Should I have closed the deal?

[Mercury21]

This is an interesting situation, so let me give you the quick background on it

There is this girl in one of my college classes whom I have been chatting with since the first day. We only have class together 2 days out of the week, but on those two days we would always talk after class for an hour or so

Not my usual style to talk to girls for that long, but it all naturally happened. Ok, 2 weeks of that and I really get the feeling that she is interested in me. So one day after another really long talk I ask for her number.

I hand over my pen and notebook to her, and she then writes down BOTH her Cell and Home number! Great, right? Yep...she wants me

That was this last Monday. So today, Friday I call her up around noon and tell her that I am going to catch a movie tonight..."why don't you come along..?"

She definently went for it, and even started blabbering away again...she kept me on the phone for nearly 15 minutes after my "invite" before I finally cut her off.

Let me just insert this note here: The only reason I invited her to come out to the movies and not some "action" date is beacause, #1, it is damn cold over here today..supposed to even snow later. #2, I remember her saying that she doesn't drink(DAMN ) and #3: I remember her also saying that she likes to go to the movies. So...I figured, just for now, it would be an acceptable date.

Ok, so she gets off work at 10:30 and immedietly calls me up wanting to meet up at the theater. So I show up, buy our tickets and wait for her inside.

She shows up about 15 mintues later, looking all made over and nice...in other words: it didnt look like she had just got off work. I imagine she hurried home and did her make up, put on some nice clothes and that is why she was late.

Thats Great! So I keep cool, make some funny comments as we walk to the theater, and basically just let her talk the whole time.

Ok, this is where I need you guys to pay attention!

During the movie we sat next to eachother with nothing big really happening between us. Only a little low chit chat.

THEN, half way through she begins to sit in this diagonal position, with her head practically on my shoulder, but not quite. And her left hand was all but reaching out towards mine.

Nope, I didn't take it..and just played it cool for a little bit. Then, out of no where she says, "See, this is how cold my hands are.." she then takes my hand with hers and holds it momentarily.

So then I thought, "what the hell" and held her hand for the duration of the movie.....during which time she would rub her thumb up and down my hand and up my sleeve a little. Being very affectionate.

After the movie is finished we walk out together into the cold only to find that we parked on opposite ends of the parking lot. I ask her to give me a ride to my car, which of course she does. When we get to my car, we stayed in hers talking for a while longer.

Now, I wasn't getting in body language from her that said, "kiss me" or anything like that. She was sitting in a kind of distant position, although she kept talking and talking to me in the most natural way. I thought about just leaning over and doing it, but at the same time I don't want to come off as needy or pushy. Finally I just said goodbye, walked out and over to my car and got in. She waited in her car next to mine until I turned it on, and kept trying to talk to me.

I just rolled down my window, smiled and said, "bye, see ya later" and we both drove off in separate directions.

Ok, now I want you guys to let me have it. Do you think it was a good plan to not want to push things to soon by not kissing her? Or do you think that I should have just gone for it anyway? Who cares about what happens?

I must point out that she is not your typical "slut looking for a ONS" that we so commonly pick up in clubs. No, she is more of the "pretty, although innocent stay at home" kind of nice girl. Remember, she doesn't even drink!

Now my plan is not to call her for the rest of the weekend, and only talk to her again on Monday when we will see eachother in class. There I will invite her to go get coffee or something after class. This all of course assuming she doesn't call me between now and then.

So give me your opinions guys...please!

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Your whole post was about all the positive signs of interest you observed - of course you could have gone for the kiss but is might have been a littile awkward in the car (I prefer standing up), so I understand why you didnt do it. Go for it on the second date, if you are in a private situation!

I think she was pursuing you.

 

[Mercury21]

Thanks PR Lover!

Ok, thanks for letting me know that all of her signs were in fact "positive signs" and I wasn't just imagining things!

So you think I could have just gone for it?

Clear this up for me: Do you think it is possible for a girl to show all the postive signs that she likes you, then at the end of the first date purpously not give you the buying signals?

I think this is possible, but it just never happened to me before. In the past, everytime a girl showed interest it usually led to some kind of "action" later that night.

Maybe its because she is more of a nice girl? This could all be part of her plan,right? Is it possible for there still be girls out there who don't believe in kissing on the first date?

