Unsure how to proceed on

[LDD]

Hi guys, need some advice here on an issue that is happening in my work place.

People always say office romance isn't encouraged, but the girl in question below and me will be moving to different companies very soon (different industries).

I'm putting the problem in point form below so it's easier to read:


The background
0) Me, I'm an introvert type of guy, but is known for being super direct and the "no-secrets-to-hide" type of guy.
I do tease girls from time to time and some flirting / touching, so I'm not those ultra-nerdy-scared-of-girls type of introverts.

1) Girl is a super-extrovert strong-personality alpha female, talkative. Single. No boyfriends. Close to a HB8.

2) At the beginning of this year all the way till July or so, Girl says she likes me, and asks me out for movies etc, in front of other people since our office hangs out as a group.
She even asked me to go on a holiday trip with her. I said no, and always treated her quite coldly and kept a distance.

3) Due to above, many times, she keeps saying I'm ignoring her. Over time, her feelings faded. From my observation of her behavior, it looks like only 5 - 10% left.

4) The rest of the folks always try to bring us together, but in vain, cos' I had no interest.

5) Recently, I realized she has a very gentle and sweet side, and I was slowly attracted. My view of her changed and now I've a deep liking for her.
(all along, I've been attracted to alpha females)


The Problem

6) Enters Guy A. A normal-level extrovert. Has a girlfriend. Rich. Tall. Average looks.

7) Guy A entered the company a week ago and sits next to Girl. They talk non-stop from morning to knock-off. Approx 30+% of it is work, the rest is personal stuff.
Guy A is the one initiating pretty much all the conversations that is non-work-related.
He doesn't seem to be the funny type, but is super good at keeping up conversations and continuing it non-stop. Mostly talk about more serious stuff like family, hobbies, life and non-love stuff so far.
(because it's non-cubicle environment, we can more or less hear it)


The Challenge
8) Now, Girl is leaving the company in 2+ weeks time. And all these while to the end of the 2+ weeks, Girl and Guy A will be really close to each other, and I've seen cases where 2 people working very closely together end up falling for each other.

9) Within these 2+ weeks, I wanna let Girl know about my feelings and ask her out.

10) I intend to ask her out with sentences like "So, are you and Guy A an item? If not, do you mind if I ask you out...."

11) I intend to say all these to her during the next 2+ weeks if there's an opportunity so it won't freak her out (ie: when everyone is laughing happily and the heat and rapport is big)

12) Another thing that's demoralizing is that since the rest knows I've no interest in Girl A, now they're teasing Guy A and Girl about being a couple (due to their constant talking non-stop whole day).
Used to be about teasing me and Girl in the past.


The Question
So, if you guys can analyze the situation, what are my chances now? My only advantage is that Girl used to like me some months back, but now faced with this potential threat, I'm not so sure anymore.

Here's a list of match-ups:

My Pros: Girl used to like me and now still has some lingering feelings for me but it's fading into oblivion. Honest, super direct, reliable, sweet (lol).
My Cons: Not that good at keeping up conversations. Not as rich, tall or loud-spoken as Guy A. Mild-mannered. Soft. Always like to keep work and personal stuff separate thus I very very rarely talk to Girl during work. The only time is during lunch or so.

Guy A Pros: Ultra legendary in keeping up conversations. The ultimate talking machine. Seems to be a very clean type of guy, doesn't talk dirty, not the bad boy type, rather serious and outwardly confident and vibrant.
Guy A Cons: Has a girlfriend, so that might restrict him (or maybe not?). Seems unwilling to share some parts of his past when we ask him about it. Still not super sure about him as he's only here for 1 week.

I'm worried that within the next 2 weeks, Guy A MAY or MAY NOT up the game and Girl will slowly fall for Guy A since he keeps talking to her about personal stuff and she might get drawn into his world and get emotionally invested in it. And when a woman is emotionally invested, it's screwed for me right? In any case, Girl A's interest in Guy A seems to be slowly increasing.

Slow but bit by bit.

Pls share your views and insight. What should I do? Tks!
LDD

 

[speed dawg]

Well my first thought is that you won't match up too well with this chick. Heavy introverts don't normally go well with heavy extroverts. I'm a very introverted guy myself and I don't really want to do the work to keep up with an extrovert. Maybe you can make it work, but you have to really be sure of yourself and not give a f*ck.

