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This is the # 1 trait a women should have

catsmeow2

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@Pandora I agree with you, with certain caveats however don't think I want to touch this one.

Except to say, I do have a voice in my marriage that my hubs respects, however I DO defer to him on most things due to the amount of respect I have for him.

I think that's key. Being a man a woman can truly respect and in a way look up to.

Before my hubs, I had never found that.

I'd love to hear @BeExcellent thoughts, given she earns more than her man (I think) and has a strong voice here, and in her relationship as well I assume.
 

catsmeow2

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I'd argue the problem is most men have become very poor leaders. Nobody wants to follow someone over a cliff.
That's the caveat I didn't want to get into.

As I said, my husband is actually the first man (other than my dad) that I want to follow, who I respect enough to want to follow and submit to.
 

BackInTheGame78

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That's the caveat I didn't want to get into.

As I said, my husband is actually the first man (other than my dad) that I want to follow, who I respect enough to want to follow and submit to.
I'll say it because it's the truth. Men want to have women follow them? Then be worthy of being followed and you'll never have an issue. Too many guys are not but expect it anyways. Not the way it works.

Also simply having your sh!t together in terms of job, income, car, house, etc does NOT make you a good leader. Those have nothing to do with leadership ability.
 

Pandora

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That's the caveat I didn't want to get into.

As I said, my husband is actually the first man (other than my dad) that I want to follow, who I respect enough to want to follow and submit to.
Yes i agree. I actually acknowledged this in the last line of the orignal post. Many men are losers. Dont follow those guys.

There are still MANY men that are good men. These are the men you should follow. These men should have been vetted by your father, older brothers and maybe even your grand mother. Once they like him then you must follow him.

Follow doesnt mean slavery. It means he determines the direction of the relationship. This is akin to the relationship between a captain and a leutienant.
 

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Pandora

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@Pandora

Except to say, I do have a voice in my marriage that my hubs respects, however I DO defer to him on most things due to the amount of respect I have for him.

I think that's key. Being a man a woman can truly respect and in a way look up to.

Before my hubs, I had never found that.
You will keep having a good life if you keep respecting him like this. Its just that simple. If he is a good righteous man then he will not guide you wrong.

You are also an extraordinary woman in order to accept his guidance. Most modern women are too stuck in their ego to accept a good mans guidance. This is why they will continue to suffer.
 

Pierce.Manhammer

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Great post. We've butted heads many times, but this is GOLD. And needed for many here including me.

I was born a poor black man. (steve martin skit of old - for those of you who are younger than the skit).

My cousin sent me videos of this couple. This couple cemented my suspicions on what we should look for in a woman. This is the only trait that really matters. This character trait is submission. Submission being defined as following male leadership 100%. Not being submissive is the main reason why relationships fail.
The couple also says that the goal of every woman is to have an alpha who does not hold them accountable. They want a desirable man that they dont have to listen to. I have found this to be extremely accurate. Wayward women do not want to be corrected. They are like spoiled children who hate discipline. If you try to enforce discipline they will fight back. Simultaneously, they are destroying their lives.
As one poster on SS stated " a woman without instruction is headed for destruction". These creatures are fundamentally self destructive.
It is extremely rare to find a woman that is capable of being under a mans leadership. They all think they know as much as you.

*** One caveat is that you must first make yourself worthy of being followed. But if she is having sex with you that should already be a given. Only a dysfunctional woman will have sex with a man that she does not deem worthy of following. This is the norm these days****
 

Pandora

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I recently saw a podcast /documentary about pimps. Women brought them all the money oldschool stuff.

Pimping gets more attention nowedays. The general thought was that these women are the absolute cesspool of slvts, but more men are interested to the why's and what's about pimping. The mindset behind pimping,
and the way the pump moves. Pimping seems extreme , but 30 years ago if you would say 20: of men will fck 80 % of women people would tell you you are a mad man.

So on one side you have the Good guy who would tell a woman to" just be a good woman" willing to do everything for her if she would just be loyal . Meanwhile this guy keeps hearing that some Pookie Rayrays fvcking his favourite woman for free , or even worse; she supports him!

