Pap
Don Juan
...echo's right...I forgot to add that echo is soo the exception.
Cheers,
Papa
Cheers,
Papa
“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”
Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.
Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers. Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.
I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.
The FINAL Debate: Looks Vs. Personality
- Thread starter Starman
- Start date
Lionheart
Master Don Juan
I think someone on this forum once said something that nailed this issue for me.
It was along the lines of
"As long as you meet the minimum attraction standard that she is willing to accept then having an excellent personality just sways her decision."
Obviously personality keeps a LTR going.
Also as for that 'scientific' study, It makes a good case and seems to be nicely objective until the line "men are just more stupid."
I have a statement with a simliar amout of objectiveness.
"The person that said that is so obviously a ****ing idiot."
Nothing runins a nice scientific study faster than a stupid comment like that....I would not hold any credibility to anything anyone said after that...no matter how many ****ing letters after their name.
Lionheart.
It was along the lines of
"As long as you meet the minimum attraction standard that she is willing to accept then having an excellent personality just sways her decision."
Obviously personality keeps a LTR going.
Also as for that 'scientific' study, It makes a good case and seems to be nicely objective until the line "men are just more stupid."
I have a statement with a simliar amout of objectiveness.
"The person that said that is so obviously a ****ing idiot."
Nothing runins a nice scientific study faster than a stupid comment like that....I would not hold any credibility to anything anyone said after that...no matter how many ****ing letters after their name.
Lionheart.
Troublemaker
New Member
Good point, Survivor. I read a study where women looked at photos and rated guys higher on average if they were smiling. So personality can bump up looks.
Also, via the halo effect, good-looking guys can be attribured qualities such as having a great personality even if there isn't any evidence for it.
Ding ding ding!
We have a winner!
Short of drugs, brain damage, or a chemical imbalance, most people are on the inside what they look like on the outside. There have been TONS of studys that show that people are judged by thier looks, but in all of them the conclusion was that PEOPLE were the ones at fault for being so 'prejudice'. They didn't even stop to realize that maybe people are right!
Looks can be changed though. A good haircut will do wonders, just look at how bad girls look when they hack off thier long beautiful hair! Yuck! Or how much better a chick looks in pink.
Usually the "ugly" people are not in perfect shape. This shows that they are lazy and boring. Just like a chick with muscles: who wants a girl that can whoop yer ass?
All you gotta do is just make sure you look like a GUY, and yulbe fine.
If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.
Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.
This will quickly drive all women away from you.
And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.
Player_Supreme
Banned
I found this article in my files also:
There are two main types of attraction; conscious and
subconscious attraction. Using these two types of
attraction in combination is a major part of being
successful with women. In addition to subconscious and conscious attraction. I recently read that there is a third more subtle type of attraction… social attraction.
The author of this article that I read stated that humans are very social creatures. He also said that most of us,
whether we realize it or not, place A LOT of value on
other's opinions. In the area of growing up most of us are conditioned
to seek the approval and acceptance of our peers,
parents, and other key figures in our lives.
We all have a need for approval and this need for approval sticks with us into adulthood. It is the driving force behind what makes us
seek success and compete with our peers.
Because we need to feel like we belong somewhere in this world,
And we need to feel like we are accepted by others, we need
to feel like we have the approval of others… often in
order to just feel good about ourselves.
This almost sounds weak doesn't it? Like our self-esteem
is dependent on others? You may even be saying to
yourself, "Humph, not me, I don't need the approval of
others, I'm too confident and independent for that."
Other people's opinions MATTER... A LOT more than you
think.
For that reason it is important that you ask yourself how
attractive you are to EVERYONE (not JUST women).
How attractive are you to men?
How attractive are you to old women?
How attractive are you to parents?
How attractive are you to a woman's friends?
How attractive are you to a woman's older sister?
Do you see why these other people's opinions are
important?
Study these examples:
YOUR GIRL: "Yeah, so, I'm dating that guy _________.
He's GREAT!"
HER FRIEND: "_________? What on earth are you
doing with that freak?"
YOUR GIRL: "Huh? Well, I don't know what you are
talking about he seems OK to me."
... and life goes on - she brushes her friend's comment
off as jealousy. The next day she stops to talk to her
nerdy friend Matt who works at the library:
MATT: "Hey, how are things?"
YOUR GIRL: "Great! I'm dating this fantastic new guy!"
MATT: "Oh yeah, who?"
YOUR GIRL: "_________!"
MATT: "You are dating that geek! Ha, what a loser. Are
you serious?"
YOUR GIRL: "Huh?"
Do you see how these kinds of comments could make a
woman question her opinion of you?