I honestly think you missed the boat on this one. Consider it the right call, because you don't need to mess around at work or anything indirectly linked to work. Just leave it alone.

Now, as to what you can learn here? Take her up on her offer next time, and make her pay for everything. Be in a good mood, up-beat, funny, etc. Call the shots. But I'm telling you now, dealing with a flirty extroverted hot girl is a tough thing to do.

 

[VladPatton]

You goofed this up big time, a long time ago. You think this chick is hot, she asks you out, you refuse, and you wanna get her now at this point? Too late, too late. You should of jumped at the chance, taken the reins and bagged her shortly after. You two would of been together now (hopefully) and you wouldn't of needed to over-think your actions.

Leave it alone, the chance is missed, her interest is lost, and you'll seriously fück things up at work by professing your interest in her way, way, after things turned ice cold. Use this as a massive learning experience to never pass on a chance with a chick you think is cool. Even if it was a 2 date thing with nothing in the end, you could of at least said honestly that you tried, gave it a shot, and it didn't work out. Now, it's an over-analyzing nightmare.

Sorry, man, better luck with the next one.

 

[Die Hard]

Stop being a pvssy, stop being so outcome dependent, stop putting her on a pedestal...

Oh, she might fall for the new guy! Help, the world is about to be destroyed! Man, she's just a piece of meat and that gentle/sweet side you "discovered" means jack sh!t... That's what every guy thinks about a girl when they just hook up but a few weeks/months later she turns out to be a manipulative wh0re...

Look, she wanted you, right? So give her what she wants! Isolate her, apply kino, escalate, then kiss her. The rest is history.
Let that talkative dude have conversations with her all he wants. He's just being an emotional tampon to her, girls talk and talk and talk to EACHOTHER all day long. That's what GIRLS do! So he's just being like one of her girlfriends, what a LOSER!

Real men take charge and take ACTION. You think endless conversation is gonna make her hormones rush? You think it's gonna get her pvssy wet? You think it's gonna make her head spin with desire? Fvck that, man... Being physical, being sexual, being playful and flirty, being confident and taking charge, those things WILL!

When she feels your strong arms around her and your passionate kiss on her lips, she's gonna close her eyes and dream and be in la-la-land, surrendering herself to the moment, surrendering herself to you...
The fact that you continuously kept her at distance in the past, will not enter her mind at that moment, nor will that pvssy azz loser new guy. You are in control, you lead her actions, she follows. Just like leading a mouse through a maze by putting pieces of cheese at the pathways you want it to walk into. Your actions lead her where you want her to be.

It's all about desire. It's definitely already there with her, she has shown it in the past. You just take that desire, you build it up higher through flirting and kino'ing and when you've built it up high enough, you capitalize on it by kissing her.

Stop doubting and what-if-ing. Just do it.

 

[disgustipated]

I think you're asking us how to salvage this. First, ****ingg forget about this other dude....like he don't exist....maybe even use him as a prop. Thee only way I can imagine salvaging this is if you are direct, bold and assertive. Do NOT ASK. You were going to ask her if its okay to even ask her out? Seriously Bro, that's two too many opportunities for her to say no. You tell her you're going out. Do it in front of him to really drive your point home or be bold. Something like, be in mud conversation with both....turn to Guy and say, isn't Jill awesome? Hell say sure or something, u agree...then that's why this Friday is going to be our first date at blah blah blah and I'm not taking no for an answer.

Shell say either, ummm okaaaay I guess its a date it awkwardly try to weasel out...which u don't let her. If she persists and makes an excuse u use guy a as a witness that she has to reschedule or something so your exit isn't too awkward. Be prepared for possible scenarios.

As an introvert I prefer to date extroverts....eternal sunshine of the spotless mind is the dynamic I kinda have. It helps me. If I date someone as inward as myself, we will do a whole lot of nothing....I won't be challenged, therefore I won't grow. An extrovert gets me out there living life....makes me try to lead an already driven person which FORCES me to grow. I need that. I also need downtime to myself to recharge my energy stores after a particularly demanding bout of being social and or outgoing.

