The Fundamental Problems Men Have with Women

[attic]

Hahahaha gold.
The only exception I can think of are daughters. I wonder if I have one someday, would staying alpha with beta tendencies the way to go.

Lots of love and encouragement, and very stern when she steps out of line.

And teach her the truth about the world around her. This all begins with being aligned your authentic self, a true man.

 

[soulforge]

In the first week maybe.

After she falls, calling her is what Corey Wayne calls "The Illusion of Action".

Men: women should do the pursuing. We are not manning up when we hump her leg more. We like to think we are in control, but the woman should do 80% of the text initiation and pursuing. This comes back to the original analogy that the woman must be leaning toward the man, not away from him.

When your car breaks down, a real man goes to fix it.

When your girl breaks down, a real man waits until she is better.

Ok so if woman do 80% of the persuing and text initiation, what if she has options, and will not make that effort?

What if she is not going out of her way to earn GF status?

Do you pull even further away, untill whole things comes to an end.

 

[bigneil]

Ok so if woman do 80% of the persuing and text initiation, what if she has options, and will not make that effort?

What if she is not going out of her way to earn GF status?

Do you pull even further away, untill whole things comes to an end.

Yes. You just said she has better options and isn't going out of her way for you.

 

[BeExcellent]

What @soulforge points out is legitimate for desirable women. He's absolutely correct that if a man fails to embrace the masculine role then he will lose out on the chicks he would most want (because hello....many men want her) you've just removed yourself from contention.

The idea that women are going to do 80% of the initiating is simply fantasy for women who have an abundance of good options.

Such women are NOT insecure. Insecure women might chase you. The most desirable women won't chase. It's not feminine.

In fact the way a desirable woman sorts the men is based on who indicates interest from among the suitable choices, which men show leadership, a masculine attribute.

If a man expects a woman to chase him (and many insecure men do expect this), then a desirable woman will simply figure that man isn't interested in her and will entertain other offers from men who DO show interest. So you'll lose out on the most desirable women by having this expectation.

I mean I never chase after men (never have), and I rarely initiate communication, even while dating, and I have multiple good options at any given time (and always have). I take the position that a man who wants my company has the balls to ask for it directly. When he asks I respond by saying yes to spending time with him. If he doesn't have the balls to ask me out or reach out and show his intent he isn't man enough for me.

Why would I ever chase some man who is too scared, wishy-washy, passive, or arrogant to reach out (because that's how failure to LEAD comes across)? Answer: I won't and neither will other desirable women with options. So congratulations, this strategy will result in loss of opportunity you might otherwise (if you were masculine & led) have with the kind of woman sought by many men.

I mean threads like this explain a lot. Expecting women to chase means you are actively selecting for insecure women with fewer options. Perfect if you are an insecure man (great example of water seeking its own level and HOW that manifests.)

If however you want a desirable woman who is NOT insecure you'll have to sort differently to get the desired result.

Be a man. If you want her, ask her out. If you want to communicate, reach out. Simple.

Nobody said that means long sappy conversations. Ask for what you want and allow her to respond. Quit taking yourself out of contention for the women you most desire.

 

[corrector]

Want to know the real issues men are having with women?

• They no longer fear commitment.
• They no longer want to leave her after having sex.
• They no longer avoid relationships.
• They no longer act like men.
• They are acting like women.

If you had sex with her, why would you want to see her again? Unless she begged you. Been there, done that. Real men f*ck her and never call her again.

But isn't that how you would treat an escort?

 

[bigneil]

But isn't that how you would treat an escort?

You know escorts who beg you to see them again? You're doing something right!

 

[Urbanyst]

Women don't choose men based only on attraction. They are not like men.

You'll notice that every type of man gets rejected and dumped by women. What does that tell you? Did all these men start acting feminine or become p**ssies? I'm sure some of these men were consistent in their behavior or "frame" from day one while others deviated. Both groups got rejected or dumped anyway.

Then you see men in 20 year LTR's who are complete wimps and barely have an Adam's Apple or a jaw line or any base in their voice.

 

[Urbanyst]

I thought DJs were supposed to embrace rejection? I've never liked it myself.

I don't care for the direction the culture is going in, and I don't care for the moral decay. Women may be the most obvious sign of this, but today's men are not exactly bastions of virtue either.

Who was the first person to say DJ's should embrace rejection and why did people decide to follow that person like some cult leader?

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

I think we all enjoy the company of women, provided they are giving us what we want and behaving the way we want.

Do you enjoy sh*t tests? Do you enjoy being ghosted? Do you enjoy mind games? Do you enjoy rejection? Do you enjoy settling? Me neither.

