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So am I screwed? Paypal problem

Skel

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I use to play World of Warcraft. I no longer play it. I still had an active account. I posted it on ebay for sale. Someone emailed me saying they would send me the money via paypal for it. I got on AIM and chatted with the person for about 20 minutes about the transaction. He sent the money paypal and I verirfied by checking this of course. As soon as the money was sent, I sent him the account information and pulled the listing off ebay. I transferred the money in papyal to my checking account almost immediately.

The other party took the WOW account over and put it under his name. 2 days later I get an email from paypal saying the transfer was unauthorized and to log in and give information about the transaction. Their only options were to 1) refund the money to the party or 2)give proof the item was shipped with a tracking number. I called papyal and a representative told me to use the tracking number option but just leave under comments that it was a virtual item and leave as much info as possible which I did. I even specified that I had the email between me and the other party as well as the Instant messages. Paypal never contacted me after that to get the information. They sent an email about 7 days later saying I owed them the money back and my account is now listed as negative x dollars.

I have already got the money in my bank account. Is there anything they can do to physically take the money back and is there anything I can do to avoid this? Its quite a bit of money and Im not sure what to do from this poitn on or if Im basicaly screwed because its a virtual item and I have no real proof that I sold the person this item other than the email and Instant mesages we sent back and forth. Also the name of the paypal owner is different from the person's email who i was chatting with. I figured it was the child of the person using the paypal account so this really wasnt something I was thinking of at the time.

any help appreciated.
 

Mr. Wolf

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Yes, you are screwed. PayPal is a bunch of indian men and women trying to please the buyer.. As a buyer that screws the sellers I know just how easy it is to do it..

As a buyer I never use PayPal direct transfer, only credit card through PayPal, and even then American Express..

With American express, you call them, they handle it.. Good enough reasona dn you get your money back. What PayPal does? Nothing.. They are a joke..

As a seller on eBay, I don't accept PayPal... Send me check or money order. I used to accept cash too, but now eBay says it's against the policy. Check or Money order. If it doesn't get to me, well then buyer can send me direct transfer via PayPal, and I never tell him that I ship the item, I just transfer money to my checking and ship it slow..

Why do people screw each other? I never screwed anyone or commited a crime I didn't have to - almost.


Here is your only hope.. Contact WOW and get your account back. Tell them an unauthorized person got a hold of it, don't tell them the details. Just tell that someone got your password, then got a hold of your account, and you want it back. Don't tell them that you sold it, etc.. Becuase you never did.. Someone hacked it..

Either you get that account back, or you get a new one. You did use credit card for that account didn't you? If they don't, call your credit card company..

(from now on guys, get American Express card and use it exclussively)


If that dont' work, you can sue the person.. Tranvel the country and all that.. Sue them. Find out where they live, rent a motel room, go there at night, apply some silicon glue to car's glass, puncture tires, etc.. Then go to court in the morning.. All that drama.. Ahhhh.


You can also move on with your life and learn a valuable lesson.. Which is, AIM is rubish, you've got played.. I'd be mad at first, and then I'd persue life with passion because of that, living every second to the fullest.. Though you can't hate the guy, because you can do the same.. He ain't no player either, he's a back stabber..
 

Skel

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Im not worried about getting my account back. I could care less. What im worried about is paypal coming after me for the money they say i owe them. My papyal account is at a negative balance right now because they say I owe them the money for wich they refunded the buyer. I was just curious if there was any way for paypal to try to take back the funds or of I just stop using the account.
 

Firepower

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Skel said:
I use to play World of Warcraft. I still had an active account. I posted it on ebay for sale. Someone emailed me saying they would send me the money via paypal for it. I got on AIM and chatted with the person for about 20 minutes about the transaction. He sent the money paypal and I verirfied by checking this of course. As soon as the money was sent, I sent him the account information and pulled the listing off ebay.
You intended to circumvent paying an ebay/paypal fee with an off ebay transaction to save a few quarters.

PayPal can suck, but in this case they are not greedy Indians - you tried to outsmart them and somebody outsmarted you.
 

backbreaker

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aboutpaypal.org
nopaypal.com
paypalsucks.com
paypalwarning.com

any idiot that uses paypal...well..

I'm so bad when I buy stuff off ebay I will literarly send a money order if I have to. I refuse to use paypal
 

iqqi

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Don't let that guy just scam you. If you can get your wow account back, you should! Just so that guy doesn't get away with fvcking you.

And yes, Paypal sucks monkey balls. Everyone knows this.
 

backbreaker

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g g g unit said:
is there an alternative

for ebay i use bidpay

however more times than not, I use western union. Wetsren Union gets the worse rep on earth. most peole when they think of Wetsern Union think of Fraud and Nigeria. However, most dumbasses send thousands of dollars to guys who speak broken english and want you to get the money to them as fast as possible, with no references

A little common sense goes a LONG way. Call the guy you are dealing with. if it sounds like a legit business, it probably IS a legit business. I will NeVER send a dime to a guy I can't pick up the phone and talk to. No if ands or buts.

