The nice guy narration we all fall for

[Pumax]

So there's this assumption that women don't like nice guys.
Or better, that women use those nice guys, and then dump them.
Or better, that nice guys finish last.
The entire internet takes responsibility to say that if you're a good guy, then it's over for you.
In reality, the natural, genuine nice guy with a backbone is a rare person.
By his nature, he will be drawn to relationships with healthy people.
I think, in the end it all boils down to a simpler matter...


Think about it:

a) a woman raised by a great father, a good man, with a backbone, social, and friendly with everyone, supportive, emotionally stable, resourceful and with good communication. (integrity/safe)
b) a woman raised in an environment where her father was a man of value, successful in his fields, an alpha, popular with women, emotionally unstable, making his confidence and relationships with people. (Unsafe/Unreliable)



Now, let's say you have two options to choose between those two women.
Both are attractive to you. But they're completely different, aren't they?
If you're healthy man, or if you received a negative imprinting, had toxic education, but eventually grew up and did understand healthy is value, you'll go hands down for the first woman.

So, If you want to use push and pull, denial, and other techniques, go ahead. If it comes naturally to you, even better.
And expect damaged women to be attracted by you.

 

[Clockwerk50]

A nice guy is the opposite of a good guy. A nice guy is full of covert contracts, where he gives time, attention, or kindness with an unspoken expectation of something in return. When that expectation isn’t met, he feels resentful or confused. As an example, a nice guy will let themselves be doormat with the expectation that he will get whatever he wants from her.

I think the right terminology you are looking for is a good guy.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

The problem is people confuse a "Good Guy" with a "Nice Guy" and they are completely opposite things.

The Nice Guy is willing to lose all his values and principles to be in agreement with the woman and often is seen as a doormat. This is the guy trying to spend lots of money on women at fancy restaurants and buy them things so they will have sex with them.

They often get upset at the women for "taking advantage of them" when their strategy fails(which it usually does). They simply use a different form of manipulation and come off as not authentic.

The Good Guy is simply a nice person who treats others well, not because he expects anything in return , but because that's just who he is.

However, he is not afraid to voice his displeasure with the woman, call her out on her BS or walk away when warranted. He is essentially the gold standard for most women combining the best traits of the Nice Guy and the Bad Boy into one person. Most women marry this man when they find him and won't dare let him go.

 

[The Duke]

@Pumax , Your analysis is too black and white and leaves out the fact that there is a little devil in even the best women. You forget the primal desire that factors into attraction. Figure out how to ignite those triggers and you can have the most stable/rational woman on the planet doing dirty things within a few hours of meeting her, all while being a GOOD guy.
And nice guys are the true manipulators.

Assertive men that take the lead is what makes panties wet. Its universal. They are all attracted to men that are a little dangerous. Emotional Stable or not.

Well behaved men don't generate the tingles between her thighs. Thats what the dance between men and women is all about. Just dating, or married, it doesn't matter.

Even our resident house mom still likes guys with an edge. @BeExcellent I find her to be a very emotionally stable personality.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The entire internet takes responsibility to say that if you're a good guy, then it's over for you

Big difference between a "Nice Guy" and a genuinely honorable man

 

[RoadKing_Rabbit]

The 'nice guy' as you describe his character never steps up to the plate. He never antes up, never sets his feet on the chock blocks, never saddles up, never toes the line, never baits the hook. He doesn't finish last, because he never plays, hunts, or fights. As such he can't ever finish at all. Think a woman doesn't want at least some degree of fantasy fulfilled? She may swear up and down on her ancestors, on her pantheon of gods that she 'just wants to meet a nice guy.' She's already met them. They didn't captivate her heart or 'win her over.'

She wants a man who won't cower from another man stepping in on you or your family. She wants to know you are capable of competition against other men who ARE these 'nice guys' that do whatever they're told to do while you not only bring home the bacon, but get advancement opportunities or maintain your curious and aggressive drive. She wants to know that you are indestructible against anything she could ever do to you, moods, objections etc... This doesn't mean you have to put up with a screeching banshee. Far from it. She also needs to know that you're fine without her. AND her attitude. For every woman that brings attitude, there's another lady won't be bringing the attitude and instead bakes your favorite cookies.

I could go on and on, but this Hollywood prince charming paragon nice guy mumbo jumbo will never work. No matter how much we believe it should or want it to. The truth is that the world is unforgiving and unyielding. A man must be more so if he wants to have any semblance of agency over his destiny. Let alone the destiny of a woman who will remain by his side. Let alone a family's destiny depending on him to lead them!

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

As noted by @The Duke I require "edge" in a man. Edgy men are some degree or other of no fvcks given in the way they exist in the world.

Someone who is immovable in resolve in many ways. My husband is like this; so too was my father, although they are different men.

My husband does spoil me at times. But I always appreciate his favor, as he does mine.

