Microphone Fiend
Master Don Juan
this is the post that got me interested, and it works too, check it out
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VSSM: Lesson 1: Mechanics Of Speed Seduction
- Thread starter Vronski
- Start date
When is Lesson 2 supposed to come out? I presume never. I'll give you SS fans a bit of a lesson here in this post.
Ok, so Vronski already went over weasel phrases, verbs, and embedded commands.
I'll go over tools that help you bring up themes/topics because the worst thing when learning SS is coming off or sounding weird!
Tools that help you bring up topics:
Sometimes, its tough to just bring up the subject about connections, love, attraction without coming off WEIRD! Hopefully, guys will learn something out of this. The best way to bring up topics is to use a combination of the following tools, not just one!
QUOTING PEOPLE, BOOKS, MOVIES, SEMINARS, ANIMALS, ANYTHING!:
The OLD SCHOOL way of bringing up a topic is to use quotes.
Examples:
"I read this in a book..."
"I had the most interesting discussion with a friend yesterday.."
"I was in a bar and I heard this guy say, 'Could you imagine me going down on you right now?' to this woman. "
(Just kidding about quoting animals by the way, although I've heard stories
)
SOFTENERS:
Softeners are old school too. But, their still good. Basically, with softeners, you are explaining WHY you're about to bring up a certain topic before she has a chance to ask WHY. I guess its like frame stealing in a way...sort of..
Examples:
"You know when I meet someone, I like figuring out what really moves them on a deep level, so if I were to ask you.."
"For the sake of this playful discussion we're having..what's it like when you.."
OFFERING A CHALLENGE/STRUCTURE AN OPPORTUNITY:
Option 1:
You pick something that MOST women want to be perceived as having (maturity, intelligence, independent, etc.)
Option 2:
While talking to her, you sense that she wants to be perceived as being a certain type of person (ex: a school teacher would like to be perceived as a person who loves children or a doctor would love to be perceived as a person who loves to help others). This is a lot more powerful than just blindly guessing (option 1).
"I'm not sure if you're adventurous enough to handle this..." (challenge)
"You seem smart enough to get this..." (opportunity, with her 'getting this' she has a chance to demonstrate that she's smart)
"I wonder if you're mature enough to handle this.." (you're challenging her to see if she's mature enough to 'handle this')
"This made sense to every helpful person I've ever met..." (you're offering her an opportunity to show you that she's also one of those 'helpful people' )
NEGATION
I highly recommend negation EARLY ON in the conversation if you're planning on launching patterns within 5 minutes of conversation! I think negation is awesome. Basically, if you sense that she doesn't believe in 'love at first sight' or 'connecting with someone' or 'feeling excited' then you should talk to a different girl! Just kidding..try using negation anyway. Even though she TELLS you that she doesn't believe in connections (for example), you can still talk about it and negate yourself from it by saying you don't believe in it either!
Example:
SSer: "Have you ever felt an incredible connection..."
Girl: "NOPE!"
SSer: "Yeah me neither! I think that whole falling in love at first sight is TOTAL BS! I was reading this article in a magazine about finding the right person (quote), and I thought, you know, its stupid. In fact, I'm not sure if you can understand what I'm about to tell you (challenge), but I think that when you meet someone for the first time you really shouldn't (negation) feel this incredible bond with someone, to the point where all the barriers just drop and melt away..but, some people say (quote) that when you feel this way about someone, you might even be able to imagine a time in the future...(time distortion)..etc etc."
Speed Seduction textbook definition of negation is basically using the following weasel phrases:
"You really shouldn't.."
"You can't..."
"You couldn't..."
But, I think it's MORE than that. Negation can also be talking about how much YOU don't believe in what you're about to say or how you think it absolutely makes no sense. The point is, you're trying to push this topic AWAY from you and pace her reality. So it looks like you're just talking about something that you both agree is BS. BUT, if you use correct tonality it can still have an effect on her and get her into state and that's the whole point of our communication with her!
SCOPE AMBIGUITY
Scope ambiguity is SOMEWHAT new so I don't know much about it. But, basically you use this statement:
"Speaking to you, as a person who..."
