Wake-Up Call

[Sammo]

Interesting,

I believe that this site is a bunch of men looking for 'an easy way out' to getting women. They forget that the funnest part is the challenge. They want one line they can say to a girl that will make them fall in love with them. Luckily, posts like this remind us: there is no easy way out, you get what you put in to this world.

As far as i'm concerned: you get what you put in, is the truest universal truth i have ever heard. I don't know why, but it's just true.

Putting in 100% effort in all the time will ensure things work out. When maximum effort is put in that is when brilliant people are produced. If you read this site to much, the only thing you will get good at is analysing girls and what they think, you WILL NOT get good at acting on these understandings.

 

[Duke]

Senor Fingers,

Allow me to play devil's advocate a bit...

This post seems to be saying "outer game has minimal impact; get your INNER GAME and LIFE handled first and then just flow from there."

However, your giant opus, "Weapons of Mass Seduction" emphasized OUTER game just as much as inner game... and dude, it made all the difference for me.

I know your views on seduction have changed since WMS, but it got me RESULTS.

I kid you not, the DAY after I read WMS, I started getting IOIs from girls for the first time in my life.

The very same thing you're railing against in this post... the semantics of body language, negs, CF, and push/pull, group theory, etc... helped me out a lot.

I think that the outer game tips and the new techniques are absolutely beneficial if the said reader of the tips goes out after reading them and APPLIES them an experiments with them.

Really TRY IT! Try leaning back more often. Try leading with the hips when you walk. Try to consciously stop yourself from seeking approval. You will be amazed.

Granted, you could TOTALLY ignore all the attraction-building techniques and phases of a seduction and JUST BE YOURSELF, but I'd only suggest taking up the philosophy of "doing nothing" AFTER you've become attractive to girls. Until that time, I see no harm in actively working on becoming more attractive through understanding what triggers attraction.

If you are a results-driven person, thening "being yourself" is not enough if "yourself" is still not attractive to girls. I see the outer game stuff as "building an attractive IMAGE for yourself." I know that deep down I'm a cool guy, and so are most people on these forums. The problem that they had at one point was that they didn't know how to project any sort of sex appeal or coolness to chicks or other guys with a cool image (probably).

I know that at times when I was up late at night reading ASF archives, I felt like I was losing my soul and that I was becoming someone monstrously fake. It was hard to look at!

But all I am doing is learning how to project an attractive image to girls. Learning how they like to be communicated to. Not all guys cultivate the ability to attract women throughout their lives. I think this is something that people in the community sometimes take for granted. Bill Gates has an awesome life and more money than he could handle. He probably has really great inner game. But his outer game is STILL ****ed up.

Our friend Bill wasn't socially conditioned to cultivate attractive behavior... and he never did. The result is that Bill, although and AMAZING PERSON, still has next to 0% sex appeal...if NOBODY KNEW Bill was a bazillionaire, I'm willing to bet that his sexual activity would rival a Tibetan monk's.

So I encourage guys to handle their sh!t, both inner and OUTER, get some good consistent results, and THEN take a break. Or if you feel like your mind is overloaded on information, take a break and go out and meet women and try out what you have been learning.

The only real detriment I see is if guys get a "student complex" and read night and day and NEVER GO OUT and interact with real, living breathing human beings with pvssies.

The guys who got good at this game got obsessed with it for better or worse. If you want results from ANYTHING, you have to put in dedication.

Whew

I enjoyed your post and I'm looking forward to your reply.

-Duke

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Originally posted by squirrels
The bad thing about this post is that so many people on this forum will be so busy praising Fingers that they will completely MISS what is being said here.

Not putting Fingers down, but any time "famous" users post here those worshippers simply say "bible", "bible". If the same post was written by another user, I doubt it´d be praised or asked to be part of the bible.

And to the ones saying bible material, give at least a reason for that!

 

[RedKnight04]

Not putting Fingers down, but any time "famous" users post here those worshippers simply say "bible", "bible". If the same post was written by another user, I doubt it´d be praised or asked to be part of the bible.

And to the ones saying bible material, give at least a reason for that!

I AGREE!!!!

