Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The new role model is a beta male.

Vulpine

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azanon said:
So again, let the TV shows train the masses of guys to be "girly men". That just leaves more for us!
Well, I can see you have a certain "alpha" streak in you.

But, don't you feel just the slightest bit inclined to help "men" out as a whole?

Especially considering that "better quality" men on average will demand "better quality" women?

You know, "raising the bar"?
 

Master Bates

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Nighthawk said:
I've heard more women saying they find Stan Marsh's dad in South Park sexy (true!).
Randy's the best tv character in history.
 

Vulpine

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Master Bates said:
Randy's the best tv character in history.
According to you.

Ward Cleaver makes that douchebag look like Barney Fife.
 

azanon

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Vulpine said:
Well, I can see you have a certain "alpha" streak in you.

But, don't you feel just the slightest bit inclined to help "men" out as a whole?

Especially considering that "better quality" men on average will demand "better quality" women?

You know, "raising the bar"?
I'm sort of split down the middle on that point. On the one hand, I actually do help some close friends on these sorts of things, and I hope that at least occasionally, I say something here that someone finds helpful and/or useful.

But on the other hand, I do like the feeling I have of being "in-the-know" or the so-called "secret club". And quite honestly, I've come A LONG way towards improving since Ive studied seduction sites as of 2-3 years ago. If the masses pick up these same skills, then I will have to beat them at their own game strictly on genuine merit (which I should be able to do in many cases anyway), for a lack of a better term.
 

Vulpine

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azanon said:
I'm sort of split down the middle on that point.
I'm there myself, but I'm pushing myself to take the higher road...

...and not go banging dude's wives and such, lead by example, greater good, all that mush.

I'd rather just laugh off feminist crap, believe me, but that is essentially what all these chump-azz beta's do: roll over.

So this garbage goes on and on without resistance, and men as a whole continue to be more like women.

Yes, more for us, but this also means "more crap for us to deal with" from the same surplus.

So, it's a double-edged sword.
 

BobFuest

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"He's a guy who isn't concerned with status,"
That rings true to me the most. the less we are concerned with HOW we are suppose to be, the better off we will be. The biggest part of me leaving this site was that, in essence, it is a list of rules to follow. You are still following until you grow up and pave your own way. To lead is to follow sometimes. Other then that this woman was good until "all chest-beating, leader-of-the-pack men, and look what happened to them. The alpha dog doesn't hunt anymore. The new role model is a beta male." It is a true statement but one that should be a cause for concern, not something to celebrate. thats my 2 cents....
 

Rollo Tomassi

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I suppose I can see it from both sides here. This article is everything that's wrong with the culture, as far as masculinity is concerned, but on the other hand it serves the true DJ in that he knows better and is thus at an advantage in manipulating the dynamic.

So here's the rub then, should we even bother trying to unplug AFCs from the Matrix? Is it pointless? Maybe there's a biological aspect and some guys (low testosterone?) are born AFCs? I guess what I'm getting at is, is there some responsibility a DJ should have to unplug chumps in the first place?
 

Vulpine

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Rollo Tomassi said:
I guess what I'm getting at is, is there some responsibility a DJ should have to unplug chumps in the first place?

Well, let's use the Matrix analogy here.

Why did Morpheus unplug Neo?

What we are considering is whether or not to plug back in and screw the rest fighting the war, like Cypher did.

I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of guys that are irritated by the same feminization of society that we are. They may not call themselves "DJ's", but they're out there "fighting" the same "fight" we are.

Shrugging this sh!t off is just leaving it for the next generation to deal with. "It's not my mess: why should I have to clean it up?"

Let me put it like this:
"If you're not one of us, you're one of them. Anyone still plugged in is an agent."
 

tmpgstx

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As alphas become more rare, think it causes more intimidation for girls being around them. It is good, but the girls are too busy trying to impress the alpha, thus removing that comfort factor that betas often illicit from the girl.

For girls, comfort and trust are huge things. It is much easier for them to trust and control the beta. She likes to be worshipped by the beta, but come third week of the month (during ovulation promiscuis mode), she sets out looking to attract the alpha.

It is the classic 'having her cake and eating it too' concept. Many women have this and causes alot of problems with BF or husband.
 

MacAvoy

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I didn't read all the replies but if you cut through the storybook BS from a women, what it basically says to me is what we've all known. Looks doesn't make a DJ, its how he acts and gets out there and is not afraid to get rejected.

