She lost interest after I talked about my boundaries

[Divorced w 3]

You're correct. At this point, none of the wives in my social circle are going to provide social circle introductions. That subject hasn't even come up in a long time. I've had even less contact with many of the wives of my friends/acquaintances in recent years, especially the ones mentioned in the "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere" thread who are wives with younger children.

Prior to moving to my current city and starting my current social circle, I had extensive mating environment experience. On the day I arrived in my current city, I was in my late 20s and had 10+ years of mating experience. I had enough time by then to put up a solid notch count. In the past 10+ years, I have added to that notch count, getting me to the 90th + percentile of all men in terms of lifetime notch count.

The lack of getting social circle introductions hasn't stopped me from getting laid. I think it has made my overall process more difficult.

I prefer longer term arrangements. It is easier to get a longer term girlfriend from social circles than it is from approaching strangers, sending DMs, and swipe apps.



That's correct. I'm mostly on good terms with the wives of my male friends/acquaintances. I'm not the friend on any of these women and that was true years ago when they were in the girlfriend phase before they became wives in a number of the cases.



I have a difficult time envisioning getting an offer to go on a date with a single mom. I don't think the wives of my friends/acquaintances know many single moms right now. Most of them appear to be in a married woman/married mom bubble.

I have zero interest in dating a single mom. It doesn't make sense for a childless man to date a single mom. It's a poor fit.

I could envision getting an offer to date someone 30+ with serial dating issues. It could happen from the far fringes of my social circle. I can't think of anyone who would make that offer to me right now.



Why would I want to get married as a 40 something guy, especially to a similarly aged woman?

I am more interested in a serially monogamous girlfriend than a wife at this point.

There is no benefit to me marrying at this point in life as an early 40s never married and childless man.



We can have a discussion about my Early Frame Announcement. What you've described isn't my Early Frame Announcement, even if I am home by 10 PM on many nights.

I think my EFA has been more of the good looking and fun guy.

When women meet a man 40+ who hasn't been married, hasn't had kids, and lives in an urban apartment, they don't get the perception of a boring man who does housework and doesn't go out late at night.



Why do you think this? I think this point is an interesting point that can discussed.

The broader statistics have shown that fewer people are meeting romantic partners from their social circles. Meeting romantic partners from social circles has been declining since the 1990s.

With Millennials and Gen Z having worse social skills than prior generations, this makes sense.

Nevertheless, I know multiple long term couples formed via social circle.



I agree with this. I think there is some hesitation due to the fear of things not working out. This fear is mainly related to things not working out in the short term, like 1-2 dates or maybe a couple of months.

If a social circle formed couple lasts 1-4 years, I think there's less in the way of bad feelings.



I disagree with this. I think women can see if a guy is appealing in general, even if he wouldn't appeal to her specific situation.

I am not saying you should change your preferences, I inferred that you did want monogamy though. If your similarly aged monogamy does happen, hopefully that person is similarly life plan inclined, which I would assume would be a decent chances outcome.

I’m sure we would both agree that a younger woman would probably want a conversation around children at some point. Not all do, obviously. I can point to one in my office for instance, there are exceptions to everything.

 

[BeExcellent]

Most guys screen for ho's then wonder why they find them so often. Comical really.

Agree 1000%.

Then they have the audacity (stupidity?) to complain that's all they find.

@SW15 my comment was not directed at you really....but was a more generalized POV to help guys understand women better. Having said that....you would totally be a "dead end guy" in your example.... and the awful thing is she'd lose 3 years of her limited child bearing years being just a GF, when her goal is to be a wife/mother.

Whether YOU think he's "Beta Bucks" or not, he fits her idea of a man who wants a family, and there is nothing wrong with this.

My own husband says to me all the time that he wishes we had met 30 years ago. His logic is that would have meant decades together already. I always remind him that I would never have given him the time of day at age 26. Firstly because he would have been an 18 yr old college freshman (while I'm already degreed and working in STEM).... and Second (and far more importantly), I was on the wife/mother track, and I ONLY considered men who wanted marriage/kids.

So I would never have wasted time in a non marriage heading LTR with a guy who didn't want kids.

Your life goals need to align (and granted...some people do not have defined life goals.)

 

[SW15]

@SW15 my comment was not directed at you really....but was a more generalized POV to help guys understand women better. Having said that....you would totally be a "dead end guy" in your example.... and the awful thing is she'd lose 3 years of her limited child bearing years being just a GF, when her goal is to be a wife/mother.