About the post, I feel everyone is just plain out different. I know even when I continue reading the same material that I read to get me chicks the first time it doesn't effect my game badly. Sometimes you just need a boost and reading up on the same tips/bible/WMS over again gives you that. EVERYONE LEARNS DIFFERENTLY!! So when you say if your on sosuave so much reading material then it will effect your game or you will not get a boner, well then that is probably just you. I'm sorry but untill girls in general stop playing their little games well then I'll retire from mine. I'm also a terrible writer so I hope you see my POV.

 

[Jon E]

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
The better I get at this game, the less desire I have to analyze or post about it.

 

[Señor Fingers]

Originally posted by squirrels
The bad thing about this post is that so many people on this forum will be so busy praising Fingers that they will completely MISS what is being said here.

Interesting. What does this post say to you that you feel will be overlooked by everyone else?

Originally posted by RedKnight04
About the post, I feel everyone is just plain out different. I know even when I continue reading the same material that I read to get me chicks the first time it doesn't effect my game badly. Sometimes you just need a boost and reading up on the same tips/bible/WMS over again gives you that. EVERYONE LEARNS DIFFERENTLY!! So when you say if your on sosuave so much reading material then it will effect your game or you will not get a boner, well then that is probably just you. I'm sorry but untill girls in general stop playing their little games well then I'll retire from mine. I'm also a terrible writer so I hope you see my POV.

LOL!

Just to clarify, I am not saying SoSuave will destroy your boner. Just that a huge part of this game is the actual enjoyment of it, which can be compromised by an over-active mind. I do agree that we all learn differently, and thats a beautiful thing. All I can do is speak for myself in the hopes that my experiences resonate with some of you, so you can avoid certain mindtraps that will hinder your progress.

As far as girls and their games, play on player! Just remember that the point of the game is not really to "beat" them at it. It's all just play fighting that helps get us in an excited state, kinda like mental foreplay...the point is to enjoy yourselves and each other.

Originally posted by Duke
This post seems to be saying "outer game has minimal impact; get your INNER GAME and LIFE handled first and then just flow from there."

However, your giant opus, "Weapons of Mass Seduction" emphasized OUTER game just as much as inner game... and dude, it made all the difference for me.

I know your views on seduction have changed since WMS, but it got me RESULTS.

While it did include some nuggets on inner states, WMS was centered around my obsession with Outer Game. I have no regrets about this phase of learning I experienced, yet I felt it would be unfair to the reader not to show the other side of the coin. After writing volumes about all the facets of interaction, I feel it is equally important to FORGET all of this so that you can actually have a good time! (Instead of feeling like you are trying to ace an exam)

Originally posted by Duke
I kid you not, the DAY after I read WMS, I started getting IOIs from girls for the first time in my life.

Bull. You been getting them all your adult life. All I did was help make you aware of something that was already happening. Think about it.

Originally posted by Duke
The very same thing you're railing against in this post... the semantics of body language, negs, CF, and push/pull, group theory, etc... helped me out a lot.

I think that the outer game tips and the new techniques are absolutely beneficial if the said reader of the tips goes out after reading them and APPLIES them an experiments with them.

I agree to an extent. The main benefit the reader gets from this is actually trying SOMETHING! At least then he can see IRL what works and what doesn't.

I can tell you this much...now that I truly dont care about impressing girls, my body language corrects itself without me having to consciously think about it. I have reached a place where I am bored of your average pretty girl. I want them to work for me now...entertain me with some stories...show me what makes them special. This manifests itself in how I speak, sit and carry myself. I could write volumes on this subject, but I simply dont care that much now that I see how overestimated and even DETRIMENTAL the intellect can be in this game.

Originally posted by Duke
Granted, you could TOTALLY ignore all the attraction-building techniques and phases of a seduction and JUST BE YOURSELF, but I'd only suggest taking up the philosophy of "doing nothing" AFTER you've become attractive to girls. Until that time, I see no harm in actively working on becoming more attractive through understanding what triggers attraction.

The fundamental thing I find wrong with this viewpoint is the belief that attraction must be built. Girls are more like guys than we want to believe. They make up their minds about how sexy you are pretty quickly...all you have to do then, essentially is NOT FUKK UP! Dont you see? All those techniques are ways for you to simply AMPLIFY attraction. The spark has to be there in the first place if you want to fan it into a flame!

This is why I have always stressed the importance of feeling good about yourself (exercise, goal driven, etc) and having sharp social skills. Social proof is the fastest way to attract many sparks WITHOUT YOU EVEN TRYING. Having a lot of great things going on in your life makes you an interesting person and compliments your social skills. The biggest benefit I got from writing those massive posts was learning to CONVEY the value I knew I had all along.

