Strength and vulnerability

[Serenity]

Women don't want weak men, they also don't want men who are emotionally closed off.

To show emotion is to expose vulnerability, it can be used to hurt you because it matters to you. If you never show vulnerability then it seems like you can't be hurt, right? True, but why is this a bad thing? It also means you don't have emotion, that you don't care about anything, including her. If you have no heart, if there is no good in you, then she's not safe.

Strength is important, but it seemingly collides with being vulnerable, exposing one's own weakness. That is one perspective, but another is that the entire point of strength is to protect what you care about from anything that seeks to destroy it.

There are guys out there who are plenty strong both in mind and body, but have no heart. There are also plenty guys out there with heart, but with little to protect it. Then there's the guys who shamelessly shows the world who they are while also standing up for themselves and others.

Women want the man who is able to care, but also capable of protecting what he cares about.

I see far too often ways of thinking where one attribute comes at the expense of the other. Being a strong cold-hearted badass or being a softie that will bend to anyone. Like with many things in life, the answer is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.

The entire purpose of strength is to protect if you're anywhere on the good side of the moral spectrum. If you're on the bad side it's obviously to conquer, but even then the woman needs to feel like she's cared for, that the strength applied isn't used against her.

Being vulnerable is hard, harder than many things. It actually takes a type of strength to expose it willingly, emotional strength. Being capable of dealing with the bad outcomes of sharing vulnerable information about oneself in ways where it doesn't cause harm, or at least minimal harm.

Women see enough physically strong guys, they also see plenty of intellectually strong guys, but the emotionally strong guy is actually a bit rare. The guy who can be vulnerable without letting anyone break him by trying to use his vulnerabilities against him.

Ultimately strength and vulnerability aren't two opposing attributes, they're independent and both can be increased without one being at the expense of the other.

 

[zekko]

For some reason this post reminds me of cats and dogs, who have claws and can bite, but if they trust you they will lay on their back and expose their belly.

 

[Barrister]

I think there’s a lot of truth to what you say. My issue is that personal experience usually shows that any time any vulnerability gets shown it seems like it comes off as some type of weakness to the woman. It may be subconscious on her part, but she begins to react a different way to the man once she has been shown there’s a chink in the armor so to speak.

To be clear - I think there are many women who don’t operate this way. The problem is I think MOST women operate this way. Which makes it a risky proposition for the man to decide to be vulnerable unless he considers all his relationships disposable at a moments notice.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I said something along the lines in another post of: The less someone is absorbed in their own insecurities, the more open and attractive they become to others. Some people protect themselves so fiercely, always guarded and defensive, that they end up isolating themselves. The same walls that keep them safe also trap them, making real connection and emotional growth almost impossible.

 

[Travel memoir21]

A good woman will appreciate your vulnerability as a Man aslong as your level headed and balance in your approach.

 

[BPH]

A good woman will appreciate your vulnerability as a Man aslong as your level headed and balance in your approach.

No, they absolutely will not.

They may SAY they appreciate it, and in the moment, they might praise you for being open, vulnerable, and sensitive...but holy hell...9/10 times your insecurities/problems/concerns/whatever WILL be weaponized against you next time there's a fight.

They also will not be private. They will be a topic of discussion among her friend group.

Keep your problems to yourself.

This does NOT mean you need to be guarded as all hell - but you should not be talking about your problems to people without the power to fix them. Speaking from experience.

 

[pipeman84]

I think this Zan Perrion quote fits perfectly with this thread:

Here is the secret of the ages, the secret of men whom women eternally love: They are father figures and little boys—simultaneously! There you go. I’ve never heard anyone say that before, but I am convinced it is true. Leadership and vulnerability, a lightning combination that is utterly impossible for women to resist. A woman wants to be put in her place by a leader and, at the same
time, she wants to take care of him immensely. She wants him to stand guard at the mouth of the cave, fire-torch in hand, majestic and defiant against the elements in one moment, then crawl into her lap like a kitten the next. The leader side of them is never aggressive or controlling; it is firm and in command. And the boyish side of them is never mewling or pitiable; it is playful and beaming and in need of a bath.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Dunno about "vulnerability"(Potentially hazardous, if you've taken a modern-day Belle Gunness into your bed), nonetheless candor is definitely imperative... Express your needs and desires out loud, with clarity and conviction

 

[The Duke]

Showing vulnerability and expressing personal emotion to a woman is ok until it causes her to feel insecure and she starts to question your ability to be her strong protector.