I'm glad that the comment was directed at me. It's good you clarified that. It's a good generalized POV.

I have no idea how much the woman from that example wanted to be a wife/mother. When I was trying to use the social circle to get with her, that wasn't something I was considering. She was in the Rollo Tomassi "Epiphany Phase" when this interaction was happening. Before I was really pushing for the social circle to put us together, we were once in the same room at a private residence party. I was instantly attracted to her but she somewhat brushed me off and wasn't giving me any IOIs.

In an extended relationship with me, she would have lost 3 years with me. It's likely that we wouldn't have made it beyond 1-2 dates even if the social circle was able to convince her to go out with me or if things had gone better at that private residence party.

Over the years, most women I've had sex with weren't prioritizing being a mother. Most were on birth control while we were having sex and there were also one night stands in there. I've never intentionally wasted women's limited child bearing years when the woman prioritized being a wife/mother.

Whether YOU think he's "Beta Bucks" or not, he fits her idea of a man who wants a family, and there is nothing wrong with this.

He looks like a complete beta male. In the modern mating environment, that's not a good recipe. I could envision her getting bored with him, having an affair, and filing for divorce at some point. These are realistic scenarios. Ask James Sexton or other divorce lawyers about that.

When I think about many of the marriages I know about, it seems like more of them should be over by now. There have been fewer divorce filings than I would have expected. Many of the guys are blue pilled and many of them are dissatisfied with the marriages. I've never heard the perspectives of the females in these marriages, but they likely aren't happy. Most of the marriages seem boring and/or stressful.

There are a lot of negative statistics around the state of marriage in the USA. That's also true in other developed countries too.

 

[Mike32ct]

Why do you think this? I think this point is an interesting point that can discussed.

Just anecdotally. Over the years, I’ve not personally known a female who was that interested in matchmaking to help out a guy in a social circle. I can personally think of three cases where a woman tried to hook her gf up with a guy. (But it was a favor to HER not him.) Helping out a guy friend in that area is very uncommon in my experience.

The broader statistics have shown that fewer people are meeting romantic partners from their social circles. Meeting romantic partners from social circles has been declining since the 1990s.

With Millennials and Gen Z having worse social skills than prior generations, this makes sense.

Nevertheless, I know multiple long term couples formed via social circle.

I agree with this. I think there is some hesitation due to the fear of things not working out. This fear is mainly related to things not working out in the short term, like 1-2 dates or maybe a couple of months.

If a social circle formed couple lasts 1-4 years, I think there's less in the way of bad feelings.

Exactly.

I disagree with this. I think women can see if a guy is appealing in general, even if he wouldn't appeal to her specific situation.

To be fair, she’s not blind to his appealing qualities (even if he’s not her type). I’m sure she knows on some level that other chicks might like this guy.

But she may be unmotivated with respect to helping out a guy friend who isn’t her cup of tea dating-wise (even if she thinks he’s a cool guy). It’s just not a priority for her.

I’ve had very good female friends over the years. Funny, loyal, etc. But they are typically not interested in my dating life or lack thereof.* It’s totally fine. I don’t take that personally or expect them to.

*If I had a gf and needed advice, they would be thrilled to help. But not to help me meet someone and start a relationship (or hook up).

 

[Barrister]

I’m late to the fray, but I’ll say 6 dates and no sex is an obvious sign this was going absolutely nowhere.

OP, this is 2025. If by date 3 you aren’t banging it out it’s almost always a sign to call it good and stop wasting your precious time OR a sign you are not escalating well during your dates. This woman isn’t a virgin. To believe she’s a “traditional girl” and hence isn’t interested in sex until she “gets to know someone” is so unbelievably naive I don’t even know what to say to that except you sound very inexperienced with women. Women don’t operate that way. Even “good” girls are not taking 6 dates to become sexual if you are being charming, look good, and properly using kino.

There was a disconnect somewhere here. I’m guessing you probably could have banged her early on by like date 2 or 3, missed your (probably obvious) opportunity, and her interest subsequently plummeted. She kept seeing you anyway, despite that.

 

[Divorced w 3]

When I think about many of the marriages I know about, it seems like more of them should be over by now. There have been fewer divorce filings than I would have expected.

Three key reasons:

Man is making enough money to make it worth it, is providing a lifestyleand the woman doesn’t want to work

Children

Social stigma

I know all those men you’re referring to, from my former life, who seemed tragic beta males, on leashes to their wives who don’t work, complain about how hard they have it, have sex just enough to get the right number of kids and probably no more after. The ones still in marriages make money - the ones not making money are the ones getting thrown out. I’m seeing it myself. Then both the divorcees will lose weight, level up and do after their marriage what they should have done during.

