Thinking about leaving my wife

[Illest]

Really appreciate all the feedback guys, and actually fairly surprised at the overwhelming consensus that I should stay put.

First, to answer a few questions:
- Yes, my wife was a virgin before I met her.
- When I say I don't feel challenged, what I mean is that she doesn't stimulate me mentally. We never engage in witty banter, she never teases me, etc. May not seem like a big deal, but to me, it's a key part of what makes being with a woman fun
- We have had conversations about our goals and what we want out of life, and she is aware that mine are different than hers. To be fair, I'm still trying to figure out my passions and dreams, but I know that they go beyond the typical American dream of house, kids, and a dog. I also find it hard to respect someone whose sole objective in life are those things. She very explicitly told me multiple times that her "goal" in life is to have a big house (think multi-million) but instead of wanting to make a lot of money herself, she puts pressure on me to pursue a lucrative career. While we are both currently in successful careers (myself much more so than my wife) and do very well financially, I dislike the fact that because of my wife, I feel restricted from taking risks and truly exploring my career interests.

There's also another key piece of information that I neglected to share in my original post. Even though I might not want to admit it, the only reason I started considering leaving my wife is because I recently found myself becoming attracted to another woman at work. She's not as physically attractive as my wife, perhaps a 6 compared to a 7 or 8 for my wife, but personality-wise, she at least appears to be vastly superior. She's independent, witty, principled, and her values align much more closely with mine. We have not engaged in a romantic manner but I have gotten to know her extremely well over the past couple of years. I hate the idea of leaving my wife because of/for another woman, but more than anything else, she's helped illuminate the fact that my wife is not my type.

Reading people's responses, I think I was probably too kind in my characterization of my wife in my original post. Here are some additional faults I find in her:
- She loves to spend money on herself but is not generous with others
- She sees the worst in people, and always seems to find some sort of drama. She's quick to assume the worst intentions in others. As a result, she has no close friends
- She is fixated on appearance and material things

Ultimately, the problem is I don't admire her as a person. Forget the butterflies or being in love crap, I just want to be with a woman whom I respect and admire. Is that too much to ask?

Also, I feel like I am living a lie. She’s very vocal about her feelings towards me, and obviously expects me to reciprocate. And so I do, how could I not? But I don't love her, and never have, and is it right for me to live the rest of my life lying to her?

To clarify how I feel about my wife, as strange as it may seem, my affection towards her is almost like the affection one might feel towards a child. I hate to see her unhappy, I wish the best for her, it bring me joy to see her smile. But honestly, I am not attracted to her and have never been that attracted to her. Yes, I mentioned the sex is good, and she's willing to do a lot of things, but for as long as I can remember, I've had to fantasize about other women while doing her. That can't be right/normal.

Finally, what brought me to this SoSuave was the Book of Pook. Pook advocates that each man should live the life that he wants and pursue his dreams. If I stay with my wife, I can't help but feel that I am giving up my life for her happiness, yet I don't know if I can muster up the courage and the will to face the short-term turbulence (as Samspade put it) that comes with leaving her.

 

[samspade]

Here are the potential paths I see:

1. You stay with your wife, and your unhappiness continues. You lose interest and she senses it. Eventually, she becomes unhappy to and the marriage falls apart one way or another, or becomes a shell of a marriage.

2. You stay with your wife, and resolve to remain committed and find some path to happiness with her.

3. You decide to leave your wife.

It sounds like #2 would be difficult for you based on what you've said. Maybe I'm wrong. Between 1 and 3, neither is something you want to do necessarily, but 3 is more like ripping off the band-aid. Number 1 is more like letting a scab fester.

If I were you I'd forget all about the woman at work. I'm sure she's great, but there will always be women you'll meet and wonder what-if. This is about you - your life, and whether you think your wife fits in with your plans.

Feel free to PM me if you like.

 

[donking]

The woman at work who you seemingly have so much in common with is going to morph the moment you actually LIVE with her. It's a fact of life that people who you don't live together with seem more exciting and often interesting.