You don't have to deal with limited accoutns, you know they got paid, and they can usually ship out that same day.
 

azanon

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I assume paypal refunded the money to the buyer. So what did the buyer say when you discussed the situation with him? If he's honest, either he'll give the money back to paypal or give it to you so you can pay paypal.
 

Mr. Wolf

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backbreaker said:
I'm so bad when I buy stuff off ebay I will literarly send a money order if I have to. I refuse to use paypal


Let's see here.. The guy cashes your check or money order, waits for it to clear if he has to, and then does not send you anything.. What do you do then? Nothing.. Because you are screwed..


Man, are you for real with that thinking? Unless you were raised in projects you should know better.. In fact I think if you were raised in projects you'd be street smart, good with money and all that. Wherever you were raised they done a crappy job. Go back and tell them to raise you again.


As a seller you want to receive money order or check, or cash..


As a buyer, you want to send a credit card payment, or yes, even PayPal payment (aka direct transfer). Preferably, and if you smart, you would send a credit card payment through PayPal. That way you have two layers of protection.

A) PayPal is protecting you.
B) Credit card is protecting you.​

If you even smarter than that and if your credit is good your credit card of choice would be American Express.

With this tactic all you have to do is call American Express, tell them you want to dispute that charge, tell them why, and that's all.. They investigate and give you your money back.. Sometimes they give you your money back immediately.. See, less stress in your life means you can learn even more new things..


Backbreacker, dude man dude, stop talking crap.. You don't know what you talking about.. Just be quiet..
 

azanon

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I'm no fan of paypal, but what are you going to do? (especially as a seller). I guess Ive used it about 10 times now, including as a seller of a used car which sold for $4400. So far, I haven't been screwed yet.

But I do think this (like it or not): If you really want to insure that you don't get many bids nowadays, make sure you eBay advertisement says money order or cashier's check only. That way the 90% or so of buyers who want to pay immediately will know to avoid your item.
 

bigjohnson

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You should have recourse with Blizzard. I'd get the account back - it has value even if you're not gonna play it. You PAID for the game and probably the expansion, that is a license to use the software and it has value.
 

Mr. Wolf

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I've been thinking exactly the same way, until I found that there is no difference. People will bid whether you offer paypal or not. I will bid whether they offer paypal or not.

I use these terms:

TERMS

PAYMENT MUST BE RECEIVED WITHIN 10 DAYS OF AUCTION CLOSURE. YOU WILL BE SENT INVOICE. I ACCEPT PERSONAL AND CASHIER'S CHECKS, MONEY ORDERS. ITEM WILL BE SHIPPED AFTER PAYMENT CLEARS. SHIPPING COST IN LOWER 48 U.S. STATES IS $18. SHIPPING OUTSIDE U.S. IS ACCEPTABLE, BUT CONTACT BEFOREHAND FOR A QUOTE.

Not threatening, not offencive, just my terms in a nice language.. If I'd say check or money order only, or if no payment is received I will give you negative feedback, or any other bs like that, then I'm a person to stay away from..

The only problem with check or money order is if it does not arrive. Meaning buyer send it but post office didn't get it to you, it got lost or something. I had that happen once, I might have it happening again with one of my items. In such a case I tell the buyer I didn't receive your payment, appologize, give him option to wait, send it again, or he could pay it through PayPal via direct transfer..

I would prefer paypal's direct transfer, those payments I could receive without converting my account to merchant type. But eBay does not allow that, if you using paypal you should accept all forms of payment..

It sux beause A) you have to convert your account to merchant type, and B) credit card charge backs become your reality..

Buyers bidding less on your items plays no role, from my experience..
 

azanon

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I'm glad i saw this thread. As a seller (usually), i'll just wait 2-3 days after the transaction before shipping (to ensure the money transfers to my checking account and to ensure Paypal doesn't have issues with the transaction).

I wouldn't think a buyer would give me a negative feedback for shipping 2-3 business days after the paypal if, for no other reason, because common sense will tell them I'd most certainly return the favor.

With eBay, the seller is inherently in a position of power no matter what form of payment one uses.
 

Mr. Wolf

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Well, I have to disagree with that statement, the seller is in position of power. Absolutely not, only if you use check, money order, or cash, you are, otherwise you are not.


A buyer could buy a big buck item from you, decide that he doesn't have money for it, or whatever, file a dispute with paypal or credit card company, and get his money back..


Buyer has all the power. In fact, eBay and PayPal policies (and they are the same entity) are so that buyer feels safe to bid and pay.. When you selling things could go south fast, and for any reason..

Thus, a buyer is protected much more than a seller is protected..


In your line of business, selling cars, you must accept all forms of payment. Because that speaks to the buyers that you are trust worthy. In your reality, chareback is a real possibility as well.. You must be prepaired to fight it, and if need be take it to courts.. Again, that the whole nother level of selling right there.. Big guy things.. For a small time seller, cash is the best thing..
 

azanon

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Mr. Wolf said:
Well, I have to disagree with that statement, the seller is in position of power. Absolutely not, only if you use check, money order, or cash, you are, otherwise you are not.