Sure the guy may have been a nerd / fat slob but he was willing to get out there and hit on women.

Don't get suckered into the same ole stories reclycled. Basically women are always trying us to buy into the be a nice guy, this time its disguised as a beta male but its the exact same thing again.

Just do what has proven to work, don't get distracted by propoganda.
 

Sinistar

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Rollo Tomassi said:
So here's the rub then, should we even bother trying to unplug AFCs from the Matrix? Is it pointless? Maybe there's a biological aspect and some guys (low testosterone?) are born AFCs? I guess what I'm getting at is, is there some responsibility a DJ should have to unplug chumps in the first place?
...I'll take a shot at this but it might come across as splitting hairs...

Over and over again you'll catch me saying "Once you are aware you are responsible." I think that applies equally here....

The majority of us found this place because we knew something wasn't right (in our lives). That search led us here where (thru reading and posting) we were able to see the "truth" when it comes to women, attraction, relationships, and the feminized world around us.

Whether or not we actually decided to unplug - which to me means that we accept this truth and change our lives in response to it - is only a choice we can make.

Now back to the awareness thing. We were given the chance by others to take the Red Pill (and find the truth). That was all we were given here.

And now that we are aware, I think in some way we are equally responsible to help others have the chance to see the truth. However, whether they want to actually unplug or not can only be decided by them.

I've have pointed three very good friends to this site. One never bothered to look (thought the concept was silly). The other two looked for awhile and took the Blue Pill. In each of their cases, they have always either been entirely alone (zero plates) or serial monogomists with spells of zero plates in-between. However I'm willing to bet that if any of them had been in a state of pain or emotional distress regarding a LTR/GF they would have been more likely to take the Red Pill (just a hypothesis on my part). I will continue to guide AFC's to this site. However, the Red Pill selection rate seems much higher when there is some type of pain involved and even better yet if they find this site on their own.

Perhaps we need to think outside the box a bit here in order to capture more of those searches and by presenting the initial (entry-level) material more subtely and mysteriously in order to draw them and lower their defensive programming (towards awareness)?

There's an interesting risk in burrying our heads in the sand. The PUA's and DJ's out there will have the advanced skills (in matrix speak - the parlor tricks) to create attraction, experience relationships and thus a much greater chance of having offspring. Yet in this society, even those offspring have a high likelihood of being raised by the cuckolding AFC/beta afterwards. So the cycle will continue again and again and again (as it has).
 

ScrewIt

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Cheers to the strong silent type!

Beta males have a blurry definition. While i dont know how common this trend is growing, I personally know 2 females who are attracted to 'geeky' guys. They arent attracted to the outcast nerd, but moreso the guy with the trendy glasses and attitude.

I think a classic example of the 'beta' male is johnny depp. He's got the looks, the charm, wit, and intelligence, and a unique personality of his own without trying hard at all.
 

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Who sits around watching TV? Beta males and women.

Why make TV about alpha males? To do so would be bad marketing.

I'm with WestCoaster. TV sucks. All I watch now is cartoons and Discovery Channel.
 

Aenigma

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Compare the guys from 40 year old Virgin, Something about Mary, Night at the Museaum- to say Captain Jack Sparrow (Pirates), James Bond, or John McLain (Die Hard).


Betas may be protagonists, but they'll never be heros. Every movie, that I can remember, that has a beta as a protagonist has been a comedy; beta males are good for laughing at- no one actually admires them.
 

Aenigma

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So here's the rub then, should we even bother trying to unplug AFCs from the Matrix? Is it pointless? Maybe there's a biological aspect and some guys (low testosterone?) are born AFCs? I guess what I'm getting at is, is there some responsibility a DJ should have to unplug chumps in the first place?
The Matrix is actually very analogous for the situation.

To paraphrase Morpheus- most people don't want to be unplugged. They're happy living in their dream world and will hate you if you try and distrub it.

"Well- what about Neo, he was offered the Red Pill and a chance to escape the Matrix!"

The reason the Neo was offered the Red Pill was because he was seeking out the truth. He was ready to accept that his entire reality was a construct that others had errected to exploit him for their own benefit. What would have happened had Morpheus gone up to the average citizen and told them the truth? They would have laughed at him, or thought that he was insane. They weren't ready to accept the truth.

