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The war on drug results are in.. it's a massacre

backbreaker

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earlier today I got a call from a friend back home, wanting me to talk to his little brother who is apparantly strung out of his mind on drugs. And this **** really hits home, to me beucase this dude was like what, 4 years younger than me and my friend, I remember spending the night over their house and beating him up in his sleep, just the innocence of being a little kid. now at what.. 23 year old he's a crackhead..
ss

just like I am. As some of you who read my post know, I'm a recovered drug addict. I loved crack. in 8 months i probably spend 50 thousand dollars on crack cocaine and that is no exaggeration. i'm sure some of you are saying babreaker how can you smoke 50 thousand dollars worth of crack. lol, one rock at a time my friend, one rock at a time. i

i joke about it but it's not a joking matter. i can look back and laugh now. itwas no laughing matter then. not only that, i had the means to literarl smoke myself in the ground; i had just sold my company and to be frank, had 7 figures in the bank account. i'm ont going to get into exact amounts, but the point is, i could have very easily killed myself. very very easily. it was that moment of clairty that i had where i said, backbraker, you are going to die if you do not stop. ther ewas no middle ground. i had too much money to play around with and not using was not an option. it got so bad the dealer would just come to my house like he was going to work lol. he'd pop up about 10:30-11am, with his sack, lol he'd even bring my drug paraphernalia all ready to go. usually would bfring a girl for me to kick it with too. he'd sit and we'd play vidoe games lol or he'd play vidoe games and watch me get high and just keep feeding me dope, then leave about 5-6pm. we idd this for like half a year.


my saving grace, was that I am a born skpetic. i knew the first dahy I walked into aA sommething asn't "right". i might have been a drug addict, but dammit i wasn't stupid, and some of the **** there just didn't make sense.

see, this all goes back to Regan's war on drugs. it has failed. horribly. not only has it failed horribly, it has faked america into thinking they are doing something about the drug problem but they aren't. And it has done so long enough to watch drugs get more and more potent.

When Regan announced his war on drugs, cocaine was the big thing, crack was being experimented with, and hell, as bad as they say crack is, you smoke it, you get high as a kite, it's addictive as hell, trust me, and it made you livve a miserable ilfe, but... at least it didnt', kill you. I mean, you might feel like you want to die sometimese, but you weren't dead.

we have drugs now, that kill you. these pills that no one is doing **** about that are so cool to pop are killing people.

here are the problems that I feel are wrong with the drug program in America

1. stop lying to kids. once you lie to them you lose them forever. and you know what, that's what got me. i never really was a drug head until i touched dope, and i had smoked a few joints before then to know all the BS they taught me in school about weed was not true, I just didn't care for it so I didn't do it. and when the girl i was with brought out the white bag of coke, i figured they were wrong about that too. that's how kid's thing. hell that's how adults think.

cut the fvcking bull**** and legalize weed and be honest with the kids and say hey, if you want to do this in your recreational time, do it responsibility, but this **** right here, this will F you up. like seriously.

2. Get rid of AA. the **** doesn't work. Harvard did a study a few years ago where they found that more people stop using on their own in time (13%) versus people who did s by going to aa (5%).

the courts like AA because it's a cheap method of rehab. but cheap doesn't matter if it does not work.

It's just like gaming a girl. you don't game every girl the exact same. some girls you have to approach differently than others. what got me clean might not get you clean.

what honestly got me clean, was living in an environment where i was monitored for about 5 months and then moving my ass to the west coast where i didn't know any one. since then the few times that i have encounted the drug the cravings have long past. years ago. hell one time

3. look in the mirror and see the real problem for what it is. I'm not stupid or poor. My friends son is a college grad. it's not just poor uneducated people who are hook don drugs. it's ruining society, or at least seriously straining it.

they need to have REAL drug classes in school. bring some ex dealers to the school and tell them all the tricks to the trade. bring some attractive girls there and have them tell all the tricks they had to turn to get their drugs.

this is an issue that i hold pretty seriously to me. getting clean was the 2nd hardest thing i have ever done in my life. i've been clean for over 6 years. one day, one day hopefully within the next 2 years actually as I wish to do so before I'm 30, is to open up my own half way house and target... kids like me. i had hell in rehab. because i'm not poor and i'm not stupid and I had options. not necessarily rich kids but kids that dont' fit into the AA / chem free off the street mantra that they expect everyone to be like.


