the old 'I need space, I am not sure what I want' line

[Mr.Fantastic]

This is VERY similar to what I have just been through. I broke with my ex because It was moving fast, after nine months she made lots of noises about kids, moving in together, the future together. Im 23 too and all this made the the most stressed out person ever. Thinking about a life with a girl, seeing her as a wife rather than a girlfriend, deciding on what sort of kids you might have etc makes a man of 23 go 'hold on, what do I really want? I know what she wants, but is this what I want? Have I lived enough yet?'

This does not mean that the man does not love the woman, I loved my girlfriend very much and still do. She is with another man now, which breaks my heart, but I allowed it to happen. To be honest it is doing me up inside, but this is what happened. Sometimes a man does something painful to himself in the knowledge that he will be better off in the future. He means what he said 'I don't know what I want' is what a lot of 23 year old men will say. A girl at the same age? She is looking for marriage and kids, or at least the man that she will have that with in the future. Men...try not to think about all that until they are about 30.

 

[DonJuan11]

A friend of mine has been with her boyfriend for 9 months and it all moved very quickly from the off.

She has 2 young kids (under 5) and he has no kids

He was going to move in with her and has bought her a big expensive fridge and sofa for her place BUT he told her last week that he thinks things are moving too fast and he needs to think about things.

He has told her they are not together as he feels it is not fair dangling her on a string as he does not know what he wants! That is the biggest load of BS i have heard.

I know what I think but I thought I would ask you guys what your take is!

The problem for him is her two kids. He was getting the sex before for free by just being there but now he doesn't want the massive responsibility of taking on a family and support them for the sex.

Take out the two kids = he is sure of what he wants.

 

[Lishy]

She met him today and they had sex, afterwards she asked if they could meet up at the weekend and he said no, but that he could come around at 8 or 9! He is now just using her for sex and it infuriates me!

I could shake her! She needs to let him miss her, she is just turning herself into a fk buddy!

 

[Warrior74]

Lishy, you should invite him here. He's doing what these djs here are suppose to be doing. Don't be mad because she's playing her proper role in the game.

"She needs to let him miss her" what for? So he can go get sex somewhere else? Because that's what's gonna happen.

If she wants a husband she shoulda married her baby daddies or find another man. It's probably done with this guy. She'll probably keep sexing him until she finds someone else.

I have a female friend in this same spot. She loves the sex, but she knows hes not gonna commit. But she can't give up the sex....she pretty much admitted that she's just gonna keep trying in vain until she gives up or finds someone else. Standard procedure innit?

 

[Lishy]

You are sickenenly right Warrior!

He was so full on with her and then Poooooooooooof!

She has to let him go or he will fk her up bad!

 

[LovelyLady]

Of course they are sleeping together. They are trying see if they can find there way back to eachother. This man, in his actions, gave signs of commitment - I highly doubt he is trying to turn her in to a F-buddy at this stage of things.

Matters of the heart are complex. And the longer we live - the more battle wounds we all carry. One reason she is likely going back for the sex (besides the sex itself ) is she is intuitively trying to create the opportunity for him to lead in the physical realm - she wants to preserve that frame for their relationship of him as the leader.

By submitting to him sexually as this may be the only place left she can still feel his masculinity. Why would she try to withhold the one area that is still exclusively theirs to share when she loves this man? She needs to feel this from him, in a primal, physical way - if she is going to be able to remain loyal to him as he takes this space and time that is rightfully his to take.

(If she cannot feel some sense of his innate masculine strength during this difficult time she will eventually recognize that she is having to meet virtually all the "masculine energy" in the relationship - she will eventually decide she is just as well without him. If that is the case, her feminine self will no longer desire him as a recipient of her feminine energy. Her attraction for him will diminish. She will be less interested. And of course her level of commitment to him will as well. But she has not discovered this to be true, not yet.)

She is gauging if he is worth waiting for - of being loyal to.

Understand Lishy - your friend's relationship is in crisis. She has experienced his saying he needs space and time as him saying he is no longer capable of leading. Do you understand what a threat that is to the survival of the relationship?

She needs to find out if this is just a temporary set-back or permanent one, she is watching to see if he will get himself re-aligned -
if he will successfully slay this dragon.

Do you not see what a difficult time your friend is going through? She does not need your judgement - she needs your support.

She is choosing, at this time, to wait for this man - and draw from her own "masculine reserves" within herself. Her ability to function independently when needed is a good "back-up generator" for the relationship.

