that unsure how and when to make a move territory. I have an analyzing problem thing.

 

[horaholic]

You cant seem to grasp the concept that it's not the 'lack of...' (sex, girls, friends, whatever) that makes you depressed. Your depression CAUSES all of those things that you lack. Get on meds, bro. I cant stress how much better you will feel. You cant cure depression, by getting laid. However, if you cure your depression, you will get laid MUCH easier. You fail to see this, and it saddens all of us. I pity you, cuz you dont realize the difference between the symptoms and the disease. You should start working out, too, but depression, keeps you from being motivated enough to work out.

Stick to the objective at hand, which is getting your mind straight, and handling your depression. THEN worry about whatever else.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Stick to the objective at hand, which is getting your mind straight, and handling your depression. THEN worry about whatever else.

I don't think he understands.

Caped: NO normal girl would want to be around a boring, negative, depressive, overweight, lazy guy who can't control himself. You need to change if you want a nice girl.

If you just want to get laid right now, borrow daddy's money and rent an escort.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

The one thing that has been bugging me the most,is the lack of attention,attraction,sex,etc from chicks. It's enought to make you angry most of the time.

See, people do not understand here that you are not showing you are depressed to any girls. I actually do not believe you are depressed, but this is just a reflection that you are having. You have enough social sence not to act depressed around women -- I think you are depressed in your private moments away from the girls as you are reflecting on why they are ignoring you. Why not affirm this to people on here. I'm sure you'd change your behaviour if it were as simple as being more positive around people already.

It's just that nobody is noticing you, and if they are noticing you it's always the wrong way. So far I have a bottle of pheromones in my basement somewhere I bought for $ 10 at a auto-trade show. I might just try it on and see what happens. After all, what do I have to lose?

I have long since explored the idea of buying into the pheromone concept as a way of generating attention, attraction from chicks. In fact, some pheromones (Instant Shine) when sprayed on, is reported to make people feel like they are on some sort of high and can counter-act any depression.

 

[KontrollerX]

I think therapists/psychiatrists what have you better serve the majority of their patients by exhausting talk therapy before bringing meds into the equation.

Now of course its a different story if someone is suffering from crippling life stopping anxiety or severe hallucinations etc as then meds are an absolute must to get the patient back into reality but yeah for people that are struggling with other issues and still managing to hold it together as best they can cognitive behavioral talk therapy or whatever they are doing now as far as talk therapy goes should be used intensively before throwing drugs at the problem.

Often times drugs can indeed help greatly and may be necessary but sometimes they only work as a crutch and don't remove the underlying reason for the problem.

So anyway good work going dude.

It was brave of you.

If you ever decide to start going the meds route find the one to take with the least amount of harmful side effects.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

"You cant seem to grasp the concept that it's not the 'lack of...' (sex, girls, friends, whatever) that makes you depressed. Your depression CAUSES all of those things that you lack. Get on meds, bro. I cant stress how much better you will feel. You cant cure depression, by getting laid. However, if you cure your depression, you will get laid MUCH easier. You fail to see this, and it saddens all of us. I pity you, cuz you dont realize the difference between the symptoms and the disease. You should start working out, too, but depression, keeps you from being motivated enough to work out. "

Well,I guess I was never able to do that,see the difference between symptoms and the disease.

"Caped: NO normal girl would want to be around a boring, negative, depressive, overweight, lazy guy who can't control himself. You need to change if you want a nice girl."

Whoa,Whoa,Whoa. I don't even think it's that bad. I am for the most part,not negative around people. It's not like I go around spilling all this to every person I know ok. Believe me,I know better.

I do control myself. Believe me,you know how many times a day I want to tell people to go and f off,but can't cause I will like get fired? It's not like I can't control my emotions in and around people.

Lazyness is/has been a problem. It's more like I'm nervous/anxious guy to make a move and do all the stuff,you know? Instead of being the positive,energized,witty,funny guy who the girls like,I feel more like shy guy in the corner guy. Maybe alot of this comes from unrealistic expectations,or I didn't go out and go to enough parties in high school or something,or tried making moves with girls back then or something.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Whoa,Whoa,Whoa. I don't even think it's that bad. I am for the most part,not negative around people. It's not like I go around spilling all this to every person I know ok. Believe me,I know better.