Women and Men generally have very little in common in their desires from life. Don't expect any woman NOT to have dreams of big house. This is (virtually) ALL women's dreams including my own mom who finally "achieved" her dream in her 50s. Rare is the woman who is ok with living in a <500 sq ft studio.

Regarding fantasizing during sex, I've done it in ALL my relationships. Nothing wrong thinking about other women while doing the deed. It's normal to desire other pieces of ass.

What is abnormal in today's world is the inability of rich and desirable men to have multiple partners (while married).

Really appreciate all the feedback guys, and actually fairly surprised at the overwhelming consensus that I should stay put.

First, to answer a few questions:
- Yes, my wife was a virgin before I met her.
- When I say I don't feel challenged, what I mean is that she doesn't stimulate me mentally. We never engage in witty banter, she never teases me, etc. May not seem like a big deal, but to me, it's a key part of what makes being with a woman fun
- We have had conversations about our goals and what we want out of life, and she is aware that mine are different than hers. To be fair, I'm still trying to figure out my passions and dreams, but I know that they go beyond the typical American dream of house, kids, and a dog. I also find it hard to respect someone whose sole objective in life are those things. She very explicitly told me multiple times that her "goal" in life is to have a big house (think multi-million) but instead of wanting to make a lot of money herself, she puts pressure on me to pursue a lucrative career. While we are both currently in successful careers (myself much more so than my wife) and do very well financially, I dislike the fact that because of my wife, I feel restricted from taking risks and truly exploring my career interests.

There's also another key piece of information that I neglected to share in my original post. Even though I might not want to admit it, the only reason I started considering leaving my wife is because I recently found myself becoming attracted to another woman at work. She's not as physically attractive as my wife, perhaps a 6 compared to a 7 or 8 for my wife, but personality-wise, she at least appears to be vastly superior. She's independent, witty, principled, and her values align much more closely with mine. We have not engaged in a romantic manner but I have gotten to know her extremely well over the past couple of years. I hate the idea of leaving my wife because of/for another woman, but more than anything else, she's helped illuminate the fact that my wife is not my type.

Reading people's responses, I think I was probably too kind in my characterization of my wife in my original post. Here are some additional faults I find in her:
- She loves to spend money on herself but is not generous with others
- She sees the worst in people, and always seems to find some sort of drama. She's quick to assume the worst intentions in others. As a result, she has no close friends
- She is fixated on appearance and material things

Ultimately, the problem is I don't admire her as a person. Forget the butterflies or being in love crap, I just want to be with a woman whom I respect and admire. Is that too much to ask?

Also, I feel like I am living a lie. She’s very vocal about her feelings towards me, and obviously expects me to reciprocate. And so I do, how could I not? But I don't love her, and never have, and is it right for me to live the rest of my life lying to her?

To clarify how I feel about my wife, as strange as it may seem, my affection towards her is almost like the affection one might feel towards a child. I hate to see her unhappy, I wish the best for her, it bring me joy to see her smile. But honestly, I am not attracted to her and have never been that attracted to her. Yes, I mentioned the sex is good, and she's willing to do a lot of things, but for as long as I can remember, I've had to fantasize about other women while doing her. That can't be right/normal.

Finally, what brought me to this SoSuave was the Book of Pook. Pook advocates that each man should live the life that he wants and pursue his dreams. If I stay with my wife, I can't help but feel that I am giving up my life for her happiness, yet I don't know if I can muster up the courage and the will to face the short-term turbulence (as Samspade put it) that comes with leaving her.

 

[DaddyLongShanks]

Most men who have made your decision are not happy with it. The "new" always looks fresh, exciting, etc. At the end of the day it's just another person.

If you and your wife get along, and have good and frequent sex, and she helps you out and takes care of you, swapping that for being "single" is usually a huge mistake.

Unless, you know you prefer the single life. Some people that's how they are and if you marry one of these perpetual "singles" you would be very unhappy. It wouldn't be fair to your wife if this is just how you are.

As far as leaving one person for another. It's usually not a good idea at all, unless you are in a abusive and crummy relationship.

