Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

The 3.5 year 'War of Commit'

hardboiled85

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Three Years ago when I was 33 (at this point I came from an awful 7 year drought so was rusty etc) I went out clubbing and met this young petite girl (24), I’d say a 6.5, who was dancing with her friend, within an hour I made moves on her, we soon got to kissing madly in the back of the club and had a great night all round, I got her number to see where it would lead.

Meeting her some days later I got to find out she was Italian, the youngest of 4 other sisters and a very traditional semi well off family, strong father type and not from divorce. She was very nice and seemingly feminine, but also a bit tomboyish, no tattoos, not into drugs but she does smoke..

As we kept seeing each other, she soon told me she was a virgin (not on the pill which was the first girl I met doing that) and had only really ‘played around with some boy 4 years younger than her, a few years back’ – And had just hooked up kissing sometimes when out with friends — I took her word for it but watched her closely.

She seemed shy and honest but receptive to my advances in terms of handys, oral for me and fingering, a month or so past and she was ready to have sex, we did and to cut this short after some months I told her I am *’not looking for anything too serious but happy to see her more’ – she accepted that and we continued to see each other regularly 3 times per week.

Increasingly we did more relationship-like activities – movies, hiking, dancing etc.

After a year and a bit she became very submissive with me and bonded, I am very sure I was the only one she was after, I played the amount of DREAD and COMFORT just right, she would be VERY competitive but playful about me talking about other girls- sex was always about me, *******s were always offered, rag or no rag, and she didn’t care for herself too much in terms of getting off (as long as I was happy), she told me she was in love and started giving me the talk in terms of asking what I want and that we would be good together, actually this turned into a weekly task of directly or indirectly asking for my commitment.

Though by this point I admit I was complacent and had feelings for her, I still didn’t say I wanted commitment as I didn’t want to settle down.

We did the usual together that couples do and had fun, our humor/personalities were a match though I stuck to my guns and said I didn’t want to give her commitment and not stick to it, she said she didn’t want to lose me.

Around the 20 month mark I noticed more of her character, little slips here and there that reminded me of girls who were more slutty or stuff she knew seems like she knows more than a 'virgin' would, a few crying episodes too and she said the doctor put her on anti-depressants. Around this time was when I found out she smoked pot sometimes and cigarettes. But the sex was good so I just kept her as a plate and didn’t go out into the field much as I had her there and willing whenever I called.

Leading past 2 years as she was 28ish, the commitment and questions rammed up – around this time I was also facing burn out and depression due to my career (IT since 2009), I lost 2 jobs over a 6 month period and as luck would have it COVID started here too..

I should point out I was in this city alone with no family or support – She however was the polar opposite.

My depression got the best of me and I told her I might be leaving the state, she cried and begged me to stay as weeks and months past and we ebbed and flowed between love and high confusion.

One somewhat fateful night I checked her email that she left logged in on my PC, there were messages there of her wanting to meet up with the old guy friend (10 years my junior) – it showed they had met up, she gave him a ******* but apparently didn’t **** because ‘his penis was ‘very big’ and she was nervous about trying’ – He was pushing her to try saying he wants to see if ‘he could fit in her’ and that it just needs to stretch and a bit of lube.

Needless to say I was blown away by how quickly she seemingly monkey branched, I guess she was afraid and scared of loosing her security and comfort of me potentially leaving. But regardless it stings and ruined the entire 3 years we had together, and most importantly it squashed the idea I had about her being a ‘rare good girl that was very nice’.

I didn’t tell her I knew what she did and She still ****ed and gave me *******s leading up to me leaving but was **** testing in an attitude completely different - ****y and brash like 'I've got a new man secured so don't need you' and - calling me the new dudes name to see my reaction, which i just laughed at
Oh we had a good talk about " REAL MEN " soon after she swung to him, he is a construction worker, she started with this "But they are like... REAL MEN" wtf?? so I just said well GO GET ONE LOL, soon you'll be disappointed in how they treat you.
(I didn't know of BPD until recently so if anyone could give opinion if she sounds like that ... or completely psycho)

So yes, I left her and the state and moved back to my parents.