I do control myself. Believe me,you know how many times a day I want to tell people to go and f off,but can't cause I will like get fired? It's not like I can't control my emotions in and around people.

Self-control is more than that. Its also discipline, you lack this.

So you're not negative around people. You're not positive either. That's alright I guess.

Maybe alot of this comes from unrealistic expectations,or I didn't go out and go to enough parties in high school or something,or tried making moves with girls back then or something.

Do you see anyone here living in the past? Let it go, you can't go back. Things did or did not happen. Nothing can change that.

 

[Interceptor]

CC, your current experience is the result of all your previous decisons and actions based on those decisions.

At some point you decided to go into avoidance mode. And you began to acknowledge the negatives of who you are, rather than the positives.
So most of your life you have been carrying out a self fulfilling prophecy.
And so now, you realize that all that was a mistake, and you dont want the life youve created for yourself.

And now you want to go back and change that. But you cant.

You can only change in the present moment, the NOW.

You have to decide in a very clinical, sort of scientific manner WHAT it is you WANT.

Write out a list of what you want.
And what you dont want.

You have to go through this mechanism because your Personal Boundary is weak.
And you have very vague perceptions of your issues, especially on how to address them and get a desired result.


Once you have a clearer picture of what you want, and what you dont want, you will find solutions to these issues.

Unfortunately your low self esteem will lower your expectations and your confidence in your self, so you will probably talk yourself out of things, like you do most of the time.
So the first thing is to address that you are in a consistent self sabotage mode like this.
And you have to now give yourself a chance to achieve the results you want.

This means you must now acknowledge that your mind has been operating like this for many years and has led you to this path.
You no longer want this path, so you can no longer let that voice tell you what to do.
You can no longer trust it.

Because that voice is the one telling you that you cannot achieve the things that you want, that they are too far out for you and you will never reach them.


Dont be afraid to break new ground.
Let go of those old patterns.

Let go of the things that held you down. They were your identity for a while, but you can no longer bear the burden of living life like this.
So you must let it go.

The people you see whom you have no understanding of, HOW they DO IT, are the ones who dont listen and follow those disempowering, self sabotaging tendencies that YOU DO.

Its not their paradigm, their reality.
You cant understand HOW they do it, and they cant understand HOW YOU do it.
How do you intentionally disempower yourself?

Do you understand?

You must undergo a consciousness shift.

This is how you will create new behaviors.

And a new reality.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

"So you're not negative around people. You're not positive either. That's alright I guess." Well,I am more positive amongst people. Work is a good example. I generally feel better when I am there. But that is a temporary feeling. It's when I get out,and am bored when I feel this way the most.





"Do you see anyone here living in the past? Let it go, you can't go back. Things did or did not happen. Nothing can change that." That's what I have been struggling with,which is trying to break free of this,and be all right with things. But I am not,cause I feel I could be farther ahead.


"CC, your current experience is the result of all your previous decisons and actions based on those decisions.

At some point you decided to go into avoidance mode. And you began to acknowledge the negatives of who you are, rather than the positives.
So most of your life you have been carrying out a self fulfilling prophecy.
And so now, you realize that all that was a mistake, and you dont want the life youve created for yourself.

And now you want to go back and change that. But you cant.

You can only change in the present moment, the NOW.

You have to decide in a very clinical, sort of scientific manner WHAT it is you WANT.

Write out a list of what you want.
And what you dont want.

You have to go through this mechanism because your Personal Boundary is weak.
And you have very vague perceptions of your issues, especially on how to address them and get a desired result.


Once you have a clearer picture of what you want, and what you dont want, you will find solutions to these issues.

Unfortunately your low self esteem will lower your expectations and your confidence in your self, so you will probably talk yourself out of things, like you do most of the time.
So the first thing is to address that you are in a consistent self sabotage mode like this.
And you have to now give yourself a chance to achieve the results you want.