Having been on the filing side, basically being sick of that dynamic, ironically now I make more money then just about all of them, I do whatever I want, and I raise my children the way I think is right. A lot of lessons bestowed on my kids come from examples those people and their children provide, as contrasting ideas to compare against when I teach my kids.

 

[jhonny9546]

Soon after she chose me, my then-gf unilaterally announced that she was cutting contact with these other guys.
I kinda shrugged inside, it didn't bother me whether she saw them or not..
Because they were orbiters.

I understand your point.
You are maintaining your structure, but you are also believing the words of a woman.
And the facts will speak differently (I say this from personal experience, not as a criticism of your case.)

Women do not have orbiters as you define them.
That's why I simply prefer the theory of desdinova.
No one is an orbiter, but he is always a candidate, more or less attractive to her.

it’s never going to happen.

It actually happened to a friend 5 years ago, she is a good woman, they're still togheter.
YMMV.

 

[jhonny9546]

The broader statistics have shown that fewer people are meeting romantic partners from their social circles. Meeting romantic partners from social circles has been declining since the 1990s.
@SW15

Which are the top 3ways they met now?
In Italy: 1) Social circle 2) Workplace 3) OLD and social media

Three key reasons:

Which was your marry and divorce age? Which were the reasons?

 

[SW15]

When I think about many of the marriages I know about, it seems like more of them should be over by now. There have been fewer divorce filings than I would have expected.

Three key reasons:

Man is making enough money to make it worth it, is providing a lifestyleand the woman doesn’t want to work

Children

Social stigma

I want to break down the reasons you cite. This will be written from the perspective of divorcing couples in the USA (my home nation and where I'm most familiar). I think this analysis will be applicable in other developed, Western nations as well.

Reason 1: Lifestyle Factors - I don't think this is a big reason to keep couples together. Most women work now. I only know one couple where the woman doesn't work and doesn't want to work. I know another couple where the woman downgraded her occupation to spend more time as a mother. These are less common examples. With many of these working women, the post-divorce lifestyle wouldn't be drastically different. Women under 45 now often have bachelor's and advanced degrees and white collar jobs that pay well enough to support at least an adequate lifestyle.

If an unhappily married woman decides to leave her husband, it's difficult to predict what her post-divorce dating life will be like. These women are dating as older, less physically appealing women + emotional baggage + baggage of children. There are enough thirsty beta simps out there who will commit to a divorced mom (including some childless older men). However, is the new man going to be superior to the previous husband? Likely not, and it will take some level of effort to get that new man who might not be upgrade.

In my social circle, there are some women who could leave their husbands and be in a decent spot on the financial component of post-divorce life. They don't need their husband solely from a financial standpoint, but being with the husbands helps them afford a house in a somewhat better neighborhood as a dual income unit. In many cases, a woman gets the pre-existing marital house in a divorce with children. That somewhat neutralizes the lifestyle advantage of staying in a marriage.

A divorce settlement can cover the biggest items in lifestyle for a woman. Some of the more smaller/incidental costs might not be covered like clothing, jewelry, vacation, or plastic surgeries. I know one divorced woman (divorced one of my college classmates) who immediately got a post divorce breast lift to impress new men in the mating market.

Reason 2: Children - Children often keep a mediocre to subpar marriage together for a longer period. Ultimately, the presence of children doesn't seem to mean much. Most divorcing couples have children under 18 living at home. It's very rare now that an unhappily married couple will wait until all children are 18 to move on from each other.

Most of the divorces happen when the oldest child is somewhere between kindergarten and 8th grade. This requires divorced parents to co-parent for at least 5 years until the oldest is 18. Additionally, after all children are 18, there are still co-parenting duties that exist. If the child goes to college, they are often needing to be home for the summer for 4 years. Many adult children (either college graduates or non-college graduates) need to live at home due to a lack of income/employment. Even if the 18-29 year old adult child can make enough money to be financially stable, the co-parents still need to deal with each other with birthdays, graduations, major holidays, and possible grandchildren later on. It's annoying. Most divorcing couples with 1-2 children between toddler and elementary school age aren't thinking about possible co-parenting for the next 20+ years.

