The Liberating Nature of "Open" Relationships

[decades]

look at Highly successful people and I mean the highest level. Then review your "swinging" documentaries. Look for crossover. You won't find any at all.

 

[potato]

My girlfriend and I have an agreed-to open relationship. When we first met, both of us were involved with others. At the time it made sense. The agreement was basically don’t ask, don’t tell. The concern was not to embarrass, or make the other look bad. That is that as long as I was discreet, my time with other women didn’t interfere with our relationship, her friends weren’t aware, and I didn’t talk about it then there was no problem and the same for her. We’ve never had a problem with it.

Even though there are a few women who I continue on with as “friends” I’ve been completely sexually monogamous with my girlfriend since April or May. She claims that it’s been longer for her. In contrast to some of what has been said, the openness of our relationship has brought us closer together.

 

[STR8UP]

After thinking this thread over for a while Str8up I can't say that I agree with that guy you talked to.

Rather I agree with you on your "A Guy" post as well I agree with ketostix's post in this thread.

I think that the guy you talked to is simply the "A Guy" of the woman he is with and also I think since they both enjoy their particular kinky lifestyle it has made for a smooth marriage that will last.

Yes, he is the "A" guy. And I agree....it is possible to lose the "A" status with any woman. Maybe not at any TIME with a given woman, but certainly "from time to time" it is possible to lose this status.

Is it possible that he might lose her to another man? Of course, but I don't think it is any more or less possible than if they were to engage in a typical monogamous relationship. My argument would be that this particular couple have what it takes to maintain this type of arrangement, and that it actually serves to cement their bond. A couple of other times I have been in situations where other guys wives were giving me sexual attention right in front of the husband (and I'm talking about there being some form of nudity or sexual touching involved) and I would always pay attention to the guys reactions. In none of the cases did I notice jealousy or even discomfort, but this last time the husband seemed completely cool about it....moreso than the other times.

So I don't think this guy is in any danger of losing his wife to a BBD, since she's nothing more than a hyper-sexual chick. She isn't LOOKING for or open to being with anyone else, unlike most women who are in relationships. She has no reason to leave. If you heard the way she talked about her husband you would understand. Not too many wives I have heard say ANYTHING good about their man, let alone look at him with such respect and admiration that she did.

So it comes down to this. I don't think that with people who "belong" in this sort of arrangement that the chances are greater of the woman leaving....I actually think the chances are less. But if the relationship is on shaky ground to begin with or if one or more of the partners isn't fully invested in the open aspect, then absolutely I think it could increase the chances of her leaving or the couple breaking up.

Like I said....this is definitely NOT for everyone.

To offer you my own opinion of what I think will make a marriage or relationship last I offer you Law 11 of 48 Laws of Power...

Law 11

Learn to Keep People Dependent on You

To maintain your independence you must always be needed and wanted. The more you are relied on, the more freedom you have. Make people depend on you for their happiness and prosperity and you have nothing to fear. Never teach them enough so that they can do without you.

When he asked if I knew the key to a successful marriage I felt like giving him MY thoughts on it which would be that the man needs to be a Man and lead, and the woman needs to be a Woman and embrace her femininity instead of fighting it. I think the vast, vast majority of problems with relationships today stem from the man not fulfilling his role, and the woman not embracing hers.

And how does it apply to your swinger friend's scenario you may ask?

Well I think it may be hard for a woman to find a male partner for herself that would be willing to engage in swinging and allowing his woman to have sex with other guys in front of him or even when he's not around so for this reason if the woman really has a desire for this kind of lifestyle and to have her own stable man in order to engage in it with then this is part of what applies to Law 11 to make her dependent on this man. The other qualities of course are whatever he brings to the table possibly aside from this that makes him her "A Guy" in her judgement.

You are probably at least partially right. I'm sure that a chick might get used to this sort of a lifestyle (the man too for that matter) and it would serve to keep them together because they know that it would be tough to find anyone else so accepting.

Also I agree with Law 11 in the sense that I think if someone cannot keep their woman dependent on them in some major way then that man can lose his "A Guy" status at which point his woman begins either the overt or covert process of shopping for a replacement.