The "drug community" is a laughing joke. the only thing they care about is getting money off you. they don't give a **** about your livihood, or you having skills to make money so you don't have to turn to crime or drus selling to make a living, they don't care about teaching you serious coping skills. man I remember i used to go to these classes they made you go to when you lvied there, pure BS. no practical skills whatsoever.


everyone here knows someone who has a drug problem. some know some who have died. and we all as a whole turn the other cheek and act like it's not a big deal but this is killing more people than the wars we are fighting, it's taking innonent lives, beucase we are too vain to think we have a problem. we don't want to admit it. well we have a problem.
 

backbreaker

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iqqi said:
look i'm ont going to get in petty politics with you. it's not harmless like alcohol in't harmless. both used excessively can caue long term damages bot the answer is not to make it illegal it's to teach responsibly use.

people like you are why we are damn hooked on drugs. trying to turn something complex into a gotcha quote drive by issue.

you think teenagers gives 2 ****s about your article when they are passing around a joint at a party? what they need to know, seriously know is that while it can have long term effects if abused, you can recreationally use the drug. but when someone comes to the party and breaks out the white bag, that's a whole different ball game, that cannot be long term used recreationally by the vast majority of people. you will get hooked on this and by hooked i don't mean, smoking a joint a day that might be a 100 dollar a month habit, i mean, pawning ****, having hole in your nose from doing too much blow, hundreds of dollars a week, sucking **** for drug habit
people like you piss me off to no end because you are exactly what is wrong with America. with your fvcking studies and your simplistic ass logic to complicated issues. i smoked so much dope one day i was so depressed i thought about jumping into the Arkansas river. beucae i could not keep living like that but i couldn't stop using. where is your damn study that shows where weed does that.

pepole like you have no clue and should not be serious part of the drug issue.
 

iqqi

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backbreaker said:
pepole like you have no clue and should not be serious part of the drug issue.
You have no idea my background in drug "education", so relax Whitney. I know for a fact crack is wack, believe me.

Whether you have the same opinion or not, marijuana IS a gateway drug and it does have long term serious effects. I agree it is on the same level of alcohol. For you to start off your essay here by saying that marijuana should be labeled as harmless and ok is very irresponsible and wrong. Any dumbas$ should know that the powder junk is much worse. You don't need to say MJ is ok, but this powder will really hurt you to get your point across.

For the record I have never done any drugs in my life, and I can say that is from my own personal experiences with the effects that drugs have had on people in my life. Including marijuana.
 

backbreaker

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iqqi said:
You have no idea my background in drug "education", so relax Whitney. I know for a fact crack is wack, believe me.

Whether you have the same opinion or not, marijuana IS a gateway drug and it does have long term serious effects. I agree it is on the same level of alcohol. For you to start off your essay here by saying that marijuana should be labeled as harmless and ok is very irresponsible and wrong. Any dumbas$ should know that the powder junk is much worse. You don't need to say MJ is ok, but this powder will really hurt you to get your point across.

For the record I have never done any drugs in my life, and I can say that is from my own personal experiences with the effects that drugs have had on people in my life. Including marijuana.
did not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

seriously and i mean this with all due repect.. you don't have a fvcking clue what you are talking about. there not an article or a friend you know that can teach you about drugs like being a drug addict can or will. that' the drug war today; non drug user telling people who are addicted to drugs how to get clean. that i why it does not work.


the rest of your blabber i don't have time to dissect i have a son that jut woke up.
 

iqqi

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backbreaker said:
did not take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

seriously and i mean this with all due repect.. you don't have a fvcking clue what you are talking about. there not an article or a friend you know that can teach you about drugs like being a drug addict can or will. that' the drug war today; non drug user telling people who are addicted to drugs how to get clean. that i why it does not work.


the rest of your blabber i don't have time to dissect i have a son that jut woke up.
Yeah, I'm sure witnessing my entire family deal with it from the age of 0 taught me nothing. The deaths, the losses of mental capacity, and even that one FBI or DEA raid (I was too young to know the difference) probably didn't give me any insight at all.

I say I know more than you which is why I have never touched a thing.
 

Ninja Dude

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@iqqi, I feel somewhat qualified to answer your post, being that I recently quit weed. It did not destroy my life at all, but my health was indeed deteriorating, and I knew it. I also knew that my mind was not as sharp as it could be and my life was literally lived in a fog.