Reason 3: Social stigma - I perceive almost no social stigma for being divorced. California became the first US state to enact no fault divorce in 1969. Most US states enacted it by 1980. Divorce rates skyrocketed in the 1970s and early 1980s due the no fault divorce structure. Most of the early to mid 1970s divorces were from the Silent Generation (late 1920s-1945 births) as most Baby Boomers were either too young to be married in the 1970s or their marriages were still in the early phases and had yet to decline substantially. The Boomers were having their first divorces typically from the 1980s-early 2000s depending on the years they were born within the Boomer generation.

The major divorce wave of the 1970s-1990s ended any sort of social stigma that would have existed with divorces. Many younger Gen X'ers (1975-1980 births) and earlier Millennials (1981-1989 births) have been getting divorced in more recent years. Many of them had divorced parents from the 1970s-1990s divorce wave.

Having been on the filing side, basically being sick of that dynamics.

You filed for divorce? That's less common. The woman is usually the one who files for divorce. While it is the woman who files for divorce in 70%+ of cases, it's not always her fault. If the woman didn't cheat and her husband did, it is likely that she will be the one to file for divorce. She is likely less to blame for that divorce, though her sexual frigidity was likely a major contributing factor.

 

[jhonny9546]

With many of these working women, the post-divorce lifestyle wouldn't be drastically different.

Not applicable to Italy current situation.
Infact, many single mums, other than government and ex husband benefits, live with parents. They can't afford mortgage/rent.

it will take some level of effort to get that new man who might not be upgrade.

This is not the case, it's actually the opposite: the man work to get the woman (even those single mums).

There are enough thirsty beta simps out there who will commit to a divorced mom

Not only.. there may be some people who actually gained SMV after 30's and their just actually good by being with a single mum, but they're not simps whatsoever.
(My uncle, at the age of 35, got together with a woman who already had 2 daughters, and they stayed together until death. She was respectful of him and he chose her precisely because he could not find women without children who respected him like her.)

Reason 2: Children

"We did it for You" How many times you heard this?
I recently saw a friend of mine having a second baby, who was in a relationship that was breaking up. The baby was the glue that reconnected the parents and their lives and made them change. She is much more respectful, He is much calmer, and the whole family is now enjoying 2 grandchildren. We'll see in the future.



Also, on the social stigma, I notice that you didn't mention how divorces are linked to the fact that friends in the same social circle, or the family of origin, influence to stay together.
In fact, when a woman has friends who get married, in general, she wants to get married.
When others have children, she will want to too.
When her friends divorce, she wants to divorce.
This is where large social circles break up and small groups are created.

Furthermore, (an Italian phenomenon but I don't know about America), some couples are so entangled and entangled with each other, that they have houses in common, finances in common, children, marriage, and even their work in common, such as running a small family business, and this is one of the reasons why they stay together even with so much suffering and incompatibility.

I have to compliment you, you always have great points to reflect on.

 

[SW15]

Furthermore, (an Italian phenomenon but I don't know about America), some couples are so entangled and entangled with each other, that they have houses in common, finances in common, children, marriage, and even their work in common, such as running a small family business, and this is one of the reasons why they stay together even with so much suffering and incompatibility.

This is applicable in the USA.

Nearly all USA married couples are entangled with real estate and finances. There are some childless married couples in the USA, but the majority of USA marriages involve children in common. The work/small family business angle is less common, but it happens enough.

the man work to get the woman (even those single mums).

In most cases, the man does make more effort to get the woman. You have a valid effort. Women do put forth some effort in interactions. Single moms will need to put in more effort to get men than childless women. Childless women are more desirable to most men.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Hi everyone,

had already 6 dates with this 31 year old girl but no sex yet

Like I said I am not interested in a relationship with her but would like to have her as a plate.

I love how so many men here insists on calling a girl a "plate" when the girl has room temp interest at best. The second you ask advice about a girl you're seeing, you don't get to call her a plate anymore.

Let's be real, calling a girl a plate is pure cope.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I love how so many men here insists on calling a girl a "plate" when the girl has room temp interest at best. The second you ask advice about a girl you're seeing, you don't get to call her a plate anymore.

Let's be real, calling a girl a plate is pure cope.

People need to start calling “plates” women they haven’t had sex with.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

People need to start calling “plates” women they haven’t had sex with.

That's actually the exact opposite definition of what it's supposed to be

 

[Mazer]

Six dates and no sex? You made the mistake of talking about hot topics with a girl you didn’t even have sex with. You could have just agreed (lied) and said, how wonderful it was, she had good friends, they are hard to come by these days. She would have been in your bed probably that night.