I totally agree, but I have to interject that I believe that most of this "dependence" is psychological. In other words, the woman stays with the man because she "loves" him (which means that she likes how he makes her feel), moreso than out of practicality. Some practical aspects may exist, however I believe that they are mostly disguised and rationalized and manifested as "love". This is why I do not believe in "love" in the traditional sense, BTW.

Both you and Juando are missing the point deliberately.. You are both lost on this issue.
Sane MEN ( make that SMART ) do not get involved with another man's wife. Lets leave morals out of this for a moment in case I am censored .
It is irrelevant whether she wants it, or he is OK with the deal.
Why don't you just go move into his guest room and feed yourself from his refrigerator . Maybe the three of you could all have breakfast together and vacation in the Bahamas as a threesome . Perhaps you could also leech off his generosity even further and have him lend you his SUV and his golf clubs..You might even drive their kid to soccer, or pick up their laundry and clean his pool too. . Geez, gimme a break.
GO get your very own woman STR8.
Sharing another man's woman is the antithesis of everything ' DJ '. It reeks of absolute desperation.

You say "Lets leave morals out of this" yet your entire post is a moral rant. Drive their kid to soccer? Give me a break.....

And your assertion that this is the "antithesis of everything DJ" has no basis in fact. Getting involved in something like this and being a "DJ" aren't mutually exclusive. Some of the biggest macks I have known would have no problem with this sort of situation.

look at Highly successful people and I mean the highest level. Then review your "swinging" documentaries. Look for crossover. You won't find any at all.

Perhaps highly successful people might not want to participate in any sort of study or documentary for fear of repercussions from the small-minded masses? These people generally have more to lose via public image than say, a biker/plumber and his wife. THESE are the people who will tell you straight up how they roll.

Incidentally, this couple is upper middle class, FWIW. I think he is an engineer and she is a nurse or something like that.

 

[GuanYu]

Call me old fashion, but there's nothing DJ about "swinging", "triangles", or "sharing". In most cases, women (and men) that are inclined to do such things are insecure and desperate. Think about it. You're sharing your woman with another man why? Afraid of loss? Think she'll cheat anyway without your permission and damage your ego? The list could go on forever. The other dude involved may be a DJ cause he's the only one that gets to have his cake and eat it to while the one in the relationship is stuck with a ho bag of a gf/wife.

Open relationships aren't true relationships. Just like marriages where the couple swings isn't a true marriage. There's no exclusivity and it'll end in disaster. Sooner or later somebody is destined to find another that fvcks the snot out of them better then you could and then what happens after that? I'm sure we all know the answer.

"Open" relationships may seem liberating to some, but is that how one should live their life? Always questioning the intentions or feelings of their significant other? I sure as hell wouldn't want to live like that and neither should any real man with any bit of integrity/manhood.

 

[Mr. Me]

In contrast to some of what has been said, the openness of our relationship has brought us closer together.

People sometimes survive an 8 story fall without even breaking a bone, but I wouldn't suggest you try it.

But the question really is: if I eat your food, how does it make my food back at home taste any better?

If I put on your clothes, how does that make my clothes fit any better?

If I have sex with your girlfriend, how does that make my relationship with my wife closer? If that were truly the case, then any guy who cheats on his wife would have a better relationship with his wife. But that's contrary to what typically happens. Even back in the day when women put up with hubby's straying rather then divorcing him, which was tantamount to an implicit agreement to his activities, the relationship didn't get better.

The only way one can become close with anyone is by working on their relationship with that person. If I build a relationship with your kids, then it doesn't enhance my relationship with my kids any, the only way for me to build my relationship with my children is for me to put the effort into it - and that necessitates me putting in the time with them. Relationships need that kind of nurturing. So how does it happen that you're working on being close with your woman while you're putting in time without her in the bed of another?

I submit it doesn't, and that any such "closeness" one feels is actually based on other reasons. Maybe it makes you feel close in knowing that she's cool with you being sexual with others, for example.

