Thinking about leaving my wife

[Tenacity]

Years ago I was in the same situation as you are currently facing. I made the decision to end the marriage. Eventually found a woman I thought was a step above my then ex wife. And I grew to hate her. I tell you true if you have a woman who is loyal to you, lives to be part of your life and wants to form a "team" made of two, you are a fool to leave. Trust me on this. The "Great" life you speak of is a fairy tale. Age will give you insight that is much more damning than it is forgiving. Choose wisely grasshopper.

^^^ This right here. The only drawback I see is that the wife wants to spend a lot of money on dumb things, rather than do more investments. Maybe you guys need to listen to Dave Ramsey? I don't agree with a lot of what Ramsey says, especially his views on "debt is always bad and don't have a fico score" which I think is just insane/extreme advice, but Ramsey hits the nail on the head when he talks about making BUDGETS and making sure to put a good amount away in Investments.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Really appreciate all the feedback guys, and actually fairly surprised at the overwhelming consensus that I should stay put.

First, to answer a few questions:
- Yes, my wife was a virgin before I met her.
- When I say I don't feel challenged, what I mean is that she doesn't stimulate me mentally. We never engage in witty banter, she never teases me, etc. May not seem like a big deal, but to me, it's a key part of what makes being with a woman fun
- We have had conversations about our goals and what we want out of life, and she is aware that mine are different than hers. To be fair, I'm still trying to figure out my passions and dreams, but I know that they go beyond the typical American dream of house, kids, and a dog. I also find it hard to respect someone whose sole objective in life are those things. She very explicitly told me multiple times that her "goal" in life is to have a big house (think multi-million) but instead of wanting to make a lot of money herself, she puts pressure on me to pursue a lucrative career. While we are both currently in successful careers (myself much more so than my wife) and do very well financially, I dislike the fact that because of my wife, I feel restricted from taking risks and truly exploring my career interests.

- She loves to spend money on herself but is not generous with others
- She sees the worst in people, and always seems to find some sort of drama. She's quick to assume the worst intentions in others. As a result, she has no close friends
- She is fixated on appearance and material things

This is a little different from the "ideal wife" picture you painted in your original post. What you're basically saying that your wife is boring, self-centred, materialistic and prone to drama. Those would be pretty good reasons to eject now (before you've had a chance to build up any substantial material wealth).

As for "butterflies", as others have said, those are better left for short-term romances. You are no going to find a woman who is "exciting" and gives you "butterflies" and also makes for a good long-term partner. That's because excitement and drama are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Illest]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Like others have said, some really great advice and invaluable perspective in here. Really appreciate it.

As of now, I'm leaning against doing anything, partly because some of you have gotten to me with your very dire warnings and partially because I'm not quite prepared to face the inevitable ****storm that would ensue, which perhaps is not a good reason.

A few more thoughts though as I continue to ponder this:

- My wife chose me. I did not choose her. We met in college and she first approached me to ask about classes. I suppose I was charming enough in that first interaction to pique her interest and she started texting/calling me. Sure, I was interested as well but only to the extent that any guy would be interested in any cute girl; she was not my type. In the end, she was actually the one to call and ask to hang out. To be fair, I would have eventually made the move as well, but only because she signaled her interest so strongly and I was anxious to get some dating experience, plus she was cute.

- I have never approached a girl / asked a girl out / been in the game. Prior to meeting my wife, I had my heart broken after being a total AFC towards a female friend who I thought I was in love with. That's when I found the Book of Pook and started working on reforming myself, but my wife came along before too much progress was made. I still wish I could continue the journey to becoming a true DJ, pick up multiple girls, fvck lots of different women, etc. I regret not ever having had the chance to develop that part of myself.

- My wife was born and raised in a different country, moving to the States when she was in her teens. I know many of you seem to value foreign chicks, but personally, I've always preferred American girls. Yes, she is perhaps more submissive, which I don't care about, but she is also overly reliant and needy. She wants to spend all our time together and hates it whenever I do anything without her, especially if there are other women present.