Of course the relationship cannot survive like his indefinitely. But only she can decide if this man is worth waiting for. She clearly feels he is worth watching and waiting for right now, though. Her decision in this needs to be honored.

She needs to ask what is the true nature of this man: Has he conducted himself in such a way that inspires loyalty in her? Can she differentiate
between interacting with him in a loving way that respects his bounderies he has laid down - but also remain true to herself and not give her heart to a man who is not equipped to receive it and honor it? She must be loyal to her self first if she is to offer any loyalty of substance to him or the relationship. Is he the kind of man that is actively engaged in being a man of his word?

THIS IS KEY: Can he maintain enough masculine center for the two of them to not lose his primary position as the Man while he fights this battle?

See THAT is one of the the real tests at play here. Not if they make love or not.

Now they will both find out if they are each truly compatible/worthy of another level of commitment to each other.

See, a wise woman does not commit indiscriminately. She will gather more critical information about the true character and ability of this man to truly meet her needs as a partner in this "spiritual" situation more than any other.

And this defines her profoundly as well. They are laying the groundwork of how they will handle meeting one of the key needs he has a Man - and that is
his freedom.

This is so incredibly difficult for us women to wrap our minds around - and part of loving a man well is honoring this when everything we understand about what loving is the opposite of this. It stretches us far beyond our limits. Yet this is what they are here to teach us - this is our edge - our abyss that we must face - our dragon that we as women must slay in fighting for our man.

She must ask herself: Does she have a vested interest in supporting/preserving his freedom - this intrinsic masculine need of his that must be honored for him to thrive in his life mission as a Man?

Men equate "freedom" as part of a manifestation of their masculinity - and I am coming to realize I think it is core to the essence of their masculinity. They see other men (and they themselves have experienced) emasculated when they have given themselves to the wrong woman or wrong life circumstances).


It is more than just can he give enough to her that is at question here in his mind - it is also what price will she exact on his freedom - on his life goals - on his inner journey as a Man?

Furthermore, she must try to decipher - is he truly going to war to slay those dragons? Or is he just going? Often only time will tell. And this requires great strength from her heart. And this is where the wisdom for space and time now applies to her as well.

It is no mistake these two people have found eachother. They are both being pushed beyond their present limits of loving - it is important they are supported in this process.

If they need to make love a million times - or never again - it is theirs to make. Please do not belittle her for her decison to try to stay present with him in one of the only ways that may help them make it through this difficult time - there is great power and resources that can help sustain them tobe found in the physical realm.


I do not shame her for going back to the bedroom with him . At one time he was enough masculine energy for her - that she did not have to "be the man" for herself also. That is an incredible gift from him. Regardless of the limited time he offered it or the limit of it's stability. Receiving this gift from a man is no small thing.

She does not want to let that go until she is sure there really is no chance of him finding his way back to being his core masculine self beyond that comfort zone he has.

She is testing right now to see if he is worthy of her loyalty - of the space, or if he is not a man who can get back on his feet and reign again - even more competently before. Unfortuntely, most men can't - and they know it. So then their need for space stops being about freedom/space - but about shame and lack of power. But she will not know unless she gives the realtionship her best. She can always walk away - but staying and waiting -
that takes great substance.

That is why I believe it is so important to see things in a spiritual life journey way. From a place of love and compassion - for her as well.

A Man must maintain his freedom - and it is us as women who must learn to honor this - or we begin to represent a trap. If she is to be with this man in the committed relationship she is saying she was ready for - then this is where the rubber meets the road. Because from here on out - he will be manifesting situations where he needs this freedom - to maintain being the man she fell in love with originally.

A man with a well-developed sense of his masculinity will not choose a partner who impedes this manifestation of his masculinity.

A man with a heightened level of masculinity will require a partner who strives to support him in this aspect of his masculinity to the best of her ability.

She must be mindful of the man she gives her intensity of this level of her feminine devotion to. This is a precious gift to give a man - he must be worthy. Very few women can give at this level and he must be worthy of this quality of hers as well. She must be encouraged to remain true to herself through this process - whatever that means to her.

She will know if, or when, the purpose of the sex changes to simply being a f-buddy and then she will need to decide for herself if that is what she wants or not, as well. You know - she is allowed to make that choice to. These are her choices to make. She is not powerless or less responsible here just because it is his need that has set this dynamic into motion.

She can take this time and space he needs and put it to good use to prepare herself for this next level of relating she is being asked to bring forth in her life as a Woman. She must search: Why does she really love this man?