But then, you could feel those close feelings perhaps because she thoughtfully buys you your favorite brand of peanut butter from time to time, which you love to eat. But from that we wouldn't draw the conclusion that eating peanut butter can make a couple feel closer.

I’ve been completely sexually monogamous with my girlfriend since April or May. She claims that it’s been longer for her.

Interesting to note, that as your relationship progressed, she chose sexual monogamy, as did you.

 

[horaholic]

So, are you O.K. with her fvcking other dudes?

 

[Juando]

It's human nature to look for formulas that we can fall back on.
Open relationships are anti-formula and risky, but so what?
If there's one in a thousand that's working for a couple, who are you to judge?
The law of gravity is immutable, but the structure of relationships besides being based on nature and instinct, is based on many societal, religious, and historical roots that need to be questioned. Not to throw them out, just to keep it real. Thank you Str8up for bringing it up and (not intentionally) putting yourself in the crossfire- I can see you're up to it.

And a tip of the hat to those of you who kept the discussion high-toned so that those of us who are interested in open thought process could benefit- regardless of where you come down on this.

I suppose we have to be very open to different personalities expressing themselves here, but I don't get what the payoff is for shaming and name-calling, just because you disagree. I can take it but I see that sort of response as unproductive and undermining. Just me.

 

[Mr. Me]

look at Highly successful people and I mean the highest level. Then review your "swinging" documentaries. Look for crossover. You won't find any at all.

Or highly effective people either. I'm thumbing through the contents of "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" and I can't find "Have Sex With Someone Else's Partner" in there. Not at all. Unless you stretch the meaning of "Begin with the End In Mind".

 

[STR8UP]

It's human nature to look for formulas that we can fall back on.
Open relationships are anti-formula and risky, but so what?
If there's one in a thousand that's working for a couple, who are you to judge?
The law of gravity is immutable, but the structure of relationships besides being based on nature and instinct, is based on many societal, religious, and historical roots that need to be questioned. Not to throw them out, just to keep it real. Thank you Str8up for bringing it up and (not intentionally) putting yourself in the crossfire- I can see you're up to it.

And a tip of the hat to those of you who kept the discussion high-toned so that those of us who are interested in open thought process could benefit- regardless of where you come down on this.

I suppose we have to be very open to different personalities expressing themselves here, but I don't get what the payoff is for shaming and name-calling, just because you disagree. I can take it but I see that sort of response as unproductive and undermining. Just me.

You know, I don't have a problem with someone saying "You know, I could never do something like this". I doubt that I myself could.

It's the whole debate about how it is "wrong" to do or you are "not smart" if you were to get involved in something like this that rubs me the wrong way.

I am not a religious person, but I do have a sense of "right" and "wrong". I might take liberties that others would not because I truly believe that the majority of the population of this planet lives in a religious/governement/societal induced coma that makes them blindly follow structure without regard to their own personal needs of happiness. I find it humorous that so many people go through their lives utterly unaware of the TRUE nature of the world around them. I have simply taken my newfound awareness of "fact" and compared it to all of the fiction that has been loaded into my head and reconciled the two to develop my OWN moral code. Although it is not completely devoid of the influence of outside forces (I live in the same world everyone else does), it is "cleansed" and continues to be cleansed of the damaging remnants of my upbringing.

I get a feeling that there are a lot of people that can at least see through the "matrix" as we know it when it comes to women, but are still entirely unaware that they are hopelessly locked in the grasp of the "other" matrices that shackle and control them.

 

[thedeparted]

I used to have philosophical debates like this in college. Next morning, I always felt depressed. Why? B/c instead of philosophizing we should have been philandering.

So rather than debating this Str8 go out and try it. Then report back. You will be much more credible, interesting, and satisfied.

 

[Juando]

Or highly effective people either. I'm thumbing through the contents of "The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People" and I can't find "Have Sex With Someone Else's Partner" in there.

Anyone who scratches under the surface of history is familiar with the cololorful sex lives, to put it mildly, of some of its most prominent course-changing figures.

