Short, scruffy, skinny, and ugly - no problem....

[Slickster]

Hey guys,

Just thought I would share a story from today that should give some of you a little confidence boost.

I'm walking down the street heading to a bookstore and trying to make it there before it closes. It's just around the next corner and as I approach I see two very hot young girls totally checking out a young guy who has just walked past them. I'm approaching these girls without them seeing me yet. They have literally stopped in their tracks and turned to watch this guy go by. The fact that they are looking so intensely makes me check the guy out as well. One says, "Oh my god!". The other says, "That guy is SO hot!"

Just after they say this they are startled to see me right there. They both double take and smile when they see me. Right away, I laugh and say "You guys are totally busted!" They both laugh and seem a little embarrassed.

The three of us stand there watching this guy walk away for a second and based on what I see I have to ask, "So you girls really like the dirty vagabond look huh?" Their response was, "Whatever he was super hot!" I ask again, "Really???" They say an emphatic "YES!!" and keep on walking.

I was like "Okaaaay....?"

So anyway I check out the two girls a little more as they walk away and I enter the bookstore. They are REALLY hot. Very well dressed and probably 22-25 years old.

So I buy my book and walk out. Now this may sound weird but I'm really curious to get a better look at this guy and see what the deal is here. I would normally never do this (or even care), but from what I saw of this guy I HAD to take another look.

So I think about what stores are down the street in the direction he was headed and I decide that I have a pretty good idea where he might stop. I head that way and sure enough he's exactly where I thought he'd be - the Thrift Store buying second hand clothes!

I go in and upon closer inspection here is what I see.....

He was probably early 20's, 5' 6" maybe 5'7". Skinny as fawk. (Definitely shorter and skinnier than both those girls.) One of those guys whose a$$cheeks don't even fill his jeans and it just looks like an empty sack back there. He was wearing dirty, gray, ripped jeans and the butt had so much dirt there it looked like he literally sh!t his pants. His checkered gray flannel shirt had stains all down the front and he was wearing a filthy faded, ripped up hobo-style backpack. His light brown hair was shaggy, unwashed, and oily. Some scruffy and very patchy facial hair covered a pitiful weak jawline. His face looked gaunt, pale, bony, emaciated and oily. The only thing I think he had going for him were his eyes. The greenish color seemed to contrast the gray look of everything else. I actually thought the guy looked like a little hobbit. A bum version of Frodo Baggins from Lord of the Rings.

So I left sort of shaking my head and laughing at myself for stalking this creepy little dude. As I said earlier this isn't something I would normally concern myself with. I don't take young girl's opinions too seriously. However I was quite surprised to see a such big a reaction from REALLY attractive girls over a guy who REALLY looked like sh!t.

Anyhow I thought I would share this story for any of you guys who don't consider yourselves attractive enough to get women. Always walk around with an air of confidence. You never know who is checking you out and liking what they see.

 

[sicsec]

I hate to say it miss those days. When I was in my early 20's, no money, clothes, razor, hairbrush, basically looking like **** but my attitude was careless and extroverted and did more damage those days than I do now!!! I would talk to every and any decent looking girl and was surprised by where I got with them. Now its a different game especailly with the young girls. they seem to gravitate to the Nirvana rejects for some reason.

 

[Iceberg]

I'm out of work right now and have been spending a lot of time my local Starbucks (applying for jobs via their free Wi-Fi). This Starbucks is very busy, and one thing that. I'm seeing is these young attractive women with skinny guys--the kind of guys who look sort of emaciated, like they never work out. The kind of guys who die their hair red and wear it shaggy. Wear earrings and skinny jeans.

I personally think that younger women prefer these types because it's easier for them to control a skinny guy, who is un-intimidating. Safe. Harmless.

I don't know if that's the issue. I think that women are trend-followers, and right now the skinny hipster look is the trend. In the 90's, it might have been the grunge fad. And in the 80's, maybe it was some femme, glam-rock sh!t.