I still had/have her Email, and after checking it around 2 weeks before leaving and after, she already was panicking and had set up Tinder and was trialling a new date on the day I left and today she is still with the same guy (though even when still sending me texts and calling asking if I am coming back etc – possibly to keep my attention in case that guy didn’t work out).
I never contacted her for about 3 months, but would get constant messages and calls from her saying 'how come you never text/call me???" (Geee I wonder why *****).... professing her love and how much she misses me and if I am coming back. Funnly enough as soon as I would offer her to my place in my state - "Its just a simple plane trip here" she suddenly had excuses and "I am the man so it's me that should go to her"


So that’s my report – Looking back it seems like I succeed and gamed her properly, with the right amount of dread and comfort and all the way up to my job loss/COVID and just generally dropping the ball, which was as you could guess was conveniently when she had the old flame ready for her getting dropped by me… The absolute strangest part is that she didn’t **** him or end up dating him. (Especially when the current culture today is all ‘big black ****s’ etc, seems she and women can be type that just needs to be in a relationship.

I got a call from her recently and she has completely gone full ‘light switch’ – ‘I never liked our sex and always faked it’, ‘I had to finish myself off at home, you never made me orgasm’ — She thinks her beta Tinder boyfriend is the best thing and is glad things went they way they did (probably because if she terms it that way she was in full control of her destiny)

All I replied with was ‘I do feel guilty for essentially renting all 3 of your holes for free with no intention of giving you my commitment or stupid enough to marry you’

An me, I am 36, single, never married or no kids. Average height, long term unemployed but still have thick hair no receding as 1+ point (jk)

Well I feel like this has deflated all my hope on women in my life overall. At 36 years old I feel like I am past my prime to score women that are young and the kind I want rather than vicious and past their good **** date 30+ year old offcuts.

Oddly this story I went through has made me believe the world of women is out for my heart and mojo, but mostly because it is almost a repeat of history that I NEVER WANTED TO FEEL AGAIN; 19 years ago when I was a 18, I dated this knockout little hotty teen slut- I had a huge crush for her and we ****ed like rabbits, I went full beta and desperate for just her, she ended up cheating and I found out by … yep you guessed it, Her Email (LOL? God damn it) – and yep that guy coincidentally ‘hurt her’ with his ****, the only difference is she slept with him and the Italian girl did not – which is a plus because being older and more mature I can see that girls probably care little about size, and more about commitment and mostly frame and dominance.
 
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Willie Naylor

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Thanks for sharing that story. And welcome. Sounds like she took you for a spin. We've all been there.

Don't let this experience with her make you become pessimistic and negative towards women. There are good ones out there,

I don't really have anything to critique; this stuff just happens a lot of times in relationships. Things sometimes just get stale. And, as you've experienced, when women leave, it's 99.9% for another guy.

Get back in the gym, read some good books, get back on your grind.
 

2Rocky

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Focus on what those relationships taught you.
1) Remain a Leader in the relationship
2) when your professional life goes to crap it is not rare for the Love life to follow.
3) you maintained a non committed relationship for 3 years plus. That's a win. You CAN do it.
4) She's not your girlfriend ,it's just your turn
5) There are thousands of women like her and there are hundreds better than her too. Keep practicing on the Good Enough's tillyou find a great one.
 

BillyPilgrim

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Italian women generally have huge cases of MPS (Magic Pu$sy Syndrome). Avoid if you can. The feigned virginity, jealousy of other women, pressure to commit, the revenge call. etc, aren't surprising.
 

bmp2cpm

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At 36, you have not yet peaked my friend.

We all have brief moments with a career crisis in our lives. It is inevitable. How you handle it in from of women is crucial. Always downplay the career bumps and dips, otherwise they will consider branch swinging.

Plus, the closer they get to 30 without having that commitment, the more they look to branch swing.

Thanks for sharing. You did great!
 

bat soup

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Three Years ago when I was 33 (at this point I came from an awful 7 year drought so was rusty etc) I went out clubbing and met this young petite girl (24), I’d say a 6.5, who was dancing with her friend, within an hour I made moves on her, we soon got to kissing madly in the back of the club and had a great night all round, I got her number to see where it would lead.

Meeting her some days later I got to find out she was Italian, the youngest of 4 other sisters and a very traditional semi well off family, strong father type and not from divorce. She was very nice and seemingly feminine, but also a bit tomboyish, no tattoos, not into drugs but she does smoke..