 

[sodbuster]

My ex-wife told me " you'll NEVER find another woman who will treat you as good as I do". I couldn't figure THAT out.... IF I went to a bar and asked "who wants a bigger house? Who doesn't want to work? and WHO doesn't want to have sex with me?" I'm betting every woman in the place would be interested.

EVERY woman want's a bigger house and MORE prestige..... IF their man looks better to people, THEN SHE looks like a better woman because SHE caught HIM

 

[Illest]

Here are the potential paths I see:

1. You stay with your wife, and your unhappiness continues. You lose interest and she senses it. Eventually, she becomes unhappy to and the marriage falls apart one way or another, or becomes a shell of a marriage.

2. You stay with your wife, and resolve to remain committed and find some path to happiness with her.

3. You decide to leave your wife.

It sounds like #2 would be difficult for you based on what you've said. Maybe I'm wrong. Between 1 and 3, neither is something you want to do necessarily, but 3 is more like ripping off the band-aid. Number 1 is more like letting a scab fester.

If I were you I'd forget all about the woman at work. I'm sure she's great, but there will always be women you'll meet and wonder what-if. This is about you - your life, and whether you think your wife fits in with your plans.

Feel free to PM me if you like.

I wouldn't say #2 is completely out of the question. Until recently, I was pretty much happy in my marriage, but that really has more to do with my compromising nature than anything. I honestly think that I am able to live and be happy with most women. But I don't want just a decent life, I want a GREAT life, and I only have one shot at it. Some people here are saying that I shouldn't do something I'll regret, but I can't help but feel that what I'll regret is not leaving her when in ten years, we have kids and the cost of a divorce is exponentially higher.

Samspade, I tried to PM you but couldn't figure out how. Not sure if there's a post limit that I have to reach first or something.

One more rebuttal to those who think my wife is "special" and that I shouldn't leave her:
Yes, I am fortunate that I have a woman who loves and adores me as much as my wife, but really think it's a function of three things:
1. I took her virginity and so maybe she feels a special attachment. I don't really know anything about this but I've heard the idea before.
2. I am a desirable male with potentially higher SMV than her. I've been successful professionally thus far in my career and have a lot of earning potential. I'm decent looking and take good care of my body / am fit. She knows that I'm a catch and that she's unlikely to do better.
3. I don't love her and deep down, I suspect she can sense this and so is always striving to win me over.

None of these have anything to do with my wife's virtues and with the exception of #1, can be replicated with other women. Granted, I've essentially never been in the dating game, but I have a hard time believing that the women out there are that terrible. I see cute girls everywhere, they can't all be crazy.

 

[DaddyLongShanks]

Women have nothing to do with your great life. This woman sounds like good support for a great life, forget about chasing after a Disney fairytale soulmate until it consumes your life...then you have nothing. Read the horror stories about all the men that left good wives for BPD slvts.

And it's ALOT of men that did this. The thing about it, is the BPD slut takes special pride in breaking up a marriage, she just never told you about it. It shows power over you, and it shows superiority over the now ex wife.

Would you really want to hit your wife in the face for someone else, what about just spit in her face? That's what you are doing when you lay with another.

 

[Desdinova]

Yes, my wife was a virgin before I met her.

You have NO CLUE what a valuable trait this is in a woman. She has only fvcked you. You're at the top of her high score list. She will NEVER find another man to displace you in her mind.

If your wife wasn't a virgin when you met her, I'd have no problem supporting your decision to leave her. However, this very fact changes EVERYTHING. I'm dead fvcking serious. Having yourself a virginal wife means she's NEVER been negatively influenced or fvcked over by another man she's had a deep emotional connection with. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE. That is the only reason why I'm advising on making your marriage better than throwing it away for some cvm-dumpster you've been flirting with at work.

Now let me tell you this... If you decide to get rid of this woman, you will need to give up the idea of EVER being in a committed long term relationship. You will age on your own, have nobody to tend to you when you're sick, and have to rely on others who do not live with you for assistance. Women who have rode the c0ck carousel know that they can easily replace the men in their lives. Instead of being with a woman who finds you irreplaceable, you will be with many women who will have no problem throwing you away.