When a woman sees you what OTHERS would think
about you is a factor in whether or not she feels
attracted to you.
Humans want admiration, they want respect. If being
with you would add social value to a woman's life then
she will be all the more likely to feel a strong attraction
for you. On the other hand, if you are a social outcast,
or even just slightly lower than her on the social totem
pole, and would detract from her social life then she will
be much less likely to feel attraction for you.
A woman will be socially attracted to you if you are on
an equal or higher social plane than her. If you are more
popular, better looking, more successful, more admired,
etc. then being with you will be socially acceptable.
However, if you are on a lower social plane than her
because you are not as good looking, not as popular,
unsuccessful, incompetent, stupid, have a bad
reputation, etc. then she will have a BARRIER to
overcome in order to feel attracted to you.
The barrier being SOMEONE ELSE's OPINION of you.
The fewer barriers to attraction a woman has the easier
it will be for her to develop a strong, butterflies in her
stomach, knee-bending attraction.
When a woman sees you she sees you through the eyes
of many people in one instant. She filters you through
her perceived opinions of what others will think.
On some level she thinks, "What will people think if they
see me with that guy?"
You want to position yourself in such a way socially that
your reputation, your appearance, your posture, your
demeanor, your career - pretty much everything about
you - will reflect well on a girl.
That way she will have no social barriers to overcome.
Now, this raises a conflict... you shouldn't have to
change your life and who you are in order to impress a
girl or anyone else for that matter. That is silly,
demeaning, and, above all, ineffective. Centering your
life around women and trying change yourself to please
them actually drives them away.
BUT, self-improvement (continually trying to become
more competent, educated, and successful) will allow
you to change for the right reasons, will take the focus
of your life off of women and put it on yourself, and will
allow you to become admired, respected, and successful.
Self-improvement is the key to becoming
outrageously successful with women.
When you can add tremendous value to a woman's life
socially, emotionally, physically, spiritually, financially,
etc. and she has no barriers to attraction to overcome
she won't be able to help but feel drawn to you.
Not only that, but by seeking to improve yourself you
will feel better, have more self-respect, look better, have
more money, have more fun, feel more confident, live
longer, have control over your life, and enjoy life more…
There are two main types of attraction; conscious and
subconscious attraction. Using these two types of
attraction in combination is a major part of being
successful with women. In addition to subconscious and conscious attraction. I recently read that there is a third more subtle type of attraction… social attraction.
The author of this article that I read stated that humans are very social creatures. He also said that most of us,
whether we realize it or not, place A LOT of value on
other's opinions. In the area of growing up most of us are conditioned
to seek the approval and acceptance of our peers,
parents, and other key figures in our lives.
We all have a need for approval and this need for approval sticks with us into adulthood. It is the driving force behind what makes us
seek success and compete with our peers.
Because we need to feel like we belong somewhere in this world,
And we need to feel like we are accepted by others, we need
to feel like we have the approval of others… often in
order to just feel good about ourselves.
This almost sounds weak doesn't it? Like our self-esteem
is dependent on others? You may even be saying to
yourself, "Humph, not me, I don't need the approval of
others, I'm too confident and independent for that."
Other people's opinions MATTER... A LOT more than you
think.
For that reason it is important that you ask yourself how
attractive you are to EVERYONE (not JUST women).
How attractive are you to men?
How attractive are you to old women?
How attractive are you to parents?
How attractive are you to a woman's friends?
How attractive are you to a woman's older sister?
Do you see why these other people's opinions are
important?
Study these examples:
YOUR GIRL: "Yeah, so, I'm dating that guy _________.
He's GREAT!"
HER FRIEND: "_________? What on earth are you
doing with that freak?"
YOUR GIRL: "Huh? Well, I don't know what you are
talking about he seems OK to me."
... and life goes on - she brushes her friend's comment
off as jealousy. The next day she stops to talk to her
nerdy friend Matt who works at the library:
MATT: "Hey, how are things?"
YOUR GIRL: "Great! I'm dating this fantastic new guy!"
MATT: "Oh yeah, who?"
YOUR GIRL: "_________!"
MATT: "You are dating that geek! Ha, what a loser. Are
you serious?"
YOUR GIRL: "Huh?"
Do you see how these kinds of comments could make a
woman question her opinion of you?
When a woman sees you what OTHERS would think
about you is a factor in whether or not she feels
attracted to you.
Humans want admiration, they want respect. If being
with you would add social value to a woman's life then
she will be all the more likely to feel a strong attraction
for you. On the other hand, if you are a social outcast,
or even just slightly lower than her on the social totem
pole, and would detract from her social life then she will
be much less likely to feel attraction for you.
