jhonny9546
Master Don Juan
If you cannot trust the example of masculinity you received from your father or any male figure "above you" during your early days, and you are searching for what constitutes "good" masculinity, you're in the right path.
We'll found out togheter.
There is a debate online regarding what is "healthy" versus "toxic."
But we will not focus on defining what is "healthy" or "toxic," but rather what is "good."
While modern psychology attempts to define "healthy" and "toxic," it is not always clear whether a given attitude or behavior falls into one category or the other or which is truly better.
Therefore, we will define it as "masculine."
Anything that is truly masculine is, and will always be, attractive, both to women and as a positive approach or behavior for your own life.
Part 1:
Recognizing "Good" Masculinity
Premise:
I find John’s videos very interesting. His current personal situation is not the point here.
What matters is that he has lived through experiences that led him to study and gain a deeper understanding of the dynamics between men and women.
Any man with a bit of common sense can see that some of his content offers insights that can genuinely improve your lives, gentlemen.
Knowing some of these things ten years ago would have helped me make better life choices, much like the ideas shared by Pook and other figures from the the sosuave community here. Let’s get to the heart of the matter.
In this video (
), John discusses something very important.
He uses a simple metaphor to explain it quite effectively. A woman is attracted to the "grizzly", the embodiment of raw, masculine energy. Yet, to sustain a relationship with him, she feels the need to manipulate him into becoming a "teddy bear", a gentle, soft hearted figure, so that she (and their children) can feel secure. The idea is that he can face the outside world as a "grizzly," while transforming into a "teddy bear" once he returns home.
(Many in the military refer to this as "the switch", the ability to shift between the persona required for the job and the one adopted for life at home.)
So far, so good.
When we project this into reality, we often see women enter, and remain in, relationships with men who are exaggerated of this masculine quality, men with highly narcissistic or suffer from extreme personality disorders. These women will go to great lengths and bear many high and lows to "tame" such men, hoping to turn them into "teddy bears", and sometimes, they actually succeed. The sense of power they derive from these occasional successes is precisely what keeps them tethered to these types of men.
(Trauma bonding)
Given this, we frequently hear these women complaining about their partners, or issuing ultimatums that threaten the relationship. Could it be that is the actual real life reaction from a woman who stepped outside her frame? losing their ability to exert control over the man, and, consequently, can no longer coax out his "teddy bear" side?
In other words, many women who complain about their partners and make threats are, in fact, still attracted to them; they are simply terrified of losing them, as they no longer seem to hold any power over them..
There could be many examples of this. Just think of a woman who, while at a party with friends, calls her husband "lazy," or complains that "he’s always on the couch watching the game on weekends instead of taking me out", or any other such bull**** she might throw his way, like "he never listens to me," "he’s always like this," and so on.
Rather than simply being a "lack of admiration" or a "lack of respect," these could be signs that she is unable to regain the power needed to shift the man she’s with from his "grizzly" state back to a "teddy" state. This makes her feel insecure, which in turn causes her to lose her frame.
(This paragraph, which I’ve highlighted in orange, is open for debate; I’m not entirely sure if this is the case. In fact, many of you argue that when this happens, it’s the man who has lost his frame, though I could also see it being the other way around.)
Ultimately, the point of this discussion is to clarify one thing:
Setting everything else aside, let us focus solely on the fact that women are, in reality, attracted to this specific type of behavior in men. The type of behavior they are attracted to is very evident in narcissistic or psychopathic men.
What does this mean for us men?
Is this the "grizzly" archetype that every man should take as an example?
Consider, for instance, when men happen to witness an interaction between a "grizzly" man and a manipulative woman, a woman who tries to turn him into a "teddy bear" but fails, eventually becoming emotional and losing her composure because she couldn't gain the power she had hoped for. (as written above)
When we, as men, have the chance to observe an interaction between a narcissistic or sociopathic man and a woman, can we see an extreme representation of what masculinity entails?
For those who grew up in a feminist influenced world, one that has sought to eradicate masculinity, witnessing such an interaction (how a man expresses his masculinity and how a woman attempts to manipulate him) will be revelatory.
It helps clarify what truly makes a man masculine and what masculinity in men actually is.
Remember? Masculinity is attractive.
What John says, offers an interesting perspective through the simple Bear metaphor. It clearly illustrates that women often seek out the most "grizzly" man in a group, then use their manipulative skills to try and steer him away from those "grizzly" traits to establish a relationship. Ultimately, if he can manage to be a "teddy bear" with her while remaining a "grizzly" out in the world, she is perfectly content.
Part 2:
Recognizing good, healthy masculinity
Now, having identified what constitutes "good" masculinity and how it is expressed, we must address what John Gottman defines as a healthy relationship.
If you aren't familiar with Gottman’s work, specifically the "Four Horsemen", go check it out: https://www.got
tman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/
Now that we have gained knowledge from a professional perspective (keep in mind that Gottman is a professional, even if he profits from this, he has uncovered genuine insights that make relationships worth living), we must ask ourselves: how can a man be masculine, an attractive, "grizzly-like" figure, while also staying healthy and capable of fostering good relationships with others?