 

[disgustipated]

Damn and die hards advice is great too. The times where I've just taken a kiss, not asked...all went over very smooth and all girls recounted those moments of being so hot....I just loved how u went for it, didn't care where we were, what we were doing, you just took it. Don't ask.

 

[LDD]

Tks guys, esp to DieHard and disgustipated!

Regarding kino, is it a good idea to walk up to her and start pounding her back softly as a casual massage in a playful manner?
Because this girl massaged my back several times in the past and I thought I could take advantage of this fact and give her one back?

Then, from the massage, I get her attention, and her reaction will most likely be surprise and giggle (which she always does).
So, from here, I just tell her "I'm going out with you next week blah blah blah". Good idea?

I read this article which says to ask girls out only on a high note (ie: when you two are laughing or enjoying the talk and the heat is on), as compared to just awkwardly asking her out randomly in the middle of silence.

Another reason I believe she got attracted to me in the first place was due to my apathetic attitude, cos' almost all the guys in the office were nice to her and flirted / being funny to her, while I was the only one who avoided her. So I guess this may have caused the desire in her previously, though I took it a bit too far

Lastly, when asking her out, is it better to do it in front of a group (our mutual friends) or is it better with a 1-to-1 talk?

Tks!
LDD

@disgustipated: Same here. I'm attracted to extroverts, and introverts (males and females) always turn me off although I'm a bit of one myself, cos' it's really hard to open the other introvert up. Sometimes I would try really hard but they just clam up unlike extroverts who can challenge your views with controversial ideas etc.

 

[disgustipated]

Honestly I would try to isolate her, I think Die hards suggestion is gold. I think it would work best with your personality. My suggestion only if you can't isolate her. Don't let a group of people be the reason you don't do it.

If u do go the direct approach by telling her, watch that verbage....don't make plans Friday, WE'RE going out sounds better than I'M going out with you or however you worded it. Don't let her give her you any **** about waiting so long, u ignore that stuff and plow right through. Already made reservations, you can't bail....lol even if its at a bowling alley...gives you a chance to be playful.

Good luck brother.

 

[LDD]

LOL, ok tks! Will try to kino and be playful first to get her into the mood over the period of next week, then when she's high, I'll tell her the stuff.

Will update again.

 

[backbreaker]

First of all where do you work? good lord that's a childish work environment.


Secondly, Vlad is right. you have noc hance. I mean, YOU are at fault her. This is not the new rich guys fault, it's not the chicks fault for liking the guy it's your fault for not going on a date with a chick you were attracted to what the **** where you thinking?

then when she moved on, like a person is supposed to do, you want to figure out how to get her back.


This post is kinda like the matrix lol. You just showed the power of moving on. She moved on from you and found someone else and now you are pissy. Why can't guys do this more often?

That spark, once it's gone it's gone. and it's gone.

 

[LDD]

Hi guys!

Ok, some updates and need some advice related to the new situation.

1) I informed (not ask) her today to go out with me during this weekend.
She said she has plans on and can't cancel with her friends since they already made plans 3 weeks ago.
However, she told me she can make it on 24 December (long gap is due to her overseas trip during the coming 3 weeks, which has been verified by me lol)

So I guess she's at least somewhat interested.

The problem: Because she's the super-outgoing type, she says that usually she and her friends will make plans weeks in advance, so meaning that in future, if I ask her out, do I also need to make plans with her weeks in advance?
Is this playing into her hands? Letting her control the game?
The thing is, she really is busy going out most of the time LOL


2) During the period of time from now to 24 Dec, should I text her now and then so that the trail won't go cold?
It's almost 1 month, and I wonder if by the time she's back, the feelings would have "cooled". Or should I just not text at all and wait till she returns?


3) We plan to go out for a movie + meal. Since we won't be talking during the movie, most of the talk will be during the meal.

Should I ask her about her overseas trip and what she did there? Cos' if she does, she'll just ratter on and on and I don't really have a chance to let her know more bout me.
In fact, I know a lot more bout her then vice versa.
And I'm sure her friends etc will all be asking her bout the trip, so I don't wanna become yet another one.

My problem is that I tend to be too much of a listener, but not sure how to get around this.
Also, I tend to use C+F and neg-hits way too much, and always ends up not connecting deeper to girls beyond the surface flirting.