The discrepancy between a good man's intentions and vision, and what happens in reality is something that most men will never fully understand. How can a woman go and fck dudes and bring ALL the money back to him? How can a Chad take away a young womans best years and give her ( at first sight) nothing in return, while some decent blokes offer her the world?

I am going kinda off topic, but its interesting to see people look back at all the pimp stuff they used to laugh at, and now try to basically study it.
Yeh I have thought about this many times.

A female is a winner when she finds a strong worthy male to support her and have his kids. A female is a loser when this dynamic is reversed. These loser women cant keep a high value man. If they could they would.

These women disrespect these men. They are addicted to them because of looks but these are high conflict relationships. She will often call him a loser, a deadbeat, trash etc.
Often these men live with these women and get kicked out when the women are angry.

These women are the most dysfunctional beings ever. Pimps are preying on Cluster B drug addicts. I used to admire them but there is nothing to admire. These women are not difficult to pimp out. They are a mess. They like abuse. Pimps could never do that to a woman that comes from a strong nuclear family. Its preying on the weak. I have dated girls that used to be sex workers. They are a mess.

Basically the women who get fukked for free and support the men have serious self esteem issues. They did not come from a house with a good father figure. Its the female equivalent of being an AFC simp beta.
 
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Pandora

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Great post. We've butted heads many times, but this is GOLD. And needed for many here including me.

I was born a poor black man. (steve martin skit of old - for those of you who are younger than the skit).
Haha thanks bro. Should I check out that Steve Martin skit? What is it called?
 

Pandora

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I want to add that most women hardly encounter men that demand submission. Most of the men these days do not hold women accountable. Most men dont even hold themselves accountable.

Women mostly date betas ( Caleb Jones is right). When they encounter a man that has standards they dont know how to handle him. They are like " wait, he is not letting me go to the club with my male friends? This is new".

A womans wet dream is a rich pretty boy that lets her hang and bang with other men.
 

Pierce.Manhammer

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Seriously one of the gals I see, the objectively hottest one needs a regular serious verbal lashing and being told to gtfo. She gets all indignant, says stupid **** and then crawls back within hours. She is so clearly cluster b it’s absurd but so many women today are. She then falls in line, and we have the wildest raunchiest sex for weeks then it all starts again on the downslope because I don’t keep the heat on her fine arse.

Women really want to be led subconsciously, although consciously they rear their heads. It’s absurd. I’ve seen it so many times with different women.
 

pipeman84

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Care to expand on this?
One can very well have a fit body and good financial situation and be a beta male that makes the woman's pvssy dry as sand. One example that comes to mind is Jason Oppenheim...that guy's face basically screams beta. Just look at the way he handled his relationship with Chrishell Stause if you want proof.
 

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LARaiders85

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Its like you are King sleeping with the enemy the whole time. They are just always probing for weakness. They are constantly wanting to overthrow the King but they are just waiting for that opportune time to do it.
Dating and relationships in a nutshell
 

Pandora

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Women really want to be led subconsciously, although consciously they rear their heads. It’s absurd. I’ve seen it so many times with different women.
Bro its absurd isnt it? Pure insanity. They want to be led and dominated. They love confidence and decisiveness. They love raw aggression and being choked and spanked.

Yet they fight against you when you try to course correct their self destructive behavior.

Make that make sense
 

BeExcellent

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Hmmm.

My man leads. I respect him & submit to his leadership but there are instances where I cannot because he doesn’t have the necessary life experience. Prime example is parenting. He is not a father and did not grow up with any sisters (he has one younger brother). But at times he will tell me how to parent my teen girls. He typically advises things that I know are the utterly wrong thing. I have two teen girls, grew up the oldest of 4 sisters, and had my youngest sister live with me her junior year in high school years ago. So my man honestly doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. My girls are respectful and well adjusted but on occasion have angsty teen moments that require calibration & nuance. My guy is not the most socially calibrated person to begin with and does not understand “pick your battles” in parenting. That’s ok. I will listen to him & if he is just flat out wrong then I will say “well I appreciate your input. Let me consider what you suggest.” Now. I will then do what I believe to be the best approach, and if he asks later I explain WHY I chose to do as I did. He then will listen & consider what I have done and why.

