Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The pendulum is starting to swing back

RangerMIke

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VikingKing said:
Yup. Women shouldnt be able join the marine corps, and it should be all infantry anyways.
I've been in every major US military operation the US has been in since the late 1980s. Panama, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Yugoslavia, Afganistan (as a reservist on active duty) and Iraq (just this past year again as a reservist) all were infantry assignments.

Don't get me wrong... women can fvcking fight. The women in Kurdistan are bad @sses. You threaten their families or try and put them in some enemy inspired sex slave camp, they will kill you @ss deader than sh!t. I saw it in Mogadishu, Yugoslavia, and Afghanistan.

Women just can not serve in US or most Western military Infantry units because the way we fight, our equipment, and our doctrine does not take into consideration the phyisical limitations of women. If all she has to worry about is her rifle and ammo and not all the other stuff we require to fight... and the logistical train is short, AND she is fighting on her own turf she can be one dangerous motherfvcker.
 

VikingKing

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RangerMIke said:
I've been in every major US military operation the US has been in since the late 1980s. Panama, Desert Storm, Mogadishu, Yugoslavia, Afganistan (as a reservist on active duty) and Iraq (just this past year again as a reservist) all were infantry assignments.

Don't get me wrong... women can fvcking fight. The women in Kurdistan are bad @sses. You threaten their families or try and put them in some enemy inspired sex slave camp, they will kill you @ss deader than sh!t. I saw it in Mogadishu, Yugoslavia, and Afghanistan.

Women just can not serve in US or most Western military Infantry units because the way we fight, our equipment, and our doctrine does not take into consideration the phyisical limitations of women. If all she has to worry about is her rifle and ammo and not all the other stuff we require to fight... and the logistical train is short, AND she is fighting on her own turf she can be one dangerous motherfvcker.
Any modern military that could hold its own doesn't cater to women. You know this if you are a ranger man. You also know how rough it is.

This sums it up perfectly I think. http://oafnation.com/2014/03/17/women-in-the-infantry-a-common-sense-analysis/

In its latest push to insert women into combat roles, the Marine Corps is instituting an experimental infantry unit composed of 25% women. The proposed unit, which will mirror a scaled down Marine Air Ground Task Force, will be composed of 460 Marines, 120 of which will be women. Marine leadership along with college researchers will spend months analyzing the experimental unit’s success in what will look a lot like a pre-deployment workup. The goal is to find a “magic number” which will be the ideal ratio of males to females in a combat unit. My question is this: Instead of expending time and limited resources on this “experiment”, why don’t we just apply some logic and common sense to this issue?

I want to first address the issue of this “magic number”. We know men are fit for combat right? There’s no “magic number” for the amount of men needed for a combat effective unit. I know that I can form a unit comprised of 100% men and it has the potential to be combat effective. So if women really are fit for combat, shouldn’t I be able to make a unit composed of 100% women and have the potential for combat effectiveness? If I’m trying to find a golden ratio of women in a unit before it’s no longer combat effective, aren’t I admitting from the start that having women in a unit will degrade its combat effectiveness? If the goal of the military is still to fight and win wars, isn’t pushing women into combat units counterproductive to this goal?



The arguments against women in combat roles that get the most discussion center around the physiological differences between men and women, so let’s talk about that for a minute. It’s hard to explain to the uninitiated the physical rigors of combat, so I’ll use sports as a parallel. We separate genders in sports because we know that men are naturally bigger, stronger, and faster than women. Sure, there are rare occasions when women find their way onto men’s sports teams at the high school, and even more rarely, at the collegiate level. But what would happen if a high school boy wanted to play softball? He’d be denied right? Why would he be denied? Well that’s easy. He’d be denied because softball is a woman’s sport and the fact that he’s a man would give him a gross advantage over everyone else on the field.



When we look at the elite levels of sports, professional and Olympic, there are no examples of women competing with men. I saw a lot of national pride when the US Men’s Hockey team defeated Russia in the winter Olympics. We were proud because as a nation, we assembled the best we had in competition against a foreign adversary and came out victorious. No one cared that there weren’t any women on the team because the stakes were high and we love to win. In what sick and perverted parallel universe are we living, where we place more importance on winning sporting events than we do on winning battles? If we lose an Olympic hockey game, another country gets bragging rights over us. If we lose battles, Americans die.





There’s a lot more to be said about the physiological differences between men and women, but I’m going to forgo those things because they’re not even the best argument against women in combat roles. Surprised? If so, it’s probably because you’ve never experienced combat. Men in combat live like animals. They spend months on end with no showers, no toilets, no electricity. Every day they wake up to the reality of kill or be killed. This intense hardship forges bonds of brotherhood that can’t be explained and can’t be replicated. At times, the relationships these men have with their brothers in arms are quite literally the only thing they have to drive them forward. So what happens to these men who are living at the basest levels of human existence and instinct, when you insert a woman into the fold? What happens to those bonds of brotherhood? Is it realistic to expect them to live and die by their animal instincts, but completely turn off the most powerful instinct that human beings possess? When all the men in a unit are sex deprived they can turn that aggression and frustration towards more productive things like killing.