A woman will be socially attracted to you if you are on
an equal or higher social plane than her. If you are more
popular, better looking, more successful, more admired,
etc. then being with you will be socially acceptable.
However, if you are on a lower social plane than her
because you are not as good looking, not as popular,
unsuccessful, incompetent, stupid, have a bad
reputation, etc. then she will have a BARRIER to
overcome in order to feel attracted to you.
The barrier being SOMEONE ELSE's OPINION of you.
The fewer barriers to attraction a woman has the easier
it will be for her to develop a strong, butterflies in her
stomach, knee-bending attraction.
When a woman sees you she sees you through the eyes
of many people in one instant. She filters you through
her perceived opinions of what others will think.
On some level she thinks, "What will people think if they
see me with that guy?"
You want to position yourself in such a way socially that
your reputation, your appearance, your posture, your
demeanor, your career - pretty much everything about
you - will reflect well on a girl.
That way she will have no social barriers to overcome.
Now, this raises a conflict... you shouldn't have to
change your life and who you are in order to impress a
girl or anyone else for that matter. That is silly,
demeaning, and, above all, ineffective. Centering your
life around women and trying change yourself to please
them actually drives them away.
BUT, self-improvement (continually trying to become
more competent, educated, and successful) will allow
you to change for the right reasons, will take the focus
of your life off of women and put it on yourself, and will
allow you to become admired, respected, and successful.
Self-improvement is the key to becoming
outrageously successful with women.
When you can add tremendous value to a woman's life
socially, emotionally, physically, spiritually, financially,
etc. and she has no barriers to attraction to overcome
she won't be able to help but feel drawn to you.
Not only that, but by seeking to improve yourself you
will feel better, have more self-respect, look better, have
more money, have more fun, feel more confident, live
longer, have control over your life, and enjoy life more…
FlyGuy
Master Don Juan
Regarding looks vs personality, both matter. But I'd say looks are more important because if a girl isn't physically attracted to you then there's nothing you can do to change that. You can increase attraction through personality but not create it.
Hahahaha, nice one. I needed a good laugh.
elvis aint dead yet
Senior Don Juan
--------
Short of drugs, brain damage, or a chemical imbalance, most people are on the inside what they look like on the outside.
----------------------
Yeah with that thinking, it be easy to solve all these unsolved missing child cases, unsolved rapist cases, unsolved murder cases, and on and on.
Most successful con-men and/or criminals come off as being the FRIENDLIST and kindest person in town.
What somebody looks like on the outside really has nothing to do with what that person is on the inside.
True, in some cases, it happens, but overall, a HOT ACTRESS WOMAN, could really be a serial murderer.
Or a buff hunked out wealthy looking male could be a serial rapist.
Do you really think that EVIL people look evil?
I sure hope not.
Short of drugs, brain damage, or a chemical imbalance, most people are on the inside what they look like on the outside.
----------------------
Yeah with that thinking, it be easy to solve all these unsolved missing child cases, unsolved rapist cases, unsolved murder cases, and on and on.
Most successful con-men and/or criminals come off as being the FRIENDLIST and kindest person in town.
What somebody looks like on the outside really has nothing to do with what that person is on the inside.
True, in some cases, it happens, but overall, a HOT ACTRESS WOMAN, could really be a serial murderer.
Or a buff hunked out wealthy looking male could be a serial rapist.
Do you really think that EVIL people look evil?
I sure hope not.
I don't think EVIL is a personality trait. I really don't think that the popular description of evil is something that is inherent in a personality.
Just because a chick is HOT does not mean she is incapbale of killing someone. There is more than just "hot or not" to looks.
Things like being a con-artist or a murderer don't really reflect personality. However, traits like agressiveness, insightfulness, meekness, etc. CAN be picked up by how the person looks.
People can change how they act, but it is harder to change the CORE of thier being.
Personality traits are pretty much genetic, as well as looks. They are intertwined with one another. But how a person acts is up to them.
If you define "personality" as simply the major decsicions on how a person acts (like if they are a murderer, or help thier grandma, or beat thier kids, etc.) then "personality" has nothing to do with attraction.
Rather, I think of personality as what you REALLY are. If you take me and lock me in a room for years and years, my personality does not change to "lazy" and "boring" even though I would sit around and do nothing all day.
Outside events change how you act, but I don't think you can change who you are at your core more or less than you can change your looks.
elvis aint dead yet
Senior Don Juan
You obviously have never been in the real world.
Yes, everybody is born with looks, traits, genetics, etc, but its how we grow up, how our family, friends, parents, etc treat us, and what happens around us that makes us who we really are.