 

[BaronOfHair]

If an unhappily married woman decides to leave her husband, it's difficult to predict what her post-divorce dating life will be like

And, as men, such things are more inconsequential to us than whether or not The Archdiocese of Dublin had a bowel movement this past Sunday is to street vendors in Ramallah, who are desperately trying to avoid being carpet bombed into oblivion by IDF drones

 

[Gamisch]

OP is the same guy who took a woman on 6 dates, hoping to have sex but doing "Nice guy game" instead of being more direct which is high risk/high reward.
OP doesn't know how to sexually escalate, much less vet or screen for the type of women he wants
He puts up with attractive women who dictate the frame, and also wastes his time and resources and it's his fault. If you want to clap checks be hoenst in 2025 there are women who will hook up on the first meet etc. OP rather go about it the long way circa 1995 style.
The fact that OP was even able to get 6 dates with 1 woman is amazing to me most likely the woman had another dude in the tuck who was blowing her back out

Regardless OP's game/mindsety/approach is his problem not women

We dudes are way more delulu than women will ever be. The older I get the more I see it.

A woman knows within 10 seconds if she will let you hit. If she does, her vibe will tell..if she does not however..then it's simply " the other side" of things; she does NOT like you like that,period.

Look, the problem OP probably has is VOLUME. Give a starving man spoiled soup and he will eat it like its a 5 star menu. OP lacks the ..experience/ slash volume/slash attitude ect to recognise the truth for what it is.

However. This thread is HIGHLY important for all men to remember. If she doesn't want you after 1 date, forget about her.

 

[Solomon]

We dudes are way more delulu than women will ever be. The older I get the more I see it.

A woman knows within 10 seconds if she will let you hit. If she does, her vibe will tell..if she does not however..then it's simply " the other side" of things; she does NOT like you like that,period.

Look, the problem OP probably has is VOLUME. Give a starving man spoiled soup and he will eat it like its a 5 star menu. OP lacks the ..experience/ slash volume/slash attitude ect to recognise the truth for what it is.

However. This thread is HIGHLY important for all men to remember. If she doesn't want you after 1 date, forget about her.

OPs problem is deeper than that, anyone can talk themselves into and OUT OF coochie, I have done it plenty of times in my life. OP's problem is he is approaching the game totally wrong trying to be nice and but the women can read him a mile away for the sucker that he truly is.

A lot of guys operate under the "Nice guy" game I used to do it, shyt doesn't work, the older I get the more Mode 1 I get cause It cuts through the b.s.

 

[itouchyou]

Hi everyone,

had already 6 dates with this 31 year old girl but no sex yet. She is an attractive, old fashioned kind of girl who wants to take it slow. Invited her to my place but she said that she isn't ready for that. The dates were really good, a lot of laughing, touching, light kissing. We always had good and interesting conversations and the connection was great.

Everything seemed to go well until the topic of friends of the opposite sex came up on the last date. She has some male friends, one of them is her best male friend and they know each other for 11 years. I told her, that I dont't want my future girlfriend to talk to any male friends because that always leads to problems in the relationship. Told her, if a woman wants to be with me, she has to drop these kind of friendships. Told her, that most of the time the "male friend" wants more and is just waiting for an opportunity. She told me that she is not attracted to her best male friend and that he never made a move. She can't understand my point of view, told me that it is about trust and that her male friend is like a brother to her. I told her I believe her but it is about respect, not about trust. She told me that i seem like a jelous, possesive man who isn't sure of himself. I told her she is wrong, it is just about respect and healthy boundaries.

At the end of the date she seemed a bit cold and distant. When I text her, it is the same. She is still responding but has lost interest I think. I know I should't have come up with this topic before sex happened but I did. Maybe you will tell me to leave her alone if she isn't the kind of woman I like but I would love to have her as a plate. Is it possible to keep her and if yes, how do I act from now on? Should I tell her that I thought about it and understood that my boundaries are exaggerated? Should I tell her that she was right and that I won't tell her to end her friendship? Should I say what she wants to hear just to keep her? Or should I say nothing about it and just suggest a new meetup? Like I said I am not interested in a relationship with her but would like to have her as a plate.

What do you think?

Regards
summersky

The mistake is that you revealed how interested you were by enforcing boundaries; this reveals that you were seeking commitment before sex, which means you offered your most valuable playing card before she offered hers (sex). That reveals that she is more valuable than you. If you had gotten sex first, she would feel responsible for making sure she respects your boundaries because she doesn't want to leave that situation without commitment, and also because you getting sex first without commitment reveals that you are above her.

My 2c

 

[Clockwerk50]

OP still getting clowned from something that happened 3 months ago lol