4) After the 1st date, how long do you guys usually wait before asking her out for the 2nd date? Also, should the guy be asking the girl out all the time?
If I consecutively take the initiative and ask her out for 3 dates, should I wait for her to take the initiative to ask me out for the 4th date? If she doesn't, I just next her?

Tks!


*STRANGE OBSERVATION*: Guy A is a total PITA. Still keeps talking non-stop and currently, Girl is sticking to him more and more.
Their body language (walking far apart, no kino, no flirting etc...) suggests that they aren't that close on a romantic level, but wherever Girl goes, Guy A sticks to her like her shadow. And occasionally now, where Guy A goes, Girl follows him.
I classify him as her male BFF, but even then, the amount of time he sticks to her just makes it extreme even for a male BFF.

I guess he's using the traditional approach of talking a lot to a girl and getting her emotionally invested (even though there's no PUA tactics or flirting or making her panties wet), and that's why Girl follows him etc.?

Now do I realized that one doesn't need to do any flirting or PUA stuff to get chicks.....you just need to talk a lot, stick to a girl 24/7 aggressively and she somehow will start to like you.

Thankfully Girl is leaving company soon, so it should help me somewhat in a sense.

In my whole life, I've seen ladies men and guys who are great with chicks, but those guys were the flirty playful type / bad boys; never saw a guy who behaved like Guy A before. This type of guy is every man's worst nightmare ever.

 

[disgustipated]

You asked, she postponed or whatever. Believe me if you had come back from an overseas trip you would remember if someone you were highly interested in asked you out prior, and you would iniate with that person when you got back.

You did what you were supposed to. It's on her not only to remember when she gets back but also bring it up. Play it super cool now. You will get your answer. Inaction on her part is low interest.

 

[LDD]

LOL tks, not sure if I phrase it correctly, but she hasn't gone for the overseas trip yet, but will be going next week, and we'll be going out after she has returned.
So you're saying that I should just sit back, wait for her to return, and wait for her to bring up the date, as a test to see if she's interested?

Anyway, we'll see how this pans out.

 

[nostalgic60]

Looks like it has worked out despite the fact that you don't know what you're doing.

Between now and the 24th, I suggest you read up on dating tips on CH or otherwise and see if any apply to your situation. Also talk to other women to keep your desperation/obsession levels low.

You can't be asking questions about whether to have kino or massage her back. You have to develop an instinct on how to act and react to any situation.

What do you want? If all goes well, do you want a girlfriend or an ONS? That would determine how you need to behave.

Don't text her. Wait for her to text and she probably will. You weren't a verbose life of the party, and yet she still wanted you.

God knows why she liked you. If it's the apathy that interested her, it's not going to be good when she finds out how insecure and clueless you actually are.

And you only like her better now that the jovial Greater Beta showed up. Getting together because of preselection and not because of a deeper connection - not the best basis of a relationship.

 

[Die Hard]

If I were you, I'd forget about this girl right now. You're setting yourself up for a big disappointment here.

Chances that she'll flake on the 24th are high and you are gonna be veeeeery disappointed after waiting for it over three weeks...

 

[disgustipated]

Missed the part about the 24th. Just hold her to it, don't allow her to back out. I don't like the date you have planned at all it seems more something that an established couple would do. I'm in the camp that favors action dates. I've had more lays off of bowling dates than anything else. Got a whole system for that.

Forget talking in a movie, so you're ****ed there. In fact I'd watch the movie first. Might make for good conversation at dinner anyway. It's just gonna be hard to transistion from being silent for two hours to anything other than her saying good night. So all your work has to be done at dinner, if you're out for the first night lay. If not, then you need to focus on gaming for 2nd-3rd date lay....and that's more aabout escalating gradually each date. And logistics when its time.

Hold her to that ****ing date though.

 

[LDD]

@ Nostalgic:By CH, I believe you mean ****y Humour?
I'm not sure how the relationship will turn out in future, but it'll be a great learning lesson either way.
Since she's a super-alpha female (girls with d***s), I wonder if girls like that actually prefer guys who are on the softer less-alpha side LOL
I've seen couples like that married together (opposites attract). Not sure if it's true though.

