"The Kiss of Death Mistake"
You replay the conversation at 2 a.m. She texted back fast yesterday. Today, nothing. Was that smile friendly or flirty? What did the shoulder touch mean?
Every hour you spend decoding her signals drains your confidence and hands her the controls. Women can sense that insecurity from across the room — and it repels them.
One of the "22 Rules" kills the obsession on the spot: assume she likes you, and act accordingly. Sounds too simple. Works anyway.
Her interest tends to rise to meet your expectations. Psychologists call it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
The *No Contact* Challenge! ( Read this if you just got dumped)
- Thread starter Daydream Engineer
- Start date
"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"
She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.
Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.
The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.
How did you guys survive the first couple weeks?? Could I get some advice on that as I feel those are the hardest. The first 2 days for me went great then from day 3 onwards (day 5 now) its been getting harder and harder and idk what I'm doing wrong!
You are right, I guess if you can see through these disguised texts then she probably can also... if she does she'll probably think I'm nuts by comparing our relationship to a 'truck' and suggesting it can be rebuilt/start over at 0 miles wtf was I thinking!! I do fine all day but right around 4 am it's when it gets bad....Jariel said:
i am at week 6 and i can honestly say I feel GREAT 75% of the time and so-so the rest of the time. I think you just have to ride out the waves early on by staying busy and burning off excess energy. Be social with your friends, stay out of the house! Its gets better, and just not feeling horrible feels great.
It's strange how the mind can lead you into thinking these are good ideas at the time. I used to go about my days obsessing over similar things I could say that might have some influence on her. When I wrote my letter, I purposely mentioned how much her kids loved me, discussed how many things clicked into place just hoping she would read it and think "yeah, he's right. I never thought about it like that before".cgr68311 said:
But as pretty much every single dating coach, pick up artist, experienced sosuave poster and recovering dumpee will tell you, women just don't respond to words or logic. In fact, the less you say, the more they respond.
It's that typical rule of people valuing more what is unavailable. You can take something for granted for most of your life, but the moment it's taken away, you suddenly realise how much it means to you and how much you want it back. This is the key to getting an ex to miss you.
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
Groverz
Don Juan
Finally got my Ex to speak her mind after trying for years. Told her to be open and honest and after 4 days she responded with saying that she has never stayed friends with an Ex and does not want to, said she is seeing someone and feels it would be dis respectful to hang out(I am still friends with all of my exs).
I am a bit hurt by that but really not too bad, months ago it would of killed me but I shurged it off pretty quick this time. She did say that she does not want to know about all the things I am doing and how much I have changed, which she already does know from friends. I asked her why and she said it pisses her off, because this is how she wanted me to be while we were going out, which I was for the first year but then had some issues and was not really me for a while.
Hearing that made me feel a bit better, and I was good with my response I think. Told her I too also wish I was the guy I am now back then because we would still be together and probably be planning some amazing vacation.
I am going on a cruise solo at the end of this week and 1 day at Magic kingdom, I can't freaking wait. I would of loved to have her along and show her a good time but I think I can find some other girls on the boat to show a good time =0.
It's amazing how much better I feel now about myself and everything than I did months ago, she used to have such a grip on me. When i saw a pic of her and her new guy together I felt a tiny bit of pain for like 10 minutes, then remembered all the girls I keep seeing. Still no real connection with them but I am fine with that for now.
Thanks a lot to this board and the guys here, you guys have been a huge help to me and I keep checking on this board almost daily.
I am a bit hurt by that but really not too bad, months ago it would of killed me but I shurged it off pretty quick this time. She did say that she does not want to know about all the things I am doing and how much I have changed, which she already does know from friends. I asked her why and she said it pisses her off, because this is how she wanted me to be while we were going out, which I was for the first year but then had some issues and was not really me for a while.
Hearing that made me feel a bit better, and I was good with my response I think. Told her I too also wish I was the guy I am now back then because we would still be together and probably be planning some amazing vacation.
I am going on a cruise solo at the end of this week and 1 day at Magic kingdom, I can't freaking wait. I would of loved to have her along and show her a good time but I think I can find some other girls on the boat to show a good time =0.
It's amazing how much better I feel now about myself and everything than I did months ago, she used to have such a grip on me. When i saw a pic of her and her new guy together I felt a tiny bit of pain for like 10 minutes, then remembered all the girls I keep seeing. Still no real connection with them but I am fine with that for now.