I must bear always in mind that my man expects to lead (which I appreciate) but at the same time he is out of his knowledge base in a number of realms. Therefore I must be patient (because I respect him), listen earnestly to understand where he is on certain issues and then carefully navigate thorny issues to at once help him gain greater understanding and establish boundaries where his leadership is welcome/expected and where it is, to be blunt, inappropriate.

This is a very much more complex landscape than @catsmeow2 finds herself in. She is first marriage to a man she loves & respects and they will soon be parents together as a nuclear family. That is the ideal scenario. My life is more complicated. I already have children, an ex husband, and financial responsibilities and obligations and I am required to meet those obligations as I have always done for years before meeting my fiancé. So with me there is an existing framework or structure that must be ACCEPTED by any man I marry. Outside of that existing framework I defer to him and submit to him either outright or after contributing my 0.02 cents. Within the pre existing framework he must accept some things as they are.

Because he expects to be IN CHARGE there are at times conflicts between his expectations and reality. In those moments it is important for my to understand his perspective and exhibit patience and diplomacy, especially on things where I cannot breach prior agreements.

As our relationship has grown we are progressively getting better at communicating about and regarding these things. Part of the process for him, in my view is a maturation as he learns consideration for others outside himself. I have to allow him room to mature in this way as we navigate things, and the process creates deeper trust & bonding as we go. So our journey is a bit different.

One thing that happens with people who do not marry & do not have children is they are inherently self focused and self centered. As people who are never married/never parents arrive into middle age, they are quite set in their ways. Marriage is about consideration of something outside of self. Self must become secondary. Parents arrive at this through the natural process of caring for an utterly helpless young child (whose needs, for a time must come first)…marriage partners must make the adjustment from “I” thinking to “we” thinking. This adjustment is why the first year of marriage is often the hardest.

The older and more set in his or her ways someone is the tougher this adjustment becomes. A traditionalist mindset assists greatly in my view, i.e., the man leads & the woman accepts his leadership.

I am well aware that my fiancé is desirable and can find another woman. That is a known fact. He also knows I could find another desirable man. I am not going to cling to him. I love him; I respect him. I also understand if the framework he must accept to be with me is too much for him. I can let him go. The ironic thing is that the qualities he most values in me are the qualities born of sacrificing self for something greater than self. I didn’t develop those qualities overnight or by accident. They are the result of a strong father figure, a strong family of origin, my character and my life experience including my first marriage and child rearing while being the sole breadwinner.

He benefits from the sum of my life experience to date. And he knows finding a woman like me is unusual and to use his words “it took me 30 years to find a woman worth marrying….” and he recognizes now what he has (as a teen he had a beautiful girl who he loved & wanted to marry, but he bailed on her because she wanted to be his wife & have his kids…and later he realized he had a hot submissive woman in her…but he didn’t want children or an uneducated housewife to support)….it is impossible to say how that might have gone had he not left her.

So we are progressing just fine with him as my top priority as my man.
 
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Pandora

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Hmmm.

My man leads. I respect him & submit to his leadership but there are instances where I cannot because he doesn’t have the necessary life experience. Prime example is parenting. He is not a father and did not grow up with any sisters (he has one younger brother). But at times he will tell me how to parent my teen girls. He typically advises things that I know are the utterly wrong thing. I have two teen girls, grew up the oldest of 4 sisters, and had my youngest sister live with me her junior year in high school years ago. So my man honestly doesn’t know what he doesn’t know. My girls are respectful and well adjusted but on occasion have angsty teen moments that require calibration & nuance. My guy is not the most socially calibrated person to begin with and does not understand “pick your battles” in parenting. That’s ok. I will listen to him & if he is just flat out wrong then I will say “well I appreciate your input. Let me consider what you suggest.” Now. I will then do what I believe to be the best approach, and if he asks later I explain WHY I chose to do as I did. He then will listen & consider what I have done and why.

