Very frustrating evening

[OnTheWayUp]

Hi all,

This is just a bit of a vent of my negative feelings after being flaked on again this evening. I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

I....

-am at one of the best universities in the world
-have a history of leadership in sport
-have a history of leadership in politics/ debating
-play in 5 different bands, one of which I have set up and run completely independently in my own time
-am an extremely competent and profitable poker player
-have a lot of friends in various social circles (music, sport, politics, housemates etc etc)
-am always the life and soul of a party, always lead the conversation, doing the approaching rather than the other way round
-do stand up comedy
-am frequently called "bold" or "a player" by girls
-am not afraid to give my opinion on anything; this opinion is very rarely sitting on the fence
-have absolutely no issues with touching girls
-go out 2-3 times a week to house parties/ clubs, where I'm getting 1-2 numbers a week
-have got over my insipid "nice guy"/ oneitis past with the help of PUA material on here and elsewhere, and embrace an abundance mentality
-am frequently complemented on my dress sense (by guys and girls)
-am best friends with a massive player (regularly pulls when we go out, claims he's slept with 25+ girls)


.... and yet I'm a virgin. I am an extremely well rounded person, with strengths and interests in a vast variety of areas. And yet all I seem to be able to get is the occasional drunk make out with girls who are either cheating on their bfs or single AWs who flake on me when it comes to dating (either before the first date or before any subsequent date).

I'm very happy with every single aspect of my life other than women. I'm confident, outspoken (someone called me "mind blowingly honest" recently), and highly successful. In a few years' time, I will be making a lot of money. Most of the time I'm really too busy to worry/care about rejection, but this just keeps happening; I'm at my wits' end. There must be something I'm doing fundamentally wrong.

I'm open to any advice. Help.

 

[PectoralisMajor]

do you confirm the date on the day? or just show up?

from the sounds of your post, you overthink, and are a bit full of yourself?

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Thanks for the comments, PM. In response to your points:

I don't confirm the date on the day of the date itself. What normally happens is that we agree 2-3 days in advance on an activity and a meeting point. Very occasionally, I plan things with girls a week or so in advance; in the latter case, I confirm a couple of days in advance. I feel saying something like "you still on for this evening?" on the day of the date is a bit needy. Feel free to disagree.

I fully admit that I overthink. I'd like to believe that the amount of time I spend thinking is a vehicle of change/ personal growth, rather than something that holds me back or "wastes my time." Until a year ago, I barely gave girls a second thought- I was too busy with work, sport and music. Since beginning to think about pick up/ becoming more attractive, my success rate has skyrocketed. I've gone from never having made out to having at least one date a week in the space of a few months.

If your point about me being a bit full of myself was meant in reference to the bullet points, I tried to remain as objective as possible when writing the OP. The bullet points are statements of fact which represent where my life is at the moment.

I guess what frustrates me is the fact that this site always goes on about "self-improvement" and "value." I've had a life and been driven to be the best possible me for years and years. I've always wanted to be the best as long as I can remember. And yet I see less driven guys with lesser prospects than me/ fewer hobbies/ worse bodies/ less funny humour picking up girls.

 

[Mike32ct]

Hi all,

This is just a bit of a vent of my negative feelings after being flaked on again this evening. I really don't understand what I'm doing wrong.

I....

-am at one of the best universities in the world
-have a history of leadership in sport
-have a history of leadership in politics/ debating
-play in 5 different bands, one of which I have set up and run completely independently in my own time
-am an extremely competent and profitable poker player
-have a lot of friends in various social circles (music, sport, politics, housemates etc etc)
-am always the life and soul of a party, always lead the conversation, doing the approaching rather than the other way round
-do stand up comedy
-am frequently called "bold" or "a player" by girls
-am not afraid to give my opinion on anything; this opinion is very rarely sitting on the fence
-have absolutely no issues with touching girls
-go out 2-3 times a week to house parties/ clubs, where I'm getting 1-2 numbers a week
-have got over my insipid "nice guy"/ oneitis past with the help of PUA material on here and elsewhere, and embrace an abundance mentality
-am frequently complemented on my dress sense (by guys and girls)
-am best friends with a massive player (regularly pulls when we go out, claims he's slept with 25+ girls)


.... and yet I'm a virgin. I am an extremely well rounded person, with strengths and interests in a vast variety of areas. And yet all I seem to be able to get is the occasional drunk make out with girls who are either cheating on their bfs or single AWs who flake on me when it comes to dating (either before the first date or before any subsequent date).

