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timmyroni

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This is a common excuse, particularly among PUA's, who aren't having the type of success they expected or were promised. Let's set aside the fact that few if any men are able to date multiple attractive women at the same time (the reasons are too obvious to require explanation).

The real question is, does your city help or hinder your dating chances? In all honesty, if you are willing to put in requisite time and effort and are reasonably realistic about your SMV, the answer if very often "no."

Among friends living in big cities, some of them into pickup, others not, their results tracked very closely to their conventional ranking in looks and social status. Average looking guys tended to date and marry average looking girls. Some of these guys chased hot girls with gusto initially, but with typical market corrections, wound up with girls close to them in looks and social status. Better looking guys, assuming they had relatively good social skills, dated better looking women.

In the smaller towns I've lived in, the odds of an average looking guy dating an attractive women are probably better than in a big city, since the pool of successful and attractive men is far smaller. Women will very often date down, if the man is reasonably successful and stable. The pool on both sides is much more shallow, so you can't afford to be as picky, meaning less physically attractive men can fare better than they would otherwise.

A trend I have noticed in both big and small cities is the increasing percentage of men and women who

-aren't married and date infrequently
-marry later
-marry but don't have children
-don't date at all but have some close friends and still have relatively high quality of life

tldr:
-big cities give the appearance of abundant dating options, but this is negated by far more intense competition

-small cities give the appearance of scarce dating options, but forces people in the dating pool to be less selective as a result
 

jimwho

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few if any men are able to date multiple attractive women at the same time (the reasons are too obvious to require explanation).
Speak for yourself. I had two hot Cindy's at the same time. My eight year old Daughter answered the landline and messed one up for me. Your post is pocked with conjecture. With all due respect.
 

timmyroni

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Speak for yourself. I had two hot Cindy's at the same time. My eight year old Daughter answered the landline and messed one up for me. Your post is pocked with conjecture. With all due respect.
If they're beautiful to you, that's all that matters. I'm a bit jaded as I've read and heard of far too many reports of "hot women" who turned out to be 3's and 4's irl, that I don't put any stock in it.
 

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jimwho

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TimmyMacaroni. I've' had 4's. I don't discriminate. Why do you think we invented beer goggles and dimmer switches?
 

Zimbabwe

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Of course it's the problem, pickup in Bangkok Thailand is a lot easier than Toronto Canada for example.


In all honesty, if you are willing to put in requisite time and effort and are reasonably realistic about your SMV, the answer if very often "no
It's like climbing a small hill vs scaling a mountain. Plenty of people have different results in different locations.

When i used Tinder in different parts of the city i got vastly different results, when i used it in Seoul, Korea I got 10 times more matchs compared to Sydney, Australia.
aren't married and date infrequently
-marry later
-marry but don't have children
-don't date at all but have some close friends and still have relatively high quality of life
This is common all over the western world, women in the west just don't care about marriage since our culture is so against it.
 
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SW15

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The real question is, does your city help or hinder your dating chances? In all honesty, if you are willing to put in requisite time and effort and are reasonably realistic about your SMV, the answer if very often "no."
This idea has some merit, though I would say that the city hinders more regularly than you say it does.

Frequency of relocation is often a bigger factor than the city itself, especially if a man finds himself living in an area with more than 100,000 in population, which is what I consider the minimum population threshold to date effectively if over the age of 25. Men who have not relocated more than 1 time (if ever) tend to be better positioned for success. This depends on what the definition of success is. Men who tend to stay in the same area throughout their lives tend to have strong social circles and longer relationships. These are blue pill/beta males who are never on seduction forums and have no idea what PUA is. They were fortunate that their parents never relocated them during childhood and they weren't complete dweebs during the 0-18 years (normal social skills). The geographical continuity will often help these men, regardless of the size of their home base.

There are some large cities in North America that men tend to complain about. They are:

-Toronto
-San Francisco
-Seattle
-Portland, OR
-Washington, DC

In the United States, every major metro area West of the Mississippi River has worse male-female ratios than those east of it, especially in the 18-39 age range.