That said, I was able to quit on my own without too much of a hassle. I used to be an alcoholic and there really is no comparison. Alcohol was hands down MUCH worse for me. Far more addicting. Far more toxic and life-wrecking. It took me years to quit and I still can't touch a drop of the stuff. Honestly I'd put the destructive power of alcohol closer to cocaine than I would weed. This graphic seems more accurate to me: http://macnomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/comparecht3.gif.

When taken orally, cannabis is actually a powerful healing herb. Our bodies have cannabinoid receptors all over the place, not only the brain but most organs, which is why medical marijuana has been shown to shrink tumors and in many cases completely cure cancers of all types

Lung: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm
Brain: http://health.usnews.com/health-new...ve-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer

Pharmaceutical companies are currently rolling out their own THC-based products based on the success of medicinal MJ. Though I am going through a weed detox now and plan to never smoke it again I do plan on making some magical brownies for the odd special occasion. The stuff is just good for you!

As far as being a "gateway drug" I have to agree with Danger. When you take regulation and stupid criminal laws out of the equation drug use PLUMMETS. Just look at Portugal http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...lization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

So while I can agree that no drug is "harmless" I must also admit that a lot of the stigmas against marijuana and even other psychoactive drugs (mushrooms/peyote/etc) are completely unfounded and based on decades of hype. I also know that many of the drugs which are commercially available and labeled as harmless are actually much worse and dangerous than the illegal ones. Right now over 100,000 Americans die each year from prescription drugs. How many of them die from weed use? I'd say pretty close to ZERO.

About a year ago I lost a good friend to sleeping pills. She was not suicidal at all, just wrestled with insomnia for as long as I knew her. She never touched any other drug and never drank. By contrast her roommate was a party wh-re who took loads of ecstacy, coke and god know what else but she is still ticking. Backbreaker is right - something is seriously wrong with this picture!
 

ArcBound

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I agree with you about the lying to kids part. I remember the first time I tried marijuana and alcohol, I felt that they were overrated and that people made a big deal out of it. If I had access to something above it I would have gotten into them as well but the people I hung out with generally didn't.

Bringing a police officer to talk about D.A.R.E. just isn't cutting it anymore. I know kids that moved from marijuana to dolly to heroin for what sounds like the same reasons you moved up to cocaine. Decriminalizing marijuana would give legitimacy to actually keeping people away from the actual hard stuff.
 

backbreaker

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Ninja Dude said:
@iqqi, I feel somewhat qualified to answer your post, being that I recently quit weed. It did not destroy my life at all, but my health was indeed deteriorating, and I knew it. I also knew that my mind was not as sharp as it could be and my life was literally lived in a fog.

That said, I was able to quit on my own without too much of a hassle. I used to be an alcoholic and there really is no comparison. Alcohol was hands down MUCH worse for me. Far more addicting. Far more toxic and life-wrecking. It took me years to quit and I still can't touch a drop of the stuff. Honestly I'd put the destructive power of alcohol closer to cocaine than I would weed. This graphic seems more accurate to me: http://macnomics.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/comparecht3.gif.

When taken orally, cannabis is actually a powerful healing herb. Our bodies have cannabinoid receptors all over the place, not only the brain but most organs, which is why medical marijuana has been shown to shrink tumors and in many cases completely cure cancers of all types

Lung: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm
Brain: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/04/01/active-ingredient-in-marijuana-kills-brain-cancer

Pharmaceutical companies are currently rolling out their own THC-based products based on the success of medicinal MJ. Though I am going through a weed detox now and plan to never smoke it again I do plan on making some magical brownies for the odd special occasion. The stuff is just good for you!

As far as being a "gateway drug" I have to agree with Danger. When you take regulation and stupid criminal laws out of the equation drug use PLUMMETS. Just look at Portugal http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/07/05/ten-years-after-decriminalization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

So while I can agree that no drug is "harmless" I must also admit that a lot of the stigmas against marijuana and even other psychoactive drugs (mushrooms/peyote/etc) are completely unfounded and based on decades of hype. I also know that many of the drugs which are commercially available and labeled as harmless are actually much worse and dangerous than the illegal ones. Right now over 100,000 Americans die each year from prescription drugs. How many of them die from weed use? I'd say pretty close to ZERO.