I'm very happy with every single aspect of my life other than women. I'm confident, outspoken (someone called me "mind blowingly honest" recently), and highly successful. In a few years' time, I will be making a lot of money. Most of the time I'm really too busy to worry/care about rejection, but this just keeps happening; I'm at my wits' end. There must be something I'm doing fundamentally wrong.

I'm open to any advice. Help.

I read your "profile." You have some great things going for you. However, I bolded one of the items.

I see you have a best friend that pulls frequently. I take it he is either very good looking and/or has great game. Do you think he may be "stealing your thunder" so to speak? I don't mean on purpose. I mean inadvertantly.

Sometimes if you wing with a guy who is considerably better looking or has better game or is more experienced with the ladies, you can be "drowned out" so to speak. Even though you have some great things going for you, the ladies might be drawn to him initially and not give you enough of a chance to convey your value. Do you find that you do better sarging alone or with a different wingman?

Anyway, I could be totally off. It's just food for thought that I'm throwing out there.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Interesting theory, Mike, hadn't considered that one before.

My friend also got into pick up late, but for about the last 5 years (I've known him for 2) he's been working on his game and it works wonders. His powers of conversation are incredible. Going out together is really fun- although he has been known to unintentionally **** block me once or twice.

That said, I think it's a bit unfair to blame my lack of success with girls on my friend, especially as I do sometimes go out with other groups of friends and my results (numbers, make outs, but no more) are almost exactly the same. It's as bad as the guy who recently posted the thread about giving up on girls completely saying "well, I'm perfect, there must be something wrong in the girls' taste in men."

I have never been one to believe in self-delusion. I know there's something that I personally am doing wrong. It's probably something so small that I've barely though about it before- but I need to get better.

 

[Let's Get Real]

Could be your energy...you sound a little desperate with women. They can tell those kinds of things in your body language(how you stand, how fast you move, how many times you blink) and just your vibe overall.

Sounds like you're trying too hard...a lot of that stuff you do is cool but what really matters is how you interact with them when you're with them and how they are going to relate to you when you're not.

I was famous when I was younger for skateboarding and had the opportunity to hook up with a lot of girls. I was just good at skateboarding tho and my friend was an alpha male that would always get the girl no matter how good I was at skating.

 

[runner83]

Impressive personal resume.

I'm not saying that its not important to be successful in life, because it is....to YOU!

But when with a girl what matters to her is whether she is attracted to you, nothing else.

Most girls end up being with an average dude with not much going for him who occasionally slaps her up BUT SHE IS ATTRACTED TO...

....as opposed to an "ultra successful guy" (like yourself...?) who she is not attracted to.

So work out how to spark the attraction and keep it going.

 

[Fuglydude]

Hey dude,

Sounds like you're a good guy if you are indeed how you describe yourself to be. However, you're missing one key ingredient: You're not SEXUAL enough with girls.

I'm probably a lot older than you and have been there done that so to speak. I was a stripper/male entertainer for 3.5 years from age 24 to around age 28. Stripping taught me that in order to be successful you have to be sexual with women. Females like sex A LOT! If you're not sexual, you won't get anywhere. Oh, and as for your "player" friend... not sure how old you guys are, but 25+ lays really isn't a lot... Some of my friends (also dancers) have slept with 200+, 300+, even more...

Remember to be sexual with women dude. This is probably the only thing you're lacking.

 

[mustfirstregister]

Who says having all those Qualities will get you laid?

 

[synergy1]

in addition to what fugly said, the key to getting women's attention is to be a fun guy. The reason everyone here advocates so hard to pursue interests and master them is that its ultimately fulfilling, and you will exude this happiness when you hang with your friends on weekends. Sure you might have a list of credentials a mile long, but if you are desperate and not enjoying life, that'll kill your chances.

As for your buddy who pulls all the time, stick with it and learn what he does. I was in your situation before where my friends would pull and I was on the sidelines. Watch, emulate, learn, and succeed. It'll take some time, but if you have diligence , you'll get similar results. Closure regarding my friends, we all pull roughly the same now...it varies depending on mostly luck. The playing field is equal and we have all have had adulation for one anothers game. The weekend before I was getting good vibes from a smoke that my friend thought was hot, but this past weekend my boys pulled and I got nothing. Ebbs and flows. Learn to love it.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Could be your energy...you sound a little desperate with women.