The same situation exists with Betas/AFCs- if you tell them the truth- they'll say you hate women, or have dated the wrong types, or whatever else they can come up with to protect the mental model underwhich they operate. They're invested in that mental model and they're happy with it; to challenge it is to, almost literally, destory the world they live in. Not only will how they view the world be destroyed, but how they view themselves will be destroyed as well. So much of what they consider important and admirable, about themselves, such as say how "Nice" they are, act to build up (though I would say prop up) their ego and self esteem. If you destroy their world, you destroy those things as well. How many people do you know could handle this shock? I certainly don't think the average person could.

No, its clear that the only thing you can do is try to nudge friends towards the truth. Once they're ready to see the truth, you can offer them the Red Pill- if they accept you can be a friend and mentor to them as they walk the path towards becoming a real man, help them see the goal and help them with the obstacles along the way. If you attepmt to drag them to the path then they'll fight you tooth and nail, kicking and screaming, every step of the way and you'll never get them to the destination; this isn't a journey you can make for them.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Aenigma said:
Betas may be protagonists, but they'll never be heros. Every movie, that I can remember, that has a beta as a protagonist has been a comedy; beta males are good for laughing at- no one actually admires them.
Exactly!

Aenigma said:
The same situation exists with Betas/AFCs- if you tell them the truth- they'll say you hate women, or have dated the wrong types, or whatever else they can come up with to protect the mental model underwhich they operate. They're invested in that mental model and they're happy with it; to challenge it is to, almost literally, destory the world they live in. Not only will how they view the world be destroyed, but how they view themselves will be destroyed as well.
The psychological term for this is called 'ego-investment'. When a person internalizes a mental schema (see belief) so thouroughly and has become conditioned to it for so long, it becomes an integral part of their personality. So to attack the belief is to, literally, attack the person. This is why we see such a violent reaction to people's political, religious, inter-social/inter-sexual, etc. beliefs - they perceive it as a personal attack, even when presented with irrefutable evidence that challenges them.

One common frustration that DJs and upcoming DJs express is how dificult it is to open an AFCs eyes to why he's not hooking up, why he's not getting dates (or 2nd dates if he is), why he's constantly getting LJBF rejections, etc., and the flaws in what is really ego-investments and internalizations. As I'm fond of saying, it's dirty work unplugging chumps from the Matrix, and this is made all the more difficult when a person is in a catagorical state of denial.

People resort to denial when recognizing that the truth would destroy something they hold dear. In the case of a cheating partner, denial lets you avoid acknowledging evidence of your own humiliation. Short of catching a spouse in bed with your best friend, evidence of infidelity is usually ambiguous. It's motivated skepticism. You're more skeptical of things you don't want to believe and demand a higher level of proof. Denial is unconscious, or it wouldn't work: if you know you're closing your eyes to the truth, some part of you knows what the truth is and denial can't perform its protective function.

One thing we all struggle to protect is a positive self-image. The more important the aspect of your self-image that's challenged by the truth, the more likely you are to go into denial. If you have a strong sense of self-worth and competence your self-image can take hits but remain largely intact; if you're beset by self-doubt (a hallmark of self-righteous AFC thinking), however, any acknowledgment of failure can be devastating and any admission of error painful to the point of being unthinkable. Self-justification and denial arise from the dissonance between believing you're competent, and making a mistake, which clashes with that image. Solution: deny the mistake.

Therefore we see AFCs tenaciously cling to a moralistic sense of purpose in their methods which is only reinforced by popular culture in our media, our music, eHarmony, our religion, etc.
 

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I read an Interview with Patric Dempsey (from Grey's Anatomy) that I found fascinating.

The points that I found fascinating and worth mentioning were

1- He was very concerned (checking his blackberry) with a car race. He had to leave his team in Mexico (they were riding in third place) because he had to go back to the U.S. for an interview with OPRAH. He sounded annoyed about that too as he rather be racing with his car than in front of Oprah.

2- His first marriage when he was 21 and his wife was 48 was mentioned. I sensed that his career was literally destroyed when he married that woman. A HUGE mistake. He is now 41 and she should be around 68. He is lucky he is not with her as he would be with an old fart right now.

3- He ended up marrying a younger woman and has twins. He is truly a family man. And continues to be a cool guy.