About a year ago I lost a good friend to sleeping pills. She was not suicidal at all, just wrestled with insomnia for as long as I knew her. She never touched any other drug and never drank. By contrast her roommate was a party wh-re who took loads of ecstacy, coke and god know what else but she is still ticking. Backbreaker is right - something is seriously wrong with this picture!
yeah i never had that alcohol gene in me, i could and do drink it and put it down but if you have it, boy. i could get away from my problems, you can't. alcohol IMHO is the hardest of all drugs to quit because of that.

part of the problem was that i did not think i was an addict. i had drunk from time to time, no big deal. i wasn't an alcoholic. i had smoked weed a few times, not a big deal. i had even tried a few pills, that wasn't my thi but i did not become hooked at the time. the first time i hit the pipe on the other hand, i knew i was done. people havve to understand that just because you aren't addicted to everything you put in your mouth doesn';t mea you aren't an addict. that was seriously mjy downfall.


io look at my family and my friends.. myself, my odlest uncle, my 2nd oldest uncle, my step uncle on my mom's side, my grandmother, my grandfather, , my other grandfather, all at some time battled drug issues. some made it out.. me, my grandmother, my step uncle.. some didn't, my grand dad, one of my uncles. and that's all uncles and grandparents. that's like 1/3rd of my family. that might be higher than most, but just puts things in perspective. to make matters worse, i did not know anyone in my family had drug issues expect my grandfather who drank like a fish, until after i started using. that's information that would have been pretty important. had i known i was that prone to addictive behavior i never would have picked up. and hell all of them expect my grandfatehr it was crack. i would have definatly not picked that up. and no one talks abpout it beucase it's uncomftable. you just sweep it under the ug and hope no one talks about it and hope it goes away.
 

Deep Dish

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Alcohol prohibition began and ended in incremental steps. Local municipalities and states began passing prohibition laws years before federal prohibition, and states began legalizing alcohol several years before federal prohibition ended. The only thing states could not do during prohibition was have a regulatory framework, and regulation is a crucial aspect to the public acceptance of legalization. When something is regulated it’s controlled, when it’s not controlled it’s chaos, and chaos scares people away. And I do believe in regulation, through taxes, banning advertising, health education, controlled access—balancing usage with public health.

Global drug prohibition is governed by an international treaty, the Single Convention. Any country which decertifies from the treaty, legalizes marijuana, will be voted against on trade policies. The treaty is voted on every decade and the treaty would be abolished if support falls below a certain threshold (I think below 40 countries).

So, marijuana prohibition will take the same incremental steps. Once a state passes a measure, the feds will swoop in and block any regulatory framework, but they cannot touch the removal of criminal penalties. They can send in their agents but they don’t have the resources and so it will be de facto legal. Once enough states have legalized, it will place enormous pressure for the feds to lobby other countries to abolish the treaty, and then the feds could legalize it on the federal level, allowing states to establish much needed regulation.
iqqi:
Whether you have the same opinion or not, marijuana IS a gateway drug and it does have long term serious effects.
Don’t get the arrows of causation mixed up. Literally, by no exaggeration, about 99% of people who try marijuana never proceed onto other illicit drugs. Marijuana is the first illicit drug, but alcohol usage comes before marijuana, and oxygen comes before beer. Is breathing air a gateway drug?

And indulge me, what exactly are the long-term serious effects? “Long-term” as defined by longer than six weeks. “Serious” as defined by realistically achievable. Some studies find “serious” effects only by using enormous amounts like 50 joints a day or whatever, quantities which nobody can realistically achieve. Any effects on cognition or memory are vanishingly small, barely noticeable, and are effectively gone by six weeks. It also increases your lung capacity, in moderation, and there’s no increased risk for cancers. Despite the many carcinogens, it may promote apoptosis (death of old cells) and inhibits angiogenesis (creation of new blood vessels) which are vital for tumors. There’s a slight increased risk of a heart attack, but it’s gone within an hour or two and is comparable to running up a flight of stairs or having sex.
For the record I have never done any drugs in my life… including marijuana.
They don’t call you “Know Nothing Prohibitionists” for nothing. I used to be one, but I wised up.
 

wait_out

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nobody's mentioned the narco-economies in mexico and afghanistan and how much violence they end up visiting on normal people who had the misfortune to grow up around the local mafias.

legalize that sh!t and let the first world take a good hard look at itself.
 

iqqi

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The actual debate of whether MJ is truly harmful or not could get pretty deep, my point is that saying it is completely harmless is false. Going into schools and telling kids that it is totally fine for them to do MJ as long as they don't do crack is misleading IMO.

I think the most dangerous part of MJ is the idea that it is non addictive and harmless. So it's ok to do, all of the time.