Does that mean I recommend that behavior? Not for me. Not without a ton of salt, in this culture. Plate-spinning is enough of challenge for me these days.

Not at all. Unless you stretch the meaning of "Begin with the End In Mind".

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers: :flowers:

 

[Juando]

Oops! double post.

 

[decades]

Am I fine with her f*cking other men? Sure, as long as I never hear about it or know when it's happening. You can't get jealous over something you aren't aware of. Of course I must hold myself to the same standards. I have managed a loving, long term relationship just like anyone else's, but without feeling the entrapment of monogamy. Sure, it has its obstacles and can go sour just like any relationship, but I get the love as well as the sexual fulfillment that many men have trouble balancing.

it's one thing to do this in a causal dating environment, as you are. It's an entirely different thing to do this in a committed relationship such as marriage. apples and oranges.

 

[STR8UP]

I used to have philosophical debates like this in college. Next morning, I always felt depressed. Why? B/c instead of philosophizing we should have been philandering.

So rather than debating this Str8 go out and try it. Then report back. You will be much more credible, interesting, and satisfied.

I emailed freaky wife with pics from that night and told her why I had to cut out early, but that I had a good time and that we should hang out again. She asked if I had gotten an invitation to some chick's party that's coming up, and said if not she would send it to me and that the chick that is having it is "a lot of fun" and she's "sure it will be memorable". I'm interested to see what this is all about....

That said, I already stated that I doubt I could ever pull it off being on the "inside". I might be willing to try if I find the right girl, but that would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

Don't get me wrong....I think the IDEAL situation would be where a couple could be monogamous and completely satisfied, but this situation goes AGAINST human nature. We are programmed to want to habe our cake and eat it too. In other words, get married, but the hubby fukks random women from time to time when he's out of town on business to satisfy his desire for sexual variety, and the wife fukks the A/C repair guy when she's "fertile" to satisfy her need to secure better genes.

It's one big web of lies, deception, and denial of your natural desires. That kinda sucks.

Anyone who scratches under the surface of history is familiar with the cololorful sex lives, to put it mildly, of some of its most prominent course-changing figures.

Yea, I'm TOTALLY not buying this whole "successful people aren't into that sort of thing argument.

I guess people will try to find any excuse to rationalize why this is "wrong" or "destructive". None of this is based upon fact. Open your minds people!

Am I fine with her f*cking other men? Sure, as long as I never hear about it or know when it's happening. You can't get jealous over something you aren't aware of.

And if you did find out something you are more mentally prepared to handle it.

Too many guys think that a commitment from a woman is a guarantee of exclusive sexual access. The stats (even the ones I believe to be to be skewed due to women's incentive to lie) tell us otherwise, yet men are content to HOPE that they don't become a victim.

it's one thing to do this in a causal dating environment, as you are. It's an entirely different thing to do this in a committed relationship such as marriage. apples and oranges.

If you believe that a marriage is that much different than a steady relationship (aside from the man being strung up by his nutsack) then I feel sorry for you.

That piece of paper is taken about as seriously as a person with no credit and no assets takes a lease agreement.

 

[Zonder]

I guess people will try to find any excuse to rationalize why this is "wrong" or "destructive". None of this is based upon fact. Open your minds people!

One word. STD's.

I do anything possible to avoid comitting to a single partner. But you have to admit the problem exists. People willing to accept open relationships are more likely to get STD's than monogamous people. This has nothing to do with rationalization or closed-mindedness.

Look up the stats on STD's and consider the likelyhood of a person having sex with different people all the time catching one. Let's assume you have sex with three "regular" partners, plus some ONS or whatever, and each of your "regular" partners does the same. Doesn't look as unlikely to catch some bug any more, does it? It's as factual and based on mathematical probablility as it gets.

 

[STR8UP]

One word. STD's.

I do anything possible to avoid comitting to a single partner. But you have to admit the problem exists. People willing to accept open relationships are more likely to get STD's than monogamous people. This has nothing to do with rationalization or closed-mindedness.