-small cities give the appearance of scarce dating options, but forces people in the dating pool to be less selective as a result
Once again, it depends on how small. I had a short stint in a small area (the metro area was around 90,000 at the time) after the 2008 crash. I had subpar employment. The area itself had limited employment options. My BMI and fitness were fine and I was in my mid-20s. I had issues there. The area itself was somewhat of a dead zone for the 18-39 age range. It wasn't a college town, most high school graduates left the area. There was some population of young families of people from that city that married a high school or college sweetheart. Some poor to lower middle class single moms. That was a tough pool for options. I ended up leaving for a Top 15 metro area in the USA, and prior to that city, I had been in another Top 15 metro area.

I had no social circle in that area either.

I'll agree that women can be less selection in areas with less than 100,000 but that doesn't mean a greater chance for success.

-big cities give the appearance of abundant dating options, but this is negated by far more intense competition
In the 10+ years since that relocation away from a small city that was a temporary landing spot, I have experienced some success. I have not had as much success as I would have liked. I have done better socially than the previous Top 15 metro area where I lived and the smaller area. However, my social circle has proven incapable of getting me dates. Part of this is the fact that I never got into a top social circle here as a result of being a later in life transplant. My main social circle was other transplants who arrived in the city around the same time I did and a few other assorted people to supplement that.

In the past 10+ years, I have been reliant upon websites/swipe apps and cold approach. It's a tough road.

I have acknowleged the intense competition in my city, both on this forum and in private conversations in real life.

The move was worth doing. If a person moves, I think they need to rank other factors over dating. I did my last move for both career reasons and dating reasons.
 

timmyroni

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There are some large cities in North America that men tend to complain about. They are:

-Toronto
-San Francisco
-Seattle
-Portland, OR
-Washington, DC
Toronto is the only of those cities I haven't visited on that list. DC I've visited, but haven't spent much time there.

SF, Seattle and Portland I have more experience in. IME, Portland is the best of the 3 and I would rank it as at least 'good,' maybe even 'very good.' It's good for talent, and very good for ease of game.

SF is certainly spottier, but again I would rank it as 'good' as long as you make the proper effort to find your niches that work for you. There are very attractive women in SF as long as you know where to look. SF can be quite clique-ish but consistent face time can get you in.

The main problem with SF is that it can become an absolute nightmare for average to lower SMV males. The amount of money you have to spend to compensate for average to below average looks can be astronomical. You also have to learn to stay away from situations where low SMV women try to impose their will, which they get away with all too often in that region.

Seattle, again, I don't have a lot of experience with, but I will admit that the talent pool struck me as pretty poor for a city of that size. Gaming is not especially difficult there, but you have to scout more carefully for talent. It's there, but you have to be more vigilant about looking.

This is all pre march of 2020. I'm sure all of these cities are in some weird stage of quarantine, lockdown, face mask mania or what not.

Portland and Seattle have both been overrun with homeless. SF is circling down the gutter, I'm sure.

Of course it's the problem, pickup in Bangkok Thailand is a lot easier than Toronto Canada for example.

It's like climbing a small hill vs scaling a mountain. Plenty of people have different results in different locations.

When i used Tinder in different parts of the city i got vastly different results, when i used it in Seoul, Korea I got 10 times more matchs compared to Sydney, Australia.

This is common all over the western world, women in the west just don't care about marriage since our culture is so against it.
Interesting results, for sure.

I would say bangkok is not really gaming, more like soft prostitution. I have no doubt it's 'easier' for average to low SMV men for that reason. I've had friends and acquaintances talk about the differences as well.
 
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corrector

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I am from Toronto. First place on every incel city list worldwide. There are tonnes of escorts though.
 

Kotaix

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Some cities are just objectively worse than others. The ratio of women who are non-datable in seattle or portland due to critical red flags - purple hair, socialism, etc - is going to be higher than places like miami where the SMV is dictated by their beach body.