Is leaving your wife worth all of this???

When I say I don't feel challenged, what I mean is that she doesn't stimulate me mentally. We never engage in witty banter, she never teases me, etc. May not seem like a big deal, but to me, it's a key part of what makes being with a woman fun

A woman follows her man's lead. You cannot expect her to initiate this in your relationship. YOU have to be the one to do it. YOU need to teach her how to be fun. If you make this part of your personality, it will influence her and it will grow into her personality. Women are trainable to some extent.

We have had conversations about our goals and what we want out of life, and she is aware that mine are different than hers. To be fair, I'm still trying to figure out my passions and dreams, but I know that they go beyond the typical American dream of house, kids, and a dog. I also find it hard to respect someone whose sole objective in life are those things. She very explicitly told me multiple times that her "goal" in life is to have a big house (think multi-million) but instead of wanting to make a lot of money herself, she puts pressure on me to pursue a lucrative career.

The problem is you're paying attention to what this woman is saying. NEVER take a woman's words seriously. She may say she wants something, but her emotions will push her to do other things. DO NOT take her seriously here. If you work at making your dreams a reality, she will follow them. Women respect a man who knows what he wants and works towards getting it.

the only reason I started considering leaving my wife is because I recently found myself becoming attracted to another woman at work.

As someone who's engaged in having a mistress during marriage, you must be told that ANY interests outside marriage rarely last. Trading in a vehicle you got brand new with NO mileage is NOT less valuable than a vehicle that's seen upwards of 10 owners and has been worn out from repeated use.

I hate the idea of leaving my wife because of/for another woman, but more than anything else, she's helped illuminate the fact that my wife is not my type.

Working at customizing your wife is better than having one that is likely jaded from all the other guys who've fvcked her over. YOU are NOT at the top of that woman's high score list, and you never will be. Some other alpha male has taken that spot, and she will always hold a much higher regard for him than she ever will for you because she is NOT a virgin.

Reading people's responses, I think I was probably too kind in my characterization of my wife in my original post. Here are some additional faults I find in her:
- She loves to spend money on herself but is not generous with others

You WANT a woman who gives away your money? WTF is wrong with you?

- She sees the worst in people, and always seems to find some sort of drama. She's quick to assume the worst intentions in others. As a result, she has no close friends

Drama comes with women. It's a given. The fact that she has no close friends means that she's not heavily influenced by anybody but YOU. You have the most influence on this woman's life, and you should be using that to make her a better person.

- She is fixated on appearance and material things

Ummm..... Yeah, and????

You cannot expect this woman to behave like a logical man because she's NOT a logical man. She's an emotionally-driven woman. Things that look good make her feel good. However, you do NOT have to provide these things to her on a constant basis. She will respect you more if you're able to say 'NO' to her.

Ultimately, the problem is I don't admire her as a person.

You're not supposed to admire her. She's a woman. She's supposed to admire YOU. You're the leader, she's the follower. However, she'll only follow you if she feels that you ARE a leader. If you're not confidently leading your relationship and marriage, she won't respect you.

Pook advocates that each man should live the life that he wants and pursue his dreams. If I stay with my wife, I can't help but feel that I am giving up my life for her happiness, yet I don't know if I can muster up the courage and the will to face the short-term turbulence (as Samspade put it) that comes with leaving her.

As I mentioned earlier, if you choose to eliminate your wife from your life, you will have to dedicate yourself to solitary living. It's unlikely that you EVER will find another decent woman to settle with. The men here realize that most women out there are bottom of the barrel garbage who've been fvcked too many times by too many men.

My biggest suggestion is to give your wife a couple of years to be influenced by you while you improve yourself in becoming a confident, interesting, fun alpha-male.

As a side note... All that stuff you mentioned you don't like about your wife? I want a woman with ALL those qualities.

 

[samspade]

Samspade, I tried to PM you but couldn't figure out how. Not sure if there's a post limit that I have to reach first or something.

That might be the reason you couldn't. My inbox has room anyway, but I couldn't PM you either.

Definitely take into consideration others' viewpoints here, mine isn't the only perspective.