 

[coldcoal]

That little thing she did with her thumb...that wasn't affection. It was ment to distract your attention away from the movie and onto her. Did you look at her when she did this? Did she offer up a smile? That was your opportunity.

The atmosphere of a brightly lit and busy parking lot isn't as inviting to opportunity as a dark movie theatre. It wasn't her dating morals that got in the way. It was mood. She hung around and yapped because she was trying to get a mood going.

Your passing it up is putting you into the nice guy column. She may be wondering if you even like her at all.

IF you get a second date, get that kiss out of the way ASAP. Don't wait until the end of the date. YOU need to initiate it. Tickle her. Do what you have to do to get some touching going. If she plays along, kiss her!

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

I think it is a matter of opportunity, if anything. Movies are not the place for a first kiss, in my opinion. Somewhere private is preferred or walking her to her door and saying, "good bye, I enjoyed the evening" and then going for the kiss.

Many girls don't kiss on a first date, that is not abnormal. Go for the kiss when you feel it is appropriate. I would try on the second date for sure. You have this girl wrapped around your finger, well, at least her hand!. I think it's kind of romanticaly innocent from going to a touch of the hands to a kiss. Nowadays these hors on on your jock without even kissing!!! What does that tell you?

 

[FreeStyleZ]

What were you thinking in the movie theatres when she was giving you all these good signs?

My hands are cold means - means hold my hand show some goddamn affection while we are in this dark theatre, why are you not making a move!

her rubbing her thumb like that - means wtf are you not getting the hint for! Look at me and i wiill be smiling and openly awaiting a kiss!!

All you had to do to know if she was going to let you kiss her in the theatre was when she moved her thumbs like that make eye contact with her and smile and if she smiles too.. just casually glace at her lips and then go for it. You really blew that one from what it sounds like.

When you didnt do it in the theatre, you probably got put into the wuss zone which is why the kiss me signals stopped when you got in the car.

 

[livin large]

Mercury, I think you're still good. I've ruined more chances by moving too fast than moving too slow - especially with 'good' girls like this one seems to be.

A couple things for you to consider...
In the theater, she went out on a limb by basically asking you to hold her hand. Once she got you to do that, she went out on a limb playing with your hand. Did you do anything to let her know that she wasn't going too far by doing that? To us, we like it anytime our date is doing stuff like that...but she needs to know that. If you didn't return interest, that might explain why she was afraid to give you the signals for the kiss at the end of the date.

I still think you're in a good position - you have a nice girl who's showed interest in you several ways. I think you're fine by not kissing her, but if you want her to keep showing she's interested, make sure she knows you're still interested in her. If she starts to fear you're not interested, she'll be afraid to put herself out there.

I also think your timing sucks since today is Valentine's day. It might not be a bad idea to give her a call today, especially if you want her to know you're interested. If you don't call her, it's just going to be another reason for her to think you're not into her.

If you're not worried about her wondering if you like her, then you're probably good waiting until Monday and just playing it cool. But only you were there and can tell how she perceives your interest.

I don't think you can ruin your chances either way, so don't sweat it too much.

 

[Mercury21]

Thanks Livin Large!!!

Great help...as expected

I don't think I made her believe that I am not interested in her. I do think that I might have sent her mixed signals and left her wondering how I truly feel about her. That is kind of what I was going for anyway

Before reading your post I was crushing my skull trying to decide if:

A. I should call her tomorow(Sunday) and set something up for later that same day. Or....

B. Just go ahead and wait till I see her in class on Monday, then set something up for the next day(Tuesday)

You have put my mind at ease, so I think the best thing to do is wait until Monday.

I kind of freaked out after reading Free Style's answer about her thinking I was a wussy for not making a move. But to tell you the truty I don't think that is possible.

First she was sitting in during the movie, like I had said in a diagonal position with her head barely resting on my shoulder. That made it kind of awkward to lean over and kiss her then.

Her nervous attitude in her car later was probably just that: Nervousness. Not to mention she probably felt that making out with somebody on the first date would make her seem like a ho or something


Its just fun everytime I think about what she is thinking right now....since I haven't called her since last night, and won't for the rest of the weekend. I think she will be busting her head against a wall trying to disect every detail of our date to see if she did something wrong....even more than I have disected it here with you guys

 

[coldcoal]

What it boils down to is that you don't need to overplay the DJ stuff if she initiates the mentionable encounters of the date. It seems to me that you're trading off concrete assurances for speculation just so you can play a mystery game.