.."love to laugh", "..loves to learn new things", "..is open minded to new ideas." etc.
In theory, when you use scope ambiguity, her conscious mind does not know if you are referring to you or her, so it just says, "Both".
An example of how to use this:
"Listen, I'm not sure if this will make sense to you..but, speaking to you, as a person who's open minded and likes to learn new things.." then you can quote something and use negation and go into a pattern.
Linking Phrases
These are tools to help you CONTINUE a good thread not really take you to a good thread.
"Here's another thing.."
"It's kind of like when.."
"It's just like.."
Example of how to use it:
"(pretend you just finished the Incredible Connection Pattern)..you know, it's just like when you (then you transition into a Falling In Love Pattern)"
Final Thoughts on Speed Seduction
Beginners should stay away from Speed Seduction. It is really complex, but powerful.
Mystery Method, which relies on a lot of canned routines, IMHO is the beginner's game because it teaches you how to calibrate your routines into a real life conversation-as you use them more and more. After you are socially calibrated, then, you can try out SS.
SS is a nice tool to have available to you. But, I highly advise this to be not the only skill set you rely on. The patterns themselves are quite a foreign concept to most guys and if you try and recite them, you'll look incongruent. So, you have to kind of know what its like to feel a connection to someone, fall in love, etc. to be able to talk about them. OR, you can practice the canned patterns with the correct tonality. Tonality is VERY important! Dave Riker's Language and Conversation Course teaches everything I just posted here AND MORE!
SS takes a lot of practice. The patterns work best when they interrupt you and give you their insight on what it is like for them to feel whatever state you are describing. LET HER TALK! But, pay attention to the words that she emphasizes (usually they are adjectives, but not always, sometimes the words can be a noun, like "trust" or "respect") and also look at her body language as she goes into a different state. Mirror back her body language (which is her self anchor, theoretically), and also continue the pattern except you use whatever words she has emphasized (these are called her personal 'trance words' by the way).
Even if you don't recite a pattern perfectly, REMEMBER THIS, just the fact that you are talking to her about these things will have some effect on her.
Examples on how to mix Speed Seduction with other methods:
It's a good idea in Speed Seduction to FRACTIONATE. That means, you fluff talk after you just did an VERY DEEP pattern because you don't want to fry her circuits. For fractionation, I like to talk about something light/interesting or even use a Mystery Method A2 routine or some C&F.
You can mix MM with SS by subtle DHVs. For example, when you are using quotes (an SS tool) you can say that your ex-girlfriend attended this seminar (a MM tool) and she told you....whatever..also, you can STILL do a false time constraint and body rock (pretending that you're about to leave). A lot of people think Speed Seduction is direct game! But it's not really dependent on the opener, basically Speed Seduction is about capturing and leading her imagination. The ultimate match is using Speed Seduction during the "comfort building stage" of the M3 model.
Cold reading is THE BEST attraction tool when using SS. Vince Kelvin does this a lot! Check out his videos on youtube. Think about it, handwriting analysis is easy to riff patterns about, the cube is too, handshake analysis is easy to riff patterns about also! Cold reading + SS is like a match made in heaven.
Chick crack + SS is also a nice match. Think about it, chick crack is defined as topics that deal with love, relationships, the differences in how guys and girls are..that sort of thing. An example of a chick crack opinion opener: "How do I tell someone that I'm not interested in her, without hurting her feelings?" She talks, then you can EASILY bring up the theme of relationships using IN10SE's Red Rose Pattern. Then, voila..you're in a conversation that is really Speed Seduction oriented.
Qualifying (Mystery Method-A3) and offering challenges (Speed Seduction) both sub communicate the same thing. In SS, you're more like testing her to see if she is a certain way. In MM, qualifying can be like, if she can cook or what else she's got going for her other than her looks. But, in the end, they both sub communicate almost, if not, exactly the same message. You can STILL qualify MM style when you use SS.
VIDEOS OF PEOPLE USING SS
Are unfortunately hard to come by because Speed Seduction is old school. But, "Magical Connections" by Orion and Kamal is the best one. And, Vince Kelvin's videos on youtube are also pretty good.