 

[DaddyLongShanks]

Desdinova is right. You really want to dispose of a wife for someone more versed in the trappings of the world, how to lure and bait you in to get what they want?

Your wife loves you, these other women are mostly huntresses. They get what they want and most will not care about you.

It's very hard to replace quality in relationships, and quality is not a visual "10", because they are usually crappy relation partners.

Your wife can be whatever you need her to be if you lead properly.

you want her to have a stronger worldly image? Guide her slightly to improving herself in those ways.

Like the other guy said, a female who has taken too many c0cks on is a problem, because they are always looking or knowing they can replace you.

I'd challenge myself to bring the best out in my wife if I were you.

 

[VladPatton]

Ok, after your second statement, you clearly are not happy in this marriage and it's eating away at you. In that case, yes, you should consider telling her and plan to divorce. You shouldn't lie to yourself for your entire life to keep some sort of false peace for everyone else's sake and benefit.

However, if you decide to go through with it, know that there's no turning back and you should own your decision to the max. I hope it works out for you, man. Keep us posted on what transpires in the weeks to come.

Good luck!

 

[sodbuster]

Let's see.... of the women I've met since my divorce.... ONE thought she could move in with her cat.... when I told her BEFORE we dated that I was allergic She cheated on her husband with a guy. Cheated on HIM with ME, Then cheated on me with another guy.... he moved in with her a MONTH after we broke up.... and when she was mad at HIM, would come over and do me.

ANOTHER one, when I WOULDN'T go out for breakfast after the bars closed.... SHE said, " it's 2010, there are NEW rules.... WE have the p&ssy, you have to do what WE say" As I dropped her off, I let her know those were HER rules, not mine

The THIRD, thought she was an alpha female.... because she'd slept with over 60 guys.... former stripper, she was HOT.... and a boatload of nuts.

Several WOULDN'T date me because I told them "if it get's serious, the pet has to go" but then were whining on Facebook about being lonely.... THEY chose a PET over a man....

The girl who FINALLY figured out I "could" rape her because I was bigger than she was..... and we never even got CLOSE to sex.

The girl who said some of the times we had sex it was almost rape.... until I asked her if she meant the times she woke me up by rubbing my d1ck?

I've had several women grab my **** in public.... except they didn't want to follow up.... or they were ugly and I didn't want to follow up {one was a lesbian}


The women who want you to spend the money to raise THEIR kids....

THIS is what you are going to find in the "dating market" that you are SO interested in joining.....

 

[DaddyLongShanks]

Personally I believe your looking around at the single game thinking you can get a much better deal, and let me tell you after having someone who has your back, these singles are nothing in comparison.

But if you don't like to be married or your wife is really that disgusting to you then you need to be fair to her and let her go.

 

[Tenacity]

Illest,

This is a decision you are going to have to make. Excuse me if I missed the answer to this, but do you have a Pre-Nup?

You know it's funny in that we RANT on women fvckign us over in marriage on this forum, and here we have a guy asking about fvcking a chick over that I quite honestly would have LOVED to have. Maybe if I would have met your chick dude, I wouldn't be planning a Vascetomy this month as well as having vowed to never marry. The vast majority of women I meet are total pieces of fvcking shyt.

But like I said, it's up to you what you want to do, but I believe you are very childish. You made the decision to marry, and you want to go through the hassles of divorce because it's some bimbo that has caught your eye? That's so childish dude.

And you claim that your wife doesn't "challenge" you? Damn, I wish I could find a fvcking chick that didn't challenge me lol, I have to deal with shyt test after shyt test, bad attitude problems, HAIR WEAVES, and all types of other shyt with the chicks I date. Here you got a chick that doesn't give you any drama and you want to fvck that up?

Geez.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

The problem is that you already aren't happy in this marriage. You need to consider how happy you will be 10 years down the road when you wake up In The middle of the night in a WTF moment with these types of thoughts running through your head:

I have an enormous mortgage on a McMansion I never wanted

I have a wife who spends way too much money on herself on my dime.

I'm married to a negative person who generates drama but who expects me to support her expensive habits and negativity.

