Shell's Trump event and the overpay issue

Die Hard

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I know Trump gets demonized daily. You know it, I know it, no need to preach to the choir. And even if you don't agree with that, that's fine too. But all of that is not what this thread is about and I want to ask all of you EXPLICITLY not to make it about that!

I'm only interested in one thing here, which is to make sense of the overtime pay issue. I purely want to understand the logic behind it. So just LOGIC AND FACTS here, leave the emotional shyt at the door please.

First read this: https://qz.com/1689899/workers-at-shells-trump-event-had-to-attend-or-lose-pay/

I also found the memo Shell handed out: 3005


I don't get the specifics behind the overpay issue. I wonder if any of you can help me out with the following points:

  • The employees have a 56 hour workweek, so that's 40 hours normal pay and 16 hours overtime.
  • The memo says those that won't attend the Trump event will not receive overtime pay on Friday
So here's what I don't understand:

Surely the Trump event didn't take up 16 hours. Let's assume it took up 10 hours. So if any employee decided not to attend, that means he would work 56 - 10 = 46 hours that week. So that would make for 40 hours standard pay and 6 hours overtime pay, right? But the memo seems to suggest there will be no overtime pay for this emplyee at all. If that's true, it would be unfair to the employee, coz he still deserves 6 hours of overtime pay even if he didn't attend the Trump event, right?

So unless I'm missing something, it does seem the employees who didn't attend the Trump event got treated unfairly REGARDING THE OVERTIME PAY ISSUE (again, that's the only thing I'm discussing here, not all the other stuff!).

The only thing I'm not totally sure about is how to interpret that line: "Those who are not in attendance will NOT receive overtime pay on Friday"
Specifically, the Friday reference. Does it mean the employees get their salaries paid out weekly, specifically on Friday? Or does it mean that they normally only receive overtime pay for the hours they work on Friday? It would seem more logical to say they get no overtime pay "that week" but it specifically says "On Friday" and I don't know how to interpret this...

Then there's another possibility:
  • Employees work 56 hours a week and they get overtime pay (like 1.5x the hourly rate) for all of those 56 hours. But if they work less than 56 hours they get the regular rate (1.0x the hourly rate) for all of their worked hours (even if it's more than 40)
I just don't get it. Can someone explain it to me? It does seem they got fvcked, coz they should get overtime pay for every hour they make above the standard 40 hours. If they didn't get any overtime pay at all, that seems unfair. The only other explanation I can think of, is that the Trump event took exactly 16 hours. That's the only way I can make sense of there being no overtime pay AT ALL for employees that didn't attent the event. But again, there's that "On Friday" reference which could be the missing link to make sense of all this...

What do you guys make of it?
 
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Die Hard

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After reading the article again, the devil does seem to be in that Friday detail....

"Those who attended the Trump event on Tuesday and worked all week met the overtime threshold, earning time-and-a-half on Friday"

It seems the employees need to reach a certain threshold of worked hours BEFORE Friday, and then every hour they make on Friday gets paid 1.5x

But that still doesn't make 100% sense to me. Coz he also said "The employees at the site have a 56-hour workweek, with 16 hours of overtime built in"

That would suggest the "threshold" is at 40 hours, right? So that means they work 40 hours on Monday till Thursday, then make 16 hours on Friday? Seems kinda weird to work 16 hours on one day but it could be possible...

The thing is, he doesn't explain how it works exactly (or maybe he did and the article just doesn't mention his full explanation), and until he does, I am not sure whether these employees got fvcked or not....
 

TyTe`EyEz

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The way I originally understood it, the workers didn't have to attend the event, but if they didn't, then they would need to use PTO hours to still get paid for that day.

PTO hours don't count as hours worked, so they wouldn't contribute to overtime pay later in the week.
 

TyTe`EyEz

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So they may still get some overtime, but not whatever hours they used of PTO for that day.
 

samspade

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The way I originally understood it, the workers didn't have to attend the event, but if they didn't, then they would need to use PTO hours to still get paid for that day.

PTO hours don't count as hours worked, so they wouldn't contribute to overtime pay later in the week.
That sounds about right. And it sounds fair to me, actually.
 

Danger

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After reading the article again, the devil does seem to be in that Friday detail....