- Isn't settling for a woman whom I didn't choose and whom I don't truly love, out of fear of not being able to find someone better, trading freedom for security? I continue to be baffled that most people are telling me to stay. Isn't part of being a DJ having the confidence to walk away knowing that you can always find another woman you want?

- We don't have a prenup. We are still fairly young so don't have too much in terms of assets, but have accumulated a decent amount in savings. I had assumed that these would just be divided evenly upon a divorce but perhaps I'm being naive?

 

[samspade]

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to develop yourself, or experience other women, or have some independence. Like I said, you have one life to live. When you're on your deathbed, what will you wish you'd done?

Some men here will argue against that - that it's juvenile, it's Eat/Pray/Love b.s., or that you just shouldn't destroy a good woman because of all that. I think what's valid is what affects you. If leaving her will devastate you with regret and loneliness then maybe it's a bad move. If it will make you happier, it's probably the right move. Again, no one can know for sure.

I'm not telling you to leave or stay. Whatever you feel in your gut is best for you is what matters.

The good news is that whatever course you take, you will survive and so will she. Eventually you'll adapt and move on with your lives, just as if one of you passed away. There'd be sadness but life will march on.

As for your financials, it really depends. My ex and I had no property, and a lot of secondhand furniture. We preferred spending money on experiences over objects. So yes we divided it all up and split it down the middle. We didn't even hire a lawyer, just processed everything for a few hundred bucks.

Oh and I totally get what you mean about her being foreign, reliant, and needy. That's the other side of the coin for many great foreign women.

 

[Illest]

Sam, I actually went back and read a couple of your threads from when you were going through your divorce. They were very enlightening although I do think my situation is a little different from yours. Sounds like you had no/few complaints about your ex-wife, but was just unhappy with being married in general. While that's certainly part of the problem for me as well, it's compounded by the fact that I don't believe I'm with the right woman. I do have a few more questions for you though, if you don't mind sharing:

- Now after two years, do you have any regrets about your decision?
- How has re-entering single life been compared to what you had expected?
- Do you plan on marrying again?
- Has being a divorcé affected your prospects at all in the dating game? Do you feel that there is a stigma attached to it that you have to overcome? Has it at all limited the types of women who may be interested in you, or in other words, are there certain women who will just automatically rule out someone who's been married before?

 

[donking]

Bro, right now you are just trying to do a cost/benefit analysis of what happens post-divorce. I don't know man, not saying it's wrong to do, but doesn't sound manly. Something about your tone such as stigma of divorce doesn't rub quite right.

Man up dude. If you want to be divorced, then divorce. If you want to stay married, then stay married. Don't pu33yfoot around and stay married just because you might get a stigma that may harm your post-marital dating game. That ain't right to you, your wife, anyone.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Man up dude. If you want to be divorced, then divorce. If you want to stay married, then stay married.

I think OP's problem is that he doesn't actually know what he wants...

 

[LiveFreeX]

Sam: I wonder how your Brazilian ex-wife feels with your incredibly narcissistic decision. But whatever, you know how I feel about that. Generation Entitlement.

I'm gonna give you the other-side of the coin, do not do whats right for YOU only because thats BS. Our world wasn't created by a bunch of greedy mother fvckers acting only on their own impulses despite what PUAs would have you believe. It wasn't created by a bunch of 'Alpha dogs' fvckin every slvt around. It was built by men with integrity who were willing to give their lives so that every one of us could have a bit of freedom. It came with ALOT of sacrifice and alot of pain, heartache, toil and even death... if everyone at one point just got fed up and said 'fvk it MGTOW!'... we wouldn't have modern society. If everyone acted on every impulse they had, we'd have dead people everywhere. My grandfather went to WW2 and lost 3 brothers, I'm quite certain he would have rather been banging hotties at home then getting his ass shot in the middle of a firefight but sometimes we have to do whats right to ensure a better future for our children.