If you are locked inside an empty room for months and years, YES YOU WILL BECOME DIFFERENT.
Ever hear about criminals who go insane because they are locked in solitary confinement?
and as for
--------
If you define "personality" as simply the major decsicions on how a person acts (like if they are a murderer, or help thier grandma, or beat thier kids, etc.) then "personality" has nothing to do with attraction
------------------
There are plenty of MURDERERS, RAPISTS, WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS who walk thier grandmother across the street, have a wife or husband and a some children.
By all intensive purposes, they are as normal as anybody else. Yet they are still criminals. Some of which, never get caught.
We are born as we are, but everything in our entire lives that happens to us, it effects us.
Some Guys who are nice and get taken advantage of over and over again become ANGRY and bitter.
Some people who succeed at everything they do have more confidence then somebody who struggles at everything.
MOST PEOPLE really dont discover who they are until trying times.
Yes, its unfortunate, but the truth is, when times are tough and decisions need to be made that effect you or your family, thats usually when you find out what you are made of and who you really are.
If you won the lottery at birth, had any women you ever wanted, won everything you ever did, lived forever without a problem, you wouldnt be a very well developed human being.
As it is said, What does not kill us, makes us stronger.
Yes we are born as we are, but everything that happens to us in our lives and all the decisions we make or don't make, determines what we become and don't become.
Lock yourself up for months or years without light or communication, and believe me, YOU WILL NOT BE THE SAME PERSON you once were.
GET LOCKED UP and go to prison for a year or more and YOU WILL NOT BE THE SAME PERSON after you leave. Usually you either NEVER WANT TO GO BACK TO PRISON or you become a worse criminal then before.
If you watch one of your children die young, believe me, you will forever be a different person.
If you watch one of your parents die from cancer, believe me, it will effect who you are.
Have a marriage end in a nasty divorce, believe me, it'll effect you.
How you react to these circumstances and situtations determines what you will become.
Most everybody makes decisions and choices. Most every decision and choice you make will effect who you are and what you become.
Graduate college and take a job in LOS ANGELES, you'll become different then if you took a job in CHARLOTTE, NC.
Everything plays a part. Environment, places, people, and things.
it's life. Long but short, easy but hard.
Yes, everybody is born with looks, traits, genetics, etc, but its how we grow up, how our family, friends, parents, etc treat us, and what happens around us that makes us who we really are.
If you are locked inside an empty room for months and years, YES YOU WILL BECOME DIFFERENT.
Ever hear about criminals who go insane because they are locked in solitary confinement?
and as for
--------
If you define "personality" as simply the major decsicions on how a person acts (like if they are a murderer, or help thier grandma, or beat thier kids, etc.) then "personality" has nothing to do with attraction
------------------
There are plenty of MURDERERS, RAPISTS, WHITE COLLAR CRIMINALS who walk thier grandmother across the street, have a wife or husband and a some children.
By all intensive purposes, they are as normal as anybody else. Yet they are still criminals. Some of which, never get caught.
We are born as we are, but everything in our entire lives that happens to us, it effects us.
Some Guys who are nice and get taken advantage of over and over again become ANGRY and bitter.
Some people who succeed at everything they do have more confidence then somebody who struggles at everything.
MOST PEOPLE really dont discover who they are until trying times.
Yes, its unfortunate, but the truth is, when times are tough and decisions need to be made that effect you or your family, thats usually when you find out what you are made of and who you really are.
If you won the lottery at birth, had any women you ever wanted, won everything you ever did, lived forever without a problem, you wouldnt be a very well developed human being.
As it is said, What does not kill us, makes us stronger.
Yes we are born as we are, but everything that happens to us in our lives and all the decisions we make or don't make, determines what we become and don't become.
Lock yourself up for months or years without light or communication, and believe me, YOU WILL NOT BE THE SAME PERSON you once were.
GET LOCKED UP and go to prison for a year or more and YOU WILL NOT BE THE SAME PERSON after you leave. Usually you either NEVER WANT TO GO BACK TO PRISON or you become a worse criminal then before.
If you watch one of your children die young, believe me, you will forever be a different person.
If you watch one of your parents die from cancer, believe me, it will effect who you are.
Have a marriage end in a nasty divorce, believe me, it'll effect you.
How you react to these circumstances and situtations determines what you will become.
Most everybody makes decisions and choices. Most every decision and choice you make will effect who you are and what you become.
Graduate college and take a job in LOS ANGELES, you'll become different then if you took a job in CHARLOTTE, NC.
Everything plays a part. Environment, places, people, and things.
it's life. Long but short, easy but hard.
Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.
Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.