This means you must now acknowledge that your mind has been operating like this for many years and has led you to this path.
You no longer want this path, so you can no longer let that voice tell you what to do.
You can no longer trust it.

Because that voice is the one telling you that you cannot achieve the things that you want, that they are too far out for you and you will never reach them.


Dont be afraid to break new ground.
Let go of those old patterns.

Let go of the things that held you down. They were your identity for a while, but you can no longer bear the burden of living life like this.
So you must let it go.

"The people you see whom you have no understanding of, HOW they DO IT, are the ones who dont listen and follow those disempowering, self sabotaging tendencies that YOU DO.

Its not their paradigm, their reality.
You cant understand HOW they do it, and they cant understand HOW YOU do it.
How do you intentionally disempower yourself?"

How do I stop doing that? How when I am so used to it? I see what you are saying,self empowering,self esteem, not self sabotaging,etc.

Do you understand?

You must undergo a consciousness shift.

This is how you will create new behaviors.

And a new reality."

Exactly. It's all mental. How do I control it? How do I change my ways? What if I do need meds for that? I mean, I feel like I lack something. A passion,A Drive,etc. they say women can sense things like that,so is my "rythm" off? What I have been doing is trying to figure out why this happened,and how to undo it? Or maybe I am looking for a solution that isn't there.

 

[Interceptor]

CC, you quoted my entire post and you didnt understand a single thing......


I'm sorry I cant be of more help to you. Good luck on your journey.

 

[CapedCrusader08]

I understand it,I just have trouble applying it. It's hard for me to flick the switch.

 

[Mr_rogers]

I understand it,I just have trouble applying it. It's hard for me to flick the switch.

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, my friend. You need to unlearn your inappropriate thoughts and replace them with appropriate ones. See if you can find a doctor in your area that does CBT.

 

[bornyesterday]

You have to decide in a very clinical, sort of scientific manner WHAT it is you WANT.

Write out a list of what you want.
And what you dont want.

He cant. He's so far off his own personal and physical experience he's not able to tap into what he really wants. Like you said yourself his boundaries are ill defined. These boundaries need to be made stronger before he can distinguish between wanting and not wanting.

He is also a type that is unresponsive to advise and probably to therapy as well. His motivation is all over the place. And he is looking for it by asking questions ad infinitum, and not by listening to what is really happening.

 

[bornyesterday]

You should REALLY push for the meds. (obviously after evaluation and testing, of course) Depression is caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Talking to a therapist wont change that. Therapists are for helping people emotionally heal, like after emotional trauma. I dont think this is the case with you. You are in a downward spiral caused by depression. Your depression needs to be cured before you can begin to 'heal' yourself, and pull yourself out.

Speaking from experience, the therapists job should be to A: diagnose you, which should take about ten minutes, aside from testing you for being Bipolar.
B. Prescribe you meds. C. Monitor your progress, and adjust your med intake.

I have been on meds twice. Once, when I was going through a gnarly breakup, and I was losing my fvcking mind, and was scared I would become suicidal, so I saw a psychotherapist, and got on Zoloft. It was the best thing I've ever done, and it made me realize, I have always been sort of depressed.
(...)
I would get on meds again if I could afford it. You live with your parents. You can afford it. Dont worry about what people say about them. Try them for a month. You have nothing to lose.

Its a SUPER rare occurance when people get suicidal thoughts from meds, and its usually due to misdiagnosis, or incorrect med dosage, or abrupt stoppage of meds instead of weaning off of them.
(...)

You don't even understand the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist and yet you claim to know for sure its their job to put you on meds asap. The problem is just chemical with depression and so the solution must be aswell? Can you be even more deluded? the fact you've taken meds does not make you an expert. Stop talking about things you know nothing about.

I'm double quoting this one because it is so insane: "Speaking from experience, the therapists job should be to A: diagnose you, which should take about ten minutes, aside from testing you for being Bipolar.
B. Prescribe you meds. C. Monitor your progress, and adjust your med intake."
My mouth is falling open.