The big debate on this forum seems to be about how much of women's sh*tty behavior is the fault of men, vs. the fault of culture or the women themselves. If a woman treats you like dirt is she just a sh*tty person or did you do something wrong? Maybe its a little of both.

Crikey. It's just about enough to make you wonder whether the ancients were on to something with that quaint old notion of morality. It's like they divined the nature of human nature or something.... Of course, it was required to drag us out of a state of barbarism. Does that mean we are heading back there, where all is chaos and no cosmos?

 

[BeExcellent]

If a man asks a woman out or shows interest I agree with @da dynamically. When she responds (affirming her reciprocal interest) she is indeed meeting him halfway.

That is how it should go, absolutely. I'm not advocating some contrived thing.

Men must get out there & slay their dragons. As a woman I never want to interrupt, inconvenience or distract a man from slaying his dragons. I don't try to insert myself into his important endeavors by pestering him. Rather I am confident he will let me know when he is done & has time for me. And then I will respond again in an affirmative way, which meets him halfway.

I will be a soothing & restorative place for him to re-energize after the dragon slaying. But I will neither cling nor chase (pester). I have the confidence to watch him go & know he will return.

 

[Trump]

Want to know the real issues men are having with women?

• They no longer fear commitment.
• They no longer want to leave her after having sex.
• They no longer avoid relationships.
• They no longer act like men.
• They are acting like women.

If you had sex with her, why would you want to see her again? Unless she begged you. Been there, done that. Real men f*ck her and never call her again.

Come on bro, being a 'real man' has nothing to do with fearing commitment, leaving after sex, avoiding relationships. Being a real man is about doing everything in your best interest, being educated, keeping your mind and body in shape, respecting people, dressing well, respecting your time and money, not talking crap from others,using logic over emotion to make decisions.

You have a fun date with a good looking young girl and have sex with her. You don't want to leave 30 seconds after you are done and we are suddenly 'beta'? Are you guys kidding? Even Bond sticks around for some chit chat, but sosuave members leave the good looking girl high and dry...

If you have fun with her and enjoy having sex with her, why wouldn't you want to see her again? What does being a 'real man' and 'never calling her again' have to do with each other?

It seems like we often over compensate in here.

 

[skinnyguy]

Come on bro, being a 'real man' has nothing to do with fearing commitment, leaving after sex, avoiding relationships. Being a real man is about doing everything in your best interest, being educated, keeping your mind and body in shape, respecting people, dressing well, respecting your time and money, not talking crap from others,using logic over emotion to make decisions.

You have a fun date with a good looking young girl and have sex with her. You don't want to leave 30 seconds after you are done and we are suddenly 'beta'? Are you guys kidding? Even Bond sticks around for some chit chat, but sosuave members leave the good looking girl high and dry...

If you have fun with her and enjoy having sex with her, why wouldn't you want to see her again? What does being a 'real man' and 'never calling her again' have to do with each other?

It seems like we often over compensate in here.

Bigneil has some decent points, but he banged a stripper for 6 months which contradicts his hypothesis.

Plenty of real men are MARRIED. You think John Cena or Kobe Bryant aren't real men?

 

[bigneil]

Bigneil ... banged a stripper for 6 months which contradicts his hypothesis.

I'm sorry, was there a point in there? The (girl hotter than 99% of you ever dated) begged me not to leave for (9) months.

Plenty of real men are MARRIED. You think John Cena or Kobe Bryant aren't real men?

Real foolish men. (Quick! Someone refer to a famous athlete as an example of why men should actually want to get married!). Wait, who the heck is John Cena??

The ten biggest divorce cases scaled to inflation cost the man TWO HUNDRED MILLION. Were those real men? Once upon a time they were. Think Roger Clemens, Tiger Woods and Arnold Schwartzenegger weren't real men? Sadly, they ran into real-ity.

 

[zekko]

Men: women should do the pursuing. We are not manning up when we hump her leg more. We like to think we are in control, but the woman should do 80% of the text initiation and pursuing.

I agree with the premise that for a relationship to work best, the woman should be more invested, and thus do most of the text initiation and pursuing. However, that should should just happen naturally as a result of high interest, not because you are intentionally trying to make is happen. Trying to fix a percentage to it just seems asinine, and 80% sounds a little high. That a 4-1 ratio, that's practically ignoring her.

Who was the first person to say DJ's should embrace rejection and why did people decide to follow that person like some cult leader?

I don't know, is it Pook? Even when I was a kid, I remember people talking about picking up women being a numbers game. Ask 100 women out, and some of them are going to say yes. As for the ones who say no, who cares? That was many years before the PUA community existed. That's not exactly the same as "embracing" rejection, but the basic principle was the same.