As we kept seeing each other, she soon told me she was a virgin (not on the pill which was the first girl I met doing that) and had only really ‘played around with some boy 4 years younger than her, a few years back’ – And had just hooked up kissing sometimes when out with friends — I took her word for it but watched her closely.

She seemed shy and honest but receptive to my advances in terms of handys, oral for me and fingering, a month or so past and she was ready to have sex, we did and to cut this short after some months I told her I am *’not looking for anything too serious but happy to see her more’ – she accepted that and we continued to see each other regularly 3 times per week.

Increasingly we did more relationship-like activities – movies, hiking, dancing etc.

After a year and a bit she became very submissive with me and bonded, I am very sure I was the only one she was after, I played the amount of DREAD and COMFORT just right, she would be VERY competitive but playful about me talking about other girls- sex was always about me, *******s were always offered, rag or no rag, and she didn’t care for herself too much in terms of getting off (as long as I was happy), she told me she was in love and started giving me the talk in terms of asking what I want and that we would be good together, actually this turned into a weekly task of directly or indirectly asking for my commitment.

Though by this point I admit I was complacent and had feelings for her, I still didn’t say I wanted commitment as I didn’t want to settle down.

We did the usual together that couples do and had fun, our humor/personalities were a match though I stuck to my guns and said I didn’t want to give her commitment and not stick to it, she said she didn’t want to lose me.

Around the 20 month mark I noticed more of her character, little slips here and there that reminded me of girls who were more slutty or stuff she knew seems like she knows more than a 'virgin' would, a few crying episodes too and she said the doctor put her on anti-depressants. Around this time was when I found out she smoked pot sometimes and cigarettes. But the sex was good so I just kept her as a plate and didn’t go out into the field much as I had her there and willing whenever I called.

Leading past 2 years as she was 28ish, the commitment and questions rammed up – around this time I was also facing burn out and depression due to my career (IT since 2009), I lost 2 jobs over a 6 month period and as luck would have it COVID started here too..

I should point out I was in this city alone with no family or support – She however was the polar opposite.

My depression got the best of me and I told her I might be leaving the state, she cried and begged me to stay as weeks and months past and we ebbed and flowed between love and high confusion.

One somewhat fateful night I checked her email that she left logged in on my PC, there were messages there of her wanting to meet up with the old guy friend (10 years my junior) – it showed they had met up, she gave him a ******* but apparently didn’t **** because ‘his penis was ‘very big’ and she was nervous about trying’ – He was pushing her to try saying he wants to see if ‘he could fit in her’ and that it just needs to stretch and a bit of lube.

Needless to say I was blown away by how quickly she seemingly monkey branched, I guess she was afraid and scared of loosing her security and comfort of me potentially leaving. But regardless it stings and ruined the entire 3 years we had together, and most importantly it squashed the idea I had about her being a ‘rare good girl that was very nice’.

I didn’t tell her I knew what she did and She still ****ed and gave me *******s leading up to me leaving but was **** testing in an attitude completely different - ****y and brash like 'I've got a new man secured so don't need you' and - calling me the new dudes name to see my reaction, which i just laughed at
Oh we had a good talk about " REAL MEN " soon after she swung to him, he is a construction worker, she started with this "But they are like... REAL MEN" wtf?? so I just said well GO GET ONE LOL, soon you'll be disappointed in how they treat you.
(I didn't know of BPD until recently so if anyone could give opinion if she sounds like that ... or completely psycho)

So yes, I left her and the state and moved back to my parents.

I still had/have her Email, and after checking it around 2 weeks before leaving and after, she already was panicking and had set up Tinder and was trialling a new date on the day I left and today she is still with the same guy (though even when still sending me texts and calling asking if I am coming back etc – possibly to keep my attention in case that guy didn’t work out).
I never contacted her for about 3 months, but would get constant messages and calls from her saying 'how come you never text/call me???" (Geee I wonder why *****).... professing her love and how much she misses me and if I am coming back. Funnly enough as soon as I would offer her to my place in my state - "Its just a simple plane trip here" she suddenly had excuses and "I am the man so it's me that should go to her"


So that’s my report – Looking back it seems like I succeed and gamed her properly, with the right amount of dread and comfort and all the way up to my job loss/COVID and just generally dropping the ball, which was as you could guess was conveniently when she had the old flame ready for her getting dropped by me… The absolute strangest part is that she didn’t **** him or end up dating him. (Especially when the current culture today is all ‘big black ****s’ etc, seems she and women can be type that just needs to be in a relationship.