Thanks a lot to this board and the guys here, you guys have been a huge help to me and I keep checking on this board almost daily.
Day 6 and I've been feeling pretty good all day but missing her quite a bit right now. Really want to contact but I know I can't. I just keep wondering if I'll ever talk to her again. I cut her off when she was still contacting me, on NYE, when we were in the same establishment and she was texting me to see where I was and i just had enough and did not answer. so I'm hoping that left me in a somewhat upper-hand position. This really does suck though.
day 37. well done.thecreature said:
she is thinking the same thing....."I guess I didn't mean that much to him after all"
maintain your next 23 days and then if you still want to say "howdy" do it then.
yesterday was a busy Monday and had the same thoughts intruding into my head. "She never really loved me" "she must have moved on already" "I cant believe she hasn't called" etc.
These are just thoughts and we are doing it to ourselves.
drakeramore
Don Juan
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2011
- Messages
- 54
- Reaction score
- 2
I have been wondering lately about my ex girl (who is currently living in another country with some foreign guy) and about her actions and behaviour and what to make of it all.
I told her I loved her when she was leaving, I unveiled all emotions that were going on in my head, left it all out there in the open for her to see. That happened for only the second time during our one-and-a-half-year on-and-off relationship we had prior to that. Also, a week before she left (I was still being aloof and showing little signs that I am crushed by her leaving) she wanted us to reminisce about some romantic memories we had back in the day - really good stuff that is nevertheless in the past. She then told me she stopped herself from calling me as it was "in the past..." (she used an ellipsis here).
After that I told her we cannot be friends, she gets cold and tells me it would be better off if neither of us writes anymore and I started my NC.
Soon afterwards she started attempting to contact me, ask me how I was etc.
Just now she sent me a holiday card and signed it "with love". In it she says that she still thinks about me, has not forgotten about me and would like to remind me that she is still "alive"
.
When I broke contact last Friday and told her that I accept the fact that she is now happier with another dude and wish her well and that everybody is entitled to their own pursuit of happiness, she was quick to attack me saying smth along the lines of "especially if that everybody has been waiting for years for a certain person (alluding to me) to give them that happiness". ie she started playing the blame game which is odd if she has moved on completely which would be logical as she is living with this new guy after all.
Also, the moment she started distance-dating this new guy we stopped kissing - ie she is not the type to cheat and prides herself on being always faithful to the person she is in love with - ie the new guy at the moment. As she is nearing 30 and wants to start a family, I wonder if she does not love him really but only grabbed him as her only way to fulfill that dream of hers to get married and start a family when she is still young. I am not ready to settle down yet and have let her know repeatedly. Even teased her a little bit about that that she should leave me if she is that desperate to get this right away.
Before she left me she offered me to go visit her in that other country she is now living in (and that the new guy was OK with me visiting - probably he thinks I am just some kind of a good friend - in fact my ex girl convinced herself, I guess, that I am just that on account of my being aloof and a bit detached most of the time). But after I told her I still have very strong feelings for her she changed that.
She now tries to communicate with me in secret, without her new guy knowing about it, I am pretty sure of that. She either texts/emails me from work or from his place but is always in some kind of hurry or writes late in the evenings.
Anyway, I am about to move on as I should have done from the get-go but I am wondering.
What can be inferred from her behaviour - does she miss me or what? I know I should not give a fvck about it but, in a way, it feeds my ego to think that she does. Why the hell would she be trying to contact me, send postcards for the holidays if she knows I am hurting and this kind of thing only complicates things.
Is she genuinely feeling smth for me still or is she simply feeling guilty for breaking my heart the way she did?
When she left we had been on a hiatus but still we had promised to each other to communicate and to let the other one know if some new guy/girl pops into the picture. She did not do that. I guess her actions speak that she did not care. Now, she seems to do care.
It all started when my mother, trying to get my spirits up and to cheer me up, told me that there would be no way that she would be over me this quick if she really loved me and that there is no way that new guy is that great when compared to me.
Which does get part of my confidence back but also starts giving me hopes again. Hopes that she will come back to me and I will have the chance to break her heart in turn by rejecting her advances.
Because I cannot imagine taking her back now that she has slept with a new guy regularly and done all things that she used to do with me. I am jealous and would not be able to forgive.
Logically, either way, I still just need to move on and forget about her.