"Stick to the objective at hand, which is getting your mind straight, and handling your depression. THEN worry about whatever else."
Now that is solid advice. Your story about meds is obscuring your real message.

 

[bornyesterday]

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, my friend. You need to unlearn your inappropriate thoughts and replace them with appropriate ones. See if you can find a doctor in your area that does CBT.

I wouldnt work on his thoughts to much. He is incapable atm to change them. I think he needs to get out of his mind. Thinking and questioning everything is making him more confused by the day. he needs to focus on his physical and emotional experience.

I like the thought of a rebirth more though

 

[horaholic]

You don't even understand the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychotherapist and yet you claim to know for sure its their job to put you on meds asap. The problem is just chemical with depression and so the solution must be aswell? Can you be even more deluded? the fact you've taken meds does not make you an expert. Stop talking about things you know nothing about.

I'm double quoting this one because it is so insane: "Speaking from experience, the therapists job should be to A: diagnose you, which should take about ten minutes, aside from testing you for being Bipolar.
B. Prescribe you meds. C. Monitor your progress, and adjust your med intake."
My mouth is falling open.

"Stick to the objective at hand, which is getting your mind straight, and handling your depression. THEN worry about whatever else."
Now that is solid advice. Your story about meds is obscuring your real message.

First of all, I've been there, done that! How do you claim I dont understand the difference between a psychotherapist, and a psychiatrist? I've been on the brink of being suicidal, and the only thing that saved my ass is what Im suggesting to Caped. If you know so much, why arent you throwing down your advice to this guy? I was in the SAME position as him, and the steps I took, SAVED me from my personal hell, so you're damn right Im gonna tell him to do the same thing. If you got any better ideas, why dont you lay them down? He should at least TRY, cuz nothing else is working for him.

Why dont you lay down your knowledge, if you think Im so 'deluded', and I dont know what Im talking about? I've been living with chronic depression for 32 years. I can say with absolute certainty, that I AM AN EXPERT on the subject.

Maybe, Im a little biased on meds, but it's only because they worked so well on me, and other people I know. I used to be wholeheartedly against them, until they made me a better person. You really have no place insulting my decision or my recommendation, even if I am not qualified to do so. You arent offering anything at all, why are you talking? If you have something against meds, lets hear a valid point. I'll be the first to listen, and apologize, if you have anything.

Meds dont work for everybody, but they are as close to a 'magic pill' as you can get, and a magic pill is CC08's only hope. I have read close to 200 of his posts. It's beyond obvious that he is a MAJOR depressive.

Maybe I am deluded and insane for trying to help this guy.

 

[bornyesterday]

horaholic. I was a bit rude perhaps, that was wrong.
First I have to say I'm glad the meds worked on you and you are off depression. Depression ruins lives and medication can be a lifesaver, it's not anything to look down at. I have been there as well.

Being an expert on depression when it comes to experiencing it at first hand, that does not make you an expert on therapy or medication. Your story about the therapists' job is something you made up and proclaim to be the truth. I'm not telling more about it because I think you know this yourself.

About the point me not helping here. Well first off this is capedcrusader (CC) you are talking about. He has the thickest skull around and it has been proven a gazillion times he does not compute. It's the eight world wonder he is not banned here yet.
Second, I have tried to help, a couple of months ago. I think I even responded to the first thread he posted in. I immediately recognised in what kind of state he was in. That getting girls was not his real problem, but that he was depressed and confused among other things. Afaik I know I was the first to tell him to go to (talk)therapy. But after a few posts I quickly recognized this guy does not respond to decent advice or help so I immediately stopped giving him attention. You can look it up of you want.

I think you want to help, and getting him motivated for a therapist is the best you can do with this guy. But dont try to shove meds down his throat. Maybe it's a US thing to get medication for anything if its bothering you, but with CC that's not the way to start. It worked with you that does not mean it works the same for everybody. As medication has severe side-effects (although the newer meds are getting better) it is not something i would recommend to take for to long periods of time (there are exceptions). He needs guidance, he needs to talk, he needs to understand things. Medication is a temporary relief, it wont heal him.