I got a call from her recently and she has completely gone full ‘light switch’ – ‘I never liked our sex and always faked it’, ‘I had to finish myself off at home, you never made me orgasm’ — She thinks her beta Tinder boyfriend is the best thing and is glad things went they way they did (probably because if she terms it that way she was in full control of her destiny)

All I replied with was ‘I do feel guilty for essentially renting all 3 of your holes for free with no intention of giving you my commitment or stupid enough to marry you’

An me, I am 36, single, never married or no kids. Average height, long term unemployed but still have thick hair no receding as 1+ point (jk)

Well I feel like this has deflated all my hope on women in my life overall. At 36 years old I feel like I am past my prime to score women that are young and the kind I want rather than vicious and past their good **** date 30+ year old offcuts.

Oddly this story I went through has made me believe the world of women is out for my heart and mojo, but mostly because it is almost a repeat of history that I NEVER WANTED TO FEEL AGAIN; 19 years ago when I was a 18, I dated this knockout little hotty teen slut- I had a huge crush for her and we ****ed like rabbits, I went full beta and desperate for just her, she ended up cheating and I found out by … yep you guessed it, Her Email (LOL? God damn it) – and yep that guy coincidentally ‘hurt her’ with his ****, the only difference is she slept with him and the Italian girl did not – which is a plus because being older and more mature I can see that girls probably care little about size, and more about commitment and mostly frame and dominance.
I think you went wrong when you believed that she was a virgin. Virgins don't generally let guys finger them or go around kissing random guys at clubs.
 

hardboiled85

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Thanks for sharing that story. And welcome. Sounds like she took you for a spin. We've all been there.

Don't let this experience with her make you become pessimistic and negative towards women. There are good ones out there,

I don't really have anything to critique; this stuff just happens a lot of times in relationships. Things sometimes just get stale. And, as you've experienced, when women leave, it's 99.9% for another guy.

Get back in the gym, read some good books, get back on your grind.
No problem, I think you are right and I've heard similar which made me feel better - "Your Attraction and alphaness in their eyes will fade or get tarnished sooner or later", or she gets bored and "NEEDED TO FEEL'
3 years is a good run to get out of a girl JUST BEFORE she hits the wall + no kid + no baggage and I left clean of her...
I'm focusing on trying to approach more, a tenet of my game lacking the most as I usually wait for clear cut full on signs etc

Focus on what those relationships taught you.
1) Remain a Leader in the relationship
2) when your professional life goes to crap it is not rare for the Love life to follow.
3) you maintained a non committed relationship for 3 years plus. That's a win. You CAN do it.
4) She's not your girlfriend ,it's just your turn
5) There are thousands of women like her and there are hundreds better than her too. Keep practicing on the Good Enough's tillyou find a great one.
Yes when I look at the timeline, how much and how hard she was pleading for 'commitment' and my answer more or less stayed the same for 3 years, (Along with the fact she was my ******* doll that drove 1 hr each way to do so and went out of her way to please me etc) yeah I will pat myself on the back the back there, although I definately didn't plan on Alpha widowing her... but hey I guess that's her payback.


Italian women generally have huge cases of MPS (Magic Pu$sy Syndrome). Avoid if you can. The feigned virginity, jealousy of other women, pressure to commit, the revenge call. etc, aren't surprising.
Yeah the darker side was held back until the last 5 months - it was just wierd timing - covid starting + my career + her turning 28 and hitting the lock someone down stage and by her words "I tried to change you for 3 years, I couldn't wait forever, you never even told me you loved me" waaaa

At 36, you have not yet peaked my friend.

We all have brief moments with a career crisis in our lives. It is inevitable. How you handle it in from of women is crucial. Always downplay the career bumps and dips, otherwise they will consider branch swinging.