Sounds like you're trying too hard.

Both of these things are undoubtedly true. I despise not being good at something, and in the past, I have thought about things obsessively for a while and then mastered them (poker, aspects of sports I play, subjects in school I was less good at, general social skills like going to clubs and having fun etc etc). Does it get me down that I have skills -and, perhaps more significantly, have fun- in so many other areas but not with women? I'd be lying if I said it didn't.

The trick is to get better without caring... This mindset is so counterintuitive that I find it very challenging. I'll get there though- no matter what it takes.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Remember to be sexual with women dude. This is probably the only thing you're lacking.

In this past, I found this very difficult. As I said in the OP, I used to be a nice guy who thought you had to be friends with women first before getting them into bed. These days, thanks to SS and observation of guys who get girls all the time, I'm not so naive.

So...

-I crack sexual jokes
-I kino girls as much as I can/ feel is appropriate
-I've been working on my body language to make it look more masculine
-Same for my voice/ intonation


Is there something I should be doing which I'm not?

 

[OnTheWayUp]

in addition to what fugly said, the key to getting women's attention is to be a fun guy. Sure you might have a list of credentials a mile long, but if you are desperate and not enjoying life, that'll kill your chances.

As for your buddy who pulls all the time, stick with it and learn what he does.

Good post. What I find confusing is that I find pleasure in pretty much everything I do: work, poker, sport, music, comedy, going out with my mates etc. To say I'm not enjoying life generally is simply untrue.

However, to say I'm frustrated and made "desperate," to use your term, by my lack of success with women is absolutely true. I laugh now when I think of my previous high standards with girls. She had to look a certain way, share interests, click in conversation etc etc. In short, I used to be looking for "THE ONE." These days, I'd settle for losing the v-card to any girl that fulfils my basic criteria for physical attraction. So much for society's expectations that your first time has to be "special."

I watch my friend pulling most weeks (and have done so since I started going clubbing properly in September), and we regularly chat about pulling strategies. He doesn't know I'm a virgin- on the contrary, he's implemented some of the techniques which I understand *in theory* that I've told him about from SS (especially push/pull and LMR strategies) and loves them! Sadly, if I told him the truth, I think our friendship would fall apart.

 

[The Assistant]

you might not wanna hear this, but maybe the way you look just doesn't give any girls that needed initial attraction.....this is usually the case with guys who are so successful in other aspects of their life, but are virgins.

You need to hit the gym, and hit it HARD

 

[loveshogun]

If you're all of those things, just be yourself.

There's such a thing as being "too aware" of yourself. Just relax, go with the flow. It'll happen.

Out of curiosity, what University is this?

 

[OnTheWayUp]

Good point about the gym, TA. I've never been scrawny (I play a lot of sport), but I've never been a "gym guy" either. I'm going to have some spare time in late Feb/March after I've finished a project for uni where I can go to the gym more often. Currently I'm averaging around a session a week in addition to my other sports, which I can and will improve. My player friend, however, is significantly smaller and scrawnier than me, and it doesn't seem to affect him. What I'm doing wrong is something deeper than not hitting the gym enough, I think.

@LH: I'm at Oxford University. I admit I find "relaxing and going with the flow" very hard- I've always been very highly strung and self-aware. I'll try to relax during social occasions as much as possible and get back to you. It's very difficult to be chilled and thinking about how to get girls/ witty comebacks at the same time.

Something I've thought of that almost certainly isn't helping me hugely is the fact that-

I don't drink and never will (a friend of mine died from alcohol poisoning when I was a teenager).

I only really started going clubbing seriously 6 months ago. Prior to that I had gone a couple of times, but found it pretty boring. I don't like dancing (these days I do it, but I'm happier talking to people) and I prefer playing music than listening to it. I'm working on the dancing side of things: when the next round of beginners' dance groups start in April, I plan on being there.

I am going to keep going with this until it happens, but it still amazes me that I am one of the most driven and committed to self-improvement people I know (attractive, you would have thought?), and still find it hard to get any. What more do girls want, lol.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

double post

 

[synergy1]

However, to say I'm frustrated and made "desperate," to use your term, by my lack of success with women is absolutely true. I laugh now when I think of my previous high standards with girls. She had to look a certain way, share interests, click in conversation etc etc. In short, I used to be looking for "THE ONE." These days, I'd settle for losing the v-card to any girl that fulfils my basic criteria for physical attraction. So much for society's expectations that your first time has to be "special."