Originally posted by Duke
The guys who got good at this game got obsessed with it for better or worse. If you want results from ANYTHING, you have to put in dedication.

Agree 100%

If your Outer Game is tempered by the work you do within, then you will go very far indeed! Just remember that you can imitate the actions of a sexy, confident man, but it will never compare to actually BECOMING that man!

Bottom Line: If you are not having the time of your life, then you are doing something wrong!

IMHO,

FINGZ

 

[Don Ronny]

It just hit me. You are leaving us aren't you? Just like a player..one day they love you the next day they toss you out like yesterday's newspaper. Well, FINE! go ahead and leave, you cold-hearted bastard!

*runs away and cries*

 

[Stringz]

Originally posted by Don Ronny:
It just hit me. You are leaving us aren't you? Just like a player..one day they love you the next day they toss you out like yesterday's newspaper. Well, FINE! go ahead and leave, you cold-hearted bastard!

I don't think Fingers will leave. He'll be back when he's old and grey writing from his experiences: "Weapons of Mass Seducing Grannies - for the widowers and pensioners"!

Stringz

 

[legolas]

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
A RUDE AWAKENING
It was "all systems go" and we were fooling around in bed when I realized the horror of horrors. I could not get an erection! My mind was so busy developing military strategies to get in her pants that when I finally got there I could not even enjoy myself!

Damn!! No wonder so many military people are gay

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Originally posted by Señor Fingers

I see a lot of old faces still posting here daily and wondering why progress seems so elusive. Well, DUH...probably because your main social outlet is an INTERNET FORUM! Everyone loves to complain about how none of the veterans post anymore, but no one really wants to face the reason behind it. These Master Don Juans no longer post simply because have bigger and better things to do! There is a very good chance you will find your game has skyrocketed when this place is no longer a priority for you. Don't get me wrong. I still think this forum rocks and it certainly has helped me tons. But a lot of the ideas here can be limiting and even misleading in their implications. With all the bootcamps, strategies and bibles, seduction begins to feel more like a Holy War than a natural process! While this is great for motivational purposes, the problem arises when women are placed squarely into the role of adversaries.

Agreed!

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
WOMEN ARE NOT THE ENEMY!

Seduction is not a struggle for supremacy. Your techniques are not like bullets or bombs aimed at a stationary target. This whole man/woman thing is more of a dance. A lot of us forget that women want sex as much as we do and they are excellent seducers. Part of your role in all this is helping them to seduce YOU. (Imagine that!) All they need from you is INITIATIVE. Just like dancing, you must lead them where you want them to be. The other day I picked up a girl with a compliment (gasp!) I told her she had the most beautiful eyes and she MELTED! No DHVs, no NEGs and no IOI's! You are not a performing monkey! All women want is a strong man who believes in himself and has the balls to take what he wants! Which raises another interesting paradox..[/B]

You complimented the girl because you wanted and not to impress or to gain her approval. That´s why it was powerful. Some guys here would be so worried about being an AFC that they´d prefer to "insult" a girl to giving a compliment.

 

[slipstreamer83]

I have to say that this posts great, and it´s the best I´ve read here lately with Squirrels´"Let´s talt about EGO."

But I have to make a point here. I have the impression that, in order to realize what Squirrels and Señor Fingers have realized, you have to go through a "disastrous" period at first, believing that techniques are important.

I think that the same applies to me. Very probably, these 2 posts wouldn´t be so good for me if I hadn´t believed so much in techniques for 1.5 years, a time in which I applied what I learn only to find that the techniques I read here don´t give me the results I want.

I was missing the point entirely. You can use the best techniques around, but if you still desire that woman so much while forgetting yourself, you are bound to fail.

 

[Iguana]

Originally posted by slipstreamer83
I have to say that this posts great, and it´s the best I´ve read here lately with Squirrels´"Let´s talt about EGO."

But I have to make a point here. I have the impression that, in order to realize what Squirrels and Señor Fingers have realized, you have to go through a "disastrous" period at first, believing that techniques are important.

I think that the same applies to me. Very probably, these 2 posts wouldn´t be so good for me if I hadn´t believed so much in techniques for 1.5 years, a time in which I applied what I learn only to find that the techniques I read here don´t give me the results I want.