I'm in the same boat but I chose this road... my wife is maddly in love with me and I'm lukewarm about her. I don't get butterflies all the time but when I do, she knows it. I got butterflies a few weeks ago when I was in the hospital passing out from vitamin deficiencies and high CK levels... I'm not well, my health isn't what it used to be and my wife watches me like a hawk. If I need help she comes running full speed. She recently told her boss to Foff when the boss demanded she come in to work while I was sick. Instant butterflies!

My wife knows I'm not healthy too but she doesn't run off to bang the millionaires around here. She most certainly could because right now the guy to girl ratio is something like 50 to 1 and her family is getting propositioned from people who have more assets and money then Prince Harry, but she still stays with me in my little dump in the south of China with ****roaches, rats and all manner of disgusting things. We rarely fight and she spends 99% of her day by my side, its a little boring but its stable and our kids will have an incredibly stable family to grow up in. Sometimes you have to sacrifice a little.

There are women you marry and women you BANG... bangers are good for nothing but a bang... my wife was a virgin when I met her and its true, she coded herself to me. I don't like starbucks face, my wife doesn't like starbucks face. Money not really important to me beyond survival, Money not important to my wife beyond survival... there is something to be said for virgins... at least Chinese virgins.

First, to answer a few questions:
- Yes, my wife was a virgin before I met her.
- When I say I don't feel challenged, what I mean is that she doesn't stimulate me mentally. We never engage in witty banter, she never teases me, etc. May not seem like a big deal, but to me, it's a key part of what makes being with a woman fun
- We have had conversations about our goals and what we want out of life, and she is aware that mine are different than hers. To be fair, I'm still trying to figure out my passions and dreams, but I know that they go beyond the typical American dream of house, kids, and a dog. I also find it hard to respect someone whose sole objective in life are those things. She very explicitly told me multiple times that her "goal" in life is to have a big house (think multi-million) but instead of wanting to make a lot of money herself, she puts pressure on me to pursue a lucrative career. While we are both currently in successful careers (myself much more so than my wife) and do very well financially, I dislike the fact that because of my wife, I feel restricted from taking risks and truly exploring my career interests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illest
- She loves to spend money on herself but is not generous with others
- She sees the worst in people, and always seems to find some sort of drama. She's quick to assume the worst intentions in others. As a result, she has no close friends
- She is fixated on appearance and material things

A couple differences between your wife and mine, neither of us attended college, so we don't really care what job the other gets. She could work at Burger King and I could be a garbage man for all she cares. I can't get her to spend more than a couple dollars on clothes each month, I know if I give her money, she'll make a secret trip to the bank and dump it all into a savings account. I feel as those my wife doesn't put ENOUGH pressure on me... I could stay at home the entire year and my wife would pick up the slack. My wife gives me half of everything she has. If she buys Mcdonalds or an Ice cream, she'll give me 3/4's of it... she might have one of those disorders that makes her a 'care taker', my mother had a similar affliction with my narcissistic father.. That said, the two of us are lazy, spend a lot of our time playing video games and watching movies and cartoons leaving the house in a state of disarray. Oh well, que sera sera.

http://www.wat.tv/video/jimmy-soul-if-you-wanna-be-happy-3z713_2ey2h_.html

 

[samspade]

- Now after two years, do you have any regrets about your decision?

None whatsoever. I won't say it was easy, but I know I did the right thing. LiveFreeX and I respectfully disagree on that, as you can see from his post. He believes I should live according to his code. I prefer to live my life the way I see fit. Whether other people think of it as "entitled" is not my problem. I suppose I am entitled: Entitled to make my own decisions and accept the consequences, which is what I have done. That's not to take away from the points he makes though, which are valid in many ways. It seems he is happy with his life and I am happy with mine, but I'm not going to tell you that my way is the way for you.

- How has re-entering single life been compared to what you had expected?

I didn't have any expectations because at first I was just trying to power through the loss. I was up and down for a little while. Now I am much more zen. Single life feels great to me. I'm not like other guys here who complain about how awful so many women are or how lonely it can be. I like solitude and I can screen women, and I don't ever feel like I "need" to have one around. I'm more focused on my long-term plans, career and personal improvements and the like, and women seem to find their way to me.