I guess it all depends on the type of girl you're lookin for. If you want the preppy, prom queen type, then you probably gotta become the preppy type. If you want to attract the artsy hipster chick (or the wannabe artsy chick), then you're gonna rock the skinny hipster look.

Or hey, you could be a preppy dude who embraces a little bit of the hipster style, and maybe you can pull from both pools of women. It's like a damn ecosystem.

 

[zekko]

Anyhow I thought I would share this story for any of you guys who don't consider yourselves attractive enough to get women. Always walk around with an air of confidence. You never know who is checking you out and liking what they see.

Was this guy walking around with an air of confidence? Just wondering, since they make so much of confidence and the alpha aura around here. Were the girls responding to the way he carried himself or did they just genuinely like the way he looked?

It's hard to picture a skinny 5'6" guy as an alpha. The point is sometimes attraction is a very random thing. If this dude hooked up with one of those attractive girls there would probably be some guy on here posting that some AFC took his girl, and wondering WTF was going on.

 

[MikeBrown30]

It's hard to picture a skinny 5'6" guy as an alpha.

Seriously? Someones height and build is what defines them as alpha or not? I expected a lot more from you zekko.

 

[Deep Dish]

http://re1000.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/evolution_of_the_hipster.jpg

 

[Jitterbug]

No accounting for taste.

 

[Slickster]

Was this guy walking around with an air of confidence? Just wondering, since they make so much of confidence and the alpha aura around here. Were the girls responding to the way he carried himself or did they just genuinely like the way he looked?

I guess so? He just seemed pretty oblivious to me. I'm sure both girls smiled at him and may have even said hello. He just kept walking. I was tempted to yell at him and say "Hey dude get back here and take advantage of this once in a lifetime opportunity."

I know the difference between "trying" to look grungy and "actually" being grungy. This guy was just plain dirty. LOL! Maybe the reason he kept walking is because he knows how bad he looked and probably smelled. I really don't think the guy was trying to achieve any sort of hip look or anything like that. He may very well have been homeless or a vagabond.

 

[floydb25]

Guys are the worst when it comes to judging other guys. Not only because they aren't attracted to them, but they automatically become competitive and jealous when seeing girls checking them out. Every time I'm out with some friends - they're always ragging on other guys who actually have women - saying they're douche bags, ugly as hell, etc. Even though they have girls. Haters are everywhere - even in our own crowds.

I've had this happen all my life. Guys said I was so ugly and blah blah - yet I always had women and they didn't. They even knew it, 'cause they saw it. If you have women - you're ugly. If you don't - you're ugly. Men are very egotistical and want to one-up another. Especially the ones that don't have what you do. They love to see you fail, and will be the first to call you ugly when you get rejected. It's almost always the ugly ones who never have women that do this. They're the biggest haters of all.

It's best to leave it up to the females. They're the ones dating them - not you. They probably don't care if YOU think they're ugly, anyway. They're not trying to impress you.

 

[zekko]

Seriously? Someones height and build is what defines them as alpha or not? I expected a lot more from you zekko.

Well, I do think that as far as what you can tell from a guy walking down the street, a skinny 5'6" guy is not going to come across as alpha, no matter how good his posture is.

I think alpha, in the purest sense, refers to the big muscular caveman who ate first and took whatever woman he wanted, because he could. That's also the way it is with animals in nature. That's the alpha that women are hard wired to respond to, IMO.

Then I think alpha has a secondary meaning, where it could be a guy who is clever enough with a force of personality strong enough to get people to follow him. He might also be athletic and the best hunter, or have the sound judgement needed to rule the tribe. The short, skinny fellow could be this guy, but you're not going to be able to see that from him walking down the street.

Then there is modern times, where a guy can be the top male in several different ways: The teacher in the classroom, the CEO of a company, the best basketball player, the host of a TV show, anything where a man has authority or commands the respect of others. But an alpha has to be the top guy in something or some way, that's what the word means - it literally means "first". Women are attracted to the top dog.