It sucks, but they’re all in it together and they have better things to worry about anyway. Now what happens if one or two men in a platoon are in a sexual relationship with the women in the platoon? Jealousy? Anger? Envy? Spite? Hate? What does that do to the fabric of that platoon? What does it do to the brotherhood? Infantrymen are about as alpha as men get. They love to kill and they love women. When as a whole, a group of men like this is saying that they want to spend years at a time with no women, they’re saying it for a reason.



I want to end this discussion with a simple thought experiment. I want you to picture the person you love most in the world. Now I want you to picture that person bleeding to death in an Afghan poppy field. You get to pick one of two people to rush into gunfire and pull them to safety. You know nothing about the fitness level, courage level, or experience level of those two people. All you get to know is that one is a man and one is a woman. Which one do you choose to go after the person you love most? Those people who are laying on Afghan poppy fields, bleeding to death. Those are the people I love most. Their lives are too important and too valuable to play social experiments and games with.

-Nocer
Women just want it because they cant have it. Same as like career women, they spend their youth pursuing a career at later feel trapped, they wonder why the cant find a man.

I think its very true that if you look for the most elite engineer, scientists, inventors, nurses, doctors, english majors, the people who are the very best are the men.
 

RangerMIke

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VikingKing said:
Any modern military that could hold its own doesn't cater to women. You know this if you are a ranger man. You also know how rough it is.

This sums it up perfectly I think. http://oafnation.com/2014/03/17/women-in-the-infantry-a-common-sense-analysis/



Women just want it because they cant have it. Same as like career women, they spend their youth pursuing a career at later feel trapped, they wonder why the cant find a man.

I think its very true that if you look for the most elite engineer, scientists, inventors, nurses, doctors, english majors, the people who are the very best are the men.
I agree. I was part of a Task Force in the mid-90s to study what 11 series (infantry) MOS' that women might be able to serve in. We studied EVERY single one from light to mechanized infantry. Everything was summarily dismissed for physiological/medical reasons except for three, which required limited dismounted operation.

BFV TC, BFV gunner, and BFV driver. Basically the Bradley Fighting vehicle crew. These were tested, to pass 95% of the women selected for testing had to be able to successully complete all combat mission essential tasks (MET), which is the standard for all equiptment field by the US Army and USMC.

They did fine on most tasks but what stopped them was reloading and immedate action of the weapons systems. They could drive and shoot just fine, but it was other stuff that knocked them out.

BFV Driver. One MET was the requirement to re-loan the TOW missle launcher. The driver has to be able to lift a TOW over his head and load it in the tube though the back top hatch. This hatch is not big enough to allow a two man operation and the upper body strength to do this successfully did not exist in most of the female soldiers tested.

BFV TC: The requirement to reload the chain gun necessitates that the TC has to have the upper body strenth to lift the chained 25mm rounds up to shoulder height and load it into the feeder so that the rounds can be cycled, there was not enough room to allow for a two man operation. Most women tested could not do this.

BFV Gunner: Immediate action in a jam requires the gunner to lift out and up the gun feeder, the space is too small to for a two man operation and all but one of the women tested failed to get this. This is actually very hard for a man to do as well and truth be told I seriouly doubt 95% of men can do this either, but it is an MET.

The USMC did the same tests on the LAV system with the same results.

It MIGHT be possible for women to serve in these roles but just not in BFV, any future APC would have to be designed with female physical limitations considered. And it is unclear if such design changes would considerations would be efficent or effective, without seriously jepardizing survivability.

A lighter feeder would be more prone to jamming and misfire, as well as increase the probibility of overheating and chamber explosion. Ammunition could be stored closer to the feed tray, but then the ammunition would be more prone to enemy fire and likely set off a chain reaction explosion if a round happens to penetrate the system. A lighter missle system or wider opening for missile reload would make the weapon range and effectiveness, and a larger opeing in the top would negatively impact surviability.

I just don't see any women being able to serve in US Army or USMC infantry units, just not going to happen.
 

MatureDJ

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I remember my lifeguard class (swimming pool, not beach) with the Red Cross when I was age 15 (the lowest age for taking the class.) The instructor was a rather big, muscular - and very high density man - and to pass we had to recover him from the bottom of the pool and swim carrying him so that his breathing would be unobstructed with him (acting) totally unconscious.

Alas, out of our group, every man passed and all but one woman failed. It was pretty comical watching these women struggle carrying him. A few could not even budge him off of the pool floor.
 
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