But I cannot help it but ponder on these things from time to time and my inner peace is hard to obtain these days, I have become quite emotional and even have a hard time not crying when watching some emotional scene in a movie I happen to watch.
It is hard, I admit I still love her. I want to say it somewhere so I am saying it here.
Still though, it is bearable, it is nothing compared to the first two weeks of NC. It does get better. Also, the holidays were kind of a rough time but I more or less managed so that also kind of boosted my confidence, I managed to reconnect with my family a little bit as I live away from them.
So there is some positive things happening following my heartbreak. Because your family (if it is a normal and healthy one) will always be there for you and will support you. Friends and women can go their own way and can forget you exist but family will be there for you.
I told her I loved her when she was leaving, I unveiled all emotions that were going on in my head, left it all out there in the open for her to see. That happened for only the second time during our one-and-a-half-year on-and-off relationship we had prior to that. Also, a week before she left (I was still being aloof and showing little signs that I am crushed by her leaving) she wanted us to reminisce about some romantic memories we had back in the day - really good stuff that is nevertheless in the past. She then told me she stopped herself from calling me as it was "in the past..." (she used an ellipsis here).
After that I told her we cannot be friends, she gets cold and tells me it would be better off if neither of us writes anymore and I started my NC.
Soon afterwards she started attempting to contact me, ask me how I was etc.
Just now she sent me a holiday card and signed it "with love". In it she says that she still thinks about me, has not forgotten about me and would like to remind me that she is still "alive"
.When I broke contact last Friday and told her that I accept the fact that she is now happier with another dude and wish her well and that everybody is entitled to their own pursuit of happiness, she was quick to attack me saying smth along the lines of "especially if that everybody has been waiting for years for a certain person (alluding to me) to give them that happiness". ie she started playing the blame game which is odd if she has moved on completely which would be logical as she is living with this new guy after all.
Also, the moment she started distance-dating this new guy we stopped kissing - ie she is not the type to cheat and prides herself on being always faithful to the person she is in love with - ie the new guy at the moment. As she is nearing 30 and wants to start a family, I wonder if she does not love him really but only grabbed him as her only way to fulfill that dream of hers to get married and start a family when she is still young. I am not ready to settle down yet and have let her know repeatedly. Even teased her a little bit about that that she should leave me if she is that desperate to get this right away.
Before she left me she offered me to go visit her in that other country she is now living in (and that the new guy was OK with me visiting - probably he thinks I am just some kind of a good friend - in fact my ex girl convinced herself, I guess, that I am just that on account of my being aloof and a bit detached most of the time). But after I told her I still have very strong feelings for her she changed that.
She now tries to communicate with me in secret, without her new guy knowing about it, I am pretty sure of that. She either texts/emails me from work or from his place but is always in some kind of hurry or writes late in the evenings.
Anyway, I am about to move on as I should have done from the get-go but I am wondering.
What can be inferred from her behaviour - does she miss me or what? I know I should not give a fvck about it but, in a way, it feeds my ego to think that she does. Why the hell would she be trying to contact me, send postcards for the holidays if she knows I am hurting and this kind of thing only complicates things.
Is she genuinely feeling smth for me still or is she simply feeling guilty for breaking my heart the way she did?
When she left we had been on a hiatus but still we had promised to each other to communicate and to let the other one know if some new guy/girl pops into the picture. She did not do that. I guess her actions speak that she did not care. Now, she seems to do care.
It all started when my mother, trying to get my spirits up and to cheer me up, told me that there would be no way that she would be over me this quick if she really loved me and that there is no way that new guy is that great when compared to me.
Which does get part of my confidence back but also starts giving me hopes again. Hopes that she will come back to me and I will have the chance to break her heart in turn by rejecting her advances.
Because I cannot imagine taking her back now that she has slept with a new guy regularly and done all things that she used to do with me. I am jealous and would not be able to forgive.
Logically, either way, I still just need to move on and forget about her.
But I cannot help it but ponder on these things from time to time and my inner peace is hard to obtain these days, I have become quite emotional and even have a hard time not crying when watching some emotional scene in a movie I happen to watch.
It is hard, I admit I still love her. I want to say it somewhere so I am saying it here.
Still though, it is bearable, it is nothing compared to the first two weeks of NC. It does get better. Also, the holidays were kind of a rough time but I more or less managed so that also kind of boosted my confidence, I managed to reconnect with my family a little bit as I live away from them.