I know pickup gurus sometimes define alpha loosely as some AFC who has learned to have good self esteem and be confident. But that really doesn't make him alpha - alpha is a position, the top position. It may be mimicking some alpha behaviors, which can still trigger attraction. Some may think of alphas and betas as winners and losers, but there are a lot of high level betas. Most of what the guys here refer to as betas are actually gammas. To be an alpha, you have to be the top guy in some way, either the most physically dominant, or the most powerful, or the wealthiest, or the social leader, etc.

Guys are the worst when it comes to judging other guys. Not only because they aren't attracted to them, but they automatically become competitive and jealous when seeing girls checking them out.

I agree with this. With some guys you can tell that they will appeal to women, but other guys are complete surprises. Men will understimate some guys, because we aren't women and we don't see the appeal.

I don't think women are always the best at picking out what females are attractive either. You ever hear a girl talking about how pretty a girl is, and you look at her and she's frigging hideous? Or maybe your girlfriend will get jealous of a certain girl, but you don't find her attractive at all, it's the girl standing next to her that you'd really like to bang?

 

[wait_out]

Just for fun...

There is no good reason to believe that humans evolved in hierarchical tribes between tens of thousands to two million years ago. To the contrary, there is a mountain of evidence showing that humans evolved in largely egalitarian bands that punished attempts of dominance with social sanctioning, banishment, and death (Boehm 1999). Yes, that’s basically saying that alpha males got offed by their social group — not exactly a benefit to reproduction. It appears that human ancestors likely lived in dominance hierarchies sometime in our distant past, but probably prior to the evolution of the hominin (human) line (Boehm 1999; Debreuil 2010). These works indicate that whatever “alpha” dominance tendencies evolved in our remote ancestors has most likely been evolving in the opposite direction for a couple million years. Among related primate ancestors, we see varying levels of dominance hierarchies, but the most recent common ancestor likely dates to 6 million years ago — a very far cry from merely “tens of thousands of years ago.” It must also be noted that as an evolutionary process, these behavioral traits exist on a continuum, and can’t be precisely mapped on a timeline. However, the “tribal” evolution narrative appears to be simply wrong.

 

[Mike32ct]

I agree with Floyd that men are not good at judging other mens' looks.

I mean we can tell a stereotypically hot guy as in tall, muscular, slick or messy hair or shaved head, handsome face, etc. But we don't do so well judging more uncoventionally attractive guys.

Some guys have a certain niche lookswise that is ugly as F to us but makes certain women wet. It's not always motivated by jealously, although that is common. Sometimes, as Slickster experienced, we really can't wrap our heads around why they go for a certain guy.

Then there are guys that get complimented by other guys, but rarely women.

But ultimately, what you don't want to do is say "I see hot girls with ugly (to us) guys. Therefore looks don't matter."

As weird as their taste might be, they still found this vagabond (hobo or bum in US slang) hot.

I also agree that women aren't the best at judging other women. Sure they can tell a conventionally hot woman. But they often overestimate their fat friend that they claim is "sooo pretty" lol.

 

[iqqi]

Slick, you should've just went all out and took the guys picture.

I would have told you what is up.

 

[zekko]

Wait out, I guess you're saying that the betas all ganged up on the alpha and killed him. Can't say I blame them, I'd probably do the same if I had to live under the dominion of some musclebound pr!ck. Strength in numbers with the betas, right?

Also, in ancient times women often went to the alphas because they had no choice. They were either overpowered, or they had to go be a wife to the king/ruler under penalty of death. Or else they had to go to the wealthy man or starve with the peasant who could barely feed himself.

Nevertheless, women do seem attracted to the big muscular guys because they offer protection. And they are attracted to the top guys because they want a high value husband.

 

[wait_out]

I'm sure it's hard to know for sure as humans have been around a lot longer than writing and agriculture.