 

[BadBoy89]

Figure out how to ignite those triggers and you can have the most stable/rational woman on the planet doing dirty things within a few hours of meeting her, all while being a GOOD guy.

How is a man supposed to "figure it out"?

Assertive men that take the lead is what makes panties wet. Its universal. They are all attracted to men that are a little dangerous. Emotional Stable or not.

Well behaved men don't generate the tingles between her thighs. Thats what the dance between men and women is all about. Just dating, or married, it doesn't matter.

Even our resident house mom still likes guys with an edge. @BeExcellent I find her to be a very emotionally stable personality.

I find the advice on Sosuave is decent, but its alot of abstract stuff. It leaves alot of room open for interpretation.

"Ignite triggers"
"Figure it out"
"Be dangerous"
"Have an edge"

I read that and think "What? Go get arrested to attract a non virgin woman?"

 

[RoadKing_Rabbit]

***TLDR; Not all of this is a direct reply to you "BadBoy89," but also a bit of explanation to a newcomer who has no clue about those nuanced statements you've picked, which are the same ones all too many of us have had to work past. You may have been hinting at that all along. I'm relatively new here and I'm just STARTING to get a feel for who knows what and how well.***

How is a man supposed to "figure it out"?

By having enough experiences, both successful and unsuccessful to know how to identify certain 'triggers' and then act on them. The objection "But I don't want to just 'play' women, I want to find one" probably arises. Some of these triggers are actually fun for the guy too! Oh, lord are they. But how will you know which ones you naturally like and which ones you don't without any practice? Once you know how to respond to certain triggers, you'll learn which ones you absolutely can't stand and also which ones are fun for you! This will HELP and not hurt in a relationship.

"I find the advice on Sosuave is decent, but its alot of abstract stuff. It leaves alot of room open for interpretation."

"Ignite triggers"
"Figure it out"
"Be dangerous"
"Have an edge"

"Ignite triggers" - It's vague, yes but everyone has something... Think "Bacardi 151." I hear that and UGH... My favorite at the moment is "Are you arguing with me?" when she challenges an idea of mine or is actually arguing. Works like magic with the right woman. I also enjoy saying a very sharp "NO." Before she even finishes asking me a question. It's super fun/funny.

"Figure it out" - This one shouldn't be vague, but I understand how it can be. Seek experiences. NOT outcomes. The more you create experiences, the more those will lead to outcomes anyway. The cringe "FAFO" personified.

"Be dangerous" - A loaded gun is dangerous. But it still has to be fired. A keen kitchen knife is dangerous, but you can pick it up by the blade. Unless there is movement, it doesn't cut. I'm a very dangerous man, (I hate to sound braggadocios) but I've had enough training and have developed certain discipline and self control to keep it contained. Women seek it out instinctively. It makes sense. Think about it. If an arsonist or assault/battery related convict's actions are known to this woman, he's already proved to society he can commit to such an act. He probably won't hesitate to step on someone's neck after slapping them out on the pavement to protect her. Get experience in a martial art and do a "Mr Miyagi" 'lesson' with her and give her a SMALL TASTE of what you could really do. GREAT way to break the kino barrier by the way. And does it ever get them excited.

"Have an edge" - Imagine you're sick of hearing about her story on what the jones's are doing about X-y-z. So you immediately pick her up and carry her to the couch and sit her down. Or to a different room on a different piece of furniture? hehehe.

You're tinkering on a project you want to finish and you hear, "Come to bed!" to which your reply is "When I'm damned good and ready!" or maybe it's non verbal. Like a risk taking, adventurous nature. Riding a motorcycle without a helmet (Stupid by statistics and against all reason), fencing without gear (same), or most recently for me, chopping and cutting wood while repeatedly refusing to use gloves, power tools or a chainsaw. Every time she asks me if I want to use something that makes a task "easier" I make a fist and show her my forearm while asking "Do you like these? Nod your head yes. Uh-huh! No, no I will not use ___." "Edge" is that part of your personality that won't be blunted by a woman's critique or her curiosity.

"I read that and think "What? Go get arrested to attract a non virgin woman?"

Chances are, even if you met the prerequisite, you'd need the accompanying stupidity and manipulative mindset of "Well, I got arrested again. This is BS. I'm going to have to find a girl to shack up with and convince her to give me some food. Maybe she'll let me use her phone to see how Jennifer is holding up after my arrest?" Face full of tats might help too. This is something that used to be annoying and ager inducing in me. Now it is just amusing. The kinds of ladies who flock to men like that like are naught but trouble unless you happen to be a man like that of course. So why be envious? Doesn't make sense. Probably safer sticking your d1ck in a toaster.

OR... Perhaps you can try to make so many mistakes things start to make sense. One persons answers wont be another's. That's the beauty of it. If you don't quit, you can figure it out. It's about keeping yourself honest and growing past what your honestly appraised shortcomings are. Most men are stuck in step one. "I know all this other stuff, I just need to work on ___." And then proceed to show people that they really don't know "all that other stuff."