 

[skinnyguy]

I'm sorry, was there a point in there? The (girl hotter than 99% of you ever dated) begged me not to leave for (9) months.


Real foolish men. (Quick! Someone refer to a famous athlete as an example of why men should actually want to get married!). Wait, who the heck is John Cena?

A guy who will have way more money than you will ever have.

 

[zekko]

The ten biggest divorce cases scaled to inflation cost the man TWO HUNDRED MILLION. Were those real men? Once upon a time they were. Think Roger Clemens, Tiger Woods and Arnold Schwartzenegger weren't real men? Sadly, they ran into real-ity.

I don't know anything about Roger Clemens' personal life, but from what I understand both Woods and Schwarzenegger were screwing around on their wives. Good for their wives for not putting up with it.

I wouldn't recommend marriage though. Cena is an interesting case. He seemed pretty resolute that he wasn't going to get married again. I'm surprised he got engaged, pre nup or not.

 

[The Duke]

@BeExcellent - from a man's perspective a woman pursuing has nothing to do with how secure/insecure she may be. In fact most women are insecure and I don't know a pretty girl that doesn't have a few insecurities. ;-) Women put a lot of stock into what others think of them and fear rejection more than men, those are always haulmarks of an insecure person.

A woman's attempt to pursue is almost always related to her interest level, or how many orbiters/side dudes she has at that point in time.

I'm all about the initial pursuing, but you have no clue how "coy & hard to get" some of these girls can be. By the 4thd date if I am still doing all the work, I'm out. I've given up on girls because I had to chase too much, and a few weeks later I hear from them and they question why I stopped talking to them. LMFAO...seriously, screw that, I'm not here to kiss their azz and put them on a pedestal. I don't have time for that crap. I'm not that desperate either.

 

[bigneil]

80% sounds a little high. That a 4-1 ratio, that's practically ignoring her.

I didn't say you don't respond!

Example of a girl INITIATING 80% of the time (it's on a per day basis).

Blue indicates a day when the man initiated, red is the days she initiated.

Sunday:
You: I'd like to take you away Friday night. Attached is an itinerary.
Her: I'd love to! You always plan the most thoughtful trips. I'm SO excited!! (hearts)

Monday:
Her: Good morning love!
You: Good morning!
Her: So so SO excited about Friday!
You: I will rub your feet for an hour.
Her: (heart)

Tuesday:
Her: Thinking of you (heart).
You: Always thinking of you.
You (later): I picked this dress out for our next photo shoot.
Her: I love it! You're so good to me.

Friday:
Her: Hello my love. I'm getting my hair braided for you.
Her: What dress should I wear?
You: Surprise me.
Her: (heart)
Her: On the way!
You: I'll be there.

Saturday:
Her: Thank you so much for taking me out last night! (Sparkly heart).
You: You're welcome.

This was my boilerplate week when she had high interest.

 

[BeExcellent]

I understand what you are saying @Howiestern I really do. What men have told me repeatedly is that they are so happy to finally meet a woman who doesn't blow up their phone & bug them all the time. I hear that a lot.

The other thing I hear a lot is men complaining about women trying to get the girlfriend label after 3 or 4 dates or demanding exclusivity. I'm not a woman who does either of those things so I find as men see how chill I am (for example) they really like it.

When a man pings me, that's all I need to respond. I might say "Hey I'm going over here...wanna join?" or something if we've been on some dates. If he asks me out (and I like him) I say yes & never flake. If I legit can't go then I always counter offer.

It's not as though I'm some ice queen in my ivory tower at all. I'm quite warm & perfectly willing to meet a man halfway. I'm perfectly happy to be my cool chill self to & make suggestions or whatever.

Trust me men I spend time with know I enjoy them. I'm transparent about that. I just think women who chase that hard (because let's face it, there's a spectrum) end up as a commodity to a man & come across as desperate & insecure after a while.

I just need to know he's interested. If a man I fancy shows interest I make it easy for him. Most of the women I know operate from that same place (and most of them remain happily married...where they put their husbands first & he leads).

 

[bigneil]

@BeExcellent again refuses to acknowledge that there are two phases to relationships: the initial courting phase where the man pursues more (about 50% as she must reciprocate), and then phase 2 once she falls,, when she will be chasing him (Coach Corey Wayne says she will do 70-80% of the pursuing - see my example above - this does not mean she sends 4 texts for every one of yours). My data showed my last girl did 71-79% of the pursuing for our heydey. Doc Love (Corey Wayne and my own mentor) said it long ago: women are happiest in relationships where they do most of the pursuing.

Naturally in middle age BeExcellent would love lots of men to initiate and let their interest be known. With 21 year old women, that is not what I've observed to be the case.