Zekko that is not in ancient times either, that happens frequently anywhere corrupt people have a state security apparatus to back them up. However, that's not the environment humans evolved in as it's relatively recent. We're taking about attraction, not coercion. Women committed suicide after being picked up by Uday Hussein, they did not consider themselves lucky.

If you aren't an anthropologist, you're still entitled to your opinions but you have to realize your methodology is not exactly watertight.

 

[Aaron B]

men and women view the "masculine ideal" very differently and respond to it much differently

passing judgment on what women respond to isn't helpful. learn what you can from it and move on

also you have to consider the dynamic between the two women. perhaps one of them commented recently that she found a guy of that style hot, and the other girl saw this dude who is similar and wanted to "get in good" with her friend or connect somehow so she was the one who said how hot he was, (or any other scenario you can imagine)

it's not A to B. C, D, E, F, G etc. also factor in

ScottMustaine: your evidence is anecdotal and I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Also the second guy you posted has dominant facial features and it has been scientifically proven that women prefer those men for casual sex (I don't have a link, google should be able to find it)

Look at a guy like Brad Pitt. Dominant facial features but also is somewhat pretty like a woman.

Of course, anytime I use Brad Pitt as an example, the woman I'm talking to always claims to not like Brad Pitt (lol). Women are predictable in their contrariness in that way it seems.

 

[Aaron B]

The first one is more a lot more wanted than the second one.

because what women say and what they do are the same thing!

you have no idea if he is desired IRL or not - and even if he is, it's STILL anecdotal

if the women had to sleep with him first before they could heap praise on him, i think it might be a different story

gotta read the subtext bro. everyone has an agenda, those women included.

they have no skin in the game. talk is cheap. until they spread their legs for him, it's all for nothing

 

[zekko]

However, that's not the environment humans evolved in as it's relatively recent.

I'm a little fuzzy on what point you're trying to make. Is it that women are not attracted to alphas? Or that women are not as attracted to alphas as the community thinks? Or that they are attracted to alphas, but not for evolutionary reasons?

It's hard to think of a time when women were not dependent, at least in part, on men to provide for and/or protect them. Maybe it's just being practical. The more capable/powerful/resourceful/wealthy the male a woman can attract, the more she will benefit.

This guy is taken by 3 year older girlfriend. The irony of life.

Oh, well there's your answer. It's social proof/preselection.

Seriously, I think it's pretty clear that the formula for what makes a man attractive is a whole lot more complicated than what makes a female attractive. There are all kinds of factors at play, and can sometimes be hard to predict. Supposedly just having different genes can be an attraction factor.

In the original poster's story, those girls probably aren't far past their Justin Beiber phase. Maybe they just thought he looked boyish.

 

[Slickster]

Slick, you should've just went all out and took the guys picture.

I would have told you what is up.

I don't know about that Iq, I've seen some of the creeps that you like!

(....just bugging, you know I love ya! )


I am laughing at the image in my head of me pulling out a camera and getting a pic of that guy. "Hey excuse me there ugly rodent guy, you mind if I get a photo of you so I can ask my girlfriends if you are hot or not?"

I did consider talking to the guy and telling him about the two girls. I had a feeling they were heading to this trendy restaurant nearby and sure enough on the way back I saw them again in the window. It would've been funny if I delivered ol' stinky to them. "Here ya go girls! You might have to buy him lunch, but isn't he so HOT?"

 

[Packers2010]

I hate to say it miss those days. When I was in my early 20's, no money, clothes, razor, hairbrush, basically looking like **** but my attitude was careless and extroverted and did more damage those days than I do now!!! I would talk to every and any decent looking girl and was surprised by where I got with them. Now its a different game especailly with the young girls. they seem to gravitate to the Nirvana rejects for some reason.

may god have mercy on out souls.

what i have learned from my small existence is: care free guys like that, may get the lays, but he won't keep a girl like that around. I always try and dress well when i am out. even if i do just wear a sonic shirt and jeans.