Also, if he cannot offer up love in a language that gives her a sense of his solidity and devotion even while he is out "slaying dragons", is that acceptable to her? I have not found that an acceptable level of functioning for myself, personally. The trade-off has to be that her needs get met too. It is not one or the other - and it is not 50-50 all the time. Often for relationships to succeed it requires more than 100% on both peoples parts at the same time.

It is possible for a man to meet his woman's needs - and still be free to pursue his "mission" and purpose in life. But it takes an exceptional man.

And it takes an exceptional woman to love well honoring his freedom/masculinity. They must be equally paired.

This is actually a profound blessing that this is happening for them - look at all there is for them to discover about eachother and themselves! There is great potential for loss and pain and disappointment - but there is also potential for something truly profound to be built between these two people. Time will reveal the true essence of what is occuring here. They will need to be patient with eachother. This is big stuff here.

 

[LovelyLady]

Additional thinking I have been doing about this: We women do not do not own these men of ours. Not ever. We are forever required to be releasing them to the freedom that is part of their essence that we love them for - even unto Death itself.

 

[DonGorgon]

She wants space to let another man inside her...
She Knows that what she wants is not you...

Its really simple but still painfull

 

[Warrior74]

Lovely Lady. thanks for translating my words in to girl speak.

*edit* you can't say 'woman ease" on here? This site has to have the dumbest filters ever.

 

[Lishy]

Oh Lovely Lady that was like reading a Barbara Cartland novel, I zoned out after the first 5 paragraphs!

I hear what you are saying but I dont agree!

He has decided he does not want the commitment and she is still allowing him into her bed and then feels used, so how is that good?

The only chance she has of getting him back is by letting him miss her.

All that 'feel his masculinity' is way out! She is panicking and letting him treat her like crap as she thinks its her way back with him!

I am not saying any of this to her, I am just saying it on here as I want to bang her head for her stupidness!

What he is doing is plain to see, he is getting his oats with no responsibility!

 

[Lishy]

She wants space to let another man inside her...
She Knows that what she wants is not you...

Its really simple but still painfull

What the heck?????????

Did you even READ the thread?

 

[DonGorgon]

What the heck?????????

Did you even READ the thread?

Yes i was just stating what it means when a woman says "i need space and i dont know what i want.."

As you were...

 

[Lishy]

Yes i was just stating what it means when a woman says "i need space and i dont know what i want.."

As you were...

Errrrrrrr but we are talking about a MAN saying it and then using the said girl for sex!

Get with the programme!

 

[Warrior74]

What he is doing is plain to see, he is getting his oats with no responsibility!

So sex that doesn't produce children should come with responsiblities? Or in order to continue to have sex he should commit to her and move in with her? Is that your pov?

 

[Interceptor]

Oh Lovely Lady that was like reading a Barbara Cartland novel, I zoned out after the first 5 paragraphs!

I hear what you are saying but I dont agree!

He has decided he does not want the commitment and she is still allowing him into her bed and then feels used, so how is that good?


I dont think Lovely Lady stated anywhere that it was 'good'.
Can you point me to that part? I don't see it.



The only chance she has of getting him back is by letting him miss her.


I would be careful of using the word 'only'.
I think one of the ways would be to not be so available to him.

I do believe they both need space. And I believe that perhaps sex is not the best choice at this time for both.



All that 'feel his masculinity' is way out!

That is your opinion.
And Lovely Lady stated hers.
You both may be wrong. But LL is trying to bring clarity to the situation, not more drama.


She is panicking and letting him treat her like crap as she thinks its her way back with him!


This could very well be true.
If so, it is a disservice to her to let herself be treated in a manner that disrespects herself.
But what goes on in the bedroom between two people is none of our business if it is hurting no one.
And your friend is a grown woman, not a child.


I am not saying any of this to her, I am just saying it on here as I want to bang her head for her stupidness!


She may be choosing the wrong course to take.
But I believe she may be better off being supported and having a good role model lead by example. He issues are hers alone. She is not you.
You've had your share of experiences, but you aren't responsible for hers.
Have you ever thought that maybe she NEEDS to experience this to repair her Personal Boundary??


What he is doing is plain to see, he is getting his oats with no responsibility!

It appears so.
But it is important to recognize that he is not acting alone.
It does take 'two to tango'. She is getting something out of the deal here.

Lishy, we can see your frustration and exasperation. You are very close to the situation, and because of your past expereinces feel this more painfully than others.
But trying to control the situation, add more emotional excitement and drama, and focusing on Blaming people will not get anyone the answers and outcome they will truly want.
No one wants to see their friends 'get hurt'.
And your friend is in a tough predicament.