4- But as important, he appeared to be slightly critical about Grey’s Anatomy. As he stated that he felt the female characters were well developed…but the male, he felt were not as developed, because the characters were what the writer (a woman) felt a man should behave like from her point of view
 

Latinoman

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This is what Tim Graham has to write about that article:

Newsweek Celebrates 'Ecosavant' Al Gore As The Hot New Sensitive 'Beta Male'

Tim Graham on May 29, 2007

News magazines love to float above the real news and focus on nebulous trends, and perhaps none are more nebulous than the sudden popularity of the "beta male," as represented by Al Gore. The "cultural dispatch" by writer Jennie Yabroff celebrates Gore as "the proto beta male" who’s "having the last laugh as a movie star, an ecosavant, a best-selling author, and a potential dark-horse presidential candidate."

Yabroff’s article was headlined "Betas Rule: What do Jim from 'The Office,' Shrek and Al Gore have in common? They're beta males—losers who are winning. Look out, alpha dogs." While the grasping, ambitious "alphas" are out, Gore and Bill Clinton are singled out as the hottest political embodiments of sensitively surrendering men, as if they have no ambitions at all:

Then there's Al Gore. During the 2000 election, the press seized on the conceit that Gore was too eager to please, too deferential, too indecisive. Today Gore is still the proto beta male—the on-again-off-again beard, the belly, the deference to Tipper – but he's also having the last laugh as a movie star, an ecosavant, a best-selling author and a potential dark-horse presidential contender. You could even argue that his former boss is following his lead. Bill Clinton is remaking himself as a soft-spoken, waistline-watching humanitarian who's happy to cede the spotlight to his wife, Hillary. If she wins, he'll make history – as the country's first First Gentleman. You can't get much more beta than that.​

It’s doubtful that Bill Clinton would appreciate Yabroff putting him in the category of "mojo-free man," but that’s just what she does:

It makes sense that our culture is embracing the mojo-free man right now. As America comes to terms with our diminished omnipotence in the wake of 9/11, the Iraq War and President Bush's international unpopularity, we're growing weary of Teflon-coated John Wayne stereotypes of masculinity. Donald Rumsfeld, Ken Lay, Mel Gibson, Don Imus – all chest-beating, leader-of-the-pack men, and look what happened to them. The alpha dog doesn't hunt anymore. The new role model is a beta male.​

The oddity in all of this analysis is that liberals like the Newsweek staff never believed in American "omnipotence" and haven’t liked the "John Wayne stereotypes of masculinity" going way back to the beta-male Sixties. This is just a celebration that liberalism as the hot new zeitgeist, dressed up as a "cultural dispatch." Yabroff even strikes a feminist note, so feminist that those supposedly hot beta males end up being dissed:

Still, alphas aren't totally over. Women still have to prove their alphaness – look at Hillary Clinton, Condoleezza Rice and Nancy Pelosi – even though the guys have given it a bad name. Former Seventeen magazine editor Atoosa Rubenstein is planning a Web site for "alpha kitties" like herself, whom she defines as "girls who are powerful and not afraid to be girly," not unlike Alison in [the new movie] "Knocked Up." It makes sense that as we grow tired and distrustful of the all-powerful male figures, we still crave models of strength and competence. After all, someone needs to tell those feckless betas to tuck in their shirts.​

It’s a little odd to see Bill as the "beta male" and Hillary as the "alpha kitty" when you consider that he cheated on her inside the White House and she played herself up as "gasping for breath" at the discovery. But the "Office" watchers at MRC are shaking their heads at the Al Gore comparisons that Newsweek makes:

The Emmy-winning "The Office" presents a microcosm of this cultural shift. The show's star is the preening, hilariously un-self-aware boss Michael (Steve Carell), who is constantly shadowed by his sycophantic No. 2, Dwight (Rainn Wilson). Both of them are hopelessly deluded wanna-be alphas....The soul of "The Office," and its stealth heartthrob, is actually easygoing, soft-spoken Jim (John Krasinski), who, in true beta fashion, turned down a promotion to management in the season finale.​

How is Al Gore the man who "turned down a promotion to management" and not the man who is "preening," or a "sycophantic No. 2"? This "Dwight" quote graces the August page of this year’s "Office" calendar: "Superior genes....and superior brain-power. Through concentration I can raise and lower my cholesterol at will." That sounds a lot more like Al Gore than the soulful "stealth heartthrob."
 
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