We know that narcissists, psychopaths, and men with personality disorders may represent masculinity taken to an extreme, much like a woman with borderline personality disorder might represent an extreme, seductive form of femininity.
If you ever experienced a BPD or Cluster B woman, you know what I'm talking about.
Yet, we also know that a woman with borderline personality disorder is toxic; regardless of the initial attraction, men eventually reach a point where they aknowledge she's no worth, and that they must cut off all contact.
For such man, there will also be such a woman.
This is precisely what happens when a woman matures and begins to value healthy, positive masculinity, she leaves the narcissist behind (going "no contact") in favor of a man who embodies the qualities we are actually discussing in Part 2.
SoSuave has taught you how to become this "type" of man through specific attitudes, subtle adjustments, shared stories, and techniques. Now, our task, drawing from the experiences we’ve gained while adopting this new mindset, is to figure out how to channel these traits toward a healthy, positive form of masculinity.
So, keeping that Sosuave knowledge, and turning it into not only good but also healthy, masculinity.
To put together Part 2, we need the effort and commitment of all the men here.
We are gathering as much material and as many experiences as possible, aiming to develop a thread that can guide men in recognizing the differences between:
1) "Grizzly" masculinity and being a "teddy bear."
(This is somewhat more straightforward and easier to grasp.)
2) "Grizzly" masculinity that is merely "good" versus "grizzly" masculinity that is both good and healthy.
(This is more nuanced; it represents the distinction between the masculinity embodied by a narcissist and that of a mature, healthy man.)
_-----_
This entire endeavor stems from the need to understand masculinity and to become masculine men, for the sake of a better life.
But as stated above, not that kind of masculinity that attracts, but it's toxic, rather the masculini that attracts and generate admiration and respect.
My metaphor is this:
We can all be artists, expressing our creativity on canvas and displaying our work in a museum.
Yet, we must acknowledge that among the visitors, only some will be truly captivated by our specific style of art, and choose to follow us.
This does not negate the fact that every artowork, regardless of its individual creativity or originality, must adhere to fundamental principles that appeal to the human brain, such as composition, tonal values, color, contrast, focal points, gesture, and so on.
The same principle applies to the dynamic between men and women.
Every man will naturally attract a certain group of women.
However, we cannot ignore the fact that masculinity, along with other specific traits, possesses a universal appeal.
Therefore, it is our responsibility to learn and cultivate these qualities.
Much like a painter creating a masterpiece: one brings their own unique originality, while simultaneously employing the universal elements of art.
We'll found out togheter.
There is a debate online regarding what is "healthy" versus "toxic."
But we will not focus on defining what is "healthy" or "toxic," but rather what is "good."
While modern psychology attempts to define "healthy" and "toxic," it is not always clear whether a given attitude or behavior falls into one category or the other or which is truly better.
Therefore, we will define it as "masculine."
Anything that is truly masculine is, and will always be, attractive, both to women and as a positive approach or behavior for your own life.
Part 1:
Recognizing "Good" Masculinity
Premise:
I find John’s videos very interesting. His current personal situation is not the point here.
What matters is that he has lived through experiences that led him to study and gain a deeper understanding of the dynamics between men and women.
Any man with a bit of common sense can see that some of his content offers insights that can genuinely improve your lives, gentlemen.
Knowing some of these things ten years ago would have helped me make better life choices, much like the ideas shared by Pook and other figures from the the sosuave community here. Let’s get to the heart of the matter.
In this video (
He uses a simple metaphor to explain it quite effectively. A woman is attracted to the "grizzly", the embodiment of raw, masculine energy. Yet, to sustain a relationship with him, she feels the need to manipulate him into becoming a "teddy bear", a gentle, soft hearted figure, so that she (and their children) can feel secure. The idea is that he can face the outside world as a "grizzly," while transforming into a "teddy bear" once he returns home.
(Many in the military refer to this as "the switch", the ability to shift between the persona required for the job and the one adopted for life at home.)
So far, so good.
When we project this into reality, we often see women enter, and remain in, relationships with men who are exaggerated of this masculine quality, men with highly narcissistic or suffer from extreme personality disorders. These women will go to great lengths and bear many high and lows to "tame" such men, hoping to turn them into "teddy bears", and sometimes, they actually succeed. The sense of power they derive from these occasional successes is precisely what keeps them tethered to these types of men.
(Trauma bonding)
Given this, we frequently hear these women complaining about their partners, or issuing ultimatums that threaten the relationship. Could it be that is the actual real life reaction from a woman who stepped outside her frame? losing their ability to exert control over the man, and, consequently, can no longer coax out his "teddy bear" side?
In other words, many women who complain about their partners and make threats are, in fact, still attracted to them; they are simply terrified of losing them, as they no longer seem to hold any power over them..
There could be many examples of this. Just think of a woman who, while at a party with friends, calls her husband "lazy," or complains that "he’s always on the couch watching the game on weekends instead of taking me out", or any other such bull**** she might throw his way, like "he never listens to me," "he’s always like this," and so on.