But she needs clear thinking and support.

Personally, I dont agree with her agreeing to this level of intimacy if what she really wants is an exclusive relationship, complete with him moving in with her.
He really needs to take stock in what he really wants, and she needs to let him do that.And she needs to clear her head form the emotions,and letherself see the situation better.
And IMHO, the sex may be clouding the issue for both. But I could be wrong.
If he is getting satsfaction at her expense, then that is the real problem, not the sex.
This remains to be seen....


But I am not them, and I can't judge or condemn people.

And if your friend is getting some satisfaction that is good enough for her, well then , guess what?

We better get used to it being good enough for us as well.

I dont agree with anyone getting something at another's expense that is not fair or agreed upon. Yes, sometimes there will be times of a 60/40 division or so..but no one should be getting 'hurt' or taken advantage of in the process.
If one is NOT willing to give a certain amount of intimacy, then that person should not EXPECT an even deeper amount from another.

I really hope this works out for them. Even if it means separating. Hopefully they will learn from the expereince, and become better, stronger people.

 

[dannyegg4575]

Romeo & Juliet Theory

I don't know if you know about this theory. Basically it's wanting what you can't have PLUS the excitement and pressure from family and friends telling her NOT to be with him, making her want him more.

She is at a stage where she's enjoying a lot of attention from her friends for telling her about how poorly he's treating her. I don't believe any woman is ever stupid, I do believe that women are strongly emotional creatures.

If you want her to leave the guy, your best bet would be to let her go to him and not care. by your constant badgering her about what she's doing wrong and then letting her come to you and dump on you, you're fueling her to want him more. Her changing her mind will not happen. You're a woman, you should know this better than anybody.

She knows she can't have him, he's a challenge to her now. But it's not up to us if someone's right for her or not. She'll find out herself. All you can do is to let her be.

 

[LovelyLady]

Oh Lovely Lady that was like reading a Barbara Cartland novel, I zoned out after the first 5 paragraphs!

:crackup: Yes, I am a homecooked meal in a drive-thru world.

Let's see if I can paraphrase it for you. (For clarity's sake: "feel his masculinity" is not euphemistic for "feel his ****" )

I hear what you are saying but I dont agree!

He has decided he does not want the commitment

I am still functioning under the belief that what the man said to her is what the man meant because his actions up to this point were consistant with a man who genuinely cares about her.

1. "he thinks things are moving too fast and he needs to think about things."
2. "he feels it is not fair dangling her on a string"
3. "he does not know what he wants"

and she is still allowing him into her bed and then feels used, so how is that good?

Ummm, prior to this post ^you did not say she was "feeling used". I do not think it is ever a good thing to feel used. And men don't feel good about being used, either.

He is not to be used to fill some gap or role in her life as "provider of refridgerator and chair" or whatever.
He can find many women to provide that for.
And the sex - he can find a million women who will spread their legs for him in exchange for payments - cash, credit, or fridge.

He is well aware of this as well.

If I am to believe that she was using their sex to try to get him to ignore his truth (which he clearly stated as noted above) was her primary agenda, then my response is "no". She is not a victim here.

I do believe she feels shame of sort, though. And sometimes shame is the appropriate emotional response to a situation - but I don't think he is the one who brought this to her.

Manipulating people's emotions to meet one's own personal agenda is shameful. To try to use sex to "distract" a man from having his genuine relational needs met is shameful, IMO.

The only chance she has of getting him back is by letting him miss her.

So it is her tactic to accomplish her goal of "getting him back" that you disagree/take issue with, if I understand you correctly?

But you do not take issue with the goal itself?

hmmm.... see, I take issue with that as the goal (discussed below).

All that 'feel his masculinity' is way out!

Yes, it is - isn't it

She is panicking and letting him treat her like crap as she thinks its her way back with him! I am not saying any of this to her, I am just saying it on here as I want to bang her head for her stupidness! What he is doing is plain to see, he is getting his oats with no responsibility!

He has been responsible - he has spoken openly and frankly with what is going on within himself/where he is at/what he needs.

The question is does she want to be the woman who will meet this need of his, or not?

Why should he settle for less?


What is the REAL GOAL HERE?

If she loves him (which you said she does over on loveshack - (yes - I read your posts to try to better understand you )

Then I would ask: WHERE IS THE LOVE?

WHERE IS THE MEETING OF THIS MAN'S NEEDS?