My intention with her is for a relationship thing, not ONS. If I wanted ONS, I would have tried to cold-approach or find prostitutes instead LOL


@Die Hard: I took your previous post advice up above in this thread and it's great! Could you elaborate on why you think she might flake on 24 Dec?
Maybe you saw something coming that I didn't since you're much more experienced than me.
Me and her even did a pinky-promise hook so that the other party won't chicken out LOL
Not sure if that's even useful though. I think since she's from my social circle and not from a cold-approach, maybe she'll flake less.


@Disgustipated: Could you provide some ideas of action dates?
I know movies are shunned by PUAs since it offers no chance to interact, but those stuff like ice skating and roller-blading has also been said to be bad for 1st dates due to overwhelming logistics etc....

Tks guys!
LDD

 

[disgustipated]

Bowling is my go to. I taught myself how to throw a hook ball years ago...had no idea so many girls would like this on first dates. I will show them I'm decent, but make the first game close. 2nd game ill ratchet up the **** talking lol and let them beat me...they fall for it a lot. Have that smirk like you could've let them win though. This creates plenty of opportunities for you to rematch her....in anything. It's perfect to play off if, u can kino her big time in these playful flirty competitive moods. Why I like bowling so much is logistics as well. I usually transistion to the lounge or bar after 2nd game....imo 3 games too.long...2 is perfect.....then get revenge match in pool....get decent enough to show off. More drinks. Depending on escalation you can try for the move back to whosever place or try one more venue change for the close.

It's a proven formula for me mainly because it plays to my strengths and limits my weaknesses.

 

[LDD]

Bowling is my go to. I taught myself how to throw a hook ball years ago...had no idea so many girls would like this on first dates. I will show them I'm decent, but make the first game close. 2nd game ill ratchet up the **** talking lol and let them beat me...they fall for it a lot. Have that smirk like you could've let them win though. This creates plenty of opportunities for you to rematch her....in anything. It's perfect to play off if, u can kino her big time in these playful flirty competitive moods. Why I like bowling so much is logistics as well. I usually transistion to the lounge or bar after 2nd game....imo 3 games too.long...2 is perfect.....then get revenge match in pool....get decent enough to show off. More drinks. Depending on escalation you can try for the move back to whosever place or try one more venue change for the close.

It's a proven formula for me mainly because it plays to my strengths and limits my weaknesses.

LOL sounds fun, tks! I'm tempted! What I'm curious about, though,:

1) If both of us never bowled before, and we can't even make a single skittle go down, will that still be fun? If after 2 hrs and we still suck like hell, the girl may get turned off?

2) Do you guys have time to talk and interact during bowling? LOL Seems a bit too action-based if it's just bowling npon-stop

3) Bowling won't get the girl sweaty or worse still, drenched in sweat? The girl hates sweating lol
I wonder if there's such a thing as light bowling (like maybe using very light balls or something)

 

[disgustipated]

It's not that serious bud! My high game ever is i think 220 something, and I was perfectly buzzed. Mostly im in the 120-180 range because I don't take it seriously. Every ball you or her throw is an opportunity to bust her balls, or especially if she picks up a spare or strike to kino....start with high fives, maybe pull your hand back so she misses...**** with her like when you were kids. Plus you get to check her figure out constantly. Annnd, if you do well she'll want to high five, touch, kino you.

If you both suck...flip it. Make a game out of who can suck the worst...if you or her manage NOT to pick up a good frame, start high fiving and kino escalating on those occasions. Then transistion to pool or darts if there's a nearby lounge/bar by saying something like...ok time for something I know for sure I'm gonna kick your ass at....come with me!! Don't ask, lead. She puts up resistance you take her by the hand and start walking with her, say TRUST ME...but have a sneaky look on your face.

Dude you gotta lighten up, this is supposed to be fun. I used to dread first dates until I started setting them up for activities I enjoy rather than **** that bored me....like a chick flick, a sit down meal, silly **** like that.

You should be able to have a first date where if the chick is a complete bore or ***** that YOU can still have a good time by yourself. Most girls will want to be a part of that. I bring up bowling because that's MY thing, well one of them...I could go out by myself or with friend(s) and completely enjoy some bowling/drinks/pool what have you. What's your thing?