Look up the stats on STD's and consider the likelyhood of a person having sex with different people all the time catching one. Let's assume you have sex with three "regular" partners, plus some ONS or whatever, and each of your "regular" partners does the same. Doesn't look as unlikely to catch some bug any more, does it? It's as factual and based on mathematical probablility as it gets.

Another one of the "you're gonna die from fukking" crowd".....

I see you brought up statistics. Your chances of getting an STD that will kill or seriously injure you are one in how many? I'm too lazy to look it up.

Then again, don't bother. I'm pretty sure the odds aren't very high.

And BTW.....my point had nothing to do with the physical aspect of it. It's the cultural/societal/moralistic stance that some people take against it that is not right. Not right to try to impose it on me anyway.

 

[jophil28]

And BTW.....my point had nothing to do with the physical aspect of it. It's the cultural/societal/moralistic stance that some people take against it that is not right. Not right to try to impose it on me anyway.

OK how about this Mr Liberated Amoral.

BY sharing another man's wife or G/f, you, and the other guy, are placing her as "the Prize" to be attended to by TWO men. Imagine how her ego is inflated by this deal.
Why would any MAN do that? Well a real MAN would never get in this kind of arrangement because his own self regard would never allow it and ,furthermore, his own Prize mentality is automatically canceled by entering in this arrangement.
So why would a CHUMP share awomen ? Simple, because she is his only available source of sexual intimacy and he is willing to "take what he can get" from another man's women. It is AFCness at its finest...the pinnacle of the Scarcity Mindset.

IT reeks of desperation on the part of the second guy.

 

[Tazman]

I think plate spinning will still be in effect here, if you aren't spinning, you will be jealous even if you've established the "out of sight, out of mind" rule. In fact, that will amplify it because you'll be left "wondering" what the other is up to.

If you go into it with an existing "harem" then you might be fine, but only as much as your individual circumstance allows. How much do you care about each of these women? Usually you'll favor one more than the rest and then the all too familiar feelings of jealousy will arise.

Jealousy is a powerful emotion, so much so that it drives some people to kill.

 

[Zonder]

OK how about this Mr Liberated Amoral.

BY sharing another man's wife or G/f, you, and the other guy, are placing her as "the Prize" to be attended to by TWO men. Imagine how her ego is inflated by this deal.
Why would any MAN do that? Well a real MAN would never get in this kind of arrangement because his own self regard would never allow it and ,furthermore, his own Prize mentality is automatically canceled by entering in this arrangement.
So why would a CHUMP share awomen ? Simple, because she is his only available source of sexual intimacy and he is willing to "take what he can get" from another man's women. It is AFCness at its finest...the pinnacle of the Scarcity Mindset.

IT reeks of desperation on the part of the second guy.

I'm with str8up on that one, except for the STD considerations. There are worse AFC moves than having sex with the hot chick. You do realise hot chicks have boyfriends by default, right? Every time you have sex with one she probably has some shmuck who she's looking to replace. So you end up sharing her at least at first anyway. And there's no guarantee you aren't sharing her anyway without your knowledge.

What is AFC is worrying about the other guy rather than assuming you are her best plate. Of course she will want to be exclusive with you if you're a catch. Not being exclusive with her is something SHE will settle for, to have the priviledge of being with you.

 

[STR8UP]

OK how about this Mr Liberated Amoral.

BY sharing another man's wife or G/f, you, and the other guy, are placing her as "the Prize" to be attended to by TWO men. Imagine how her ego is inflated by this deal.
Why would any MAN do that? Well a real MAN would never get in this kind of arrangement because his own self regard would never allow it and ,furthermore, his own Prize mentality is automatically canceled by entering in this arrangement.
So why would a CHUMP share awomen ? Simple, because she is his only available source of sexual intimacy and he is willing to "take what he can get" from another man's women. It is AFCness at its finest...the pinnacle of the Scarcity Mindset.

IT reeks of desperation on the part of the second guy.

Yea, she's quite the prize when I drop my load across her t!ts and face.....

Your scarcity argument might hold water with someone like yourself who is bound to some sort of moral issues with another man sharing "his" wife, but I don't share your reservations. It's just another piece of ass to me.