Is loving him well her goal ?- or just holding him in her grips to avoid the pain of releasing him be free - to stay or leave as he needs to. Free to take his time - his space.

If she cannot accept this about him and chooses to manipulate, WHERE IS THE LOVING HIM?

As a friend of hers - I would encourage her to give this man what he says he needs. But not space or sexual witholding as a tactic . But because it is what is required in the loving of him.

There is no shame in that - and no "using" anyone, and no manipulating. There is only space and time - both of which we have no right to take from another person anyway.

:flowers:

 

[Lishy]

I agree LL that she should do what she needs to do to reach her goal. But seeing as it is making her feel bad I think she needs to look at the whole picture.

He is telling her he does not know what he wants, but he sure wants sex on his terms and when it suits him! That is not being fair is it?

IMO he is playing with her emotions and using the fact that she loves him to get what he wants.

I could kick her up the bum for acting like a dumb schmuck and letting him use her and I could kick him in the balls for using my friend like this!

LL I have no problem with you reading any threads I made ant any site x

 

[LovelyLady]

I agree LL that she should do what she needs to do to reach her goal.

ummm.. that isn't what I was saying... please re-vist my post?

But seeing as it is making her feel bad I think she needs to look at the whole picture.

I think you are very wise in this advice to her - I just want to add that a critical piece of the "big picture" that is too often missed is that she examine what her true motives are:
What is the honest nature of her goal?
To hold on to this man and "own" him - have him captive in her apartment to fill a cookie-cutter role of who she thinks he should be?
Or is it to love the man as he is - for who he is?

He is telling her he does not know what he wants, but he sure wants sex

:crackup: of course he does LOL --- and truth be told, Lishy -- SHE wants the sex too. (There is no victim here)

on his terms and when it suits him!

:yes: Yup, he is a man

Added: (around here the men call it "establishing the frame" and it takes on infinite forms as the realtionship changes - but yes, that is what the man does. If you are comfortable in his "frame" you are compatible - if you are not comfortable - you talk about it. But ultimately - he decides if the frame changes. We as women only decide if we can best serve our primary purpose in our own individual lives within his framework. If we cannot, then we do not stay and agree to his frame.

But to think you will find any man who within the innate core of his being does not need to be FREE in the unique way that men need this - is unrealistic. The ones that squelch this whither and die. I encourage you to read what I shared about this with your friend if she decides to give him what he needs - and what he is wise enough to see the relationship needs. Men are not all blubbering idiots following their ****s around you know? Keep the big picture of all the things this man has done "right" up to this crisis - we girls so often live in the moment at hand - "big picture" it that way, too.

That is not being fair is it?

She has choices here, Lishy. She either yields to him to set the speed and direction of the relationship - or she doesn't. That's how it will be with this man, apparently. If she wants to be in charge of the leading of her romantic relationship (or doesn't want to go where he is taking them) - it would seem she needs to face being without him until she finds a man that will be more compatible for her.

If she honestly believes he is using her for sex - but she still chooses to participate as his sperm receptacle - she is choosing that for herself.

Is it loving?
Is it moral?
Is it respectable?
Is it honorable?
Is it healthy?

Those are questions I can explore easily....
but IS IT FAIR? hmmm... is it just?

Well, if she willingly agrees to be that for him it is her right to do this - it is her body, so in that sense there is no injustice being visited upon her as she has agreed to the "transaction". Whether or not you or I would choose that is not at issue - she is within her right to choose it - and learn from the consequences of that kind of choice for herself. But still - she is NOT a victim of his here.

IMO he is playing with her emotions and using the fact that she loves him to get what he wants.

And you have said you think she is using sex to manipulate to get what she wants. There are no victims here if how you see this is accurate.


But Lishy, there is a piece here that needs to be honored and addressed that will heal all of this: Where is the love? THAT is what your friend needs to address. She is functioning from a place of FEAR of loss - not from a place of love. An approach that is free of being agenda focused on profit/loss statistics is important - there is no OWNING a man - so there is no losing. We have only moments of time here on this earth - we share who we are with the people we love - but noone owns us. The love given us - and that we have given - is never "lost". It remains.

She needs to become process oriented IMO. Hold it all up to the bright light and ask "is this the loving thing to do - for my self, for him, for us?"

(I have avoided the topic of the children, but I do wonder much after their well-being. For me - the irresponsibilty of his actively forging a relationship with him as a Father Figure at their ages was irresponsible. And that the Mother permitted this at only 9 months ofknowing a man... Now THAT does makes my blood boil.)