Your gut reaction was that you may have been able to kiss close this date, enough that you sought out opinions on it.

Apparently, now I'm finding this confusion was part of the master plan all along?

Big pill to swallow.

 

[Mercury21]

At the time, yes I was playing the Mystery game with her despite her showing signs of interest.

But when it was "go" time-in her car at the end- I was kind of waiting for the right signal/mood before making a move. Like livin large said, with nice girls you are more likely to screw things up by moving to fast than by moving slow.

The end result was that I definently left her with mixed signals...and that is never a bad thing. Unless I missed something here, but we have always been taught here to show a little affection then pull away for a little bit.

Maybe my mistake was that I didn't have to do that, given that she was already so interested-apparently. At worst, I don't think I screwed anything up..which was my biggest concern in the first place.

Next time we get together, either tomorow or Monday-I'm still trying to decide, , I will definently move in...signals or no signals.

Of course before I move in for the kiss I will be lightly hinting that "yes, I do want you" I say lightly so as not to seem too over bearing. That is never sexy.

I'm telling you, after you have become so accostumed to dealing with the party/clubbing ho types these nice girls can really confuse you!

 

[coldcoal]

When it comes to a drastic switch in the types of women out there, trust me, I understand how confusing it can be!

I'm not saying you fouled this up at all! But I do believe there was enough there for you to go on. This girl, from what you've mentioned, sounds nice, but not exactly the innocent, goody-good type. There is a slight difference between the two, and that is initiation. That's why they're considered good girls, because they don't initiate!

The cold hand comment, it's a line. I've heard it used a hundred times. The thumb? It's not original either. She has a clue. So don't make the mistake that she is sweating the encounter, ok?

Call her tomorrow.

 

[Mercury21]

Good tip Coldcoal!

Done, I'm calling her tomorow! I'll set up a lunch encounter, and steer it from there.

This time I will move in for the kiss...without a doubt. I'll post you guys the update of what went down between us tomorow when I get home.

 

[justjosh47]

I hear you....

Man I completly understand what your going threw , im in college and ive pulled off the same type of dates and felt the same thing I think your feeling , the way I see it is when I have made a move or kissed a girl I just went for it becouse I felt it , I know she whould not regect me , but yea ...I think your oka , she obviously likes you on some leval and I your early in the dating stage with her so you have some slack time , so take your time but not to slow .

-Josh
Marshall University DJ in training

 

[ali_g]

Mercury, you're doing fine. You did well playing it cool which you want to do early on rather than rushing in like all the other horn dogs. But don't wait forever to make the move. Look for opportunities on the 2nd date, stay off the phone, let her think about you for a while and arrange one date a week until you two become exclusive.

 

[Mercury21]

Ok, this is how it went down

I called her home number around noon, and her mom answered and said she wasn't home. So I just said to let her know that I had called.

Ok...I just left it at that and went on with my business. I wasn't about to call her cell# because that would be way too many calls within a short period of time.

About an hour later she calls me back. She sounded all up beat and was talkative as usual. As asked her what she was doing and she told me she took some of her little cousins shopping...



That right there ruined my plan...which was to call her to come out for lunch. Still, I played it cool...and she kept talking to me normally. She mentioned that it had been her cousin's birthday so that is why she took them shopping, and later she was going to take them to a movie.

This all even before I mentioned anything. Finally I just told her that I was going out to grab a bite at one of my favorite spots and was calling her to come out to...but since she was out shopping don't worry about it.

She asked me what I had been up to, ..I felt she was trying to keep the conversation going. I didn't give her a straight answer, just said "Oh, little bit of this little bit of that..."

Finally I just told her I was going to go ahead and go eat and I would talk to her later.

And that was the end of that! All I have to say is that I am SOOOO glad I went out last night with my friends to a bar and had a DAMN good time..because if I had stayed home thinking about this moment all last night, only to have it end like this I would be pissed right now.

But as it is, I went out, had fun...and so I'll just wait to talk to her tomorow when I see her in class.

Now, do you guys think I should lob another invite her way tomorow...or would that be too much so soon? Remember, the only problem today was that she was already out doing something, and in no way was a rejection. She more than likely would have come out had she not been with her cousins.

What do you think, guys? Is it cool to go ahead and suggest we do something tomorow or not?