A buyer could buy a big buck item from you, decide that he doesn't have money for it, or whatever, file a dispute with paypal or credit card company, and get his money back..


Buyer has all the power. In fact, eBay and PayPal policies (and they are the same entity) are so that buyer feels safe to bid and pay.. When you selling things could go south fast, and for any reason..

Thus, a buyer is protected much more than a seller is protected..
If I paid first and the money's sitting in my checking account, what am I worried about? As long as I did nothing wrong, I will own them in a lawsuit (that they'd have to file and, lets be honest, they won't do that for the petty amounts I toss around on eBay).

As for credit report attacks, I'm fully armed on how to dispute those and ensure they don't stick. Even if they do, I have no intentions of borrowing money anytime soon.


In your line of business, selling cars, you must accept all forms of payment.
woah there. I'm no car salesman! I sold a used car 2-3 years ago. The next time I will do that will be 6 years from now probably.

Bottom line, if i'm paid first, I wouldnt hurt to pray that I send you the item. Of course I will, but at least recognize its completely up to me whether I actually do so. That your money is taken permanently is all but fact.

Buyers, on the other hand, pay in full first and hope the seller is honest. In essense, a buyer might as well cross his fingers and hope for the best.
 

Mr. Wolf

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No buddy. As a buyer, I can only be screwed if I send you cash or money order..


If I send you check, I can call my bank and cancel it, then your bank will charge you for canceled check..

If I send you paypal, then I file dispute and get my money back..

If I send you credit card payment, then I file dispute with my credit card company and get my money back..



To your original premise - that sellers are protected - no they are not.. Buyers are protected, not sellers..



Ok, so as a seller you think you're protected? You think, if buyer screwed you can sue him? You can. Question is, do you want to? Do you want to go from NY to LA and file a law suit, then go back, wait 5 months, and go back again, and go on to mediation, then go back and wait again and go another mediation, then do the same thing and finally maybe you get to go to court.. Then maybe your buyer decided to no show, you repeat the whole process and eventually maybe you get your money back.. Was it worth it?? Do you really want to sue the buyer??


The buyer has all protection in the world.. Seller is just a chimp, who sometimes is taken advantage off.. That's true on eBay, that's true in any online venue, that is even true in local markets..


There is a difference between reality we love to create to feel at ease, and the reality that exists.. Learn the difference..
 

azanon

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Mr. Wolf said:
If I send you check, I can call my bank and cancel it, then your bank will charge you for canceled check..
A personal check? Who takes those on ebay :D Paypal, money order, or cashier's check.

If I send you paypal, then I file dispute and get my money back..
.... from paypal. And ... maybe. In either event, I could not give a rats ass. I have your money.

If I send you credit card payment, then I file dispute with my credit card company and get my money back..
... from your credit card company. Again, I have your money.

To your original premise - that sellers are protected - no they are not.. Buyers are protected, not sellers..
I continue to wait on one example of how you are going to get money out of my checking account that I will confirm is in there before I ship.

Ok, so as a seller you think you're protected? You think, if buyer screwed you can sue him?
Why would I have to sue if I confirm i'm paid? (this is a rhetorical question) If you want your money back, you're the one that's going to have to sue.

The buyer has all protection in the world.. Seller is just a chimp, who sometimes is taken advantage off.. That's true on eBay, that's true in any online venue, that is even true in local markets..
If you can think of just one example of how you could take me, I'd like hear it. So far, you haven't given one example.

..........

Put your money where your mouth is. Tell you what, I'll list a pencil for $100. You pay me with paypal, and then try to get your money back from me. Prove you're more protected than me!

............

I'd never buy anything expensive on eBay. Only a sucker would buy something expensive on eBay from a non-reputable company or, heaven forbid, from some individual you don't know!
 

Mr. Wolf

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Dude, you live in the la la land.. Have you seen lalapopotamus there yet? Going all scientific on me and stuff, I'm just telling you how it is, you can extract what you need, or not..


Mr. Wolf said:
As a buyer that screws the sellers I know just how easy it is to do it..
 

azanon

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Mr. Wolf said:
Dude, you live in the la la land.. Have you seen lalapopotamus there yet? Going all scientific on me and stuff, I'm just telling you how it is, you can extract what you need, or not..
LOL. Hey, I'm hear to learn from anyone that can teach me something. I'm carefully listening to how I am vulnerable.

You pay with paypal, I log onto paypal, see the amount deposited, and immediately ACS transfer to my checking account. 2 days later (it takes 2-3 days), I see the amount in full in my checking account. I then ship.

As soon as you tell me how I am vulnerable at any stage in this, you will show me how I am vulnerable as a seller. Until then, lets be honest, you lost this debate.

............

The OP is paid. Its the buyer that will lose his account as soon as he works with blizzard on getting it back.
 
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