So there is some positive things happening following my heartbreak. Because your family (if it is a normal and healthy one) will always be there for you and will support you. Friends and women can go their own way and can forget you exist but family will be there for you.
Honestly, depending on whether it's your ego or love7 that's causing this, imho it would not matter who had the upper hand. I first dumped my ex the first time (6 weeks ago) only to come back to her (which she accepted, then dumped me 3 weeks later) because to be be honest, dumping her made me not only miss her but also question my decision.RJ92156 said:
"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"
When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.
Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.
Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.
The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.
Good, say it here and stop thinking. Your weakness is that you don't have options right now so your hamster is running like hell. Find new chicks. Or find a new hobby, or enjoy new activities, whatever. A couple of points to make thoughdrakeramore said:
1) never listen to women's advise on dating/relationship.
2) you claim you're in love with a girl that dumped you, lbjf'd you and tries now to blame you? where's your self-respect? Sorry I forgot, she lives with another dude. WTF?
3) why didn't you delete her number? do you want to continue to feed her ego?
drakeramore
Don Juan
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2011
- Messages
- 54
- Reaction score
- 2
Actually my mother's advice was to let my ex go and forget about her asap and keep the NC going, that she has moved on and I should too. I guess she just wanted to cheer me up seeing how down I was at that particular moment.
I had deleted her number.
She tried to call me last Friday so that is how I re-obtained it.
I have deleted it again now.
You are right though, I should not be in love with her anymore. Funny thing emotions, you cannot control them.
I want to just forgive her in my head and never look back and get rid of this stress and heaviness in my heart/stomach for good.
I guess I need more time though. And yes, new chicks in my life. I fell for the idea of THE ONE, how very naive and romantic on my part. What can I do, that is me - a bit idealistic.
After this experience, this will change though.
Thanks for the advice, it is appreciated.
I had deleted her number.
She tried to call me last Friday so that is how I re-obtained it.
I have deleted it again now.
You are right though, I should not be in love with her anymore. Funny thing emotions, you cannot control them.
I want to just forgive her in my head and never look back and get rid of this stress and heaviness in my heart/stomach for good.
I guess I need more time though. And yes, new chicks in my life. I fell for the idea of THE ONE, how very naive and romantic on my part. What can I do, that is me - a bit idealistic.
After this experience, this will change though.
Thanks for the advice, it is appreciated.
This afternoon is definitely hard. I think I'm realizing that even if she does contact me there's no way I could take her back and forget about certain things she's done in the past---manipulation, playing games. Of course, I understand that she didn't choose her feelings<---- they were a result of me becoming needy and basically acting like a *****.
Lots of mixed emotions between wanting her back/hating her guts/and wondering if I could even allow myself to go back with her.
Lots of mixed emotions between wanting her back/hating her guts/and wondering if I could even allow myself to go back with her.
yellowfever
Don Juan
Day 9
I know why she left. She lost respect for me. I should have seen it coming and changed my ways.
I have to grow and improve myself and do better next time.
I'd still love to take her back but I don't know how to do it. once respect is gone, it would be difficult to return. Is it possible earn respect from an ex?
Same for trust. I trust her but I am suspicious. I don't like the feeling. I let her take advantage of me too much and I was way toooo nice to her.
I had someone over last night. She tried hard but I could not stop thinking about my ex. She wants to stay over again tonight. At this moment, it's ok with me and is better than being alone. I told her about my ex and I think she understands but we don't have much communication together. Google translate helps but is not perfect. Also fine by me, I don't really feel like talking with her too much. That's not her purpose in my life at this time.
I know why she left. She lost respect for me. I should have seen it coming and changed my ways.
I have to grow and improve myself and do better next time.
I'd still love to take her back but I don't know how to do it. once respect is gone, it would be difficult to return. Is it possible earn respect from an ex?
Same for trust. I trust her but I am suspicious. I don't like the feeling. I let her take advantage of me too much and I was way toooo nice to her.
I had someone over last night. She tried hard but I could not stop thinking about my ex. She wants to stay over again tonight. At this moment, it's ok with me and is better than being alone. I told her about my ex and I think she understands but we don't have much communication together. Google translate helps but is not perfect. Also fine by me, I don't really feel like talking with her too much. That's not her purpose in my life at this time.
important milestone
I think your mixed emotions are a great sign. We all start NC with the intention of making her miss us and spend each day waiting for that call.