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Why didn't you just say, "let's do something tuesday". Now you are going to have to call again and maybe play phone tag. Always have a secondary option on hand in case the first one falls through, which in your case, it did.

Also I wanted to reiterate what dj 'coldcoal' said, this chick is not all that 'innocent', so don't sweat too much over her rejecting your advances - you have enough to go on already that shows her interest in you is high. The thumb moving up and down your hand is a classic clue that is screaming, "I want some affection now!!!!"

 

[Mercury21]

Yeah, I guess I worded it wrong when I said she was innocent. A good girl, maybe, but not innocent. Especially with that whole thumb moving up and down thing

But I won't be playing phone tag with her, because I will see her in person tomorow at college. We have a class together, so that is what I was wondering:

Is is it cool to invite her to do something tomorow when I see her in person, or would that be too many invites too soon?

What do you think?

 

[FreeStyleZ]

x(x+1) - (yx3) + 4 > 30 dont call!

X = Number of calls thus far
Y = Number of denies from her

ITS NOT A MATHEMATICAL EQUATION MAN, call her if you want, WHEN you want, to do WHAT you want, you're the man in this situation, dont be so wishy washy.

 

[Mercury21]

No, its not a mathematical equation.

And you are right about not being wishy washy...

However, if we don't think these situations through often times we screw them up

Its the old battle of emotions vs logic. Our emotions may be compelling us to do one thing, but if we stop and think LOGICALLY about it we know it is wrong.

Like when we may feel like calling a girl the same day we got her number...but we know-"we" as in us here at sosuave- that doing something like that will totally screw things up with that girl.

So, through our logic we come to the conclusion that it is better to wait 2-3 days before calling to increase her attraction and interest level in us.

That is why it is good to discuss and analyze situations here on this board before we go out there and do something stupid

So to avoid doing something stupid, I was just wanting to know if it would be disaster to invite this girl to do something tomorow when I see her. Taking into consideration our phone call today.

 

[MVPlaya]

Mercury21

• This is an interesting situation, so let me give you the quick background on it
  
  There is this girl in one of my college classes whom I have been chatting with since the first day. We only have class together 2 days out of the week, but on those two days we would always talk after class for an hour or so.
  
  Usually not a good idea, even if it is natural, because it signals you have nothing better to do, but in this case she still has high IL despite that.
  
• Not my usual style to talk to girls for that long, but it all naturally happened. Ok, 2 weeks of that and I really get the feeling that she is interested in me. So one day after another really long talk I ask for her number.
  
  Bad move, you hesitated too long, nonetheless, this chick is still attracted to you. Which may not be entirely because of your DJ-ness as the fact that she is attracted to you (based on looks or simple "women's intuition").
  
• I hand over my pen and notebook to her, and she then writes down BOTH her Cell and Home number! Great, right? Yep...she wants me
  
  Thats High IL right there.
  
• That was this last Monday. So today, Friday I call her up around noon and tell her that I am going to catch a movie tonight..."why don't you come along..?"
  
  I usually give them more time to prepare but line's decent, although its intent obvious.
  
• She definently went for it, and even started blabbering away again...she kept me on the phone for nearly 15 minutes after my "invite" before I finally cut her off.
  
  Try to keep these convo's short, LEAVE EM WANTING MORE!
  Remember, you'll be talking to her in the date and its a lot more interesting when you're face to face.
  
• Let me just insert this note here: The only reason I invited her to come out to the movies and not some "action" date is beacause, #1, it is damn cold over here today..supposed to even snow later. #2, I remember her saying that she doesn't drink(DAMN ) and #3: I remember her also saying that she likes to go to the movies. So...I figured, just for now, it would be an acceptable date.
  
  Buddy, she may be externally more conservative but that doesn't mean she isn't up for some excitement. Women like it when you do something exciting, don't go for the given date just because she gave you HER RULES on how to act.
  
• Ok, so she gets off work at 10:30 and immedietly calls me up wanting to meet up at the theater. So I show up, buy our tickets and wait for her inside.
  
  Definite IL I would've met her outside, btw.
  
• She shows up about 15 mintues later, looking all made over and nice...in other words: it didnt look like she had just got off work. I imagine she hurried home and did her make up, put on some nice clothes and that is why she was late.
  
  Once again, that high IL.
  
• Thats Great! So I keep cool, make some funny comments as we walk to the theater, and basically just let her talk the whole time.
  