- Do you plan on marrying again?

I have no idea. That's a bridge I'll cross when I get to it.

- Has being a divorcé affected your prospects at all in the dating game? Do you feel that there is a stigma attached to it that you have to overcome? Has it at all limited the types of women who may be interested in you, or in other words, are there certain women who will just automatically rule out someone who's been married before?

There may be some women for whom it's a dealbreaker, but I haven't met any. Most simply see it as experience, and experience in a man is a plus. I also don't have a "woe is me" attitude; I'm not the poor divorced schmuck. I've got a shyt-eating grin on my face most of the time because I have nothing to complain about. In any case, there will always be women who are uninterested in you for one reason or another, and women who are interested in spite of some reason. It really is more about your mentality and how you present yourself.

 

[Illest]

Thanks, Sam. Very helpful as always.

God, I may be pretty fvcked.

Wife logged into my Google and read some of my chats with the work chick. There's nothing super incriminating in there but she's super pissed that I talked to her so much and says we were "flirting." Says she's lost all trust in me.

Need to go home now and confront the situation, but not sure how best to approach. Feel like I'm being forced into a decision here before I'm ready. Fvck fvck fvck

 

[Desdinova]

Fvck fvck fvck

...and this is why you should be avoiding the work slvt. Now you have to do damage control because you got caught.

I have no advice on how to go about your damage control. I'm going to restate what I said before.... Work at making this woman better quality by being the leader in your marriage. She's got a good solid base as a potentially great woman. You just need to bring out the best in her.

 

[Obsidian]

@OP,

What you are proposing is called "oath-breaking," and it is morally wrong. Also, I suspect that you will probably wind up miserable if you do it.

 

[donking]

On the bright side, now you know how much your wife is worth.

 

[LimeSlush]

Let's see.... of the women I've met since my divorce.... ONE thought she could move in with her cat.... when I told her BEFORE we dated that I was allergic She cheated on her husband with a guy. Cheated on HIM with ME, Then cheated on me with another guy.... he moved in with her a MONTH after we broke up.... and when she was mad at HIM, would come over and do me.

ANOTHER one, when I WOULDN'T go out for breakfast after the bars closed.... SHE said, " it's 2010, there are NEW rules.... WE have the p&ssy, you have to do what WE say" As I dropped her off, I let her know those were HER rules, not mine

The THIRD, thought she was an alpha female.... because she'd slept with over 60 guys.... former stripper, she was HOT.... and a boatload of nuts.

Several WOULDN'T date me because I told them "if it get's serious, the pet has to go" but then were whining on Facebook about being lonely.... THEY chose a PET over a man....
Well to be honest if any women I was dating told me I'd have to give up my dog for them I'd dump them in a heartbeat haha

The girl who FINALLY figured out I "could" rape her because I was bigger than she was..... and we never even got CLOSE to sex.

The girl who said some of the times we had sex it was almost rape.... until I asked her if she meant the times she woke me up by rubbing my d1ck?

I've had several women grab my **** in public.... except they didn't want to follow up.... or they were ugly and I didn't want to follow up {one was a lesbian}


The women who want you to spend the money to raise THEIR kids....

THIS is what you are going to find in the "dating market" that you are SO interested in joining.....

Also I read the DJ bible on the long term relationships, and it was all about the phases that relationships go through, and maybe what you're missing is the honeymoon phase or the "puppy dog love". All meaningful relationships move on from this stage, to a point where continuing to love a person becomes almost a choice. You choose to continue loving a person even through their faults, and their mistakes. I'm not married and never have been, so I have no divorce advice to give. But I will recommend two books to read that I loved. The married man's sex primer and no more mr nice guy. Hope everything works out for the both of you no matter what you decide.

 

[sodbuster]

I understand about the dog.... BUT I'm not seeing you whine about being lonely on Facebook either. It was always upfront BEFORE we dated.... or didn't. The one's who didn't believe me were the ones who annoyed the hell out of me. "Your Vag DIDN'T cure my asthma.... you STILL can't bring it in my house."