"Those who attended the Trump event on Tuesday and worked all week met the overtime threshold, earning time-and-a-half on Friday"

It seems the employees need to reach a certain threshold of worked hours BEFORE Friday, and then every hour they make on Friday gets paid 1.5x

But that still doesn't make 100% sense to me. Coz he also said "The employees at the site have a 56-hour workweek, with 16 hours of overtime built in"

That would suggest the "threshold" is at 40 hours, right? So that means they work 40 hours on Monday till Thursday, then make 16 hours on Friday? Seems kinda weird to work 16 hours on one day but it could be possible...

The thing is, he doesn't explain how it works exactly (or maybe he did and the article just doesn't mention his full explanation), and until he does, I am not sure whether these employees got fvcked or not....
It sounds like Trump Tuesday was a plant shutdown, so the only way to get free hours worked was to attend the Trump rally.

They would not get overtime on Friday because they did not accrue the free hours on Tuesday by attending.
 

Bible_Belt

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Does your employer have the right to force you to support a particular political candidate, under threat of financial punishment? That is the larger issue here. And before you answer, what if it were a Hillary 2020 rally? Would you wave a sign and put on a happy face for that if your boss told you to? I couldn't do it.
 

samspade

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Does your employer have the right to force you to support a particular political candidate, under threat of financial punishment? That is the larger issue here. And before you answer, what if it were a Hillary 2020 rally? Would you wave a sign and put on a happy face for that if your boss told you to? I couldn't do it.
I thought about that, but they're not required to support anyone, just show up. They don't even have to smile. So if that's the job for the day, they can show up or take personal time off. Sounds to me like easy money and a break from routine.
 

Danger

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Does your employer have the right to force you to support a particular political candidate, under threat of financial punishment? That is the larger issue here. And before you answer, what if it were a Hillary 2020 rally? Would you wave a sign and put on a happy face for that if your boss told you to? I couldn't do it.
There is no financial punishment here though. Punishment would be like garnishing wages. These attendees are getting free hours, more like a "bonus".
 

TyTe`EyEz

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There is no financial punishment here though. Punishment would be like garnishing wages. These attendees are getting free hours, more like a "bonus".
You wouldn't be saying that if it was Hillary, and you had to sit through an hour or so of her lol
 

Die Hard

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Bible_Belt, I explicitly asked if we could keep the focus on the overpay issue, not all the other stuff. And here you go, starting to talk about the "larger issue here". Thanks for derailing my thread in spite of me explicitly asking not to do that. Jezus, sometimes I think people in here are fvcking children who don't understand even the simplest things...
 
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Die Hard

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The way I originally understood it, the workers didn't have to attend the event, but if they didn't, then they would need to use PTO hours to still get paid for that day.

PTO hours don't count as hours worked, so they wouldn't contribute to overtime pay later in the week.
Okay, so the PTO hours relating to the day of the Trump event won't contribute to overtime pay later in the week, fine. But like I said, the Trump event surely didn't last 16 hours. At the most, it would've lasted 10 hours or thereabouts, don't you think? So if they have a 56 hour workweek, than the employees who didn't attend the Trump event still worked 56 -10 = 46 hours that week. Which means they worked 6 hours more than the regular 40, so that means they should get at least 6 hours of overtime pay. But the article says "Those who didn’t see the president were paid their regular rate on Friday", suggesting they didn't get any overtime paid hours at all.

Doesn't make sense...
 

Die Hard

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It sounds like Trump Tuesday was a plant shutdown, so the only way to get free hours worked was to attend the Trump rally.

They would not get overtime on Friday because they did not accrue the free hours on Tuesday by attending.
Again, they have 56 hour work weeks, of which 16 hours are considered overtime. This was explicitly stated. Which means 40 hours regular pay and 16 hours overtime pay. So if the event on Tuesday lasted 16 hours, then everyone who didn't attend the event made 56 - 16 = 40 hours that week. And in that case, they get regular pay for those 40 hours worked and no ovetime pay at all.
But if the event on Tuesday lasted shorter than 16 hours, let's say it lasted around 10 hours, then everyone who didn't attend the event made 56 - 10 = 46 hours that week. And in that case, they should get regular pay for 40 of those 46 hours, but overtime pay for 6 of those 46 hours.