I was missing the point entirely. You can use the best techniques around, but if you still desire that woman so much while forgetting yourself, you are bound to fail.

I agree 666% with absolutely everything you said here.

Iguana
Peace & Metal

 

[InsidiousNstinct]

I finally believe in my heart that any girl, no matter how gorgeous or sexy, would be extremely fortunate to lick my balls!

Now that's just special...

 

[Virtú]

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
Bottom Line: If you are not having the time of your life, then you are doing something wrong.

Are we really supposed to feel this way right off the bat?
How dare I question you ... but that sounds a little far-fetched to me. It takes time to get good at something and I know that I don't enjoy doing things I suck at ... unfortunately no matter how great the potential reward.

If you have any secrets for how to enjoy doing something difficult, painful, and frightening, then please share them with us all - I certainly don't want any of this to be a chore.

 

[xsonik]

i dont know who said it, i forget. but this site is a supplement. sort of like training wheels, once you get how to ride your bike, you dont really need em anymore. but, it sure helps does'nt it? what fingz is trying to emphasize is that you don't rely on your training wheels FOREVER. some day you have to "graduate" and just not use them anymore.

i know this kid who is pretty smart, and he goes to my college. he admitted to me that he sits around all the smart people for COMFORT, so he can cheat just incase he needs to. in his eyes, i am very smart. he copied my final answer for the quiz, and guess what? he ended up kicking himself in the ass because he had the right answer and he changed it. point : step out of your comfort zone somehow and learn not to rely so much on this site.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

Originally posted by Señor Fingers
An interesting thing I have noticed about seduction...

The better I get at this game, the less desire I have to analyze or post about it.

The opposite has also proven true. The more time I spend logically breaking the game down to a science, the less success I have. Even worse, it seems that as my understanding of these things grows, my enjoyment of them diminishes...

SOOOOO TRUE...i took a 2 week break sosuave, well i checked it a few times but did not post at all and my success was far greater just because of that, i was more confident and girls reacted better towards me, time for another brake any day now, maybe this will have to be a permananent slow down of my amount visiting here. who else finds this to be true?

and as for what xsonik said, thats right, if you cycled with your stabaliser wheels on once you dont need them they will only slow you down. and sosuave is that staibliser wheel

 

[Virtú]

When I was little, I argued brilliantly (or so I thought), that training wheels on my bike offered superior stability and ease of use, and therefore my parents' desire to remove them was ill-advised.
I believed my way was logical and best so fervently that actually put them back on all by myself several times.

I didn't understand their reasoning, nor did I have any concept of maturation or independence ... and there weren't any neighborhood kids to beat me up for being a wimpy baby.

Have you ever heard of a bigger pusssy than that?
God, I was such a F***ING LOSER!

Anyone who lurks and posts as much as they do should ask themselves if this is what they have.

 

[FM 3321]

When it's suggested to "take a break" from Sosuave.com, does it mean to take a break from listening and reading all seduction material for a while?

I get David DeAngelo's email in my inbox, I have David DeAngelo/Ross Jeffries CD's in my car and I have copies of WMS, DJ Bootcamp and parts of the Bible on my desk ready to read.

Maybe I'm not at that point where I should stop listening to success CD's in the car but I'm starting to feel the confusion from reading all these threads. Plus the fact that for some reason I'm still trying to get over my ex, I find myself subconsciously analyzing what I did wrong and wondering what the guy she left me for did right.

In other words I still feel like I'm starting out in learning this stuff but like other people said, I don't want to be on training wheels forever.

So the main question is, when you take a break, do you take a break from all seduction learning material? Thanks.

 

[Royal Elite]

There is only one point to his post, and that is too get your azz out there and do something. To many ppl in here analize theoritical situations too much.

You should be coming here and asking about events you have recently done. You will never get better until you have memories in your head in which to analize, not a whole bunch of what if's.

You can read every book on the planet about swimming but you wont get it until you get in the water.

DO SOMETHING (my motto for everything in LIFE)

 

[Maximus_Decimus]

Congratz Senor Fingers. It takes a certain amount of knowledge, experience, and understanding, until everything becomes natural and habitual, as if it were always a part of you.

Consider the subtle difference between 'having no form' and having 'no form'; the first is ignorance, the second is transcendence - Bruce Lee

Maximus_Decimus