Thanks for sharing. You did great!
Thanks, IT was always a career for bills as I build my creative/artistic abilities/passion on side - though her family were well off and knew how much I hated the work, so losing/leaving jobs etc was no surprise to her and probably only increased my alpha credit... but COVID being a once in a century thing and the pressure there and me being without any good friends or any family for 1200kms was probably the first time she had seen me 'not looking alpha/ as strong' so in a little girls head when this younger alpha kid from her past come back - with that fake confidence and still living at mum and dads and covid having little affect on him,... she is only going to compare the feels and see he is acting happy and horny ie how I was when I met her = branch swing.

I suppose when I say peaked I mean - the ability to **** young tight ones, I don't know how, literally how to 'mature' and probably accept that it's all close to wall women from now.

I think you went wrong when you believed that she was a virgin. Virgins don't generally let guys finger them or go around kissing random guys at clubs.
I never really 'believed it' - I have had a few LTRs and seen my share of different women, but never a 'virgin' especially at 24.
I would always hit her low over different months with "did you just wake up at 22 and decide to be a virgin?" and sarcastically "I am a virgin" Which would prompt her to revert to a girl and start crying "I really wish you would believe me about that, it hurts"

Her best girlfriend she said they would often go out before she met me, 'but it was only hooking up' ... So *******s then? "No just kissing and stuff ...Riiight .. I am virgin

As I said, only this year did I start researching 'BPD' - and that was the MAIN reason I never committed, there was something OFF about her, I always felt like she was lying about something or that her eyes held a lot of pain
I've never had a girl so OBSESSED WITH MY COMMITMENT AND LOYAL but at the same time she seemed to chameleon her life and interests to match most of me...
+
her story not matching up traditional family upbringing and seemingly a good early life... so why the depression? why antidepressants??
Is she a reformed clut slut
+ the fact her ***** felt loose and beef curtins. :)
 
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Bandolero

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Dude .

You are leading this girl on for years without the intention of becoming official , and now you are butthurt that she has found a better Pole.
 

hardboiled85

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Dude .

You are leading this girl on for years without the intention of becoming official , and now you are butthurt that she has found a better Pole.
Not at all man, she was a plate and knew the score - THE SCORE: 'I am not looking for anything serious ' HER: OK i don't mind -- rinse repeat f 52 weeks x 3 years, but she was still at me for commitment for 2+ years - weekly. I guess it was a lock down an alpha challenge..

Seems very want your cake and eat it too to expect me to accept her girl verion of a marriage proposal "commitment" and telling me she LOVES ME, yet she was building up a back up alpha.
I found a text to her best friend 5 months before this all went down -- "XX (old crush friend) wants to meet up.. I am not ready" - so even if I did commit, this ship was going to sink anyhow... so no, me plating her and RIGHTFULLY KEEPING HER AT A DISTANCE UNDER SUPREME SUSPICION was not a mistake, but believing she was 'in love' and WANTS TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP, was a mistake on my part. So this all went down how I wanted it to.
She disrespected my boundaries and DROPPED HER 2 YEAR HIGH INTEREST LEVEL MASK OF NICE GIRL LOVE when my CHIPS WERE SEEMINGLY DOWN (Lucky I didn't marry her and find this out with a son under her), SO - I kicked her to the curb and left her ass... And the other guy pumped and dumped her, leaving her with a desperate tinder boy, who is now all emotional and went full supplicant for her.
 
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SammyNfor

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I found a text to her best friend 5 months before this all went down -- "XX (old crush friend) wants to meet up.. I am not ready" - so even if I did commit, this ship was going to sink anyhow... so no, me plating her and RIGHTFULLY KEEPING HER AT A DISTANCE UNDER SUPREME SUSPICION was not a mistake, but believing she was 'in love' and WANTS TO TAKE THE NEXT STEP, was a mistake on my part. So this all went down how I wanted it to.
She disrespected my boundaries and DROPPED HER 2 YEAR HIGH INTEREST LEVEL MASK OF NICE GIRL LOVE when my CHIPS WERE SEEMINGLY DOWN (Lucky I didn't marry her and find this out with a son under her), SO - I kicked her to the curb and left her ass... And the other guy pumped and dumped her, leaving her with a desperate tinder boy, who is now all emotional and went full supplicant for her.
My dude, I'll like to respectfully disagree. She was pushing for commitment, you disagreed...fair enough. But I don't understand how you expected her not to go looking for someone else. She wasn't getting any younger. I think in this case you're the one who ate your cake and wanted it back.
 