Rather than simply being a "lack of admiration" or a "lack of respect," these could be signs that she is unable to regain the power needed to shift the man she’s with from his "grizzly" state back to a "teddy" state. This makes her feel insecure, which in turn causes her to lose her frame.
(This paragraph, which I’ve highlighted in orange, is open for debate; I’m not entirely sure if this is the case. In fact, many of you argue that when this happens, it’s the man who has lost his frame, though I could also see it being the other way around.)
Ultimately, the point of this discussion is to clarify one thing:
Setting everything else aside, let us focus solely on the fact that women are, in reality, attracted to this specific type of behavior in men. The type of behavior they are attracted to is very evident in narcissistic or psychopathic men.
What does this mean for us men?
Is this the "grizzly" archetype that every man should take as an example?
Consider, for instance, when men happen to witness an interaction between a "grizzly" man and a manipulative woman, a woman who tries to turn him into a "teddy bear" but fails, eventually becoming emotional and losing her composure because she couldn't gain the power she had hoped for. (as written above)
When we, as men, have the chance to observe an interaction between a narcissistic or sociopathic man and a woman, can we see an extreme representation of what masculinity entails?
For those who grew up in a feminist influenced world, one that has sought to eradicate masculinity, witnessing such an interaction (how a man expresses his masculinity and how a woman attempts to manipulate him) will be revelatory.
It helps clarify what truly makes a man masculine and what masculinity in men actually is.
Remember? Masculinity is attractive.
What John says, offers an interesting perspective through the simple Bear metaphor. It clearly illustrates that women often seek out the most "grizzly" man in a group, then use their manipulative skills to try and steer him away from those "grizzly" traits to establish a relationship. Ultimately, if he can manage to be a "teddy bear" with her while remaining a "grizzly" out in the world, she is perfectly content.
Part 2:
Recognizing good, healthy masculinity
Now, having identified what constitutes "good" masculinity and how it is expressed, we must address what John Gottman defines as a healthy relationship.
If you aren't familiar with Gottman’s work, specifically the "Four Horsemen", go check it out: https://www.got
tman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-recognizing-criticism-contempt-defensiveness-and-stonewalling/
Now that we have gained knowledge from a professional perspective (keep in mind that Gottman is a professional, even if he profits from this, he has uncovered genuine insights that make relationships worth living), we must ask ourselves: how can a man be masculine, an attractive, "grizzly-like" figure, while also staying healthy and capable of fostering good relationships with others?
We know that narcissists, psychopaths, and men with personality disorders may represent masculinity taken to an extreme, much like a woman with borderline personality disorder might represent an extreme, seductive form of femininity.
If you ever experienced a BPD or Cluster B woman, you know what I'm talking about.
Yet, we also know that a woman with borderline personality disorder is toxic; regardless of the initial attraction, men eventually reach a point where they aknowledge she's no worth, and that they must cut off all contact.
For such man, there will also be such a woman.
This is precisely what happens when a woman matures and begins to value healthy, positive masculinity, she leaves the narcissist behind (going "no contact") in favor of a man who embodies the qualities we are actually discussing in Part 2.
SoSuave has taught you how to become this "type" of man through specific attitudes, subtle adjustments, shared stories, and techniques. Now, our task, drawing from the experiences we’ve gained while adopting this new mindset, is to figure out how to channel these traits toward a healthy, positive form of masculinity.
So, keeping that Sosuave knowledge, and turning it into not only good but also healthy, masculinity.
To put together Part 2, we need the effort and commitment of all the men here.
We are gathering as much material and as many experiences as possible, aiming to develop a thread that can guide men in recognizing the differences between:
1) "Grizzly" masculinity and being a "teddy bear."
(This is somewhat more straightforward and easier to grasp.)
2) "Grizzly" masculinity that is merely "good" versus "grizzly" masculinity that is both good and healthy.
(This is more nuanced; it represents the distinction between the masculinity embodied by a narcissist and that of a mature, healthy man.)
_-----_
This entire endeavor stems from the need to understand masculinity and to become masculine men, for the sake of a better life.
But as stated above, not that kind of masculinity that attracts, but it's toxic, rather the masculini that attracts and generate admiration and respect.
My metaphor is this:
We can all be artists, expressing our creativity on canvas and displaying our work in a museum.
Yet, we must acknowledge that among the visitors, only some will be truly captivated by our specific style of art, and choose to follow us.
This does not negate the fact that every artowork, regardless of its individual creativity or originality, must adhere to fundamental principles that appeal to the human brain, such as composition, tonal values, color, contrast, focal points, gesture, and so on.
The same principle applies to the dynamic between men and women.
Every man will naturally attract a certain group of women.
However, we cannot ignore the fact that masculinity, along with other specific traits, possesses a universal appeal.
Therefore, it is our responsibility to learn and cultivate these qualities.
Much like a painter creating a masterpiece: one brings their own unique originality, while simultaneously employing the universal elements of art.