I can't imagine the Trump event lasted 16 hours. And if that's correct, then the people who didn't attent still worked more than 40 hours that week. And since all hours beyond 40 are considered overtime, they should get some overtime pay. However, the article and the quotes suggest they didn't get any overtime pay at all.....

It just doesn't add up!
 

Bible_Belt

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Romney did the same thing, and there was a spat about it. He ended up getting away with it:

The Citizens United decision cements corporate power above individual rights. That is the masterpiece work of the Roberts court, and a huge victory for the right. The second phase of their plan is to strip the legislature of power, and strip the Supreme Court of independence, by appointing empty suits like Kavanaugh, who will always do the bidding of the right wing. And that's how the Constitution will die, when we go back to having an all powerful great leader.
 

Danger

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You wouldn't be saying that if it was Hillary, and you had to sit through an hour or so of her lol
I would go for the money, and then heckle and make snide remarks.
 

Danger

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Romney did the same thing, and there was a spat about it. He ended up getting away with it:

The Citizens United decision cements corporate power above individual rights. That is the masterpiece work of the Roberts court, and a huge victory for the right. The second phase of their plan is to strip the legislature of power, and strip the Supreme Court of independence, by appointing empty suits like Kavanaugh, who will always do the bidding of the right wing. And that's how the Constitution will die, when we go back to having an all powerful great leader.

A couple of points to make....

1. Nobody is required to attend a political event here.
2. Corporations donate MASSIVE amounts to Democrats, so Citizens United has helped Democrats just as much as Republicans.
3. Whatever happened to "Private Companies can do what they want"? Isn't that the mantra for Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc,...? Why is it suddenly a problem here?
 

Die Hard

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Romney did the same thing, and there was a spat about it. He ended up getting away with it:

The Citizens United decision cements corporate power above individual rights. That is the masterpiece work of the Roberts court, and a huge victory for the right. The second phase of their plan is to strip the legislature of power, and strip the Supreme Court of independence, by appointing empty suits like Kavanaugh, who will always do the bidding of the right wing. And that's how the Constitution will die, when we go back to having an all powerful great leader.
I just reported you. You went off-topic again, derailing my thread, in spite of me specifically asking you to stop doing that.

Danger, please respect my request to stay on topic and not to derail the thread. If you want to have discussions like the one you're now getting into with Bible_Belt, please do so in a separate thread instead of doing it here.
 

TyTe`EyEz

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Okay, so the PTO hours relating to the day of the Trump event won't contribute to overtime pay later in the week, fine. But like I said, the Trump event surely didn't last 16 hours. At the most, it would've lasted 10 hours or thereabouts, don't you think? So if they have a 56 hour workweek, than the employees who didn't attend the Trump event still worked 56 -10 = 46 hours that week. Which means they worked 6 hours more than the regular 40, so that means they should get at least 6 hours of overtime pay. But the article says "Those who didn’t see the president were paid their regular rate on Friday", suggesting they didn't get any overtime paid hours at all.

Doesn't make sense...
I understand what you mean. My guess would be that the writer of the article was going off of what the flyer said, and the flyer didn't contain all of the info.
 

Die Hard

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I just reported you. You went off-topic again, derailing my thread, in spite of me specifically asking you to stop doing that.

Danger, please respect my request to stay on topic and not to derail the thread. If you want to have discussions like the one you're now getting into with Bible_Belt, please do so in a separate thread instead of doing it here.
 

Die Hard

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I understand what you mean. My guess would be that the writer of the article was going off of what the flyer said, and the flyer didn't contain all of the info.
Yeah, perhaps. But all we can do is speculate now....

They talk about meeting a threshold and reaching that threshold ensures that you get overpay for the hours on Friday. So maybe it is required to have worked 40 hours at the end of Thursday and only in that case, the hours on Friday will receive overpay? Would be kinda weird, if you ask me. That would mean if someone worked 39 hours combined from Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, then works 10 hours on Friday, making a total 49 hours that week, but all those 49 hours get regular pay, even though he worked 9 hours above the standard 40-hour workweek.... Just because he didn't reach the 40 hour threshold by the end of Thursday?

Shell should really explain this to the public, because now we don't actually know what happened. People will speculate to fill in the blanks and all the leftist crybabies will surely speculate NEGATIVELY. Shell should protect themselves against that, by disclosing the full truth, explaining the overpay system.
 
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