Of course it's more complicated than this, but it makes a difference on the male/female ratio
 

BriBri

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I would say bangkok is not really gaming, more like soft prostitution. I have no doubt it's 'easier' for average to low SMV men for that reason. I've had friends and acquaintances talk about the differences as well.
Bangkok and even Pattaya City are easy to score in, but you pay one way or the other. That's why so many (low-SMV) UK and European expats spend so much time there. Be careful though....the Russians basically own much of Pattaya, at least Walking Street.
 

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Zimbabwe

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It's possible your region is an issue, if your "type" isn't appreciated there.
Many factors come into play, if you go to a place where you don't look or act like the locals you will be "exotic".
 

LARaiders85

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This is a common excuse, particularly among PUA's, who aren't having the type of success they expected or were promised. Let's set aside the fact that few if any men are able to date multiple attractive women at the same time (the reasons are too obvious to require explanation).

The real question is, does your city help or hinder your dating chances? In all honesty, if you are willing to put in requisite time and effort and are reasonably realistic about your SMV, the answer if very often "no."

Among friends living in big cities, some of them into pickup, others not, their results tracked very closely to their conventional ranking in looks and social status. Average looking guys tended to date and marry average looking girls. Some of these guys chased hot girls with gusto initially, but with typical market corrections, wound up with girls close to them in looks and social status. Better looking guys, assuming they had relatively good social skills, dated better looking women.

In the smaller towns I've lived in, the odds of an average looking guy dating an attractive women are probably better than in a big city, since the pool of successful and attractive men is far smaller. Women will very often date down, if the man is reasonably successful and stable. The pool on both sides is much more shallow, so you can't afford to be as picky, meaning less physically attractive men can fare better than they would otherwise.

A trend I have noticed in both big and small cities is the increasing percentage of men and women who

-aren't married and date infrequently
-marry later
-marry but don't have children
-don't date at all but have some close friends and still have relatively high quality of life

tldr:
-big cities give the appearance of abundant dating options, but this is negated by far more intense competition

-small cities give the appearance of scarce dating options, but forces people in the dating pool to be less selective as a result
I agree
 

LARaiders85

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SF is certainly spottier, but again I would rank it as 'good' as long as you make the proper effort to find your niches that work for you. There are very attractive women in SF as long as you know where to look. SF can be quite clique-ish but consistent face time can get you in.

The main problem with SF is that it can become an absolute nightmare for average to lower SMV males. The amount of money you have to spend to compensate for average to below average looks can be astronomical. You also have to learn to stay away from situations where low SMV women try to impose their will, which they get away with all too often in that region.
I guess I am average then, but I never struggled anywhere else
 

timmyroni

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One city I did find completely unimpressive and dull was Chicago. The night life is surprisingly limited for such a major metro area. It was also incredibly difficult to spot hot girls walking and traveling about the city at random. It just felt generic and dull.

But yeah, I'm not surprised to read the complaints about the cities mentioned above. Guys are just going to complain: most posters on men's forums have a highly idealized picture of their ideal outcomes and the real world never seems to match up.


As far as SF, there isn't much point in trying to figure that city out. Like most other major cities, it's in full-on toilet bowl draining mode. Anything I have to say or write about it is strictly for the sake of nostalgia (pre-2020).

SF is clique-ish, but that also meant there should have been plenty of opportunities to find your niche: rich kids from marin co., hot sorority girls, some of the prettiest asian gals I've seen anywhere, a niche of slim black girls (not oaktown fat hoochies, and of course, hipster chicks in the mish. This is not to mention the active cougar scene, prime daygame at dolores, among many other "scenes" and activities throughout the city and bay area.

I found SF to be GOOD to VERY GOOD for randomly meeting hot women during the day shopping and at parks. There are tons of free activities throughout the city as well on weekends in particular.

Transportation and parking are an absolute nightmare however, and the 49er syndrome, while grossly exaggerated is definitely a problem, as is the hyper-liberalism. If you can swallow your pride and not talk politics, you can navigate the city either as a visitor or for short term relationships. Crime is rampant everywhere in the bay era, homelessness, drug abuse, prostitution, and general derangement and chaos are just a "normal" part of city life. It's surely ramped up in the past year and a half.

But yeah, I guess I'm nostalgic viewing the city with rose colored glasses. Most guys hate it.
 
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