Each woman has different degrees of when her insecurities are triggered and it varies with the topic/situation.

Emotional men aren't typically viewed as men of strength. Any overly emotional being lacks self-control. Women are given more of a free pass on that than men.

 

[Serenity]

I think there’s a lot of truth to what you say. My issue is that personal experience usually shows that any time any vulnerability gets shown it seems like it comes off as some type of weakness to the woman. It may be subconscious on her part, but she begins to react a different way to the man once she has been shown there’s a chink in the armor so to speak.

To be clear - I think there are many women who don’t operate this way. The problem is I think MOST women operate this way. Which makes it a risky proposition for the man to decide to be vulnerable unless he considers all his relationships disposable at a moments notice.

You're not wrong, but "unless he considers all his relationships disposable at a moments notice" is very important here. That comes back as strength if she knows you absolutely will not tolerate having your vulnerabilities used against you in any way.

I don't think hiding part of oneself in order to keep a woman is any better or sustainable in the long run. Personally I would rather be open and just dump her if she has any sort of problem with it.

I do get why men hide this, but I consider that weaker than to expose oneself and knowing how to handle it.

Emotional men aren't typically viewed as men of strength. Any overly emotional being lacks self-control. Women are given more of a free pass on that than men.

I want to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that I am not talking about being at the whim of one's own emotions. I am talking about the exact opposite, expressing what they are while having it very much under control.

If you're trauma dumping and crying uncontrollably being consumed by your emotions in front of a woman then she will indeed see a lack of strength. If I talk about the sh!t I've experienced which at the time was indeed traumatic I'm not overcome by negative emotions, it's just what happened and in spite of that I stand strong today. It tells a story of overcoming instead of being overcome.

If there's any such moment you haven't already overcome then it probably is a bad idea to share it, because they will see that you are overcome by it rather than the other way around. That you're too weak to overcome it than strong enough to overcome it.

If you're keeping it in regardless then there's still fear driving your decisions. I don't fear women or their judgement, what I do fear is stuffing down my true self again because that sh!t hurt more than whatever some woman can do to me. So this is why I'd rather tell a woman to fvck off before concealing parts of myself, I am who I am, take it or fvcking leave it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

For some reason this post reminds me of cats and dogs, who have claws and can bite, but if they trust you they will lay on their back and expose their belly.

Yes...and while the dog is saying "please give me a belly rub!", the cat is saying "See, I trust you enough to know that you won't try and touch my belly even tho I am showing it to you! Wait...what?? You are trying to rub my belly...you liar!! You can't be trusted!" And then BITE.

Essentially, trying to rub a cat's belly is failing the cats sh!t test.

And God help you if you commit with the full hand belly rub...suddenly you have walked right into their trap and they figure four your hand with all 4 paws, claws drawn while they give you an angry bite for your betrayal, then spring away before you even know what just happened.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

I try to get women to show vulnerability and open up first, before I consider doing it myself. That rules out a good chunk of them right off the bat.

If I do I invite them, in I'm extremely careful of what I share; it's one of the few 'manipulative' things I do with women - basically giving them breadcrumbs, half-truths, with some obfuscation and misdirection. "Oh yeah, I'm feeling troubled because [insert surface level BS about work stress or and family health problems]" meanwhile in reality I may be I suffering silently in existential despair as I ponder how I am going to get over another seemingly impossible hurdle that or process another childhood trauma that has suddenly resurfaced. She can suspect there's more going on and guess all she wants but I'm not giving her an inch. I'll tell her how I feel, but I won't tell her why.

So basically my approach is to show that I am indeed vulnerable and human by admitting to having feelings like depression or anxiety or whatever, but I do so without actually giving them any dirt. I have never and will never tell them what is really eating me or how bad it really is or why it's happening or how long it's been going on or what my life was like growing up. Few people will ever have that privilege, even my closest friends have a tenuous grasp at best. No one should have to be burdened by another person's deepest insecurities and personal issues, especially in the context of dating. Your job is to be her rock.