Ok, so Vronski already went over weasel phrases, verbs, and embedded commands.
I'll go over tools that help you bring up themes/topics because the worst thing when learning SS is coming off or sounding weird!
Tools that help you bring up topics:
Sometimes, its tough to just bring up the subject about connections, love, attraction without coming off WEIRD! Hopefully, guys will learn something out of this. The best way to bring up topics is to use a combination of the following tools, not just one!
QUOTING PEOPLE, BOOKS, MOVIES, SEMINARS, ANIMALS, ANYTHING!:
The OLD SCHOOL way of bringing up a topic is to use quotes.
Examples:
"I read this in a book..."
"I had the most interesting discussion with a friend yesterday.."
"I was in a bar and I heard this guy say, 'Could you imagine me going down on you right now?' to this woman. "
(Just kidding about quoting animals by the way, although I've heard stories
)SOFTENERS:
Softeners are old school too. But, their still good. Basically, with softeners, you are explaining WHY you're about to bring up a certain topic before she has a chance to ask WHY. I guess its like frame stealing in a way...sort of..
Examples:
"You know when I meet someone, I like figuring out what really moves them on a deep level, so if I were to ask you.."
"For the sake of this playful discussion we're having..what's it like when you.."
OFFERING A CHALLENGE/STRUCTURE AN OPPORTUNITY:
Option 1:
You pick something that MOST women want to be perceived as having (maturity, intelligence, independent, etc.)
Option 2:
While talking to her, you sense that she wants to be perceived as being a certain type of person (ex: a school teacher would like to be perceived as a person who loves children or a doctor would love to be perceived as a person who loves to help others). This is a lot more powerful than just blindly guessing (option 1).
"I'm not sure if you're adventurous enough to handle this..." (challenge)
"You seem smart enough to get this..." (opportunity, with her 'getting this' she has a chance to demonstrate that she's smart)
"I wonder if you're mature enough to handle this.." (you're challenging her to see if she's mature enough to 'handle this')
"This made sense to every helpful person I've ever met..." (you're offering her an opportunity to show you that she's also one of those 'helpful people' )
NEGATION
I highly recommend negation EARLY ON in the conversation if you're planning on launching patterns within 5 minutes of conversation! I think negation is awesome. Basically, if you sense that she doesn't believe in 'love at first sight' or 'connecting with someone' or 'feeling excited' then you should talk to a different girl! Just kidding..try using negation anyway. Even though she TELLS you that she doesn't believe in connections (for example), you can still talk about it and negate yourself from it by saying you don't believe in it either!
Example:
SSer: "Have you ever felt an incredible connection..."
Girl: "NOPE!"
SSer: "Yeah me neither! I think that whole falling in love at first sight is TOTAL BS! I was reading this article in a magazine about finding the right person (quote), and I thought, you know, its stupid. In fact, I'm not sure if you can understand what I'm about to tell you (challenge), but I think that when you meet someone for the first time you really shouldn't (negation) feel this incredible bond with someone, to the point where all the barriers just drop and melt away..but, some people say (quote) that when you feel this way about someone, you might even be able to imagine a time in the future...(time distortion)..etc etc."
Speed Seduction textbook definition of negation is basically using the following weasel phrases:
"You really shouldn't.."
"You can't..."
"You couldn't..."
But, I think it's MORE than that. Negation can also be talking about how much YOU don't believe in what you're about to say or how you think it absolutely makes no sense. The point is, you're trying to push this topic AWAY from you and pace her reality. So it looks like you're just talking about something that you both agree is BS. BUT, if you use correct tonality it can still have an effect on her and get her into state and that's the whole point of our communication with her!
SCOPE AMBIGUITY
Scope ambiguity is SOMEWHAT new so I don't know much about it. But, basically you use this statement:
"Speaking to you, as a person who..."
.."love to laugh", "..loves to learn new things", "..is open minded to new ideas." etc.
In theory, when you use scope ambiguity, her conscious mind does not know if you are referring to you or her, so it just says, "Both".