I must bear always in mind that my man expects to lead (which I appreciate) but at the same time he is out of his knowledge base in a number of realms. Therefore I must be patient (because I respect him), listen earnestly to understand where he is on certain issues and then carefully navigate thorny issues to at once help him gain greater understanding and establish boundaries where his leadership is welcome/expected and where it is, to be blunt, inappropriate.

This is a very much more complex landscape than @catsmeow2 finds herself in. She is first marriage to a man she loves & respects and they will soon be parents together as a nuclear family. That is the ideal scenario. My life is more complicated. I already have children, an ex husband, and financial responsibilities and obligations and I am required to meet those obligations as I have always done for years before meeting my fiancé. So with me there is an existing framework or structure that must be ACCEPTED by any man I marry. Outside of that existing framework I defer to him and submit to him either outright or after contributing my 0.02 cents. Within the pre existing framework he must accept some things as they are.

Because he expects to be IN CHARGE there are at times conflicts between his expectations and reality. In those moments it is important for my to understand his perspective and exhibit patience and diplomacy, especially on things where I cannot breach prior agreements.

As our relationship has grown we are progressively getting better at communicating about and regarding these things. Part of the process for him, in my view is a maturation as he learns consideration for others outside himself. I have to allow him room to mature in this way as we navigate things, and the process creates deeper trust & bonding as we go. So our journey is a bit different.

One thing that happens with people who do not marry & do not have children is they are inherently self focused and self centered. As people who are never married/never parents arrive into middle age, they are quite set in their ways. Marriage is about consideration of something outside of self. Self must become secondary. Parents arrive at this through the natural process of caring for an utterly helpless young child (whose needs, for a time must come first)…marriage partners must make the adjustment from “I” thinking to “we” thinking. This adjustment is why the first year of marriage is often the hardest.

The older and more set in his or her ways someone is the tougher this adjustment becomes. A traditionalist mindset assists greatly in my view, i.e., the man leads & the woman accepts his leadership.

I am well aware that my fiancé is desirable and can find another woman. That is a known fact. He also knows I could find another desirable man. I am not going to cling to him. I love him; I respect him. I also understand if the framework he must accept to be with me is too much for him. I can let him go. The ironic thing is that the qualities he most values in me are the qualities born of sacrificing self for something greater than self. I didn’t develop those qualities overnight or by accident. They are the result of a strong father figure, a strong family of origin, my character and my life experience including my first marriage and child rearing while being the sole breadwinner.

He benefits from the sum of my life experience to date. And he knows finding a woman like me is unusual and to use his words “it took me 30 years to find a woman worth marrying….” and he recognizes now what he has (as a teen he had a beautiful girl who he loved & wanted to marry, but he bailed on her because she wanted to be his wife & have his kids…and later he realized he had a hot submissive woman in her…but he didn’t want children or an uneducated housewife to support)….it is impossible to say how that might have gone had he not left her.

So we are progressing just fine with him as my top priority as my man.
I am genuinely happy that you and your partner found that balance. I agree that women should be mostly in charge of parenting young children. Men should be there primarily as a disciplinarian if needed.

Women are better then men at a few things:

1.) Nurturing young children. The love a mother shows for a child is unparrelled. We cant compete. You guys are so empathetic its amazing.

2.) Interior decorating and making a house a home.

3.) Reading peoples body language

4.) Managing details. They are good secretaries and multitaskers ( they can do other jobs competently too, its just that this comes naturally to them).

Men should defer to women on these matters most of the time. So yes it makes sense that your husband has no idea how to parent girls as well as you. We lack emotion and empathy.
 

Howiestern

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This is false brother. She is not a grown adult and she does not know what she is doing. This is the critical thing the Western world has wrong. Women were designed to be under the leadership of a strong worthy alpha male. This is why they want a man that is taller, smarter, stronger etc.

They deep down need a man for survival and life guidance. In return they provide us men with nurturing, love, good advice ( sometimes) and they take care of the kids.

Women cant lead. This is why most criminals and strippers come from single mother households. This is also why you dont see many successful women led companys.
A person who primarily uses "emotional" logic is not capable of making "adult" level decisions. And women are emotional creatures. I would never have one for a boss.
 
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