At some point, with a little bit of distance and introspection the pedestal we put the ex on begins to settle and crumble.
I used to think NC is a success at the point where you really don't give a fvck if she calls or not. Now I believe NC is successful when you reach the point where you feel your ex would need to earn her right back into your life.
Now, if she calls you are probably not going to jump into talking to her, instead you will hang back and see if she is really working to get back with you.
That's a good place to be, a lot of us are in the situation we are in because we stopped requiring our ex to earn our affection and became supplicating and needy.
RJ92156 said:
I think your mixed emotions are a great sign. We all start NC with the intention of making her miss us and spend each day waiting for that call.
At some point, with a little bit of distance and introspection the pedestal we put the ex on begins to settle and crumble.
I used to think NC is a success at the point where you really don't give a fvck if she calls or not. Now I believe NC is successful when you reach the point where you feel your ex would need to earn her right back into your life.
Now, if she calls you are probably not going to jump into talking to her, instead you will hang back and see if she is really working to get back with you.
That's a good place to be, a lot of us are in the situation we are in because we stopped requiring our ex to earn our affection and became supplicating and needy.
"Stop Asking Your Friends What to Text Her"
Your buddy Dave has been single for three years and thinks "hey u up" is a valid strategy. Your other buddy Mike just got dumped and told you to "just be yourself."
You showed them her text. You asked them to decode the emoji. You drafted four responses and sent the screenshot to the group chat for a vote.
She's been waiting forty minutes.
Put the phone down. Stop crowdsourcing your love life. Type something that sounds like you. Hit send. Then go do literally anything else with your evening.
yellowfever said:
If you don't say a word to her for 60 days her imagination will go wild and she will just assume your somehow different. She will assume you have a hotter better girlfriend than her. For those of you guys who have been especially accommodating or needy with your ex take heart in the idea that your sudden silence will seem particularly uncharacteristic and therefore really spin up the wheels of her imagination.
love...
I see a lot of posts today about guys rather sheepishly admitting they still love their girlfriends.
I don't anybody needs to be shy about this. the guys that give the hardest but perhaps best advice on this board (im thinking of joker and mikey) also very much loved their girlfriends.
I still love mine.
I am however trying to remind myself that when men and women say I love you it often means two different things.
I encourage you guys to read this seminal post on rationalmale.com
http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/
I see a lot of posts today about guys rather sheepishly admitting they still love their girlfriends.
I don't anybody needs to be shy about this. the guys that give the hardest but perhaps best advice on this board (im thinking of joker and mikey) also very much loved their girlfriends.
I still love mine.
I am however trying to remind myself that when men and women say I love you it often means two different things.
I encourage you guys to read this seminal post on rationalmale.com
http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/27/women-in-love/
My ex just called me...funny thing is that I was on my phone and accidently decline on the spot (i was clicking where the decline button appear right before it showed up!). Guess that's fate for me to have not picked it up huh? Lol she messaged me afterwards saying it was a pocket dial.
Thoughts? Was it actually or an attempt to get me thinking of her again? I'm tempted to respond to her text but don't think I will
Thoughts? Was it actually or an attempt to get me thinking of her again? I'm tempted to respond to her text but don't think I will
yellowfever
Don Juan
Thank you Bateman for your insight and kind words.bateman72 said:
I lovedher too much and verbally said it many times each day. I could not believe my joy in being with her!
She rarely said I love you (perhaps once a week) as she said it was not normal for Vietnamese girls to say such things. I could feel it mostly when she was in tune with the relationship and when she would tune out (on her phone) it was not good.
From the link one of the commenters wrote:
This spells out exactly why a man should seek a woman’s respect, and not her love. The more respect and power she gives him, the better he can love her.
I lost her respect, she did not love me anymore. Although I hope she misses me and will come back to me, it's going to be hard. I'm going to move on and find someone else (living in Asia is great for this!) but it may be too hard to replace her. What an awesome girl and what a terrible result. I blame myself but I should not beat myself up. It takes 2 to get in this situation.
I know she waits for her ex who is overseas but at the same time she is contacting another 'suitor' whom has caused us troubles in the past. HMMMM, if only I can tell each of them of the other in her life, maybe I can kill 2 birds at one time?? I'm pathetic in my thinking but I don't want to give up hope. I would do my best to the end of my days for this woman and I would not ever give up.
"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.