An example of how to use this:
"Listen, I'm not sure if this will make sense to you..but, speaking to you, as a person who's open minded and likes to learn new things.." then you can quote something and use negation and go into a pattern.
Linking Phrases
These are tools to help you CONTINUE a good thread not really take you to a good thread.
"Here's another thing.."
"It's kind of like when.."
"It's just like.."
Example of how to use it:
"(pretend you just finished the Incredible Connection Pattern)..you know, it's just like when you (then you transition into a Falling In Love Pattern)"
Final Thoughts on Speed Seduction
Beginners should stay away from Speed Seduction. It is really complex, but powerful.
Mystery Method, which relies on a lot of canned routines, IMHO is the beginner's game because it teaches you how to calibrate your routines into a real life conversation-as you use them more and more. After you are socially calibrated, then, you can try out SS.
SS is a nice tool to have available to you. But, I highly advise this to be not the only skill set you rely on. The patterns themselves are quite a foreign concept to most guys and if you try and recite them, you'll look incongruent. So, you have to kind of know what its like to feel a connection to someone, fall in love, etc. to be able to talk about them. OR, you can practice the canned patterns with the correct tonality. Tonality is VERY important! Dave Riker's Language and Conversation Course teaches everything I just posted here AND MORE!
SS takes a lot of practice. The patterns work best when they interrupt you and give you their insight on what it is like for them to feel whatever state you are describing. LET HER TALK! But, pay attention to the words that she emphasizes (usually they are adjectives, but not always, sometimes the words can be a noun, like "trust" or "respect") and also look at her body language as she goes into a different state. Mirror back her body language (which is her self anchor, theoretically), and also continue the pattern except you use whatever words she has emphasized (these are called her personal 'trance words' by the way).
Even if you don't recite a pattern perfectly, REMEMBER THIS, just the fact that you are talking to her about these things will have some effect on her.
Examples on how to mix Speed Seduction with other methods:
It's a good idea in Speed Seduction to FRACTIONATE. That means, you fluff talk after you just did an VERY DEEP pattern because you don't want to fry her circuits. For fractionation, I like to talk about something light/interesting or even use a Mystery Method A2 routine or some C&F.
You can mix MM with SS by subtle DHVs. For example, when you are using quotes (an SS tool) you can say that your ex-girlfriend attended this seminar (a MM tool) and she told you....whatever..also, you can STILL do a false time constraint and body rock (pretending that you're about to leave). A lot of people think Speed Seduction is direct game! But it's not really dependent on the opener, basically Speed Seduction is about capturing and leading her imagination. The ultimate match is using Speed Seduction during the "comfort building stage" of the M3 model.
Cold reading is THE BEST attraction tool when using SS. Vince Kelvin does this a lot! Check out his videos on youtube. Think about it, handwriting analysis is easy to riff patterns about, the cube is too, handshake analysis is easy to riff patterns about also! Cold reading + SS is like a match made in heaven.
Chick crack + SS is also a nice match. Think about it, chick crack is defined as topics that deal with love, relationships, the differences in how guys and girls are..that sort of thing. An example of a chick crack opinion opener: "How do I tell someone that I'm not interested in her, without hurting her feelings?" She talks, then you can EASILY bring up the theme of relationships using IN10SE's Red Rose Pattern. Then, voila..you're in a conversation that is really Speed Seduction oriented.
Qualifying (Mystery Method-A3) and offering challenges (Speed Seduction) both sub communicate the same thing. In SS, you're more like testing her to see if she is a certain way. In MM, qualifying can be like, if she can cook or what else she's got going for her other than her looks. But, in the end, they both sub communicate almost, if not, exactly the same message. You can STILL qualify MM style when you use SS.
VIDEOS OF PEOPLE USING SS
Are unfortunately hard to come by because Speed Seduction is old school. But, "Magical Connections" by Orion and Kamal is the best one. And, Vince Kelvin's videos on youtube are also pretty good.
Ryan
Master Don Juan
great thread, have to bump this.
Would love to practice my SS skills if I can find more time.
Would love to practice my SS skills if I can find more time.