I watch my friend pulling most weeks (and have done so since I started going clubbing properly in September), and we regularly chat about pulling strategies. He doesn't know I'm a virgin- on the contrary, he's implemented some of the techniques which I understand *in theory* that I've told him about from SS (especially push/pull and LMR strategies) and loves them! Sadly, if I told him the truth, I think our friendship would fall apart.

For what it was worth, my first was later than normal and anything but special. To date she was the worst looking by far. At least you know that an extremely idealistic mentality is a fools gambit. Its not to say eventually be selective once you know what your doing, but for now just get your feet wet.

I don't tell any of my friends about how awful my past was. Even if I did, many wouldn't even believe it. Just keep practicing, its all you can do. Eventually you'll find something that works for you , and it'll be slightly different from your friends. That success will be interesting to them.

On successfully pulling, for all the success you see, there are plenty of invisible failures behind them - ergo plate theory which is strongly advocated here. What distinguishes myself and friends is that we don't get discouraged and keep going on. My most recent success required a lot of persuasion to get her out one night. A guy who is a virgin would have given up, but I didn't. I told her meet me out at X or i'll cya around. The goal was to hit on women, and she happened to show up. The rest is history.

once you realize how BS the whole game is, women will be more of a joke and it'll be more fun, and get laid more.

 

[Fuglydude]

In this past, I found this very difficult. As I said in the OP, I used to be a nice guy who thought you had to be friends with women first before getting them into bed. These days, thanks to SS and observation of guys who get girls all the time, I'm not so naive.

So...

-I crack sexual jokes
-I kino girls as much as I can/ feel is appropriate
-I've been working on my body language to make it look more masculine
-Same for my voice/ intonation


Is there something I should be doing which I'm not?

Assistant gave you a great point on the gym. I neglected to mention it, as I thought you'd be pretty jacked up as a varsity athlete. If you're in the top 5-10% of the male population from a physical aesthetic standpoint, the world is a very different place. When I was younger and more of an attention ***** I'd wear tank tops out in the summer. Pretty much every female (and lotsa guys for that matter) I passed or was on the sidewalk would stare at me because I was in good shape. I'm not even gonna get into the female attention I got during shows. If you wanna see pics check out my competition log in the health and fitness forum. Even now my fiance always bugs me to wear tank tops when we're out in the summer, I don't like that kinda attention anymore in my old age, so I don't wear tank tops unless its really warm.

As far stuff you should be doing. The sexual jokes, innuendo type stuff is fun! It conveys that you're a fun, positive guy, something that synergy touched on earlier. Kino is good, but you gotta be able to isolate and escalate. Not sure what your living situation is like. But having a place that you have to yourself privately, is great for isolating/escalating.

THe combination of being jacked, fun and sexual is deadly. Before I met my fiance, it got to the point where I could almost put money on my ability to have my wiener in a girls holes the first or second date. However, I would only go for girls that I knew were interested in me, as this made things much more efficient!

So remember, get jacked, isolate, escalate, and make sure you go out with girls that you are attracted to. You may have to lower your standards somewhat to lose your v-card fast, but remember you're not marrying these girls, simply using them for sex (and they're using you too!).

Hope this helps.

 

[OnTheWayUp]

The last two posts are awesome pieces of advice.

Synergy- I'm 10 years younger than you, but it sounds as if you went through pretty much exactly the same thing as me at my age (nearly 21). I LOVE the idea of giving a girl an ultimatum, I'm going to try this tomorrow afternoon with the girl who flaked on me on Monday. We'll see what happens: if she says no/ gets offended, well I'll chalk it up as a learning experience and move on to the next girl.

Fugly- your post adds to my motivation to get ripped. I imagine the top 5% of guys in terms of physique turn the tables on girls who are used to having more suitors than the males who pursue them. How awesome would that be?

So, to sum up this thread, I am going to try and do the following:

- chill out and enjoy myself when I go out
-think less
-not get ****-blocked by my player friend(s)
-not let rejection get me down (doesn't happen often anymore, but Monday was baaaad)
-improve my top 30% physique to a top 5%
-be sexual
-watch and learn from my friends who pull regularly
-get better/ more confident at dancing


Thanks for your help people, much appreciated. This forum really is a fantastic resource.