  C&F is pretty key. Let em talk, but when you're going into the movie, don't let em talk the whole time. I guess guys are advised a 40/60 30/70 ratio for them talking versus the girls talking and although this is how to start out, if you can be funny during a convo you can talk a little more. Also, when you have short convos (like when you know the movie will start in 5 minutes) don't follow the rules to a T.
  
• Ok, this is where I need you guys to pay attention!
  
  During the movie we sat next to eachother with nothing big really happening between us. Only a little low chit chat.
  
  Although talk should be at a minimum during a film, flirting should not, kino, make little jabs, even throwing popcorn, no matter how cheesy, can be fun. Although this depends on the girl, and you're style of course. You're whole behavior should flow together, not have some strange mix that seems unnatural.
  
• THEN, half way through she begins to sit in this diagonal position, with her head practically on my shoulder, but not quite. And her left hand was all but reaching out towards mine.
  
  She's asking for you to take it. I wouldn't, because holding hands initiates this very stereotypical courtship pattern.
  
• Nope, I didn't take it..and just played it cool for a little bit. Then, out of no where she says, "See, this is how cold my hands are.." she then takes my hand with hers and holds it momentarily.
  
  Thats an invitation right there.
  
• So then I thought, "what the hell" and held her hand for the duration of the movie.....during which time she would rub her thumb up and down my hand and up my sleeve a little. Being very affectionate.
  
  She wanted you to cuddle her. You shoulda put your arm around her and applied some heavy kino. Don't be fooled by HER RULES.
  
• After the movie is finished we walk out together into the cold only to find that we parked on opposite ends of the parking lot. I ask her to give me a ride to my car, which of course she does. When we get to my car, we stayed in hers talking for a while longer.
  
  Nothing wrong with a make-out session in the car.
  
• Now, I wasn't getting in body language from her that said, "kiss me" or anything like that. She was sitting in a kind of distant position, although she kept talking and talking to me in the most natural way. I thought about just leaning over and doing it, but at the same time I don't want to come off as needy or pushy.
  
  Don't be so hesitant, you got real High IL from her, buddy. Remember, YOU ARE THE PRIZE. That is so applicable here since she was DJing you, she probably WANTED you to kiss her (women can want to kiss guys, no matter their "RULES").
  
• Finally I just said goodbye, walked out and over to my car and got in. She waited in her car next to mine until I turned it on, and kept trying to talk to me.
  
  Not so good. You might have ended on an awkward note there.
  
  Look, here's what you should've done, while you were in the car kino her. Touch her hand, make a comment about her hair while touching it, at this point, she'll know to reciprocate and will break down her shield and move closer, let that escalate into a kiss. You see, she wanted you to kiss her but was in a distant position (SHIELD) because she wasn't sure if you wanted to kiss HER, thats why she was away, to not look like a fool.
  
• I just rolled down my window, smiled and said, "bye, see ya later" and we both drove off in separate directions.
  
  She left that date most unsatisfied.
  
• Ok, now I want you guys to let me have it. Do you think it was a good plan to not want to push things to soon by not kissing her? Or do you think that I should have just gone for it anyway? Who cares about what happens?
  
  You should've definitely gone for it.
  
• I must point out that she is not your typical "slut looking for a ONS" that we so commonly pick up in clubs. No, she is more of the "pretty, although innocent stay at home" kind of nice girl. Remember, she doesn't even drink!
  
  What the hell does that have to do with it. All women want to be loved, want to kiss, want to have sex. Just because they have varying shades of ASD doesn't mean they can't be attracted to you. And when girls say they don't drink that doesn't mean they don't drink socially. Furthermore, by following HER RULES you are supplicating yourself in your wants.
  
• Now my plan is not to call her for the rest of the weekend, and only talk to her again on Monday when we will see eachother in class. There I will invite her to go get coffee or something after class. This all of course assuming she doesn't call me between now and then.
  
  No, call her before you see her in person I say, talk to her, have some chat, check out her vibe. She is probably not sure how to act because you didn't give HER high IL. Look, no matter how pristine women make themselves out to be, they still want men. In this case, you had every opportunity to kiss her and made her feel awkward by not doing that. Ignore their rules. Keep em into consideration for a little bit in trying to see what she (thinks she) is like, but remember, YOUR rules are more important.

MV