Macadellic

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I’m with OP on this one.

This girl LIED through her teeth to OP’s face about being a virgin. Hmm, what else did this girl lie about in 3.5 years? And last time I checked the only woman to have a child AND be a virgin is Virgin Saint Mary Mother of Christ.

Let’s recap the inter gender dynamics of both sexual strategies in this particular relationship.

Women with experience are great at deception.
- this girl presented herself as something she’s not
Men with experience are great at detection.
- OP knew something was up with this girl

Men compete for sex.
- Raise your value, be better, etc. Alpha fuxx
Women compete for relationships.
- It’s the woman’s job to push for a commitment from the man NOT the other way because it’s the woman that gains everything and the man can potentially lose everything.

Mental Point of Origin
- think for yourself and live life on your terms. OP did not want a serious committed relationship and effectively communicated this maintaining his frame throughout the relationship. OP was authentic and transparent (something this girl wasn’t).

lol at anyone coming into this thread in a futile frivolous attempt to shame OP and favor the disrespectful behavior of this girl.

Talk about holding a man accountable while the woman has zero responsibility and consequences for her actions.
 

SammyNfor

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lol at anyone coming into this thread in a futile frivolous attempt to shame OP and favor the disrespectful behavior of this girl.
No one is shaming OP. OP didn't want a committed relationship. The girl went about finding other guys as she should if she is not in a committed relationship. What's the problem with that? I honestly don't see anything wrong the girl did here.
 

Macadellic

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No one is shaming OP.
You are leading this girl on for years
I think in this case you're the one who ate your cake and wanted it back.
OP communicated throughout the relationship that he DID NOT want a serious commitment.

OP was authentic AND transparent.


The girl went about finding other guys
Behind his back while simultaneously presenting herself to be a high quality honest woman of a virgin deserving of a serious commitment.

What's the problem with that? I honestly don't see anything wrong the girl did here.
She LIED about
- being a virgin
- being honest
- being childless
 

SammyNfor

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Talk about holding a man accountable while the woman has zero responsibility and consequences for her actions.
And I also think we should hold OP accountable. As men, we should hold each other accountable and encourage each other to strive to improve.
OP is:
1. Unemployed
2. Living with parents
3. For some reason, depressed
4. Insecure - checking a "plates" email constantly.
And he says the girl is trying to tie down an "alpha". What alpha?! OP has a lot of things to fix and it doesn't help blaming a girl who was just playing the game like he was.
 

Macadellic

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As men, we should hold each other accountable and encourage each other to strive to improve
Yes, iron sharpens iron.

OP is:
1. Unemployed
2. Living with parents
3. For some reason, depressed
4. Insecure - checking a "plates" email constantly.
And he says the girl is trying to tie down an "alpha". What alpha?! OP has a lot of things to fix and it doesn't help blaming a girl who was just playing the game like he was.
A man’s test of loyalty is when he is successful.
A woman’s test of loyalty is when her man becomes unsuccessful.

She began the monkey branch when OP became unsuccessful.

Part of the “game” is the burden of performing we as men have that women do not.
 

Epimanes

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I stopped reading after you had kept telling her you didn't want anything serious..... and so ... imho.. she behaved in accordance with you... mirrored you...


Kinda got given what you gave from that point...

Good luck.
 

firstbornunicorn

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I've said it before, will say again: a high quality woman that has options won't be in a casual relationship for this long.
 

hardboiled85

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I stopped reading after you had kept telling her you didn't want anything serious..... and so ... imho.. she behaved in accordance with you... mirrored you...


Kinda got given what you gave from that point...

Good luck.
Yeah all good - I got exclusive use of all three holes for 2 years, so what if she wasted 3 years of her prime years and flushed it right at the end of her twenties, jokes on her i guess -- my life was the same and I didn't have to commit and got out more or less unscathed.
 

SammyNfor

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Age
34
Yeah all good - I got exclusive use of all three holes for 2 years, so what if she wasted 3 years of her prime years and flushed it right at the end of her twenties, jokes on her i guess -- my life was the same and I didn't have to commit and got out more or less unscathed.
Yet here you are writing a post moaning about how she is with her new "Tinder" boyfriend?
Also not exclusive, as you just indicated, she was seeing other people.
 
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