I would like to do something else career wise, but my wife expects a certain lifestyle and income level.

You finally divorce so you can live life on your own terms, maybe do something else career wise, but the judge rules a certain level of "imputed" income that you are obligated to produce to support your ex wife's previous standard of living.

I'm not saying it's a paradise of wonderful sane women out there. It's not. All I'm saying is if you aren't happy and want to do something different with your time and resources, it's better to do it now rather than later when you could potentially pay a huge price for it.

-Augustus-

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

Also, consider this:

Her "goals" In life are a huge house and expensive things. But she doesn't want to provide that for herself. She wants you to provide that. Even pushes you to pursue a "lucrative" career.

Step back and think about that. What type of relationship is that? Despite her protestations of love, how does she really view you? As Rollo says, don't look at what a woman says, look at what she does.

-Augustus-

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

-remove double post-

 

[samspade]

Some good advice here, OP. My thoughts:

Forget for a moment the "other woman" you like. That's fool's gold. If you do pull the plug, do not have another woman in the wings. Make this about you.

Forget also that there are a lot of lousy women out on the market. We know that already. Wherever you are, you have to filter bad women out no matter what. Since I've been divorced, I've dated some fine women. I know it's on me to separate wheat from chaff. Keep in mind that all those women who gave you IOI's because you have a wedding ring aren't going to magically jump in your lap when you hit free agency.

More importantly, it sounds like you want something that goes beyond women and relationships. As mentioned before, maybe you can shape or lead your wife into what you want and be the man you want to be. On the other hand, maybe you need a fresh start and more freedom.

The fact is that you have the tools either way. You have to take ownership, though. Your wife may not be x,y, or z but most wives can and should be led. That's all part of game, too. But if you don't want that - and respect if you don't - own your decision. If you split, women will come and go, you might get frustrated and wonder what if, etc. Your life is bigger than that and the aim of any man's life should be to do it his way and that his female companionship, in any form, be a complement to a life well-lived.

 

[Spinach]

Years ago I was in the same situation as you are currently facing. I made the decision to end the marriage. Eventually found a woman I thought was a step above my then ex wife. And I grew to hate her. I tell you true if you have a woman who is loyal to you, lives to be part of your life and wants to form a "team" made of two, you are a fool to leave. Trust me on this. The "Great" life you speak of is a fairy tale. Age will give you insight that is much more damning than it is forgiving. Choose wisely grasshopper.

 

[Cejay]

Hi OP,

I'm separated, the divorce is in court now. Dealing with it amicably and very unusual and I'm really lucky. (The system is not set up for this very well)

I was married for 11 yrs to my college sweet heart. Like you I took her virginity, like you we had some different goals/values/etc. Most core values were the same, though. She aspired to have/do some pretty silly/unrealistic things over the years, but she (and many women) "think" with their hearts and aren't all that realistic at times.

Throughout a lot of the marriage I had grass is greener going on too. We had issues on and off over the years, everyone does. We weren't able to resolve some of them so I think we both kind of checked out here and there in our own (but subtle) ways. Eventually she cheated on me with a (former) friend.

I think that "checking out" certainly contributed to our demise.

I've dated a lot of women over the past ~2 yrs, lived all over the continent too, and had fun. I wasn't all that "happy" in my marriage but I'm not sure I am now either.
I miss "our" friends and my old life.

Really think this through. Read the threads about dating here, read Rational Male (1/2). Think about if you can fix your marriage and customize or not. Think about what its like to give up at least half your sh1t and possibly pay someone for years. (You might have to)

I wonder if you're just getting caught up in new pvssy syndrome? Or maybe you (like others) just don't want to be married? New pvssy can really confuse you and I think there are a lot of men who really regret it.

Remember this work chick is probably more like the picture of a big mac then the big mac you get. Every single woman out there, no matter how hot and amazing is single because some guy some where is tired of her sh1t.

Looking back, I liked being married much of the time, but at the same time, I'm not sure I'll ever be again either.

Only you can pick out whats right for you, and you have a lot of good advice on this thread.

Good luck with your decision.

CJ.