 

[samspade]

It allows you to get over the "grass is always greener" mentality much quicker. I was at breaking point with my ex around January. I wasn't being honest with myself. I tried to invent reasons for why I wanted to split up but in reality it was just because I wanted to fvck someone else. Nothing more. Once I admitted this truth to mysrelf I took the plunge and began screwing around. Best decision I ever made and it actually made me appreciate my gf more.

I'm confused by this...she is your ex now, it was the best decision you ever made and you now appreciate her more? I'm not being sarcastic, I just don't follow.

 

[Desdinova]

Stick with your wife if you feel you will regret your decision but have something on the side - whether that be a mistress, the odd bit of strange or regular hookers.

I'm all for this, but I also agree that you need to be smart about it. If this is the option that you choose to go, I'll post a link to The Cheat Manual.

 

[Desdinova]

Des, I read the cheat manual and thought it was good but a bit anachronistic. Plus it's written from the perspective that you intend to eventually leave your wife. What I'm talking about is a sustained lifestyle where you manage your family and your mistress/gf/hookers as part of the new normal.

I didn't get that from it at all. I never found the book to be insistent in any way on what one should do with their wife/mistress. I found that it made me much more aware of things that can go wrong and gave excellent suggestions on ways to cover one's tracks. Regardless, it's an excellent reality check for someone who's going into a relationship with a mistress and possibly has his head in an emotional cloud. The wife is the one who's supposed to be the permanent fixture, and the mistress is the disposable one. Too many guys go into a cheating situation viewing everything as the opposite, with the OP being our immediate example.

 

[samspade]

Personally I would rather be single than deal with a mistress on the side, but that is me. I get that it works for some guys, but I suck at the logistics. However when I got divorced I did not branch swing. I was perfectly okay with being alone first.

 

[Illest]

Alright, so after a pretty tumultuous weekend, the wife and I are back on good terms. Since there was nothing super incriminating, I just played innocent/dumb and maintained that I was merely being nice/friendly with no other intentions. She's now directing all her vitriol towards the work chick whom she now thinks is some super screwed up ***** who gets satisfaction from stealing married men. There are a few social events coming up where they'll both be present, so it'll definitely interesting/awkward, but I suppose that's the price for my indiscretion.

Man up dude. If you want to be divorced, then divorce. If you want to stay married, then stay married. Don't pu33yfoot around and stay married just because you might get a stigma that may harm your post-marital dating game. That ain't right to you, your wife, anyone.

This was actually good advice. I have a habit of being indecisive and over-analytical whereas oftentimes, it's better to make the wrong decision and just own it rather than continuously wavering. As uncomfortable as it was, I think the most recent episode with my wife was a positive as it forced me to make a decision, and I've decided to commit to her and the marriage. Despite her faults, deep down, she's a good woman whom I can trust to always be faithful to me. She has strong maternal instincts and I'm sure she'll be a good mother to our future children. Furthermore, despite my complaints about her spending habits, she's actually pretty financially savvy and net net, I would say she's actually a positive for my financial situation. I could do a lot worse in a life partner.

Stick with your wife if you feel you will regret your decision but have something on the side - whether that be a mistress, the odd bit of strange or regular hookers.

It allows you to get over the "grass is always greener" mentality much quicker. I was at breaking point with my ex around January. I wasn't being honest with myself. I tried to invent reasons for why I wanted to split up but in reality it was just because I wanted to fvck someone else. Nothing more. Once I admitted this truth to mysrelf I took the plunge and began screwing around. Best decision I ever made and it actually made me appreciate my gf more.

As much as I'd like to sample some strange, not sure I'm prepared to do that to my wife. Also, especially in light of the latest episode, she's got me on pretty tight watch and not sure I could pull this off even if I wanted to. And question for you, with the mistress route, isn't there always the inherent danger that the girl goes crazy after realizing she can't have you and confronts your wife/gf about it? Seems way too risky.