Whether or not it should be illegal, that is something else entirely. If it was made legal I think it should definitely have the same consequences as alcohol, such as public intoxication and being over the limit or it being found in your system if you cause an accident should = serious consequences because it shows the person is not "using responsibly". Basically... my entire point from the beginning... is that it should be taken seriously. Is IS a drug, it does cause changes to perception, reaction, and other functions.

My personal experience is that I've definitely seen it lead to other more harmful drugs. I've also seen it used to stave off using more harmful drugs. And also seen that not last long. A lot of people who want to be high and intoxicated WILL move on to more powerful stuff if MJ isn't giving them the high that they "need" and if they are doing MJ all of the time because it is so "harmless". That has a lot to do with addictive personalities moreso than actual drug choice. Sometimes all it takes is that easy access to a drug like MJ, and that great feeling of being high, and then you have a new drug addict looking for a bigger, better high. Which, drum roll please, leads to more harmful SH!T like cocaine, crack, meth, ect.

I'd be lying if I said I thought all drug use should be condemned. I have interest in trying certain hallucinogenic drugs in my lifetime, and am intrigued by creative historical figures who have used to create great works of art. I think the reason I have never touched a thing is because of the terrible things I have witnessed growing up. This includes weed because of the simply stupid things I have seen happen while a person was high (from MJ).

It seems like one of the original points BB was trying to make is that there are other drugs that are way more harmful that MJ which I agree. But I don't think the answer is to give MJ a clean endorsement for recreational use.

As for plain ole MJ use itself, when excessively used by itself and nothing else, I have also seen some pretty sad stuff. I'm not saying it's bad altogether, I think if used for good reason and not abused, then it can definitely be beneficial. However most people aren't using it that way.

Maybe excessive MJ use is why you can't spell anymore, Backbreaker?























:D just kidding don't shoot.
 

Kerpal

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Why don't we cut out the hysteria about drugs, be honest about their effects, and let people decide what to put in their own bodies. If they're still stupid enough to do drugs, let them die on the sidewalk for all I care.

I'm tired of other people making their problems my problems. I have enough to deal with already without having to worry about some crackhead robbing me or a cop detaining me on the side of the road for an hour while he searches my car because he "smelled marijuana" :rolleyes: (just happened to a coworker of mine, the cop didn't find anything because there was no marijuana to begin with, just another fishing expedition).

I guess I just answered my own question though - without drug laws, so many cops, lawyers, prison guards, judges and other people who are useless leeches on society would actually have to get real jobs instead of mooching off the rest of us.
 

Deep Dish

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iqqi:
The actual debate of whether MJ is truly harmful or not could get pretty deep, my point is that saying it is completely harmless is false.
You gave birth to a straw man. If you had done an ultrasound on your pregnancy, you’d have seen your baby is a disfigured bastard.

It’s a straw man argument, which is “to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the ‘straw man’), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.” Nobody in their right mind says it’s “harmless,” and backbreaker did not. It’s relatively harmless, comparatively relative to legally sanctioned drugs, i.e. beer. In the words of DEA administrative law judge Francis Young, “In strict medical terms, marijuana is far safer than many foods we commonly consume.”

The dependency rating is 9%, which is the same as caffeine. Do you worry about Starbucks as a major social problem? God damn these iced chai’s and white chocolate mochas are so fücking tasty!
My personal experience is that I've definitely seen it lead to other more harmful drugs.
Anecdotes of personal experiences don’t make empirical science. Science trumps you. Not even the prolific drug warrior dog Kevin Sabet, former ONDCP policy analyst, who goes around writing prohibitionist columns in the Huffington Post and New York Times, defends the ‘gateway drug theory.’ Police officers are fond of it, but academic scholars they are not. They make the same mistake as you: appeal to solipsistic anecdote. You don’t like things like facts getting in the way of your ideology.
I have interest in trying certain hallucinogenic drugs in my lifetime, and am intrigued by creative historical figures who have used to create great works of art.
So, jumping out of your third-floor apartment balcony while tripping on LSD or shrooms is safer than weed. Note: you can’t use a parachute to soften the landing.
 

backbreaker

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The dependency rating is 9%, which is the same as caffeine. Do you worry about Starbucks as a major social problem? God damn these iced chai’s and white chocolate mochas are so fücking tasty!
somoene has obviously not had an iced caramel macchiato yet
 

Deep Dish

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backbreaker said:
somoene has obviously not had an iced caramel macchiato yet
Touché!
 

speed dawg

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