 

[Manure Spherian]

Every good man is nice. The supposed distinction is an edgelord/wannabe-bad@ss meme. Likely all who know me describe me as nice and good.

 

[The Duke]

How is a man supposed to "figure it out"?

I get where you are coming from, good question. It's a hard one to answer in much less abstract terms but I will try.

Developing good listening skills, awareness, and strong empathy is where it starts. Interpreting body lanuage correctly is helpful as well.

Template for Conversation:

1. Overall goal: What are they trying to achieve in life?

2. Agenda: What makes them tick? What do they want in the current interaction?

3. Identity: How do they see themselves?

4. Problems and worries: What issues do they face and what do they fear?

5. Values: What is important to them?

When you are on a date with a new girl, don't make it about yourself. Make it about them. When you do, they open up more and tell you who they are which will allows them to feel like you understand them and that connection starts to develop. When a girl tells you "it seems like you know everything about me", you have done a good job. What has always led my dating success is my desire to truly get to know someone and figure out what makes them who they are.

Many of you guys put down Psychology, the Myers Briggs Personality Test and the 5 Love Languages, but understanding the basis behind those can really help you understand people better. What they do help you disect and group personality traits together to help you figure out someone faster. Same thing to a lesser degree with basic astrology signs which girls love to talk about but guys scoff at.

Your preconceived notions blind you and keep you from seeing things clearly. Just because you don't understand it and don't want to doesn't mean its bogus.

I used to spend a lot of time in $trip clubs and spending money was not my idea of a good time so I learned to use the power of conversation to attract and keep girls sitting on my lap for extended time periods. I've had some amazing conversations with half naked girls on my lap that I never knew before our first encounter. Some of these led to a solid connection, and a few I ended up dating. I steered every one of these interactions from "do you want a lap dance", to "we have some good energy going here" and those women loved it.

How does one figure it out? The exact same way you do everything else that leads to becoming an expert.

Educate. Practice. Apply.

"Ignite triggers"
"Figure it out"
"Be dangerous"
"Have an edge"

I read that and think "What? Go get arrested to attract a non virgin woman?"

Your interpretation is likely off because you are too literal and rational. Push yourself to see things deeper and beyond.

A man with an edge:
Non-follower, risk taker, intense, high expectations, bold, confident, mysterious.

A dangerous man:
One that is the true essence of masculinity and doesn't hide it. Rebellious. Doesn't follow the rules.

 

[The Duke]

Every good man is nice. The supposed distinction is an edgelord/wannabe-bad@ss meme. Likely all who know me describe me as nice and good.

Do you ever ask them to tell you what nice and good means to them?

 

[BeExcellent]

A man with an edge:
Non-follower, risk taker, intense, high expectations, bold, confident, mysterious.

A dangerous man:
One that is the true essence of masculinity and doesn't hide it. Rebellious. Doesn't follow the rules.

I concur with what @The Duke has posted, and I think it can be boiled down a bit further to this:

Unpredictability.

What is more exciting? A faithful plow horse or sweet pony that reliably does the job day in and day out, or the hot blooded high strung Thoroughbred or Arabian that may win a race or a show and is beautiful, but might kick you or refuse to cooperate for no particular reason.

The hot blood is more exciting. That is edge. It is a certain defiance in living life. It is a chip on the shoulder, an "Oh yeah? Watch this...." and it encompasses a certain devil may care attitude often combined with unwavering commitment to a decision, right or wrong.

If an edgy man is compliant he is playing ball, biding his time, he is only doing what he chooses to do, because he wants to. Not because of a social construct or color inside the lines expectations.

He's going to say no, he's not going to put up with crap, and he's going to be fine with being that ass hole, but in a controlled way.

And he will NOT be controlled. He is not a pvssy.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What is more exciting? A faithful plow horse or sweet pony that reliably does the job day in and day out, or the hot blooded high strung Thoroughbred or Arabian that may win a race or a show and is beautiful, but might kick you or refuse to cooperate for no particular reason.

Recall reading awhile back ( https://www.pilotonline.com/2006/05/03/why-do-women-love-sheik-romances-even-after-911/ )that sales of Sheikh-themed romance fiction QUADRAPULED after 9/11. That's how acute the typical heterosexual woman's draw to a man who exudes danger and rough edges is... Fellas who resembled the men who slaughtered over 3,000 people in the space of 10 minutes* still had panties drenching/Remained far more desirable than the shaggy haired Berkely grad who publicly declared himself an Intersectional Feminist


*I suspect if Hollywood(Or anyone else, really)were to invest in a series about Al Quaeda told from the viewpoint of men immersed in that lifestyle, ala. "Brigatta's" portrayal of RedFellas

, it would have an exceptionally strong female fan base